Porzingis is shooting 42%, 35% from three hardly dominant numbers for a big man and even middling shooting numbers for the Knicks. Here's a video of Yao who was a giant of a man just like KP is and how a dominant big man should be playing, Yao had deficiencies like being slower and not as athletic as Zinger so he can be even more dominant than Yao in beating fronts and doubles and becoming an even more dominant big man in the middle. The Knicks need to decide what the approach in developing KP is going to be, force feed him to be a dominant post player or let him evolve into a stretch 4.
The Dominant Big Man
- Thread starter tiger0330
- Start date
Yao Ming was 3 inches taller and 70 pounds heavier than Porzingis is right now. Yao also only lasted 7 full seasons before his career ended abruptly and permanently in his 8th season. Also, it's worth noting, for a guy whose entire job was to live around the hoop and not stretch the floor to the 3-point line (like Porzingis), it's interesting that he only averaged double digit rebounds twice in his career. I'm not sure developing KP in the direction of Yao would work or even is the right move.
mafra
Legend
The results may not be there but the mechanics are... Kid has a sweet stroke... A natural shooter. Compare his numbers to Dirk's just first season...
The kid is coordinated and is athletic... He can dribble... The only area of his O game that doesn't look natural is his post presence. He is too weak and young... His stump not stout and sturdy enough, so he can't rally establish and dictate position... This will come...
I want him to develop interior skills while allowing for growth in his outside game. I think we should be grooming a Dirk/Pau more than a traditional big C
The kid is coordinated and is athletic... He can dribble... The only area of his O game that doesn't look natural is his post presence. He is too weak and young... His stump not stout and sturdy enough, so he can't rally establish and dictate position... This will come...
I want him to develop interior skills while allowing for growth in his outside game. I think we should be grooming a Dirk/Pau more than a traditional big C
Not sure what the team will do with his talents but he'll have to be Dominant, if we're going anywhere. I think he has to be better than anyone could anticipate him being.
He has to create major separation next 2yrs from players like (Towns, Okafor, Turner, Jokic, Kaminsky, WCS, Parker, Portis, Noel, Randle) and close the gap almost air tight on players like (Davis, Cousins, Drummond, Vucevic, Whiteside). Keep in mind other talent will come into the league next yr and at least a handful will be good, a couple of them could be bigs.
He has to create major separation next 2yrs from players like (Towns, Okafor, Turner, Jokic, Kaminsky, WCS, Parker, Portis, Noel, Randle) and close the gap almost air tight on players like (Davis, Cousins, Drummond, Vucevic, Whiteside). Keep in mind other talent will come into the league next yr and at least a handful will be good, a couple of them could be bigs.
Seems a shame not to emphasize his greatest advantage, his size, wingspan and leaping ability. Yao was 7'6" but had a 7'5" wingspan with average leaping ability. Porzingis is 7'3" with a 7'6" wingspan and a 38" vertical. I've seen putback dunks where he's 3 FT out with a defender between him and the rim. He'd be a monster right now if we fed him in the post for high percentage shots, trouble is we're not emphasizing that with him preferring to feature Rolo down low with that hook shot.
I'm not convinced he's not heavy or strong enough to get position down low but we're not doing enough to find out IMO. I wonder if they do it in practice with him where Rolo tries to push him out of the block?
Tiger .. Great point! Our coaching staff has not showed Porzingis any low post moves with his back to the basket, nor have they showed Porzingis how to position himself in the paint to stop inside scoring as a rookie.
Some how the media are praising coach Rambis for talent Porzingis had before being drafted in the NBA.
Yao had a great bigman-coaching staff, plus Yao made enough $$$ money worldwide in his 7 years in the NBA for his grandchildren to never see a broke day.
I wish i had a top 10 video of rookie KG, or rookie Horry to give to Porzingis to show the type of talent a bigman coaching-staff provide to a talented big rookie. All of Patrick Ewing big man talent from Georgetown wasn't utilize in the NBA until a year and half injury teammate Bill Cartwright were healthy for practice sessions.
I recall a one season Sampson n rookie Olyjuwon taking bigman head coach Tom to the FINALS .. thats why Olyjuwon were selected as the first pick over Jordan.
The Knicks coach Fisher had the chance to teach Porzingis how to be a dominating C/F in his rookie season by making Porzingis the first Big off the bench to take advantage of opponents bench players.
Porzingis should have been the backup of O'Quinn, and Lopez.
Some how the media are praising coach Rambis for talent Porzingis had before being drafted in the NBA.
Yao had a great bigman-coaching staff, plus Yao made enough $$$ money worldwide in his 7 years in the NBA for his grandchildren to never see a broke day.
