Do the Knicks have enough to make it out of the second round?

gmf1369

Benchwarmer
The Knicks' loss to Indiana in the playoffs hurt for many reasons... With Boston down, Brooklyn struggling to gel and Chicago missing 2011 MVP Derrick Rose, New York's chance to take on the Heat in the Eastern Conference Finals was last season... Thanks to their own inefficiency, key players being banged up from the long regular-season grind and a roster full of one-dimensional players, they couldn't capitalize...



With Rose's return to Chicago, Brooklyn stacking up and Indiana's young roster likely to take another step forward, the Knicks may be on the outside looking in when it comes to the top four seeds in the Eastern Conference...

New York will need a lot to go right this season if they hope to make it out of the second round, or even the first...



Iman Shumpert needs to become the two-way player the Knicks desperately need... Anthony needs to play at a higher level than last season, as does Bargnani... Ron Artest needs to energize the Knicks with toughness and perimeter defense while being a model citizen... Felton and Prigioni will need to find ways to put New York's scorers in positions to succeed...



Most of all, the Knicks need to stay healthy... Smith and Stat have knee issues, while Melo and Tyson were banged up by the end of last season... New York will have one of the NBA's oldest rosters again and if they want to make a serious run, they will need to keep everybody on the court...



We all know that this team has potential, but what might be needed we may fall short...

Thoughts???
 

DrB

Benchwarmer
The Knicks' loss to Indiana in the playoffs hurt for many reasons... With Boston down, Brooklyn struggling to gel and Chicago missing 2011 MVP Derrick Rose, New York's chance to take on the Heat in the Eastern Conference Finals was last season... Thanks to their own inefficiency, key players being banged up from the long regular-season grind and a roster full of one-dimensional players, they couldn't capitalize...



With Rose's return to Chicago, Brooklyn stacking up and Indiana's young roster likely to take another step forward, the Knicks may be on the outside looking in when it comes to the top four seeds in the Eastern Conference...

New York will need a lot to go right this season if they hope to make it out of the second round, or even the first...



Iman Shumpert needs to become the two-way player the Knicks desperately need... Anthony needs to play at a higher level than last season, as does Bargnani... Ron Artest needs to energize the Knicks with toughness and perimeter defense while being a model citizen... Felton and Prigioni will need to find ways to put New York's scorers in positions to succeed...



Most of all, the Knicks need to stay healthy... Smith and Stat have knee issues, while Melo and Tyson were banged up by the end of last season... New York will have one of the NBA's oldest rosters again and if they want to make a serious run, they will need to keep everybody on the court...



We all know that this team has potential, but what might be needed we may fall short...

Thoughts???
There are so many conditioned "to hope for the best here" that your valid appraisel will not get any validation but mine.
Clearly the additions of BARGNANI and Ron MWP Artest doesn't change the fact that we are a 5th seed team. The Heat, Indiana, Chicago and the new NETS are all better on paper...BUT we don't know that our roster is complete just yet. Patience grasshopper. The age of the Knicks is not the biggest issue , its KNEES. Stat and now J.R. have knee issues. The Knicks knew about J.R. prior to his signing so maybe he's insured for his contract...but how can STAT make it through an entire season when he has not been able to for the last 2-3 years. Should health not be the issue as it was last year the Knicks are now a better team as Camby , White, Novak, Richardson, Sheed, Thomas, and Kidd are replaced with MWP , Bargnani, Hardaway Jr. and starting the season with K Mart. The opportunity to add 3 more players for Veteran minimums won't greatly alter what we have currently under contract. We have added Beno, and Tyler so I remain at the roster is filled and will look this way barring a mega trade. So hopefully we make the playoffs and see where it goes from there.
 
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petescud

Starter
The way things look at the moment, i don't think we'll get past the 2nd round - Pacers and Heat will definitely take us...I think the Pacers are putting together a team to beat the Heat this year...kudos to Larry Bird and their team for playing the right cards
 

21 Shump Street

Benchwarmer
Yeah no way in hell we beat the Pacers, I mean Melo had a dislocated shoulder and JR had serious knee issues, Tyson was also injured, but really what does that even matter?

We only added MWP, Bargnani and got younger, more athletic and better. Pacers added Scola and Copeland, who are both elite defenders and are real difference makers. Add that to Granger coming back who fits seamlessly with Paul George and there is no stopping them.

