The Dragon
Benchwarmer
What we were doing when we were 21-21 (or was it 22-22), and why we could not continue doing it.... the team was amazing, all were contributing...... what were the keys and why we don't have them anymore!!!!
What we were doing right towards mid of season?
- Thread starter The Dragon
- Start date
Honestly, I don't know the answer, but I will speculate on it.
I think it has a lot more to do with defense than with offense. I think our offense, while up and down this season, has not been all that much worse from late January onwards when this team's record fell apart than it was when we were a 0.500 team up until mid January or so.
I think our defense, specifically our perimeter defense, is the main thing that declined alongside our terrible record over the last 2 months. If I remember correctly, the first couple months of the season we were one of the top rated defenses in the league against the 3-point shot. I'd also say that we were doing a better job earlier in the season playing help defense against penetrating guards who inevitably were going to drive past Calderon and Afflalo at the perimeter. We were definitely allowing a few less points per game the first couple months of the season compared to the last couple months.
Again, this is just my two cents on picking one specific aspect of our team that is considerably worse now than when we were playing 0.500 basketball. Clearly, there a lot of factors that went into this team falling apart.
Just looked it up.
In the month of November (15 games), opponents shot 28% from 3 against us. In December (15 games), opponents shot 32% from 3 against us.
In the month of January (17 games), opponents shot 39% from 3 against us. In the month of February (11 games), opponents shot 35% from 3 against us.
So, at least it wasn't my imagination that our perimeter defense got considerably worse as the season went along. I'm sure other people have broader ideas about why we hit the toilet as the season went along.
In the month of November (15 games), opponents shot 28% from 3 against us. In December (15 games), opponents shot 32% from 3 against us.
In the month of January (17 games), opponents shot 39% from 3 against us. In the month of February (11 games), opponents shot 35% from 3 against us.
So, at least it wasn't my imagination that our perimeter defense got considerably worse as the season went along. I'm sure other people have broader ideas about why we hit the toilet as the season went along.
Alright, I've officially fallen down the hole of looking at split stats between wins and losses. I preface this by saying I don't think stats fully explain why this team fell apart, but they are interesting to review.
One fun split stat regarding Melo, who when he has played we have a 27 - 32 record (we are 0 - 7 without him).
In our 27 wins, Melo averages 22.6 points doing it on 47% shooting from the floor.
In our 32 losses in which he has played, Melo averages 21.2 points, but has done it shooting only 40% from the floor in those games.
Even more striking, and I think people have discussed this before, Afflalo has shot 52% from the floor in our 22 wins in which he has played and only 41% from the floor in our 34 losses in which he has played.
Even better split stat, Afflalo has shot 52% (!!!!!) from 3 point range in our 22 wins in which he has played (3.7 attempts per game) and only 29% from 3 point range in our 34 losses in which he has played (3.4 attempts per game).
One fun split stat regarding Melo, who when he has played we have a 27 - 32 record (we are 0 - 7 without him).
In our 27 wins, Melo averages 22.6 points doing it on 47% shooting from the floor.
In our 32 losses in which he has played, Melo averages 21.2 points, but has done it shooting only 40% from the floor in those games.
Even more striking, and I think people have discussed this before, Afflalo has shot 52% from the floor in our 22 wins in which he has played and only 41% from the floor in our 34 losses in which he has played.
Even better split stat, Afflalo has shot 52% (!!!!!) from 3 point range in our 22 wins in which he has played (3.7 attempts per game) and only 29% from 3 point range in our 34 losses in which he has played (3.4 attempts per game).
Good posts htr10. To me it's been the falloff in bench production with LT and Gallo playing no where like they were playing earlier in the season, inconsistent playing time for DWill and Quinn has hurt and Melo's injury was also a setback.
Seems every game we lose it's one thing or another, one game they can't stop the other team from having a layup drill, the next game they can't stop the 3 or Melo shoots like crap where a couple of made buckets by him would have ensured a W.
One consistent theme is Calderons porous D, he has to go but unfortunately Grant and Gallo are worse PGs so you can't turn over the starters job to them.
Seems every game we lose it's one thing or another, one game they can't stop the other team from having a layup drill, the next game they can't stop the 3 or Melo shoots like crap where a couple of made buckets by him would have ensured a W.
One consistent theme is Calderons porous D, he has to go but unfortunately Grant and Gallo are worse PGs so you can't turn over the starters job to them.
The Dragon
Benchwarmer
I agree AA was a kind of important factor, he represents the other scorer which we count on, JC is the same, he can't defend period. but again, why we went downhill? why Gallo, AA LT DW all slowed down.... what happened, where is the turning point? a decision that has been taken by the managment to change something there and the players didn't like it? something brought the players down... big time. why to have multiple players stop producing at the same time..... when we were winning, you think that all the players where in sync and doing their best, to have everybody stop producing in offence and defense at the same time has to do with something..... i don't know, i am just baffled
Someone need to remind Phil, he was given a 37 win team that he made into a 17 win team to get a top-3 pick.
40 games into the season are when the winning teams start stepping-up their game by bringing it every-night ..
We have 4 starter players that don't get back on defense when opponents go into a fast transition tempo.
Plus Melo n Afflalo poor defensive-effort match-up to Calderon poor defense.
When a player has a 40% shooting night after night u expect the player to play relentless defense
When we stop running the all bench lineup, and we stop running a 10 to 11 man rotation ..
When we cut the rotation down to 9 players plus lowered Rolo playing time minutes so certain starter players could get extra minutes we became a 27-40 record team.
From having a 22 - 22 record to 23 - 33 record to a 25-38 record to a 27-40 record.
We were not ready to give two no-defensive players Melo & Afflalo 22 minutes in the 2nd half of every game.
