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Toons
Mar 02, 2011, 09:14
Comments and thoughts on the topic.

Boggles the mind how some fans think....

We just played a good game against the magic, and lost some steam down the stretch. We had to give all of our energy to make up for our lack of size and didnt get blown out. Yes we could have won, but we gave it our all and were competitive down to the end. Melo wont struggle every game, and being a melo fan, i feel a 40 pt game coming up next....thats what melo does.

Clyde & The Pearl
Mar 02, 2011, 09:52
Comments and thoughts on the topic.

Boggles the mind how some fans think....

We just played a good game against the magic, and lost some steam down the stretch. We had to give all of our energy to make up for our lack of size and didnt get blown out. Yes we could have won, but we gave it our all and were competitive down to the end. Melo wont struggle every game, and being a melo fan, i feel a 40 pt game coming up next....thats what melo does.

WELL, IMHO the end of the game could have been played much differently. There were so many fouls called and foul shots taken, playing an offensive/defensive rotation COULD HAVE POSSIBLY gotten us the win. Taking out Billups and Williams and replacing them with TD and Turiaf when we were shooting foul shots may have gotten us over the hump. But hey who knows....

Sprewell-Houston
Mar 02, 2011, 09:54
Gotcha Toons!

I jumped on that bandwagon mysef in the past.

Not this time though. I'm past the point where I blame D'Ant for losing. Melo and STAT gotta be hungry enough to sacrifice themselves on defense and we're easily a 50+ win team....maybe 60.

Coache's philosophy or not it's the players who want that ring and all the fame so they gotta show some effort on D by themselves. It's not enough to do it when you're playing Miami or Chicago you gotta do it all the time!

STAT played horrible D in Orlando, Melo had a poor shooting night. Not D'Antoni's fault. He played the same players he played in Miami - where they all showed great effort - this time they went back to the old scheme of purely relying on their offense.

I don't know why people keep saying our players don't pla D because D'Ant doesn't get in thir face.
I mean it's not like we're talking about some High School players. STAT and Melo are grown men and pretty smart too they sould know by themselves that defense is the key for us.

It's tough to watch 6-10 STAT giving up an offensive rebound and layup to 6-6 Quentin '****in' Richardson just standing there and watching. I mean 2 rebounds for a 6-10 All Star? Are you serious Amar'e?
2 ****ing rebounds guys....

mafra
Mar 02, 2011, 10:07
Sorry bro... D'antoni contributed to this loss. IT'S UNDENIABLE.

ORL exploded for 37 4th quarter points. Nelson had 3 points at the half.

Landry Fields entered the game with 10:30 to play in the 4th. A minute later Douglas comes out, and then a minute later Carter is removed. At the same time, Nelson comes back in the game. 8:22 to play. Knicks down by a few points. Billups guarding Nelson.

NBA NTWK announcers were saying how... in DET... coach knew better, and would play Stuckey on Nelson. He was too quick for Billups. Nelson just dominates the next 4:30 minutes and ORL pulls away. Nelson goes out and then comes back in. He drains a 3. Game over.

Coach has got to be aware of this potential matchup BEFORE the game, and should be looking for it... especially come the 4th. As soon as Nelson starts heating up... YANK FIELDS and throw Douglas to D-up Nelson.

For TEN minutes... Landry Fields was basically a waste of space out there. A shooting guard with little offense. Landry played 35 minutes and had 1 assist and 6 poitns (1-5 from downtown). SG is the one position you can't afford to give away offense. HENCE THE NAME SHOOTING GUARD.

If you want rebounds, then find a real center.

Not to rag on Fields. Dude was a steal. He hits big shots (normally), and has high basketball IQ. Will pass, rebound, do the little things. BUT please... let's be real here. Dude should not be handed 35-40 minutes every game regardless.

ALSO, I'm tired of watching Chandler, and now Shawne, guard centers. Let's hope this ends now that Jeffries is back.

SO... it was coach who stuck with Fields the entire 4th. Coach sat and watched Nelson take over the game w/out adjusting. Did it cost us the game? Who knows. But we did lose, and those were HIS choices. He must be responsible.

WE KNOW THE DEAL... Dantoni feels like good offense beats good defense. If we shoot the ball, then nothing else matters. This is why Douglas will enter the game ICE COLD and immediately chuck a 3 pointer with 2 minutes left, down 6... B/C this is what the coach preaches.

