Knicks trade Willy Gomez for Johnny O?Bryant and two 2nd round picks

Paul1355

All Star
?Knicks C Willy Hernangomez looks like his wish will be granted as the team is finalizing a deal to send him to the Hornets, per ESPN's Ian Begley.

In return for Hernangomez, the Knicks will receive PF Johnny O'Bryant and two future second-round picks, according to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski.?

It seems people are mixed about this deal being that O?Bryant is on an expiring contract while willy was in the second year of a super cheap 4 year deal.
The coaching staff barely played him in what is now a lost season. We stunted his development, however the flip side is his defense was piss poor when he played and oquinn clearly was the better backup.

Getting two second round picks is a decent future haul..I just hope O?Bryant can show us something.

Get assets, rebuild...

Thoughts?


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mafra

Legend
O?Bryant is a nobody. Hard to get excited about the 58th pick in the 2021 draft.

With the KP injury.... Knicks have golden path to build up WHg?s trade value... maybe get more after season.... unless we need these picks to trade for another target ... this move basically same as if the team flat out released him. Late second rounder can be bought for cash....
 
O?Bryant is a nobody. Hard to get excited about the 58th pick in the 2021 draft.

With the KP injury.... Knicks have golden path to build up WHg?s trade value... maybe get more after season.... unless we need these picks to trade for another target ... this move basically same as if the team flat out released him. Late second rounder can be bought for cash....

Agreed. Our front office proved its lack of worth with this deal. We could not have gotten less for WHG.
 

Paul1355

All Star
O?Bryant is a nobody. Hard to get excited about the 58th pick in the 2021 draft.

With the KP injury.... Knicks have golden path to build up WHg?s trade value... maybe get more after season.... unless we need these picks to trade for another target ... this move basically same as if the team flat out released him. Late second rounder can be bought for cash....

Hornets have been out of playoff race for some time now so the picks shouldn?t be in the late 50s..the point is that they got two picks that they can package later on or hope for the best by getting undervalued talent tricking out of first round..

Your point on the Golden opportunity is true though, this was a chance to play willy


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mafra

Legend
Hornets have been out of playoff race for some time now so the picks shouldn?t be in the late 50s..the point is that they got two picks that they can package later on or hope for the best by getting undervalued talent tricking out of first round..

Your point on the Golden opportunity is true though, this was a chance to play willy


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Picks aren?t for 2-3 years. Not even like we can do a draft and stash.... what good does an extra second in 2020 and 2021 really do for KP?

I guess with the KP injury, we can tank the rest of this year and next.... hope we sign KP to a more team friendly extension and hit on 2 lottery picks.... then, sign a 2019 free agent.... and have a few second rounders in hand for 2020 and 2021? Is this the new plan?
 

tiger0330

Legend
Those future 2nd rounders are more trade chips than anything else. O'Bryant is also only 23 so the Knicks might keep him as part of a youth movement rather than waiving him esp with KP and WHG gone now. Crazy the timing of KP injury, right before the trade deadline which pushed the FO from potential buyers at the deadline into sellers.
 

mafra

Legend
Knicks are waiving O?Bryant. He?s just a body to make numbers work.

I have no issue dealing WHG, but it irks me Knicks sold him when his value was lowest. We should?ve moved him right after we acquired Kanter.... or, we play him now with KP out and then trade him.

I would prefer a first rounder over 2 second rounders, especially picks in 3-4 years.
 

mafra

Legend
Another thing, this deal was clearly in the works before KP went down. So, why pull the trigger so quickly after the news? Trade deadline not until manana.... why not at least try to bluff CHA and act like the injury has changed things and see if MJ ups the offer? Just makes no sense how this went down.
 

mafra

Legend
(NY Post)

Willy Hernangomez got his wish.

The day after his close friend Kristaps Porzingis was felled by a devastating season-ending ACL tear, Hernangomez is moving on to Charlotte, a source confirmed.

The Knicks will got back two second-round picks and Johnny O?Bryant, a 24-year-old forward they will waive.

