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View Full Version : I'm not willing to throw Mike D'Antoni under the bus. I'm giving this man a chance.



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KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Mar 06, 2011, 13:14
He deserves a strong chance. He's an excellent basketball coach.

This is the 1st year that he's had any talent to work with as NY's head coach; & the Knicks are in strong position to strike for a playoff birth (for the 1st time in whats been too long).

The Suns were a top 3-5 power house each & every year under MDA. In an extremely tough Westen Conf too. The Suns never won a championship, but just look @ how many wins they had under MDA... They were an outstanding team.

Everyone attacks MDA because of our defense, but yet, no one gives him credit for NY having a top 3 offensive attack.

Before the trade, MDA was working with 4 of 5 starters in Felton, Fields, Amare & Mozgov who weren't even with the Knicks last year. As of right now? 5 starters who weren't with us last year. Defense doesn't happen over night. It's a work in progress. It takes time to gel as a defensive unit. Fields is a learning rookie, we have NO Center what so ever & we have 5 new starters. MDA deserves a chance. He's a good coach.

jpz17
Mar 06, 2011, 13:17
D'Antoni is the man and has 10x the basketball knowledge of ANYONE on this board

KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Mar 06, 2011, 13:24
I'm also willing to give Jeffries a strong chance this time around. I've seen so many NY fans attacking JJ after only his 1st game back with the Knicks that it's sad. Oakley was horrible on offense, but the man gave us toughness & was great on defense. Not saying JJ will become a 'great' defender, but he can become great for our defense. He brings a lot of toughness to the defense too; just ask the neck of Carmelo Anthony. The man plays with intensity & heart & thats what the Knicks have been lacking since the days of Stakrs, Oakley, Ewing & Mason of the 90's.... And even those guys had years & years of working together on the defensive aspects of the game.

Before the trade? Our defense allowed 90 pts or less only two times. After the trade? We've allowed fewer than 90 pts two times after only 6 games (Heat-Hornets). We're improving. We're still not consistant but lets be real here; D'Antoni hasn't been given a chance to become a consistant team on defense. How many players were on this team...last year?

KingofNy
Mar 06, 2011, 13:53
D'Antoni is the man and has 10x the basketball knowledge of ANYONE on this board

The Cavs fans around the world totally agree with you and hope that we keep Antoni forever.

KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Mar 06, 2011, 14:03
What about beating the Lakers, Heat (2 times), Bulls (2 times), Hornets, Spurs etc, etc this year? Yeah... Blame the coach for the players playing down to the level of their opponent when speaking of the Cavs.

Attack the coach when the team loses & praise the players when they win an upset. Funny.

StEpHoN_mArBuRy
Mar 06, 2011, 14:08
We never beat the Lakers..

AmareForPresident
Mar 06, 2011, 14:11
What about beating the Lakers
I stopped reading after this,We never beat the Lakers this season.

KingofNy
Mar 06, 2011, 14:13
What about beating the Lakers, Heat (2 times), Bulls (2 times), Hornets, Spurs etc, etc this year? Yeah... Blame the coach for the players playing down to the level of their opponent when speaking of the Cavs.

Attack the coach when the team loses & praise the players when they win an upset. Funny.

Do you even watch the games? We never beat the Lakers... Our players are out of position when playing D. It's not that they're just getting outplayed. These guys are in the NBA, they know how to play D. It's bad coaching on both sides of the ball sucks. The Cavs beat Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Boston and our Knicks (3 times)....What the hell does that prove? Based on your logic Cleveland is pretty good. LOL

AmareForPresident
Mar 06, 2011, 14:15
Has anyone noticed that whenever our players are guarding they never have their hands up.

KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Mar 06, 2011, 14:15
My fault, still doesn't change the fact that we've beat the Bulls (2x), Heat (2x), Hornets & Spurs just to name a few.

We lost to the Cavs 3 times. The players deserve just as much blame as MDA. It's not MDA fault they blew a 10+ point lead during the 4th quarter. He was a reason with some of the moves, but then again, the Players were the one's who blew the game. D'Antoni holds a clip board, not the ball.

KingofNy
Mar 06, 2011, 14:16
Has anyone noticed that whenever our players are guarding they never have their hands up.

Who holds the players responsible for not playing D correctly? Just wondering?

AmareForPresident
Mar 06, 2011, 14:17
It's not MDA fault they blew a 10+ point lead during the 4th quarter.
Yeah it was.Mike D'antoni doesn't teach defense and that why we lost.