Clyde & The Pearl
Mar 02, 2011, 10:08
Gotcha Toons!

I jumped on that bandwagon mysef in the past.

Not this time though. I'm past the point where I blame D'Ant for losing. Melo and STAT gotta be hungry enough to sacrifice themselves on defense and we're easily a 50+ win team....maybe 60.

Coache's philosophy or not it's the players who want that ring and all the fame so they gotta show some effort on D by themselves. It's not enough to do it when you're playing Miami or Chicago you gotta do it all the time!

STAT played horrible D in Orlando, Melo had a poor shooting night. Not D'Antoni's fault. He played the same players he played in Miami - where they all showed great effort - this time they went back to the old scheme of purely relying on their offense.

I don't know why people keep saying our players don't pla D because D'Ant doesn't get in thir face.
I mean it's not like we're talking about some High School players. STAT and Melo are grown men and pretty smart too they sould know by themselves that defense is the key for us.

It's tough to watch 6-10 STAT giving up an offensive rebound and layup to 6-6 Quentin '****in' Richardson just standing there and watching. I mean 2 rebounds for a 6-10 All Star? Are you serious Amar'e?
2 ****ing rebounds guys....

Defensive matchups were the key to this loss. Nothing the players can do about that. Billips couldnt control Nelson and obviously Williams shouldnt be anywhere near Dwight.

mafra
Mar 02, 2011, 10:12
"We played hard and we got to the point where we drew the line and we said we're not going to let this one slip away," said Magic reserve Quentin Richardson (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/703/quentin-richardson), who had 10 points. "We knew this was a big game we needed to win."


And it was... We played them 3 times. Had we taken all 3, there was a chance we could have moved up and dropped ORL in the seeding. All that was lost last night. Oh well.

moneyg
Mar 02, 2011, 10:22
Comments and thoughts on the topic.

Boggles the mind how some fans think....

We just played a good game against the magic, and lost some steam down the stretch. We had to give all of our energy to make up for our lack of size and didnt get blown out. Yes we could have won, but we gave it our all and were competitive down to the end. Melo wont struggle every game, and being a melo fan, i feel a 40 pt game coming up next....thats what melo does.



IMO....Q rich's defense on melo won the game.. get it defense....our non defense on jameer..lost us the game.. get it defense...

Jameer said it himself...

parphrase...."I knew they were going under the pick.. so i knew if I cam off the screen harder..the wouldnt be able to contain me"...JN

106pts is enought offense to win a game.. if you play defense...get it defense....

defense leads to offense..


our coach has to find a balance between O and D...

TR1LL10N
Mar 02, 2011, 10:36
IMO....Q rich's defense on melo won the game.. get it defense....our non defense on jameer..lost us the game.. get it defense...

Jameer said it himself...

parphrase...."I knew they were going under the pick.. so i knew if I cam off the screen harder..the wouldnt be able to contain me"...JN

106pts is enought offense to win a game.. if you play defense...get it defense....

defense leads to offense..


our coach has to find a balance between O and D...

No one including Toons was suggesting defense isn't important...get it?

He is merely pointing out that many on this board assert that when we win it's because of the players and when we lose it's because of the coach...get it?

Clyde & The Pearl
Mar 02, 2011, 10:49
No one including Toons was suggesting defense isn't important...get it?

He is merely pointing out that many on this board assert that when we win it's because of the players and when we lose it's because of the coach...get it?

What are you Toons mouthpiece? Can the man speak for himself? IMHO, MDA did nothing to try to WIN this game. A personal change here or there on DEFENSE would have possibly got us the W.

Oh. Its funny how you understand EXACTLY what Toons is saying, but when you're presented with a quote from MDA it seems incomprehensible to you. Get it?

mafra
Mar 02, 2011, 10:51
No one including Toons was suggesting defense isn't important...get it?

He is merely pointing out that many on this board assert that when we win it's because of the players and when we lose it's because of the coach...get it?

It's not just people on this board... It's practically everyone involved in the NBA... All I ever hear is people talking about MD as a quality Xs-&-Os offensive coach, but that his system isn't suited for the NBA. That you can't win with his style.

DET showed that SUPURB defenisve teams, who lack off. skill, have chance to win NBA title. I can't recall one team to win a title with the imverse philosophy.