The Knicks already have two second-round picks this June, and the ones received from Charlotte are for 2020 and 2021 ? years they didn?t have second-round picks. They were seeking either a first-round pick or a young player to develop ? a diamond in the rough.

?The Knicks are trying to find a Terry Rozier before he becomes Terry Rozier,? one NBA scout said of the Knicks? thinking.

O?Bryant is not their Rozier.

Team president Steve Mills recommended the Knicks draft Hernangomez in the same 2015 draft they took Porzingis, buying the pick from the Sixers at No. 35. Mills felt he?d fit the triangle.

?I don?t dislike him, but I also don?t think anyone is giving up a first for him at the deadline,? one NBA scout told The Post about Hernangomez. ?I thought they?d wait and set their sights higher with getting a late first on draft night, depending on who is left. He?s a decent backup center, but it?s a league that is now transitioning away from bigs who don?t shoot 3s. And I wouldn?t go so far as to say he can score a lot. Hernangomez has the ability to score against backups. But he?s not a guy you have to worry about double teaming or anything. If he were that good, he?d be playing for the Knicks.?
 

tiger0330

Legend
ESPN Insider trade grades.


The deal

Knicks get:[FONT=&quot] Forward Johnny O'Bryant, two future second-round picks[/FONT]
Hornets get:[FONT=&quot] Center Willy Hernangomez[/FONT]

Charlotte Hornets:[FONT=&quot] B[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]At first blush, this trade doesn't look like much[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of a win for Hernangomez, whose representatives recently expressed to the Knick[/FONT][FONT=&quot]s their displeasure with his reduced role this season according to ESPN's Ian Begley. Having started 22 games and played 18.4 minutes per game last season, when he made the All-Rookie First Team, Hernangomez had been limited to 233 minutes total so far this year after New York added Enes Kanter as a starting center.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]So the Knicks fulfilled Hernangomez's wishes ... an[/FONT][FONT=&quot]d traded him to a team with an even more crowded depth chart at center, where Charlotte already has a player with extensive starting experience (Cody Zeller) backing up Dwight Howard.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]My guess is the Hornets see Hernangomez and Zeller as mobile enough to play with each other. Hernangomez has played occasionally at power forward. According to NBA Advanced Stats, he played 215 min[/FONT][FONT=&quot]utes in 2016-17 with one of New York's other centers (Joakim Noah, Kyle O'Quinn and Marshall Plumlee). And Zeller began his career playing power forward next to Al Jefferson and Bismack Biyombo.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Nonetheless, an Hernangomez-Zeller duo would be light on perimeter shooting for a modern frontcourt. Hernangomez has made just 29 shots outside the paint in his career, according to Second Spectrum data powered by NBA Advanced Stats, shooting such attempts at a 33.3 percent clip. Zeller ha[/FONT][FONT=&quot]s made 28 of them over the same timeframe, shooting 34.6 percent. Howard, at 34, has actually made more shots outside the paint the last two seasons than either of his backups, though at a weaker percentage (28.3 percent).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If Charlotte finds Hernangomez and Zeller can't play together, that would be disappointing for the player but not the end of the world for the team. After all, Hernangomez could still be injury insurance for Zeller, who missed nearly two months after undergoing surgery to repair a torn menisc[/FONT][FONT=&quot]us in early December. Adding Howard meant the Hornets were able to stay afloa[/FONT][FONT=&quot]t[/FONT][FONT=&quot] without Zeller after going 3-17 in games he missed during 2016-17. Still, with [/FONT][FONT=&quot]O[/FONT][FONT=&quot]'Bryant serving as the third center, Charlotte has been outscored by 7.2 points per 100 possessions with both Howard and Zeller on the bench. Hernangomez should [/FONT][FONT=&quot]be able to help there.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In the long run, Hernangomez could be much more valuable to the Hornets when Howard's contract ends after the 2018-19 season. By that point, Hernangomez will still be playing on the four-year deal he signed with the Knicks last summer, which pays him just $1.5 million in 2018-19 and $1.7 million in 2019-20. For a Charlotte team skirting the luxury tax, having cost-controlled talent like Hernangomez is hugely valuable.[/FONT]