Really OP? So much face palm in your post. Knicks beat Indy in 5 or 6 if fully healthy last season.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
Yeah no way in hell we beat the Pacers, I mean Melo had a dislocated shoulder and JR had serious knee issues, Tyson was also injured, but really what does that even matter?

We only added MWP, Bargnani and got younger, more athletic and better. Pacers added Scola and Copeland, who are both elite defenders and are real difference makers. Add that to Granger coming back who fits seamlessly with Paul George and there is no stopping them.

Really OP? So much face palm in your post. Knicks beat Indy in 5 or 6 if fully healthy last season.

But seeing as how Tyson hasn't come close to playing a full 82 game season, since he played 79 out of 82, 6 years ago...I seriously doubt he's not "injured" in the post season this year too. When you're averaging 23 missed games, per year (not counting the lockout shortened season) over the last 4 seasons...doesn't sound like he's just "injured" but he can't hold up. He's breaking down.

If our #1 rebounding option is literally breaking down in front of our very eyes, how are we beating a team with Hibbert, West, and Scola? They came outta the womb boxing out, trying to get the rebound.

Gotta love the eternal optimism tho. Sometimes I feel like Knicks fans would be like "nah, it's cool...everything is gonna be alright" while the bus is literally hurtling off the side of a cliff.
 

tiger0330

Legend
Yeah no way in hell we beat the Pacers, I mean Melo had a dislocated shoulder and JR had serious knee issues, Tyson was also injured, but really what does that even matter?

We only added MWP, Bargnani and got younger, more athletic and better. Pacers added Scola and Copeland, who are both elite defenders and are real difference makers. Add that to Granger coming back who fits seamlessly with Paul George and there is no stopping them.

Really OP? So much face palm in your post. Knicks beat Indy in 5 or 6 if fully healthy last season.
Huh, Copeland and Scola are not elite defenders. The Pacers definitely will be better with Scola and Granger this year and the Nets will be also despite all the doubts about that aged roster. Cleveland may also be a force if Bynum can come back.

Still don't see the reason to put Stat on minutes restriction if his knees are 100%, let him play 30 minutes and if he injures himself so be it. This Knicks were constructed to be a contending team with Stat being a FT player not a part time one, let him play.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
Huh, Copeland and Scola are not elite defenders. The Pacers definitely will be better with Scola and Granger this year and the Nets will be also despite all the doubts about that aged roster. Cleveland may also be a force if Bynum can come back.

Still don't see the reason to put Stat on minutes restriction if his knees are 100%, let him play 30 minutes and if he injures himself so be it. This Knicks were constructed to be a contending team with Stat being a FT player not a part time one, let him play.

#1) he was being sarcastic about Copeland and Scola.

#2)That's the thing...his (STAT's) knees aren't good enough to let him play 30+ mins a game. When you see a company or organization say one thing, but do another, they only said what they said as a bit of spin-control, damage-control, and crowd control.

In the summer of 2010, Amar'e went to at least 3 teams looking for a 5-year deal, and was turned down by all of them because "his knees wouldn't hold up." If I remember correctly, the Suns were offering 3-year guaranteed, with a team option on the 4th year, so if the knees went, so did Stoudemire.

The Knicks, after being turned down by LBJ, were on the rebound...big time, and the only team even remotely interested in STAT's knees for more than 3 years guaranteed. So he took the money and security. When they went to insure his contract (like the majority of sports contracts are) it was turned down by every insurance company who they looked to get a policy from. See...insurance companies want to take your money, and not have to pay out. But with STAT, it wasn't a matter of If they had to pay out on the policy, but WHEN.

So yea...we amnestied Billups a year early to get Tyson, who has never played all 82 games, but hasn't come close since 07-08, and we're now stuck with Amar'e.

When the organization tells you "oh, he's healthy enough to return to all-star form....but he's only gonna play 20 mins per game" let their actions speak louder than their words.
 

knicksince 93

Rotation player
#1) he was being sarcastic about Copeland and Scola.

#2)That's the thing...his (STAT's) knees aren't good enough to let him play 30+ mins a game. When you see a company or organization say one thing, but do another, they only said what they said as a bit of spin-control, damage-control, and crowd control.