MD is a tick above .500 in his career. Well below it here in NY. DEN has 4 of our players. 3 of which play significant minutes. HOw come Karl gets his guys to hold teams under 110 points?

moneyg
Mar 02, 2011, 10:52
No one including Toons was suggesting defense isn't important...get it?

He is merely pointing out that many on this board assert that when we win it's because of the players and when we lose it's because of the coach...get it?


O'antoni has to find a balance.. which he has not yet....so its his fault.. mostly... he is subbin in and subbin out????.. right???

Sprewell-Houston
Mar 02, 2011, 11:06
Sorry bro... D'antoni contributed to this loss. IT'S UNDENIABLE.

ORL exploded for 37 4th quarter points. Nelson had 3 points at the half.

Landry Fields entered the game with 10:30 to play in the 4th. A minute later Douglas comes out, and then a minute later Carter is removed. At the same time, Nelson comes back in the game. 8:22 to play. Knicks down by a few points. Billups guarding Nelson.

NBA NTWK announcers were saying how... in DET... coach knew better, and would play Stuckey on Nelson. He was too quick for Billups. Nelson just dominates the next 4:30 minutes and ORL pulls away. Nelson goes out and then comes back in. He drains a 3. Game over.

Coach has got to be aware of this potential matchup BEFORE the game, and should be looking for it... especially come the 4th. As soon as Nelson starts heating up... YANK FIELDS and throw Douglas to D-up Nelson.

For TEN minutes... Landry Fields was basically a waste of space out there. A shooting guard with little offense. Landry played 35 minutes and had 1 assist and 6 poitns (1-5 from downtown). SG is the one position you can't afford to give away offense. HENCE THE NAME SHOOTING GUARD.

If you want rebounds, then find a real center.

Not to rag on Fields. Dude was a steal. He hits big shots (normally), and has high basketball IQ. Will pass, rebound, do the little things. BUT please... let's be real here. Dude should not be handed 35-40 minutes every game regardless.

ALSO, I'm tired of watching Chandler, and now Shawne, guard centers. Let's hope this ends now that Jeffries is back.

SO... it was coach who stuck with Fields the entire 4th. Coach sat and watched Nelson take over the game w/out adjusting. Did it cost us the game? Who knows. But we did lose, and those were HIS choices. He must be responsible.

WE KNOW THE DEAL... Dantoni feels like good offense beats good defense. If we shoot the ball, then nothing else matters. This is why Douglas will enter the game ICE COLD and immediately chuck a 3 pointer with 2 minutes left, down 6... B/C this is what the coach preaches.

I'm all for a new coach! I want to see D'Ant go as badly as anyone!

Fact is though: We won't get a new coach!

We gotta win despite our coach - he is what he is. So the players have 2 options:

A - Continue to use D'Ants offensive gameplan as an excuse and finish the season 41-41

or

B - Get themselves together, start hustlin' and play defense despite D'Antoni beeing the coach.

Matchups and rotations are one thing and you are right about it, but when our 6'10 PF slash C gets 2 rebounds a night and allows a 6'6 completely unathletic SG offensive rebounds and lay ins while standing next to him - it's hardly the coache's fault. It's just an excuse.

TR1LL10N
Mar 02, 2011, 11:10
What are you Toons mouthpiece? Can the man speak for himself? IMHO, MDA did nothing to try to WIN this game. A personal change here or there on DEFENSE would have possibly got us the W.

Oh. Its funny how you understand EXACTLY what Toons is saying, but when you're presented with a quote from MDA it seems incomprehensible to you. Get it?

Says the guy responding to a post made at another poster...

I am not Toons mouthpiece I just saw Money ranting about something no one was disputing. Simmer down.

I answered you in the other thread with two videos that Im sure you are afraid to watch. If you want to pick that debate up, go to that thread and try to muster a response to my counterpoints. Get it? Doubt it!

TR1LL10N
Mar 02, 2011, 11:11
O'antoni has to find a balance.. which he has not yet....so its his fault.. mostly... he is subbin in and subbin out????.. right???

Yet when they win with balance like they did against Miami it's the players and not D'antoni hence the Toons thread.

TR1LL10N
Mar 02, 2011, 11:14
It's not just people on this board... It's practically everyone involved in the NBA... All I ever hear is people talking about MD as a quality Xs-&-Os offensive coach, but that his system isn't suited for the NBA. That you can't win with his style.

DET showed that SUPURB defenisve teams, who lack off. skill, have chance to win NBA title. I can't recall one team to win a title with the imverse philosophy.