New York Knicks:[FONT=&quot] C[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It's hard to blame anybody for Hernangomez falling out of favor in New York. He's played well when given minutes, shooting a higher percentage on 2-point attempts than he did as a rookie (60.5 percent) though rebounding worse. The Knicks didn't exactly plan to add a center ahead of him, but Kanter was the logical return in the Carmelo Anthony trade and played well in the role Hernangomez[/FONT][FONT=&quot] had filled as a rebounder and finisher next to Kristaps Porzingis. (Alas, that role won't be available to Kanter either for the remainder of the season after Porzingis tore his ACL Tuesday.)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]What does surprise me is Begley's reporting that New York is still looking for a taker for backup center Kyle O'Quinn ahead of Thursday's trade d[/FONT][FONT=&quot]eadline. Had the Knicks been able to trade O'Quinn, they could simply have moved Hernangomez back into the rotation and everybody probably would have ended up happy. My original thought about this deal was it suggested New York had concluded there wasn't a reasonable deal for O'Quinn to be had before the deadline.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It's also possible O'Quinn could have resolved the dilemma by decli[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ning his $4.3 million player option for 2018-19 and hitting free agency this summer. Kanter also has a player option for 2018-19, though since his is so rich ($18.6 million), he's likely to exercise it. That does mean the Knicks now have only Noah signed to play center beyond the 2018-19 season, when Hernangomez still would have been on his minimum deal.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]One interesting question is whether New York's thinking was informed by Porzingis' untimely ACL injury. As I noted, one possible impact of the injury could be Porzingis moving to center more quickly than the Knicks had planned. In that case, the value of any center would be lower to the organization, let alone one like Hernangomez who spe[/FONT][FONT=&quot]cifically offers complementary skills to Porzingis.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Down the road, New York could reap value from the second-round picks acquired in this trade. Pushing the picks out a couple [/FONT][FONT=&quot]of years has upside for the Knicks because it means they'll come after Kemba Walker reaches f[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ree agency in the summer of 2019. Even if Walker returns to the Hornets, the enor[/FONT][FONT=&quot]mous raise he'll command will make it even more difficult for Charlotte to build aro[/FONT][FONT=&quot]und him. So I think there's a good chance the picks New York get in 2020 and 2021 [/FONT][FONT=&quot](according to Shams Charania of Yahoo! Sports) end up being high in the round.​[/FONT]
The deal

Knicks get:[FONT=&quot] Forward Johnny O'Bryant, two future second-round picks[/FONT]
Hornets get:[FONT=&quot] Center Willy Hernangomez[/FONT]

Charlotte Hornets:[FONT=&quot] B[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]At first blush, this trade doesn't look like much[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of a win for Hernangomez, whose representatives recently expressed to the Knick[/FONT][FONT=&quot]s their displeasure with his reduced role this season according to ESPN's Ian Begley. Having started 22 games and played 18.4 minutes per game last season, when he made the All-Rookie First Team, Hernangomez had been limited to 233 minutes total so far this year after New York added Enes Kanter as a starting center.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]So the Knicks fulfilled Hernangomez's wishes ... an[/FONT][FONT=&quot]d traded him to a team with an even more crowded depth chart at center, where Charlotte already has a player with extensive starting experience (Cody Zeller) backing up Dwight Howard.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]My guess is the Hornets see Hernangomez and Zeller as mobile enough to play with each other. Hernangomez has played occasionally at power forward. According to NBA Advanced Stats, he played 215 min[/FONT][FONT=&quot]utes in 2016-17 with one of New York's other centers (Joakim Noah, Kyle O'Quinn and Marshall Plumlee). And Zeller began his career playing power forward next to Al Jefferson and Bismack Biyombo.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Nonetheless, an Hernangomez-Zeller duo would be light on perimeter shooting for a modern frontcourt. Hernangomez has made just 29 shots outside the paint in his career, according to Second Spectrum data powered by NBA Advanced Stats, shooting such attempts at a 33.3 percent clip. Zeller ha[/FONT][FONT=&quot]s made 28 of them over the same timeframe, shooting 34.6 percent. Howard, at 34, has actually made more shots outside the paint the last two seasons than either of his backups, though at a weaker percentage (28.3 percent).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If Charlotte finds Hernangomez and Zeller can't play together, that would be disappointing for the player but not the end of the world for the team. After all, Hernangomez could still be injury insurance for Zeller, who missed nearly two months after undergoing surgery to repair a torn menisc[/FONT][FONT=&quot]us in early December. Adding Howard meant the Hornets were able to stay afloa[/FONT][FONT=&quot]t[/FONT][FONT=&quot] without Zeller after going 3-17 in games he missed during 2016-17. Still, with [/FONT][FONT=&quot]O[/FONT][FONT=&quot]'Bryant serving as the third center, Charlotte has been outscored by 7.2 points per 100 possessions with both Howard and Zeller on the bench. Hernangomez should [/FONT][FONT=&quot]be able to help there.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In the long run, Hernangomez could be much more valuable to the Hornets when Howard's contract ends after the 2018-19 season. By that point, Hernangomez will still be playing on the four-year deal he signed with the Knicks last summer, which pays him just $1.5 million in 2018-19 and $1.7 million in 2019-20. For a Charlotte team skirting the luxury tax, having cost-controlled talent like Hernangomez is hugely valuable.[/FONT]