KingofNy
Mar 06, 2011, 14:19
My fault, still doesn't change the fact that we've beat the Bulls (2x), Heat (2x), Hornets & Spurs just to name a few.

We lost to the Cavs 3 times. The players deserve just as much blame as MDA. It's not MDA fault they blew a 10+ point lead during the 4th quarter. He was a reason with some of the moves, but then again, the Players were the one's who blew the game. D'Antoni holds a clip board, not the ball.

Since you're into repeating a bad example I'll repeat my response.

The Cavs beat Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Boston and our Knicks (3 times)....What the hell does that prove? Based on your logic Cleveland is pretty good. What does your point prove? Nothing. Bad teams beat good teams all the time. A good coach prepares their team to beat both the good and the bad teams and holds his players responsible for not following his game plan correctly. When a team isn't consistent, that falls directly on the coach...never the players.

When's the last time a player got fired for his team losing?

KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Mar 06, 2011, 14:19
You know why the players are playing out of position? Because before the trade we have 4 starters who weren't with the team last year. After the trade, we have 5 brand new starters. Think defense comes "over night"? Wrong.

Find me ONE team... That made the playoffs with 5 new starters who weren't on the team the previous year. Better yet, find me a team that had 4 od 5 new starters who ranked as a top 12 defense. I'll be waiting.

AmareForPresident
Mar 06, 2011, 14:20
Who holds the players responsible for not playing D correctly? Just wondering?
Damn i really have no idea...
http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz260/xToP-GuN-/dantoni.jpg

KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Mar 06, 2011, 14:24
The answer is to find a defensive minded assistant. Simple as that. Not "fire" the coach who had plenty of Success with the Suns inside of an extremely tough Westen Conf. The answer is not to "fire" the coach who's leading us into the playoffs with one of it not the best offensive attack in all of basketball.

Call me out for not "watching the games"? I watch every game. NBA league pass works wonders. Have you watched the Knicks over the past 10+ years? If so, you would enjoy our recent success instead of bashing the coach and everything about our NEW team.

KingofNy
Mar 06, 2011, 14:28
You know why the players are playing out of position? Because before the trade we have 4 starters who weren't with the team last year. After the trade, we have 5 brand new starters. Think defense comes "over night"? Wrong.

Find me ONE team... That made the playoffs with 5 new starters who weren't on the team the previous year. Better yet, find me a team that had 4 od 5 new starters who ranked as a top 12 defense. I'll be waiting.

I forgot that our defense was good the 2 years prior. Nice point. :rolleyes:

KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Mar 06, 2011, 14:35
Oh well, you all can contunue to bash MDA all you want. Have fun with it. Me? I'll support the man & enjoy the season for what it is; a chance to make the playoffs in whats been too long led by two superstars & a team that has yet to gel.

I'm not gonna "argue" about D'Antoni from here on out. I'm just gonna enjoy tonights big game against Atlanta & enjoy our team heading into the playoffs.

StEpHoN_mArBuRy
Mar 06, 2011, 14:47
You say defensive minded assistant but do you know Dantoni has rejected that suggestion everytime he's been pressed about it? Does that change your stance on him?

petescud
Mar 06, 2011, 14:48
I don't know what to think aside from if Herb Williams is our defensive coach, he should be let go. Also look at the Net game the other night. They gave up 136 points, and Avery Johnson was always defensive orientated, so whats the deal?

StEpHoN_mArBuRy
Mar 06, 2011, 14:51
That game went to triple ot..

KingofNy
Mar 06, 2011, 15:19
That game went to triple ot..

+1

We gave up 110+ points 29 of our 60 games. That's almost exactly half of our games. That's not even counting the 23 games we gave up 100-109. So in a total of 52 games out of 60 we gave up 100+. That's disgusting.

We gave up 131 to Utah and 129 to Phoenix, both without even going to overtime. How much more do we have to let our opponents score before people realize it's the coach/system that's the problem... NOT THE PLAYERS!

LJ4ptplay
Mar 06, 2011, 15:23
D'Antoni will end up being fired. Not because I don't think he can win a championship. I think he is a good coach and I think he can win a championship with the right pieces. But he will be fired because we traded all our assets, draft picks and depth for Melo. Somebody will take the fall for that and it will be D'Antoni.

KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Mar 06, 2011, 17:07
I cant disagree with you more LJ. No way D'Antoni gets fired, especially after making the playoffs (if we do) for the first time in a long time. Add to the fact that he's been working with 4 & now 5 starters that weren't with the Knicks last year & his job is safe for the time being.