MD is a tick above .500 in his career. Well below it here in NY. DEN has 4 of our players. 3 of which play significant minutes. HOw come Karl gets his guys to hold teams under 110 points?

I know and his record has nothing to do with coaching the Knicks while they shed salary bringing back inferior expiring talent for his first two years. :thumbsup:

If anything we should thank D'ant for putting his record in jeopardy since he knew Walsh planned to shed talent in order to get us under the cap for 2010.

mafra
Mar 02, 2011, 11:20
I know and his record has nothing to do with coaching the Knicks while they shed salary bringing back inferior expiring talent for his first two years. :thumbsup:

If anything we should thank D'ant for putting his record in jeopardy since he knew Walsh planned to shed talent in order to get us under the cap for 2010.

D'antoni took the money. That's why he came here. His motives were far from altruistic. Hey, he had a halfway decent enough lineup to compete for the 8th seed in the East. he opted to play Starbury over Duhon and the rest is history.

Let's not applaud Dant for his race to the bottom of the Eastern Conference. He pushed to draft Gallo. He even applauded when Love was taken so he wouldn't have a shot to come to NY.

A good coach gets MORE out of his roster. Dant has yet to do that here in NY.

I give him credit for what he does with PGs, but that's only b/c his system stresses extra possessions... and that pads their stats.

I'll give him credit for Chandler and Shawne.

BUt I will NEVER accept his philosophy that he wants a small C who can stretch the floor and pull away other BIgs from the paint.

AND, pinch me when this guy draws up a play on his clipboard that helps us win a game... How often do we see us running around clueless at the end of games, coming out of a timeout, when we have 13 seconds to get a bucket?

TR1LL10N
Mar 02, 2011, 11:20
BTW Mafra, Mike D'Antoni was 232-96 in four full seasons with the Suns. That is just a bit over .500, no? :teeth:

mafra
Mar 02, 2011, 11:24
Yet when they win with balance like they did against Miami it's the players and not D'antoni hence the Toons thread.


Billups told MD Carter could guard Wade. Melo switched to guard Lebron by himself. Doesn't sounds like MD was adjusting or making bold moves? Give him credit for giving in to his player's demands tho. That's his philosophy. Hardly practice. Little study. Just go out and play (run and shoot).

TR1LL10N
Mar 02, 2011, 11:25
D'antoni took the money. That's why he came here. His motives were far from altruistic. Hey, he had a halfway decent enough lineup to compete for the 8th seed in the East. he opted to play Starbury over Duhon and the rest is history.

Let's not applaud Dant for his race to the bottom of the Eastern Conference. He pushed to draft Gallo. He even applauded when Love was taken so he wouldn't have a shot to come to NY.

A good coach gets MORE out of his roster. Dant has yet to do that here in NY.

I give him credit for what he does with PGs, but that's only b/c his system stresses extra possessions... and that pads their stats.

I'll give him credit for Chandler and Shawne.

BUt I will NEVER accept his philosophy that he wants a small C who can stretch the floor and pull away other BIgs from the paint.

AND, pinch me when this guy draws up a play on his clipboard that helps us win a game... How often do we see us running around clueless at the end of games, coming out of a timeout, when we have 13 seconds to get a bucket?

Uhm, D'ant left Phoenix because of the shakeup in th Front Office. He did not get along with Kerr and surprise surprise, Kerr had a horrible tenure as GM.

How can you say he doesn't get more from his roster when Lee, Chandler, Felton and Williams all had career bests under his tutelage? How can you state that when Gallo, and TD steadily got better each year? How can you say that when a 2nd round pick is playing like a ROY? How can you say that when he had us competing for the 5th spot when everyone predicted the Knicks would struggle to make the playoffs?

TR1LL10N
Mar 02, 2011, 11:26
Billups told MD Carter could guard Wade. Melo switched to guard Lebron by himself. Doesn't sounds like MD was adjusting or making bold moves? Give him credit for giving in to his player's demands tho. That's his philosophy. Hardly practice. Little study. Just go out and play (run and shoot).

Exactly, when we win it's the players and when we lose its the coaches fault. i know were you stand, I just don't agree.

mafra
Mar 02, 2011, 11:28
BTW Mafra, Mike D'Antoni was 232-96 in four full seasons with the Suns. That is just a bit over .500, no? :teeth:

Losing season in DEN. Losing season first year in PHO. Losing season first 2 years in NY. Barely above .500 this year.