New York Knicks:[FONT=&quot] C[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It's hard to blame anybody for Hernangomez falling out of favor in New York. He's played well when given minutes, shooting a higher percentage on 2-point attempts than he did as a rookie (60.5 percent) though rebounding worse. The Knicks didn't exactly plan to add a center ahead of him, but Kanter was the logical return in the Carmelo Anthony trade and played well in the role Hernangomez[/FONT][FONT=&quot] had filled as a rebounder and finisher next to Kristaps Porzingis. (Alas, that role won't be available to Kanter either for the remainder of the season after Porzingis tore his ACL Tuesday.)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]What does surprise me is Begley's reporting that New York is still looking for a taker for backup center Kyle O'Quinn ahead of Thursday's trade d[/FONT][FONT=&quot]eadline. Had the Knicks been able to trade O'Quinn, they could simply have moved Hernangomez back into the rotation and everybody probably would have ended up happy. My original thought about this deal was it suggested New York had concluded there wasn't a reasonable deal for O'Quinn to be had before the deadline.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It's also possible O'Quinn could have resolved the dilemma by decli[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ning his $4.3 million player option for 2018-19 and hitting free agency this summer. Kanter also has a player option for 2018-19, though since his is so rich ($18.6 million), he's likely to exercise it. That does mean the Knicks now have only Noah signed to play center beyond the 2018-19 season, when Hernangomez still would have been on his minimum deal.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]One interesting question is whether New York's thinking was informed by Porzingis' untimely ACL injury. As I noted, one possible impact of the injury could be Porzingis moving to center more quickly than the Knicks had planned. In that case, the value of any center would be lower to the organization, let alone one like Hernangomez who spe[/FONT][FONT=&quot]cifically offers complementary skills to Porzingis.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Down the road, New York could reap value from the second-round picks acquired in this trade. Pushing the picks out a couple [/FONT][FONT=&quot]of years has upside for the Knicks because it means they'll come after Kemba Walker reaches f[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ree agency in the summer of 2019. Even if Walker returns to the Hornets, the enor[/FONT][FONT=&quot]mous raise he'll command will make it even more difficult for Charlotte to build aro[/FONT][FONT=&quot]und him. So I think there's a good chance the picks New York get in 2020 and 2021 [/FONT][FONT=&quot](according to Shams Charania of Yahoo! Sports) end up being high in the round.​[/FONT]
 

mafra

Legend
Will be funny if both KOQ and Kanter elect to test free agent waters. One way to clear up 4-man logjam at C is to force Noah to walk away from team, dump WHG for peanuts and let KOQ and Kanter walk. This opens up spot for Kornet to start? Lol.
 

mafra

Legend
By trading away Hernangomez, the Knicks not only eased their glut at center, but are replenishing their bushel of draft picks going forward.

