Can Defenive minded players make up for BAD Coaching?

The way I see it, our coachig staff has no clue what they are doing when it comes to defense.

If we had so called "defensive minded" players, dont you think that should rub off on our other players and cause a chain reaction?

I say that to say this. If you add a player to our roster like ron artest, shane battier, dwight howard, raja bell, sam dalembert etc... Those players will automatically bring the defensive intensity out of the other players.

Our so called "defensive minded players" like JJ and carter are not the quality defensive stoppers to make the knicks better defensivesly. Especially when or coach dosnt teach D.

Add a player like dwight howard, who will clog the paint, his help defense is automatic, blocks shots,gets steals, intimidates players to not even think about coming into the paint.

He also rebounds. Add him and it makes it easier for players like melo and fields, simply because they KNOW they have help, so tey can rotate to the shooters if they get beat by their man and dwight is there to contest. Championship!

Now a wing defensive stopper like battier will guard the best wing player on the opposite team, and can also knock down shots, so teams have to stick him. Which opens up the lane (Spreads the court) for melo n stat.

Also look a tayshaun prince for detroit. Him and ben wallace controlled that defense, and the other players followed they're lead.

Players like fields can play help D w/ battier and get more steals to start the fast break.

Turiaf is not the same turiaf who blocked shots ferociously like when he played for GS or LA, anthony carter is a liability on the offensive end, as is JJ.

JJ played 19:37 minutes last night 0-3 from the field and only 5 rebounds. 3 defensive and 2 offensive. Those numbers are pitiful. Teams dont have to guard him, and he sucks in the PnR defensively. TD played 26 minutes and shot 1-12 w/ 3points. Terrible. Just wanted to add that.

My point of this thread is we need a defensive POY caliber player. MDA does not have any schemes on D, and shots will not always fall. Our role players are just not cutting it. We add a player who can by themself CONTROL the defense, without needing coaching, we will automatically be a better team.

Only the knicks let players like hansborough have career nights. That pisses me off!

Also Fields should be the number 3 or 4 option in our offense. Period. He only took 3 shots last night. He D's up, and deserves a bigger role.


I wanna know what you guys think if we keep MDA, but add a player who will controll our defense, and also has to be guarded on the offensive end. ie battier, howard, artest, prince etc...

I think the answer to your question is this: Depending on the player, yes, to a certain extent.

Dwight Howard is a game changer. I've said that in earlier posts and will repeat it here. He is the most dominant center in the NBA. He changes the complexity of a team just by being on it. Battier, Artest, etc... do not. You take Artest of the Lakers, they still win championships. See when they had Ariza.

You take Dwight Howard off the Magic, that team loses about 15 more games. You add him to the Knicks, then it doesn't quite matter who is coaching our team. I don't think we will ever be able to get D. Howard, but if we could, I would be a happy guy.

ummm, we dont have a centre....

didnt anyone notice that?

a big man in the paint helps

Can Defensive minded players make up for BAD Coaching?


Yes, in the regular season games.
Hell No! in the postseason games.

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Teammates not on the same-page on the defensive-end

Anytime u see a PG run into a bigman pick/screen constantly like Douglas
has been doing lately, means Amare & Melo are not playing DEFENSE.....
by warning their PG about the wide screen the man they are defending is
setting.
:teeth:
If we still had Marv Albert as a Knick announcer he wouldve made a big
fuss on our bigmen not looking out for their teammates on DEFENSE.
Marv Albert called-out Oakley for that same thang when PG-Mark Jackson
kept running into hard pick/screens.
Our Knicks announcers are afraid to say anything about the mistakes/flaws/
or weak-rebounding of Amare or Melo.

Coach Phil Jackson and Kobe would be screaming at Bynum & Gasol if PG-Fisher run into a solid pick/screen like Douglas have been doing.

I think we do have defensive minded role players on this team:

Landry
TD
Turiaf
Jeffries
Carter
Mason
Shawne
Shelden
Balk

All those guys can easily fill those roles on this team. It's true we need size at the C position badly but that's no excuse we should still be able to play good help team defense regardless if we have a big shotblocking C or not.

Only to an extent. 1on1 defense is overrated in the NBA, it's all about team defense. If the coach doesn't preach defense, consistently successful team defense is impossible.