Again, I'm not impressed. If Maybe Nash-Stat had a lot to do with that run in PHO?

mafra
Mar 02, 2011, 11:32
Exactly, when we win it's the players and when we lose its the coaches fault. i know were you stand, I just don't agree.

And I know where you stand. You like this under 6"9' Euro-style system that his little use for BIGS or defense.

Coaches always take the blame for Ls. That's just the way it is in sports.

MD was given a 2 year pass. He certainly didn't exceed expectations. But fine. He's been an underachiever this season. 40 wins and a playoff berth was par. So he's on track to at least put for par.

Our problem is his overall philosophy. He doesn't practice defense, doesn't adjust, he never has a defensive game plan. HIs offense relies on space (in other words, nobody move or cut) and he prefer higher pct 3-point shots over points in the paint.

OH, did I mentioned he pushed Walsh to draft his godson?

mafra
Mar 02, 2011, 11:34
Uhm, D'ant left Phoenix because of the shakeup in th Front Office. He did not get along with Kerr and surprise surprise, Kerr had a horrible tenure as GM.

How can you say he doesn't get more from his roster when Lee, Chandler, Felton and Williams all had career bests under his tutelage? How can you state that when Gallo, and TD steadily got better each year? How can you say that when a 2nd round pick is playing like a ROY? How can you say that when he had us competing for the 5th spot when everyone predicted the Knicks would struggle to make the playoffs?

They have career years under his guidance b/c his system says SHOOT. SHHOT SHOOT SHOOT. Don't pass... SHOOT. Players dip when they leave b/c most teams actually want the first BEST shot, not to just chuck ball in under 7 seconds.

5th spot? We're in the 6th, and the 7th team is 1 game behind us.

Credit goes to Walsh for Fields.

Keep it coming.

iJoe
Mar 02, 2011, 11:40
I think its hilarious that everyone was praising the Knick's defense for most of that Magic game and then as soon as 2 opposing players get hot while our team gets cold, its suddenly OMFG we play no defense we suck dog ass!

It happens. It was a good game. Resist the urge to place all blame on the easiest target. Control yourself. You can do it. Really.

Remind yourself that we shook up our entire roster yet again. There was no training camp for the new guys. You can't magically expect the team to gel instantly. There is no coach on earth that can do that. Patience dear grasshoppers.

Dantoni certainly can shoulder some of the blame the same as any other coach in the league for a loss. However, coaches aren't clairvoyant. They can't always predict when a player will get hot or cold on either team. If half you guys were GMS, we would be firing coaches after every loss.

TR1LL10N
Mar 02, 2011, 11:43
Losing season in DEN.

Losing season with a Denver team filled with complete scrubs! WOrse roster than the Knicks in a rebuilding year.


Losing season first year in PHO.

He took over that team mid year and boasts the biggest turn around in league history winning 60+ next season.

Again, I'm not impressed. If Maybe Nash-Stat had a lot to do with that run in PHO?[/QUOTE]

He coached a raw rookie straight from highschool into a beast and took an average PG and made him a HOF candidate.

Oh and again, two loosing seasons in NYC was due to us rebuilding and making major trades midseason that brought back less talent while disrupting any chemistry. As to this year, most experts predicted we would be fighting for the 8th seed not in contention to become the 5th. He did this with an incomplete roster and injuries. But of course you continue to prove that you will blame D'ant for everything ignoring all the issues and rob him of any credit. Meh..haters gonna hate so do you.

TR1LL10N
Mar 02, 2011, 11:45
And I know where you stand. You like this under 6"9' Euro-style system that his little use for BIGS or defense.

Coaches always take the blame for Ls. That's just the way it is in sports.

MD was given a 2 year pass. He certainly didn't exceed expectations. But fine. He's been an underachiever this season. 40 wins and a playoff berth was par. So he's on track to at least put for par.

Our problem is his overall philosophy. He doesn't practice defense, doesn't adjust, he never has a defensive game plan. HIs offense relies on space (in other words, nobody move or cut) and he prefer higher pct 3-point shots over points in the paint.

OH, did I mentioned he pushed Walsh to draft his godson?

Yet he played Mozgov, Turiaf and JJ all above 6'10 and all for defense and rebounding...