Our bench lineup .. Grant, Gallo, Lance, D.Will, and O'Quinn, had a confidence rhythm lineup with a growing transition tempo. Taking that lineup apart to add slow walking ballers Melo n Afflalo to the bench lineup was DOOM!
donchris
Next season, keep waiting
Everyone signed for next season is pretty good. That piece of it is not a bad roster.
Carmelo Anthony
Robin Lopez
Arron Afflalo
Jose Calderon
Derrick Williams
Kristaps Porzingis
This is a pretty good core. The one thing about keeping Rambis is we can give this roster time to jell and to follow through with the system. I would like to see Afflalo come off of the bench. That would make room for us to sign a top shooting guard and spend the rest on top quality back ups. Respectability may be right around the corner.
Carmelo Anthony
Robin Lopez
Arron Afflalo
Jose Calderon
Derrick Williams
Kristaps Porzingis
This is a pretty good core. The one thing about keeping Rambis is we can give this roster time to jell and to follow through with the system. I would like to see Afflalo come off of the bench. That would make room for us to sign a top shooting guard and spend the rest on top quality back ups. Respectability may be right around the corner.
Of those 6 you listed, only Melo, Robin Lopez, and Porzingis are definitely going to be here next season. Afflalo and Derrick Williams may both decline player options to try to get more money free agency and PJ may likely use the stretch provision on Calderon's contract to get him off the team.
Being the subject change to next season .. our 68 game performance show we need 3 new starters for next season if the plan is making the playoff
1) Calderon is a decent 20 minute backup PG
2) Afflalo is a 18 minute scorer off the bench
3) KP is a low-post project
I want to keep all 4 of our young players (Grant Gallo KP Quinn) for next season
I want all 4 young players to learn to GELL in the summer games with Wroten n Fredette
ISO-Melo crunch-time performance gave us a lot of LOSSES .. I hope the trade rumors on Melo in the offseason become true .. Rambis need to give-up being a NBA head-coach n top assistant coach
The Dragon
Benchwarmer
My question was, what happened?? why Oquin used to play hard and defend in a very good way to the player we see now..... Lance, Gallo, DW, even Melo was defending his ass out the first period..... then what? what was the turning point......
donchris
Next season, keep waiting
This is a great assessment. Knicks have always had a terrible second unit and starters that look like they should be the second unit, at least in resent memory. I agree there's definitely value in trading Melo, but it seems like Phil is the problem. He's trying to coach from the front office. Why not abandon the triangle and bring in Tibs or David Blatt?
I'm certain the triangle can be effective if utilized properly, but this generation of players seem to have a low IQ and look for systems that are more conducive to scoring. Rondo's concerns about the offense may be more prevalent than we know. If that's the case then we should not expect much from this team for the rest of Jackson's reign.
Whoever was factoring on Afflalo factoring heavily into our season towards success, didn't do enough factoring of player's history. Listen it's real simple we caught mad breaks first half of the season.
We played OKC no Durant
We played Wash no Bradley Beal
We played Bucks no Jabari Parker
We played Charlotte no Al Jefferson and no Kidd Gilchrist
We played Rockets no Dwight Howard
We played Bulls no Pau Gasol
We played Utah no Derrick Favors
We played Philly 3 times before we played 44gms and a host of teams who were under .500 before the midway point. Add to the fact we have an overall trash roster and suspect system, there were no real indications we were going to be anything but a bad team. The wheels came off after our win in Utah game 44.
Afflalo(average)
Lopez(average)
Williams
O'Quinn
Seraphin
Sasha
All pretty terrible signings considering the cupboards were bare for Phil to restock
We played OKC no Durant
We played Wash no Bradley Beal
We played Bucks no Jabari Parker
We played Charlotte no Al Jefferson and no Kidd Gilchrist
We played Rockets no Dwight Howard
We played Bulls no Pau Gasol
We played Utah no Derrick Favors
We played Philly 3 times before we played 44gms and a host of teams who were under .500 before the midway point. Add to the fact we have an overall trash roster and suspect system, there were no real indications we were going to be anything but a bad team. The wheels came off after our win in Utah game 44.
Afflalo(average)
Lopez(average)
Williams
O'Quinn
Seraphin
Sasha
All pretty terrible signings considering the cupboards were bare for Phil to restock
One thing with being a 17 win team and not being able to sign top tier FA's is PJ wasn't able to sign Greg Monroe to a max contract. Moose is not having a bad year but that Bucks team is underachieving and he's what we said about not being worth a max contract.
This off-season we might get a similar blessing with a mediocre Knicks team not being able to sign a top FA or two, maybe Melo says trade me and the Knicks finally have an asset they can trade to do a rebuild from the bottom up. Only thing about that approach is Knicks fans may have to accept another decade of losing while they rebuild. Not what anyone expected when they hired Phil Jackson.
I think its more definite then 'might'... what FA wants to come to ny and play with an 'old' Me-Lo, and mr 1for11 mr lavtian...I agree the best scenario is for Me-Lo to request a trade, but he's not going to a Milwaukee or a Sacramento, he will want to go to a Cleveland or a Miami (maybe), so the 1st rounder we get will be the 20th or so pick... we are snookered till 2020...
A three team deal with a team like Boston or the Sixers would net picks sooner than 2020. The Sixers may be ripe to start getting some good players instead of tanking this off season with Colangelo on board. Or Melo to the Cavs, Love to BOS, picks to NYK and cap space.
The Dragon
Benchwarmer
Do you feel that we play well against good teams because the players actually try to do their best and actually play..... and we suck against other teams because the players feel its a lost season?
my point is, we have the right pieces, but we don't have the right mindset.... true or false?
my point is, we have the right pieces, but we don't have the right mindset.... true or false?