Also, we didn't give up too much.

Wrong or right; Randolph had no future with the Knicks.

Curry had no future with the Knicks to begin.

Even if NY would have taken a huge gamble & signed Melo as a FA; Chandler would have been gone as a FA regardless.

Lets not consider Mozgov a loss. He was a project C from Russia only averaging 4 & 3. Every player has "potential".

What have we lost so far?

Even if we kept Gallo, he would have been a 6th man off the bench. How many mins would he have earned behind Melo? Not many. Add to the fact that we have an up & coming TD, who will make for a strong 6th man, with S.Will/Walker backing up Melo @ SF & the loss of Gallo isn't a big deal. We landed a GREAT.

Billups over Felton all day.

ronoranina
Mar 06, 2011, 17:51
D'Antoni will end up being fired. Not because I don't think he can win a championship. I think he is a good coach and I think he can win a championship with the right pieces. But he will be fired because we traded all our assets, draft picks and depth for Melo. Somebody will take the fall for that and it will be D'Antoni.

damn LJ.. you act like we're not set up to be a 50 win team for the next 3 seasons @ the very least.

KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Mar 06, 2011, 18:07
Our offense started off red hot. Slowed down from the middle to end of the 1st. At least we played strong team defense holding Atlanta to 19 points. Defense taking charges and all...

Douglas is a spark off the bench/starter & nice to have a vet like Carter as a 3rd option..

KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Mar 06, 2011, 18:09
Damn forgot which thread I was in. My fault.

iSaYughh
Mar 06, 2011, 18:24
Is it MDA's fault that we have the #2 (and what could end as the #1) offense in the league?

Or that if/when we face a #2 or 3 seeded team in the playoffs, our ability to realistically win will be a bonefied reality?

Or, that, over the backdrop of this -- almost every analyst, and KO member (especially the anti-MDA crew) had us penciled in as a hopefully .500, likely playoff-missing team?

I just need these things reconciled before I began starting threads demanding our coach get fired mid-season. To say nothing of how powerful we will be, and can be, once our (again) restructured roster has time to gel.

And maybe we get a halfway adequate starting C at the most premium defensive position, that means ever more to us given our reserves and our starting PF, and see what this "defense" looks like then.

iSaYughh
Mar 06, 2011, 18:31
damn LJ.. you act like we're not set up to be a 50 win team for the next 3 seasons @ the very least.

I like LJ, besides being undisputed cap guru and knowing ins and outs of NBA as well as anyone...

IMO, his speculation here is pessimistically clouded by how fundamentally opposed he is to superstars hijacking negotiations, superstar egos and grandiosity, etc...Lebron fiasco, now Melo, etc

Arguably, I would agree that the fear would be we ARE the next version of the Hawks, or say ORL (before this year) at best. And are locked into being a winning, but forever chip'less team, that never moves enough in either direction to facilitator changes and bold moves that would be needed.

KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Mar 06, 2011, 18:31
Well said iSaYughh.

iSaYughh
Mar 06, 2011, 18:42
Well said iSaYughh.

I agree with your OP. I'm not ready to throw MDA under the bus either. Basically bc we are the ****ing bus that is and will be running other people over.

This would be like businesses setting standards and mandates for their workers; having their employees meet, or exceed, them.

Then ****-canning them bc the company had a few hiccups dealing with profit (already having been made by them); or 'just not liking them' and assuming the next person will surely be The Perfect person, solve the (already fixable) issues that existed, and maintain the (exiting) advantages that have been.


And don't mind the excessive bitching about your LAK miscue. More semantics than anything. Bball grammar police. :alert:

nuckles2k2
Mar 06, 2011, 18:54
5 coaches have won the past 15 NBA championships. Phil with 8, Greg Pops with 4, Larry Brown, Pat Riley, and Doc Rivers.

They all coached defense as well as offense, maybe some more than others...but all certainly coached it more than Mikey D does. That's going back to 1995...well over a decade ago, and it would go even further back to the early 90s, but I made the cut off at the 94-95 Rockets with Rudy T.