In the summer of 2010, Amar'e went to at least 3 teams looking for a 5-year deal, and was turned down by all of them because "his knees wouldn't hold up." If I remember correctly, the Suns were offering 3-year guaranteed, with a team option on the 4th year, so if the knees went, so did Stoudemire.

The Knicks, after being turned down by LBJ, were on the rebound...big time, and the only team even remotely interested in STAT's knees for more than 3 years guaranteed. So he took the money and security. When they went to insure his contract (like the majority of sports contracts are) it was turned down by every insurance company who they looked to get a policy from. See...insurance companies want to take your money, and not have to pay out. But with STAT, it wasn't a matter of If they had to pay out on the policy, but WHEN.

So yea...we amnestied Billups a year early to get Tyson, who has never played all 82 games, but hasn't come close since 07-08, and we're now stuck with Amar'e.

When the organization tells you "oh, he's healthy enough to return to all-star form....but he's only gonna play 20 mins per game" let their actions speak louder than their words.

Stat and mwp off the bench is more lethal then cope and granger easily. Stat at 20 minutes all injury prone is waaaay better then anything cope could. Granger won't be granger cuz he's damaged goods too.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
Stat and mwp off the bench is more lethal then cope and granger easily. Stat at 20 minutes all injury prone is waaaay better then anything cope could. Granger won't be granger cuz he's damaged goods too.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

I wouldn't say they're more lethal than Granger and Scola off the bench. Scola is yet another low-post efficient, rebounder, for them. Huge upgrade over Psycho-T. And Granger for 20 mins, with one iffy-knee, is more effective for his team than STAT with 2. Especially when they're core is intact, and anything Granger gives them is icing on the cake.

STAT can't be the 4th highest cap hit in the NBA this year, but only play 20 mins per game for a team with aspirations of contention.
 

knicksince 93

Rotation player
I wouldn't say they're more lethal than Granger and Scola off the bench. Scola is yet another low-post efficient, rebounder, for them. Huge upgrade over Psycho-T. And Granger for 20 mins, with one iffy-knee, is more effective for his team than STAT with 2. Especially when they're core is intact, and anything Granger gives them is icing on the cake.

STAT can't be the 4th highest cap hit in the NBA this year, but only play 20 mins per game for a team with aspirations of contention.

Good counter. However I still like us over them.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2
 

metrocard

Legend
Ask yourself who's our best shot blocker and best passer on the team.

Once you name those guys, ranked them amongst the rest of the best in the NBA.

Theres your answer.
 

petescud

Starter
Honestly, i don't think Cope gets much minutes in Indy cause of his D unless they need a scoring punch now and then. You'll get good doses of Scola, Grainger and CJ Watson though..Truly, i hope i'm wrong about them taking us...I like our guys optomism though
 

bigapple

Starter
some ppl on this board have some metnal problems or just desperations. Knicks lost game 1 which was very crucial. Same with Heat Pacers

if Knicks would win game 1 series could b very diffrent same with Heat Pacers without game winner by your Letraveller Pacers should have 2-0 goin to Indy.


Dont forget 1 thing

NBA allways wants Heat Lebron in finals $tern will allway rig some games
 

petescud

Starter
Last year the NBA they did everything they could to keep us out of the finals...it worked. Hoping they don't pull the same **** this year

Remember LBJ's 9 steps to the basket no call
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
some ppl on this board have some metnal problems or just desperations. Knicks lost game 1 which was very crucial. Same with Heat Pacers

if Knicks would win game 1 series could b very diffrent same with Heat Pacers without game winner by your Letraveller Pacers should have 2-0 goin to Indy.


Dont forget 1 thing

NBA allways wants Heat Lebron in finals $tern will allway rig some games

In a 6 game series, they out rebounded the Knicks 272 total rebounds to 220. Out rebounded us by 52 rebounds in 6 games, 8.6 extra possessions for them on a per game basis.

Not sure what winning game one does for that..but ok...I guess. This is why the Knicks can put pretty much whoever they want on the court, and because MSG is always going to be packed, they get away with it.

Whereas a smaller market, like Indy for example, was able to make the organization feel some pressure after that brawl @ The Palace vs the Pistons. The Pacers lost a lot of fan support, and it showed up in ticket sales.