Yea his godson who happened to play very well for us. Oh and we just traded him even though the myth was D'ant wouldn't allow it...

TR1LL10N
Mar 02, 2011, 11:49
They have career years under his guidance b/c his system says SHOOT. SHHOT SHOOT SHOOT. Don't pass... SHOOT. Players dip when they leave b/c most teams actually want the first BEST shot, not to just chuck ball in under 7 seconds.

5th spot? We're in the 6th, and the 7th team is 1 game behind us.

Credit goes to Walsh for Fields.

Keep it coming.

Career years with increased FG%, rebounding and assists equals more than simply extra possessions...

yes, for a time prior to the trade we were in throwing distance of Atlanta. I like how you parse and dode the point where every team ahead of us had a better roster and the Knicks are overachieving beyond what anyone thought prior to the season.

Ahh, I see so credit goes to Walsh for drafting fields but blame goges to D'ant for drafting Gallo! :thumbsup: (even though I am a Gallo fan) Yes, credit goes to Walsh for drafting Fields but D'ant gets credit for coaching him, inserting him in the lineup and giving him the minutes to shine. What was that other myth about D'ant? Oh yea! He refuses to play rookies...wrong!

I would tell you to keep it coming but you have yet to begin...

mafra
Mar 02, 2011, 11:51
I just don't buy into D'antoni's style. Sorry. Don't believe in it. Never will. I like FLUIDITY. MOVEMENT. Passing the ball. HIGH PCT SHOTs. I think SIZE MATTERS. If that makes me a hater, so be it.

Look what Thibby is doing in CHI. Not bad for his first year. JUST NOW, was he able to get both Noah-Boozer on the court at the same time.

I think good defense creates offense. I think D'ants style of offense... GOGOGOGOGOGOGO prohibits effort on defense. Then I want to puke when coach talks after the game and calls out the defensive effort (as if he coaches it).

I never liked the hire; wanted to puke when he drafts his godson; and I'm not happy b/c we might get the chance to lose in the first round to the bulls-heat. Knicks will never reach the FINALS under MD. That's reality.

moneyg
Mar 02, 2011, 11:52
Yet he played Mozgov, Turiaf and JJ all above 6'10 and all for defense and rebounding...

Yea his godson who happened to play very well for us. Oh and we just traded him even though the myth was D'ant wouldn't allow it...


if Walsh pass on melo becuz of O'antoni... he would of been let go...FACT..

there are articles that say it was more O'antoni unwillingness to part with Gallo than anything else...FACT


T mOz needed playin time.. O'antoni gave him some early on...IMO.. Walsh was behing that..

T moz would of never got off the bench again... until we had injuries.. and he played well in that one game and O'antoni stuck with him...IMO..walsh was behind that too...

who do you think is a better player right now.. Tmoz or darko???

MusketeerX
Mar 02, 2011, 12:04
BTW Mafra, Mike D'Antoni was 232-96 in four full seasons with the Suns. That is just a bit over .500, no? :teeth:

Nash and Amar'e will do that for you. Nash was D'Antoni's wet dream in real life. There is perhaps only on other player similar to him in the NBA... Deron Williams.

MusketeerX
Mar 02, 2011, 12:08
D'Antoni doesn't emphasize defense. Is anyone disputing this? When we lose because we don't play defense, is there not a connection?

Do you guys really think that Amar'e and Melo wouldn't be playing better defense under Thibodeau?

I think the key statement was made by Mafra when he said defense and little offensive skill has proven to win rings. Offense with little defense has not shown the same.

Strongly believe will be a better team as soon as we get rid of MDA.

Toons
Mar 02, 2011, 12:44
ok, to anyone replying with hostility, get a life.

next, How can you compare our front court to chicago's front court?
Noah is a defensive big with little offense. No one coached him into this category, he was drafted becaus eof his defensive instincts to block shots and his quickness for a big man. The bulls had another 7 footer in aaron gray last year, they have 7 footer omar asik and carlos boozer, with a backup of kurt thomas. We have amare and sean williams.
With a centre in the game, we beat the magic easily. A centre to make up for amare's deficiencies. A big that blocks and boards. Thats it, and we are a contender.

Like i said before, you cant get mad at dantoni because turiaf insnt an offensive player. You cant get mad at a pawn for not being a rook. You have to space the floor and play team defense. You cant just say, dont get beat by your man, or box out more, and bam, the team is now a defensive team, just because someone told you to be defensive.