Dwight Howard is an exception.

Carmare said:

Only to an extent. 1on1 defense is overrated in the NBA, it's all about team defense. If the coach doesn't preach defense, consistently successful team defense is impossible.


Dwight Howard is an exception.

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Dont forget about Garnett and Noah. They are solid defenders that could make any bad defensive coach look better.

It's not our coaching; it's our "BIG" men. JJ, Amare, Turiaf & Shelden will never get it done; no matter the coach. MDA deserves @ least a chance to land a C' to improve our paint this offseason.

It's not MDA's fault Curry never worked out & it's also never been MDA's fault that cap hell from Thomas forced us to lose a strong rebounder in David Lee as a FA.

It's not our G's or SF's either. It's our lack of C's & PF's. Peremeter D' hasn't been the problem. Filling lanes, contesting, blocking shots & a lack of rebounding ability in the paint has been NY's problem. It's been this way since before MDA arrived.

-Ewing, Oakley, Mason, Smith.
-Ewing, Camby, Thomas, L.J
-Perkins, KG, Davis, Shaq.
-Nene, Martin, Birdman, Harrington.
-Bynum, Gasol, Odom.

They all had 3 or 4 productive BIG's down low. Amare is our only BIG who can board, contest & block on a consistant basis.

We must sign either Gasol, Nene, Jordan or Dalembert + a Camby type of BIG for cheap this offseason.

Nene, Amare, Camby, JJ. Problem solved

KnicksFanFromQueens1985 said:

It's not our coaching; it's our "BIG" men. JJ, Amare, Turiaf & Shelden will never get it done; no matter the coach. MDA deserves @ least a chance to land a C' to improve our paint this offseason.

It's not MDA's fault Curry never worked out & it's also never been MDA's fault that cap hell from Thomas forced us to lose a strong rebounder in David Lee as a FA.

It's not our G's or SF's either. It's our lack of C's & PF's. Peremeter D' hasn't been the problem. Filling lanes, contesting, blocking shots & a lack of rebounding ability in the paint has been NY's problem. It's been this way since before MDA arrived.

-Ewing, Oakley, Mason, Smith.
-Ewing, Camby, Thomas, L.J
-Perkins, KG, Davis, Shaq.
-Nene, Martin, Birdman, Harrington.
-Bynum, Gasol, Odom.

They all had 3 or 4 productive BIG's down low. Amare is our only BIG who can board, contest & block on a consistant basis.

We must sign either Gasol, Nene, Jordan or Dalembert + a Camby type of BIG for cheap this offseason.

Nene, Amare, Camby, JJ. Problem solved

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You really think will be able to pry Nene away from the Nugs??? I think he'll sign a fat contract there and we cant afford to overpay. A darkhorse could be Anderson Varejao, big with solid defense. Was great for the Cavs. Although we'd have to find a way to trade for him.

As of right now we still have a chance @ Nene, for the simple fact, the offseason is right around the corner & DEN has yet to sign Nene to an extension.

Varejao would also be really good (if healthy) but NY doesn't have any pieces in place to trade for a solid BIG.

I was only using Nene as an example. Same goes for Marc Gasol who's only a restricted FA, so the chances are slim to none with Gasol but the bottom line is this; we'll have a chance of landing one of DeAndre Jordan, Dalembert, Nene or Gasol during the offseason.

D'Antoni at least deserves a chance to improve our D' through the paint; especially after leading NY to the playoffs for the 1st time since 04.

Walsh, MDA & Dolan have a plan. That plan doesn't involve surrounding Stoudemire with career backups such as JJ, Turiaf & Shelden from here on out. If Turi picks up his player option, we'll move his contract of 4M elsewhere during the offseason.

Dalembert (C), Amare (PF) / Camby (C), JJ (PF).

Thats a powerful front-line that would compete.

KnicksFanFromQueens1985 said:

As of right now we still have a chance @ Nene, for the simple fact, the offseason is right around the corner & DEN has yet to sign Nene to an extension.

Varejao would also be really good (if healthy) but NY doesn't have any pieces in place to trade for a solid BIG.