We don't have that luxury here. You have no idea how many times I've had a convo in MSG with some folks who were from outta town and just there to see a game as a part of their vacay. NYC is a destination for vacation, so Knicks games can become an even for tourists as well as a game for the die-hard season tix holder.

This team is being mismanaged (as usual) in a variety of ways. Amnesty a player in the last year of his deal, ignoring the fact that all of the data points to you needing that amnesty for one of the highest paid players in the NBA...when you amnesty the contract entering it's last year, you get a player who in his previous 3 seasons played 74, 51, and 45 games, out of 82. But you give him a max deal cause he was just on a team that won a ring.

Then this season, you trade your only moveable first round pick that you have in the next 5 years, for a player who was literally going to be cut by his team. No reason to give up that pick, other than being straight fleeced.

But the fans act like it's ok...no worries...we'll be fine....this team is good. And in MSG, there isn't anything but cheers, the loudest ones coming from the people who only know one or two players.

There's absolutely no pressure on the organization from the fan base. We have to rely on the media, and all they're trying to do is sell papers and ad-space.

At this rate, when Melo opts out to either re-up with us for 4 more years, or a 5 year max deal elsewhere...it's gonna be up to the team to convince him to stay. And seeing as how Howard set the precedent for leaving real money on the table to go to a "better situation"... REALISTICALLY speaking, there could be some trouble on the horizon.
 

bigapple

Starter
U r talkin bout outrebounding so look @ heat they were outrebounded too thats why they signed Birdman

with birdman [reserve and 4.1 rebs] they scored historical run lot ppl was talkin bout this run that was with under 0.500 teams + they allways starting game which was on minus with score and then it was mostly chase for tie and then game winning in last secs.

Heat arent best in Rebs Indy and Memphis are better but Memphis were sweept.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
U r talkin bout outrebounding so look @ heat they were outrebounded too thats why they signed Birdman

with birdman [reserve and 4.1 rebs] they scored historical run lot ppl was talkin bout this run that was with under 0.500 teams + they allways starting game which was on minus with score and then it was mostly chase for tie and then game winning in last secs.

Heat arent best in Rebs Indy and Memphis are better but Memphis were sweept.

All of that is fine and good, but the Knicks inability to get rebounds DIRECTLY led to their getting eliminated.

I don't look at the game in a vacuum, what another teams does or doesn't do well, and how that impacts their success is irrelevant unless they're built exactly the same way the Knicks are. Memphis is a better rebounding team, but when the other team is operating with such efficiency that you don't get as many rebounding opportunities, coupled with the fact that your best scorer can't get his own shot...you're not getting past a team like the Spurs.

Miami has the ultimate guy who can get his own shot, and the way the team is built (with another player who can get his, on a good night. A stretch 4 to pull bigs outta the paint, and shooters) it fits perfectly for someone with the talents of a LBJ.

So if Memphis still had Rudy, they have a shot to beat the Spurs, because of his ability to get his from the perimeter where the Spurs D is slightly more vulnerable as opposed to inside; and the Heat have LBJ and the proper components around him.

The Knicks didn't address their highest paid big needing help on the block, they got Melo no inside offensive presence to help prevent teams from loading his side of the court when he has the ball, taking away driving angles and forcing him baseline and into help at the rim (Hibbert's block on him in the playoffs is a perfect example of this).

But I'm being told about how the Heat went on a winning streak because of Birdman, and Memphis is a better rebounding team....this is precisely what I'm taking about. This is why the Knicks brass get away with putting whatever they want on the court. Tickets sales aren't going to fall, and fans celebrate every move they make, seemingly incapable of separating the great moves, from the good, and being oblivious to ones that make very little basketball sense.

Little bit ridiculous.
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
The Knicks tanked a few years, let Lee walk, dumped Zach Randolph and traded picks away for expiring contracts as well as Wilson Chandler and Gallinari to turn around and build the same team they had under Isiah, just with a different cast of players. I'll concede that Melo is a notch above any of the players during the Isiah regime but the tendency to load up on 1 dimensional players is pathological with this franchise! Yes they have a promising defender in Shumpert, who's the best defender on the Knicks but in the past they have had rosters that included a good to great defender; Doug Christie and Trevor Ariza is what comes to mind. Felton/Marbury... Smith/Crawford... STAT/Randolph... Yes STAT is more athletic than Randolph but they both are isolationist scorers, don't pass and don't defend! Hell, at least Randolph would give you 10 plus rebounds a night! This team is built for the regular season... PERIOD! It's built to be exciting enough to put butts in the seats and raise ticket prices. Chandler is on the south side of his career and I doubt Amare makes it past the middle of the season. In fact, I'll wager anything that Melo doesn't pick up his option and walks after this season! Knicks either fail to make the playoffs or are bumped in the first.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
In a 6 game series, they out rebounded the Knicks 272 total rebounds to 220. Out rebounded us by 52 rebounds in 6 games, 8.6 extra possessions for them on a per game basis.