I cant understand how people get upset because we lost to the magic when howard had probably his biggest mismatch of the season.

Red
Mar 02, 2011, 12:50
Comments and thoughts on the topic.

Boggles the mind how some fans think....

We just played a good game against the magic, and lost some steam down the stretch. We had to give all of our energy to make up for our lack of size and didnt get blown out. Yes we could have won, but we gave it our all and were competitive down to the end. Melo wont struggle every game, and being a melo fan, i feel a 40 pt game coming up next....thats what melo does.

I didn't read every post yet but...

Doesn't it depend on how we lose? Players cold or missing shots is different from bad matchups or not getting the ball into the right hands, so it depends.

Last night was definitly a winnable game. That said MDA is still learning things so can't really blame him. Maybe he didn't realize Jameer was too fast for Billups and either Landry, TD, or Carter would of been better. Williams on D12 in theory should bring Howard out of the paint and we couldn't use JJ as MDA probably would so it was what it was.

Not to be too critcal but

1. MDA will be judged when the situation rises again and we'll see if he can adjust, he gets a pass for last night

2. Billups injury hurt us

3. Inconsistency from Landry, TD, and Carter hurt as they were open but... that said I don't think its too much to expect a coach with his resume to have a plan b and c

But yeah sometimes its coach and sometimes its the players. We'd rather go thru thi now and adjust for later than the opposite

gmpknick
Mar 02, 2011, 12:50
Sorry bro... D'antoni contributed to this loss. IT'S UNDENIABLE.

ORL exploded for 37 4th quarter points. Nelson had 3 points at the half.

Landry Fields entered the game with 10:30 to play in the 4th. A minute later Douglas comes out, and then a minute later Carter is removed. At the same time, Nelson comes back in the game. 8:22 to play. Knicks down by a few points. Billups guarding Nelson.

NBA NTWK announcers were saying how... in DET... coach knew better, and would play Stuckey on Nelson. He was too quick for Billups. Nelson just dominates the next 4:30 minutes and ORL pulls away. Nelson goes out and then comes back in. He drains a 3. Game over.

Coach has got to be aware of this potential matchup BEFORE the game, and should be looking for it... especially come the 4th. As soon as Nelson starts heating up... YANK FIELDS and throw Douglas to D-up Nelson.

For TEN minutes... Landry Fields was basically a waste of space out there. A shooting guard with little offense. Landry played 35 minutes and had 1 assist and 6 poitns (1-5 from downtown). SG is the one position you can't afford to give away offense. HENCE THE NAME SHOOTING GUARD.

If you want rebounds, then find a real center.

Not to rag on Fields. Dude was a steal. He hits big shots (normally), and has high basketball IQ. Will pass, rebound, do the little things. BUT please... let's be real here. Dude should not be handed 35-40 minutes every game regardless.

ALSO, I'm tired of watching Chandler, and now Shawne, guard centers. Let's hope this ends now that Jeffries is back.

SO... it was coach who stuck with Fields the entire 4th. Coach sat and watched Nelson take over the game w/out adjusting. Did it cost us the game? Who knows. But we did lose, and those were HIS choices. He must be responsible.

WE KNOW THE DEAL... Dantoni feels like good offense beats good defense. If we shoot the ball, then nothing else matters. This is why Douglas will enter the game ICE COLD and immediately chuck a 3 pointer with 2 minutes left, down 6... B/C this is what the coach preaches.


I'd have to agree..:agreed:


I'm sure these players know how to practice the fundamentals of defense..I mean let's face it...D'Ant don't need to show them how to get your a*s into somebody..how to take away air space on shooters, chase down loose balls..those things are just player effort..which this knick team can be lazy about..
However, D'Ant, need to be able to coach better on the fly, game situation adjustments are not this coaches strength...Yes,
Billups was getting reemed last night in trying to gaurd Nelson....who caught fire...D'Ant, did not even run doubles at him, or better yet, switch T.Douglas who is quicker afoot and can mkeep in close to Nelson...Nelson is not a great shooter when he has somebody in close to him..ala first half, with Douglas gaurding him...So Mike D, needs to buy he Phil Jackson book of coaching on the fly and he needs to make better defensive adjustments..
Tonights game on gaurding CP3 will be a good test of how D'Ant coaches on the fly.:smokin:

MusketeerX
Mar 02, 2011, 12:56
ok, to anyone replying with hostility, get a life.

next, How can you compare our front court to chicago's front court?
Noah is a defensive big with little offense. No one coached him into this category, he was drafted becaus eof his defensive instincts to block shots and his quickness for a big man. The bulls had another 7 footer in aaron gray last year, they have 7 footer omar asik and carlos boozer, with a backup of kurt thomas. We have amare and sean williams.
With a centre in the game, we beat the magic easily. A centre to make up for amare's deficiencies. A big that blocks and boards. Thats it, and we are a contender.