I was only using Nene as an example. Same goes for Marc Gasol who's only a restricted FA, so the chances are slim to none with Gasol but the bottom line is this; we'll have a chance of landing one of DeAndre Jordan, Dalembert, Nene or Gasol during the offseason.

D'Antoni at least deserves a chance to improve our D' through the paint; especially after leading NY to the playoffs for the 1st time since 04.

Walsh, MDA & Dolan have a plan. That plan doesn't involve surrounding Stoudemire with career backups such as JJ, Turiaf & Shelden from here on out. If Turi picks up his player option, we'll move his contract of 4M elsewhere during the offseason.

Dalembert (C), Amare (PF) / Camby (C), JJ (PF).

Thats a powerful front-line that would compete.

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Im sorry but SCREW Dalembert, he's a bum and never hustles. Just a plain bad player and bad suggestion.

Once again: Dalembert was just an example.

Jordan
Gasol
Nene
Dalembert

Thats who I'm high on. In order.

DeAndre is my obvious #1. His athletic talents for a BIG are simply freakish. He's putting up 7 pts, 7 boards & 1.7 blocks per as a kid who's only 22 years of age. His overall talents & potential go through the roof. Surround Jordan with stars such as Melo & Amare; & his game takes off to another level.

Dalembert is far from a bum. He's a legit Center. A true BIG. I've followed this man alot this year (NBA league pass). The other night against ORL Dalembert was fighting with Dwight like never before. He was trying hard & got into early foul trouble, but he was doing more than just 'holding his own'; dude was competing vs Howard.

Not sure how you can sit there & say "Dalembert is a horrible idea", when his career numbers of 8.2 pts, 8.2 rebounds & 1.9 blocks per game are much better than any "C" NY has to offer. Also better than your boy Varejau (Natural PF) who's career #'s are 7.1, 6.9 & 0.7 per...

KnicksFanFromQueens1985 said:

It's not our coaching; it's our "BIG" men. JJ, Amare, Turiaf & Shelden will never get it done; no matter the coach. MDA deserves @ least a chance to land a C' to improve our paint this offseason.

It's not MDA's fault Curry never worked out & it's also never been MDA's fault that cap hell from Thomas forced us to lose a strong rebounder in David Lee as a FA.

It's not our G's or SF's either. It's our lack of C's & PF's. Peremeter D' hasn't been the problem. Filling lanes, contesting, blocking shots & a lack of rebounding ability in the paint has been NY's problem. It's been this way since before MDA arrived.

-Ewing, Oakley, Mason, Smith.
-Ewing, Camby, Thomas, L.J
-Perkins, KG, Davis, Shaq.
-Nene, Martin, Birdman, Harrington.
-Bynum, Gasol, Odom.

They all had 3 or 4 productive BIG's down low. Amare is our only BIG who can board, contest & block on a consistant basis.

We must sign either Gasol, Nene, Jordan or Dalembert + a Camby type of BIG for cheap this offseason.

Nene, Amare, Camby, JJ. Problem solved

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well said.....

TuriafsBeard said:

You really think will be able to pry Nene away from the Nugs??? I think he'll sign a fat contract there and we cant afford to overpay. A darkhorse could be Anderson Varejao, big with solid defense. Was great for the Cavs. Although we'd have to find a way to trade for him.

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if the nugs plan to resign chandler, felton, and gallo.....nene, martin, or birdman may be in our reach

I agree a true C would automatically help out. Dalembert wouldnt be a bad choice, I would say he is a top 5 choice.

Camby is still a great rebounder, but he is a little slow now for our system. The same with birdman as far as shot blocking. Coming off the bench oen of the 2 woul be great.

Gasol is an animal, plus he is a big body. He would be a excellent pick up, and D Jordan is young and has a major upside.

I feel we have a get rid of a few of the players hehave in order to win. Of curse and pick up defenders who can knock down shots, and rebound.

If we keep MDA, it would be in our best interest to get that 3rd superstar in Howard, and just deal with he cap hell. Like someone said earlier in this post, he is the exception.

We need the excption in a system that is majorly flawed defensively.

Size would absolutely help, but it still goes back to the coach's overall philosophy. Our players CAN play defense if its stressed - they're professional basketball players for crying out loud, but our lack in size makes it very difficult to execute solid defensive schemes. We don't necessarily need to bring in a defensive superstar either.