Not sure what winning game one does for that..but ok...I guess. This is why the Knicks can put pretty much whoever they want on the court, and because MSG is always going to be packed, they get away with it.

Whereas a smaller market, like Indy for example, was able to make the organization feel some pressure after that brawl @ The Palace vs the Pistons. The Pacers lost a lot of fan support, and it showed up in ticket sales.

We don't have that luxury here. You have no idea how many times I've had a convo in MSG with some folks who were from outta town and just there to see a game as a part of their vacay. NYC is a destination for vacation, so Knicks games can become an even for tourists as well as a game for the die-hard season tix holder.

This team is being mismanaged (as usual) in a variety of ways. Amnesty a player in the last year of his deal, ignoring the fact that all of the data points to you needing that amnesty for one of the highest paid players in the NBA...when you amnesty the contract entering it's last year, you get a player who in his previous 3 seasons played 74, 51, and 45 games, out of 82. But you give him a max deal cause he was just on a team that won a ring.

Then this season, you trade your only moveable first round pick that you have in the next 5 years, for a player who was literally going to be cut by his team. No reason to give up that pick, other than being straight fleeced.

But the fans act like it's ok...no worries...we'll be fine....this team is good. And in MSG, there isn't anything but cheers, the loudest ones coming from the people who only know one or two players.

There's absolutely no pressure on the organization from the fan base. We have to rely on the media, and all they're trying to do is sell papers and ad-space.

At this rate, when Melo opts out to either re-up with us for 4 more years, or a 5 year max deal elsewhere...it's gonna be up to the team to convince him to stay. And seeing as how Howard set the precedent for leaving real money on the table to go to a "better situation"... REALISTICALLY speaking, there could be some trouble on the horizon.


:agreed:
I have to agree with u on the Knicks poor-poor mismanagement for 14 years, and the huge load of tourist still filling all the seats in the Knicks n Rangers games each season, plus the Big-Apple media getting all their propaganda imformation about the Knicks/Rangers from James Dolan News 12, and Newsday paper.

The Knicks had the chance in 2012-13 to go to the ECF with no problem, but HC Woody gave the reigns of the offense to two Halfcourt-set players (Melo & JR) who walk the ball up court on offense for 48 minutes per game for 82 games, only developing a ISO-offense n a 3-ball shooting team.
HC Woody denied Amare & Camby playingtime throughout the regular-season n postseason for some reason of his own, plus Woody would never put any winning veteran PF (Rasheed, K.Thomas, K-Mart) in a line-up with C-Tyson Chandler throughout the season.

The Knicks played 12 postseason games, and only 6 Knicks players played in all 12 games.
RED FLAG on HC Woody!
Take a good look at our bigman rotation for the 2012-13 postseason games ....
C-Tyson Chandler avg 29 min in all 12 games.
PF-Kenyon Martin avg 21 min in all 12 games.
6.9 Copeland avg 10 min in just 9 games.
6.10 Novak avg 5 min in just 9 games.
F/C-Amare avg 8 min in just 4 games.
F/C-Camby avg 1 min in just 3 games .. Camby was healthy to play 16 min per since December.
Camby & Amare became healthy to play the same week in December, yet HC Woody refuse to put the two bigmen in the same lineup .. Camby never became Tyson backup, and Amare never became Melo backup. WHY?

Im still trying to figure-out why Meta World Peace sign with the Knicks?
The Knicks are a 6 or 7th seed team in 2013-14 with Melo & JR having the Green-Light.
1) Brooklyn Nets
2) Heats
3) Pacers
4) Pistons (Josh & Jennings)
5) Bulls (Noah/Booz/Deng/and 2011 MVP)
6) ???
7) ???
8) ???


Thats being a real optimistic Knicks fan...
 
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