I wish i had a top 10 video of rookie KG, or rookie Horry to give to Porzingis to show the type of talent a bigman coaching-staff provide to a talented big rookie. All of Patrick Ewing big man talent from Georgetown wasn't utilize in the NBA until a year and half injury teammate Bill Cartwright were healthy for practice sessions.
I recall a one season Sampson n rookie Olyjuwon taking bigman head coach Tom to the FINALS .. thats why Olyjuwon were selected as the first pick over Jordan.
The Knicks coach Fisher had the chance to teach Porzingis how to be a dominating C/F in his rookie season by making Porzingis the first Big off the bench to take advantage of opponents bench players.
Porzingis should have been the backup of O'Quinn, and Lopez.
mafra
Legend
I agree we should find ways to rotate ball and get him the rock in the post... Shooters race around screens to get a 3... We could set screens for him to get him
Ball on block, to offset bigger guys pushing him out... And then he needs to make quick move and go to the hook. The hook and the fadeaway jumper is unguardable for him.
Ball on block, to offset bigger guys pushing him out... And then he needs to make quick move and go to the hook. The hook and the fadeaway jumper is unguardable for him.
I don't think the Knicks spend a lot of time coaching on an individual basis, preferring to coach at a team level, practicing sets and the like. Bring in a big man coach to coach KP now if the Knicks aren't doing it, he's the future and they need to make an investment in it.
I thought you said, you read somewhere he has a hook shot and was doing guys dirty in practice. Where is it at? Why would he be working on something in practice where the team holds him back in games showcasing it? Something is amiss here. Not doubting what you read at all, you bring a lot of camera color to the forum providing for a more lively discussion. What I question is how we go about connecting the dots and making sense of the results.
As of now #kporzee is an above average defender, who's pretty athletic with a reliable jump shot. The whole system would have to shift towards his canvas of talent to even have a remote chance in him becoming dominant.
It also means dumping guys like Afflalo and Derrick Williams
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Didn't read it but heard it when Haarlow said it at one of the games after interviewing Rambis. She said Rambis told her KP has post moves that the fans haven't seen at games. KP can do it at practice all he wants but if they don't run offensive sets for him to use his post skills what good is it. He plays like a wing on the Knicks not like a big man, I want to make him a big man and play like a big man.
Oh no prob Tig how you acquired the tidbit of info, I trust what you've read/heard/seen and appreciate it. I think I heard Breen mention it shortly thereafter you bringing it to light, during a home game.
If he's doing those things on a consistent basis in practice then what gives? I don't want to dismiss Rambis as babbling but when you mentioned it a few weeks back I questioned it then and I question it now. If he has post moves and hooks shots in practice then why go counter to that in real games? While I think he's working on parts of his game I don't think it's to the degree in heavy practice scrimmaging. He's probably had some 1-on-1 sessions here and there tapping into some things but sorry that's not the same as doing it live in heated battles.
Not to mention #kporzee has been on a 3week or so regression, regardless of awards handed out to him. He doesn't look like November #kporzee and hasn't in a while. The only thing he's slightly improved on is pump faking and getting something off the dribble, that's it. As far as his athleticism they could call a few plays with rim action lobs, like Fisher saw ran in L.A. with Shaq. Near the corner screen 3 and roll to rim for lob and if he's spotted as a shooter near corner do some back door action lobs from the baseline. What #kporzee is not going to make a career of is using his athleticism reaching over the backs of defenders for putbacks to become dominant.
Look at the Clippers they can't when a Chip playing Lob City and no one really does it better than them. They have two near dominant big men in Blake and Jordan as a collective and yet they still fall behind GSW/Spurs/OKC competing for it all. This underscores how monumental the task will be with our big fella.
Nevertheless if #kporzee brings his game inside paint action(a la Yao/Shaq), you're talking about a "death grip clutch running the triangle"<--------the system you hate. Once again not refuting what you see currently nor your visionary looking at #kporzee but I do find it intriguing no matter how hard a fan tries to prove their loyalty it doesn't equate to wins on the court or a player magically getting better. Facts are Facts and results are results.
As good as he's been, he's a project
the coaching staff can't turn a player into something they are not. Porzingis doesn't have a big mans game, he seems to think like that of a perimeter player and right now he is not that great at that either. What needs to be figured out is, exactly what does he do offensively, or what can he do consistently. So far he can hit some open shots, but lets be real, there is just one dominant player that shoots from the perimeter. That is steph curry. I just don't think you can have a 7'3 dominant big who does not play like a true big. and certainly won't have one who shoots 30 foot shots..
I think his somewhat quick start has thrown people a bit. I think he would benefit from some simple things like learning how to hold post position and get a good shot off from that first, instead of flying in from 25 feet over the back of rebounders...
simple big man skills first, figure out what he can do, and then go from there..