It's not like the NBA is a league where any old "good coach" can win. 5 dudes coaching 15 championship winning teams, all with great players, but also similar philosophies at their cores. And D'Antoni is the exact opposite...but he's somehow gonna buck the trend and be that guy that enters his name in that elite category with a philosophy that he hasn't brought to fruition yet...call me a hater...a pessimist, whatever. But I don't see it.

nuckles2k2
Mar 06, 2011, 19:05
It's also quite a coincidence that the Bulls have 8 new players on their roster (only 4 returning from last year) but they also get the #1 defensive assistant as their head coach and he brings in his friend Ron Adams, who was the defensive assistant for the Thunder, and both teams are immediately effected. The Bulls get off to a start playing excellent defense and are maintaining it throughout the season, and the Thunder started the season with a subpar defense...especially when compared to last year.

But yet D'Antoni is a good enough defensive coach in waiting because...the roster was turned over....no wait, because he doesn't have his guys...no, uh, because we're good per 100 possesions....huh? no we're not? Does anyone else have anymore obscure stats from the book Basketball on Paper? Cause you know....the game is played on paper and ****...that's how Phil and Pops won 12 rings in 15 seasons.

iSaYughh
Mar 06, 2011, 19:11
Two words:

Doc Rivers.

He "was" ****. Performed infinitely worse than MDA, had a worse pedigree, and had branding irons under his hot seat.

Now he's included in the champion coaches circle, and an instrumental part of showing why MDA must go,

Yet he is a part of the proof as why MDA must not (at least not right now).

Teams need three things for defense, above all else -- including coaching:

Defensive wizards and gamers (obvious)

Vocal/revered defense-craving players, especially bigs (Garnett? Perkins? Duncan? Noah? Kobe?)

Depth (to let players, especially those NOT naturally gifted or inclined, to make the key stops and plays, especially late in games).

All of this again illustrates that D is relatively easy to procure.

A player doesn't come to a team and make his other players magically nail 3s or become better offensive players.

Defensively, this happens. And it happens often.

Pau Gasol's transformation; and The Garnett Revolution, two prime examples. Of just recent ones, and ones related to championships.

Give us a vocal defensive player, let alone who is a C...how about we actually get a starting caliber C....

Some legit depth for our 3/4/5 rotation,

And a 1tricky pony defensive player or two,

And we will be dramatically better defensively, even if MDA is as forever-bad as you might think.

We will also have the hardest thing to achieve and cultivate:

Likely the #1 offense in the NBA for the next 5 years.

Defense, as Chauncey Billups and countless others have said, and history shows, has a lot to do with other players' influence, depth, and personal desire.

Coaching totally aside.

ronoranina
Mar 06, 2011, 19:25
It's also quite a coincidence that the Bulls have 8 new players on their roster (only 4 returning from last year) but they also get the #1 defensive assistant as their head coach and he brings in his friend Ron Adams, who was the defensive assistant for the Thunder, and both teams are immediately effected. The Bulls get off to a start playing excellent defense and are maintaining it throughout the season, and the Thunder started the season with a subpar defense...especially when compared to last year.

But yet D'Antoni is a good enough defensive coach in waiting because...the roster was turned over....no wait, because he doesn't have his guys...no, uh, because we're good per 100 possesions....huh? no we're not? Does anyone else have anymore obscure stats from the book Basketball on Paper? Cause you know....the game is played on paper and ****...that's how Phil and Pops won 12 rings in 15 seasons.

Who said this team was good per 100 possessions??? I don't remember anyone saying that. I mentioned his previous teams were adequate to make the connection between Coach's previous forgotten or unknown work to most on the forum and what we can hope to see in the future w this team, but I don't remember myself or anyone else saying THIS team was good yet per 100..

Not sure you're being accurate in saying that.

Clyde & The Pearl
Mar 06, 2011, 20:58
damn LJ.. you act like we're not set up to be a 50 win team for the next 3 seasons @ the very least.

I knew you'd be in here. Anything MDA has to be checked and rechecked. Lets see if I can find you in a neutral type thread...

The Garden '95
Mar 06, 2011, 20:59
these lets keep dantoni threads are always made when we win 2-3 games in a row but when were stinking these so called dantoni embracers have picket signs just like the rest of us.

ronoranina
Mar 06, 2011, 21:02
I knew you'd be in here. Anything MDA has to be checked and rechecked. Lets see if I can find you in a neutral type thread...

okay.. now you're just trolling :td:

JeffVanGundyPLEASE!
Mar 06, 2011, 21:06
all he needs to do is hire a d minded assistant coach and were good just fo what doc rivers did in hiring tom thibs and were good

Clyde & The Pearl
Mar 06, 2011, 21:11
okay.. now you're just trolling :td:

Not trolling. Just proving a point. How many times do you have to argue and re-argue your position on MDA? Everyone here knows your stance. You're boarding on going insane...