"We were without second round picks in 2020 and 2021 - we value first- and second-round picks," Perry said. "It's going to provide flexibility for us in a number of ways and we felt it was a good deal for us in our efforts to continue to build this team."

The Knicks were already planning for the future before the Porzingis injury and will now focus even more on adding draft picks and flexibility while also playing their younger guys more. They still have their first-round pick this year, plus two second-rounders.

"I think the fact that we were able to get two [picks] in a deal like that and really kind of fit to our plan of acquiring picks in those years," Perry said. "Historically with this franchise, there have not been a lot of picks involved and we talked about wanting to build something sustainable and I think one of the most important parts of that is having a cupboard full of picks if you will. And I think this deal allowed us to do that. We have all of our picks in place and we can add other young athletes or use the picks in other ways to obtain talent.?

"There's going to be an opportunity for a lot of the young players to get out there and show what they can do," Perry said. "We've got a couple of our guys who have performed very well in our G-League franchise that will be having an opportunity now to come up and play in Isaiah Hicks and Luke Kornet at various times throughout the remainder of the season. They've earned that opportunity and it would be a good opportunity for us to see just how good they can be for this franchise moving forward. The rest of the guys that are in the locker room, it's an opportunity for them to grow and play and maybe their roles get expanded now that such an integral part of the team is out."
 
supposely noah or his agent said they would agree to a buyout but not for 1cent less then the 72m he signed for...

Fine. He gets to finish his career wearing a suit and sitting behind our bench. We stink this next 2 seasons with or without him on the roster.
 

tiger0330

Legend
Fine. He gets to finish his career wearing a suit and sitting behind our bench. We stink this next 2 seasons with or without him on the roster.

We're down 2 bigs, dress him and play him. If he has any pride and wants to continue his career beyond 2020 he plays hard and for his next contract.
 
We're down 2 bigs, dress him and play him. If he has any pride and wants to continue his career beyond 2020 he plays hard and for his next contract.

Sure, that could work too. Maybe Noah will get worked up and just straight up murder Hornacek as he comes off the court one game.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
If dum dum coach Hornacek would have tandem Noah n WHG to add in the rotation lineups the Knicks would not have had all these foolish Losses on the road.
The Knicks PG problem was not half as terrible as the Knicks WEAK frontcourt big man rotation.
The so call future star KP n Kanter does not have a winning bone in their body they are the worst tandem of big men a team want on the court as closers .. their defense stinks.
There were games where KOQuinn by himself as the only bigman in the lineup were more impresive on both sides of the court than both KP n Kanter ..
I notice Quinn's playingtime minutes kept getting decrease as the season went on .. signs of the Knicks front office and headcoach were deliberately TANKING!
The Knicks never played their 19 yr old rookie PG in lineups with another PG .. Yet Knick fans keep comparing Frank with Mavs DSJ and Jazz Mitchell .. The two drafted PG that were selected after Frank who started their NBA season being tandem in the backcourt with their teams PG in their lineup.

The Knick fans forgot the bum frontcourt lineup of the past of having NO DEFENSE Melo n Amare in the lineup blaming all their Losses on the PG play. Until a D.League PG Lin-Sanity shut them up. Kanter n KP = Melo n Amare .. that's why the Knicks pile up losses especially on the road.
KP has never been a 30 minute player in his career !!!
 

Paul1355

All Star
Picks aren?t for 2-3 years. Not even like we can do a draft and stash.... what good does an extra second in 2020 and 2021 really do for KP?

I guess with the KP injury, we can tank the rest of this year and next.... hope we sign KP to a more team friendly extension and hit on 2 lottery picks.... then, sign a 2019 free agent.... and have a few second rounders in hand for 2020 and 2021? Is this the new plan?

The plan is to acquire players that are 25 and younger and get draft picks. We can hate the moves but for the most part the Knicks have been consistent if their vision. They simply want a young athletic team that can develop. Now trading Gomez was more of responding to his personal request more than anything else. Hopefully we can resign oquinn on the cheap but we will see. I really liked Kornet in his first game on both ends of the floor.


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