Like i said before, you cant get mad at dantoni because turiaf insnt an offensive player. You cant get mad at a pawn for not being a rook. You have to space the floor and play team defense. You cant just say, dont get beat by your man, or box out more, and bam, the team is now a defensive team, just because someone told you to be defensive.

I cant understand how people get upset because we lost to the magic when howard had probably his biggest mismatch of the season.

Noah hasn't played much of the year for the Bulls and is still a bit undersized. But, no one is comparing just the front court. The Bulls in my opinion have one stellar defender in Luol Deng. The rest of the teams is average or below. Noah is a hustler, but I don't think a great defender.

The team we had was built around D'Antoni's system... The team now was blown up a bit for it, but all of D'Antoni's teams have had more offensive players over defensive players by a wide margin. That is fault of the system. So, yes, I think it is more than fair to compare.

Tom also gets defense out of his players they didn't know they had, and has a system in place to deal with weaknesses in each player's defensive game. D'Antoni needs to learn those for this new group of players, but never learned it for the ones before the trade deadline.

When we had a Big that could block and grab some boards, D'Antoni benched him for two months... It was only after a ridiculous game that D'Antoni finally figured out that he should play the kid...

D'Antoni doesn't emphasize D -- are you denying that Toons?

Tom Thibodeau would get better defense out of our team. Are you denying that Toons?

Toons
Mar 02, 2011, 13:07
brother i dont care if we had a jesus himself coaching, with williams on howard, we are not in a good position to win a game. Why? because we dont have the players to guard howard.

Noah averages 13 and 11 in a rough season dealing with injury and a new inside presence. Noah averages 1.1 steals per game and almost 2 blocks per. Noah IS an elite defender. (not a perimeter defender, but for his position, he is up there with the best)

I have seen him emphasize Defense, so its hard to say he doesnt. I believe that defense is mostly effort. If the effort is there consistently, (we have seen it in spurts) we would be called a 'defensive' team.

If thibs was here, nah....we would still be where we are defensively. If he brought noah with him....now....diff story

Toons
Mar 02, 2011, 13:08
btw, noah is NOT undersized. 6'11'' 230 is not undersized

moneyg
Mar 02, 2011, 13:11
brother i dont care if we had a jesus himself coaching, with williams on howard, we are not in a good position to win a game. Why? because we dont have the players to guard howard.

Noah averages 13 and 11 in a rough season dealing with injury and a new inside presence. Noah averages 1.1 steals per game and almost 2 blocks per. Noah IS an elite defender. (not a perimeter defender, but for his position, he is up there with the best)

I have seen him emphasize Defense, so its hard to say he doesnt. I believe that defense is mostly effort. If the effort is there consistently, (we have seen it in spurts) we would be called a 'defensive' team.

If thibs was here, nah....we would still be where we are defensively. If he brought noah with him....now....diff story


so why dont we have a big.???... i guess its walsh fault for giving O'antoni the players he asked for

MusketeerX
Mar 02, 2011, 13:19
btw, noah is NOT undersized. 6'11'' 230 is not undersized

Danilo was 6'10 and 225. No way I would play him at center. Noah is undersized.

Look if you really think that Tommy couldn't help our defense, then I am at a loss for words. But, think about this... it wasn't Dwight that got them back into the game last night. It was Ryan Anderson, Nelson, and an utter lack of good defensive rotations off the pick and roll...

I don't know how a coach that is supposed to be the master of the pick and roll can't defend against it or make the proper adjustments after being burned by it time after time...

Let me add that I do think he is a great hustler. Landry Fields type... Would be glad to have him on my team.

Toons
Mar 02, 2011, 13:46
no way you would want Noah to play centre for us? a guy who averages a double double and is a natural centre? wow, i am at a lost for words.

i never said he wouldnt help our defense, he would. But it wouldnt be by leaps and bounds.