Alan Hahn was on ESPN radio and he's better on radio than he is on the post game, doesn't BS you or sugar coat it on radio. Said the Knicks were soft and got bullied by the Celts yesterday, he said the Celts came in with the intention of sending a message to Porzingis that if you want easy points in the paint we're going to make you pay for them, says they undercut him twice and after that he wanted no part of trying to score in the paint. Maybe I'm wrong about KP being able to handle the physical play of the NBA right now, maybe he does need more size and bulk and he's not ready to be Yao or Shaq in the post quite yet.
As far as the triangle, I said in the pre-season if the Knicks struggle PJ would be an idiot not to scrap it but they have played well enough to not abandon it quite yet but I wonder if not making the playoffs and finishing with a less than .500 record changes his mind about the triangle?
Another thing he said which you say all the time is don't expect any trades at the deadline, he said he talks to teams all the time and the Knicks don't have anything they want other than Porzingis. Also says we probably won't make the playoffs since it will probably take at least a .500 record to get the 8th seed this year. You can listen to the show below.
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/newyork/play?id=14706854
Good Point .. We know Porzingis is not a BUST!
I just never want to select a player out the draft 99% of NBA fans are clueless of again.
We had 50 games to evaluate Porzingis offense, defense, and rebounding .. how do we fit it into the triangle-offense to create success during the all-star break .. so Pozingis can get playoff experience as a rookie??? Oh Porzingis will be at the ALL-Star game
I still believe Porzingis should come off the bench .. Plus only be in twin-tower lineup with Rolo then O'Quinn in each of his rookie games .. to learn how to fit into the low-post from a C/F teammate in the majority lineups this season ..
to bad .. im not the coach
yea, he was really given the starting job, and I am not sure he actually won or earned that spot. The problem with him is I or probably many others have no idea what he is, or what he actually does on a consistent basis. as you said, he is not a bust by any means, he will be a good player.. but you still have to accurately assess players and then properly develop them..
early in the year I was hearing knicks fans say things like "best pick since Ewing", Best knick in many years, Future superstar.. I mean jeez.... can we figure out what his game is first? LOL
So True .. Porzingis did not earn to be a starter, nor did he earn playing more than 24 minute in each game.
I put all the blame on our front-office GM/Coach the ZEN master!
It was Phil idea n doing that put Porzingis in the starter n finisher lineup .. as if Porzingis has NBA experience to make great decision when the game is on the line the final 7 minutes of the game.
Rookie Porzingis would have been coming off the bench if he was drafted by any of the teams that had a .500 record at All-Star break.
Porzingis suppose to be on the bench at the start of each game watching our opponent starters skills n talent, plus be on the bench the final 7 minutes watching the "do's n don'ts" at the end of each game.
If Porzingis was on our 2nd unit lineup we would still be using that lineup n probably be a .500 team during all-star break .. Porzingis, Quinn, D.Will, Gallo, Grant.
Phil just threw this young foreign player Porzingis on the court against NBA starters each night, and each night our 7.3 Porzingis has been getting further n further on the perimeter and far from any paint duties. Plus where is Porzingis chemistry with teammates???
I was just comparing KAT and KP6 shot distribution and KP6 takes 27% of his shots from the 3 pt line and 29% under the basket. KAT takes 43% of his shots under the basket and 6% of his shot are 3s. Surprising thing to me is KP6 is not as efficient as I would have thought close in avg'ing about 1pt per shot from either close in or from 3 pt range. Kat is great close in avg'ing 1.25pts and good from 3 pt range making 20/55 of this 3s.
I think the shot stat tells you KP has a long way to go in either developing a post game or becoming an elite shooter. I hate to say it but the kid is a bit overhyped on the offensive end. He'll get better but KAT is the next superstar in this league and KP has a lot to learn.
I think the shot stat tells you KP has a long way to go in either developing a post game or becoming an elite shooter. I hate to say it but the kid is a bit overhyped on the offensive end. He'll get better but KAT is the next superstar in this league and KP has a lot to learn.
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I'd wager to say #kporzee's efficiency numbers aren't far off from Turner/Portis/Jokic/Kaminsky/Okafor(who don't have quite the Usage% that #kporzee has), you're correct he needs diversity to his game(starting with coming inside more) mixed with improved efficiency.
But how about clearly separating himself from those 3 first before trying to out duel Towns for the Class' best.
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jimkcchief88
All Star
The problem is the NBA is not a teaching league esp. when it comes to big men. You are supposed to learn post moves in college. That's why I hate drafting these Euros. That part of the game is not emphasized over there and it's tough to pick it up on the fly against NBA talent. KP6 is not a bust for sure, but is his ceiling as high as Phil thinks???? I would hire Dirks shooting coach to teach KP6 how to work around the elbow and in. With KP6 length and shooting touch he should be unstoppable down there. Seems a waste to have a guy with that size camped outside launching threes that lead to long rebounds and runout layups for the other team.