If Garnett goes to the C's do we part with Lee?

If the Celtics land Garnett, which is all of a sudden looking pretty likely, do we reconsider parting with Lee or Balk if Sac insists. If the Celtics land Garnett than they are the front runners in the East ( atleast on paper) and we'll have to make a move to solidify us. I think if we were to land Ron that makes us just as dangerous team as Boston with Garnett, but would Sac realize that we would be somewhat desperate, and raise the asking price for Ron? Look I love David and Renaldo, and my first preference ofcourse is that we keep them, but if this trade goes down then Boston atleast has the division on lock, and truthfully I don't see another team in the East with that type of fire power. The Pistons to me aren't as imtimidating as they were w/ Big Ben, Chicago is talanted but doesn't have that one Superstar every team needs to be their leader, Cleveland I can see either repeating as East Champs or fighting for a playoff spot, Washington is one sprained ankle away from being a lottery team, Toronto has is hit or miss, Orlando has potential but again they are young and I don't think Rasad Lewis is going to make that big an impact ( I could be wrong), so to be honest if Garnett ends up in Boston, then a lot teams will be looking to make some moves, and our move should be to get Artest....but at what cost is the question? But if we land Ron and they get Garnett, then I think the whole lack of balance between the two conferences will be balnced out. This could make for a very interesting NBA season in the East

kg in the east. wow. that'll really mix things up, wouldn't it. thomas is not trading lee or balkman for artest; don't need to. check out stats on zebo-kg match-ups last season. exactly. if artest is here, he'll be guarding pierce or allen not kg. zebo got kg. you're overestimating this kg to boston deal. we are a lot closer to contending than boston even with allen and kg. don't panic,
it'll be ok.

Very true. We shouldn't worry too much.
If that deal goes through - Boston's bench will be nonexistent.
One injury to any of their big 3 and it's a wrap for their season!

Besides that means no Al Jefferson to school Curry like he did the last time they met!!! LOL

Isiah's Advocate 33 said:

If the Celtics land Garnett, which is all of a sudden looking pretty likely, do we reconsider parting with Lee or Balk if Sac insists. If the Celtics land Garnett than they are the front runners in the East ( atleast on paper) and we'll have to make a move to solidify us. I think if we were to land Ron that makes us just as dangerous team as Boston with Garnett, but would Sac realize that we would be somewhat desperate, and raise the asking price for Ron? Look I love David and Renaldo, and my first preference ofcourse is that we keep them, but if this trade goes down then Boston atleast has the division on lock, and truthfully I don't see another team in the East with that type of fire power. The Pistons to me aren't as imtimidating as they were w/ Big Ben, Chicago is talanted but doesn't have that one Superstar every team needs to be their leader, Cleveland I can see either repeating as East Champs or fighting for a playoff spot, Washington is one sprained ankle away from being a lottery team, Toronto has is hit or miss, Orlando has potential but again they are young and I don't think Rasad Lewis is going to make that big an impact ( I could be wrong), so to be honest if Garnett ends up in Boston, then a lot teams will be looking to make some moves, and our move should be to get Artest....but at what cost is the question? But if we land Ron and they get Garnett, then I think the whole lack of balance between the two conferences will be balnced out. This could make for a very interesting NBA season in the East

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Because they have Allen, it is very real possibility KG will go there now. Plus it's in the east and Doc is a good coach. Right now, honestly, I'd still take the Knicks over them because once they make the trade, they will also be depleted in other spots. And they'd have no bench. Plus, as good as their big three would be, the Knicks first 5 will be superior everynight. Curry, Zach, Q, JC, Steph would be a better 5 than what Boston could put out.

However, if the Knicks get Artest, it won't matter if they got Garnett at all. Only things stopping the Knicks from a finals appearance with Artest would be injury or plain disfunction as a team. No way the Knicks with Artest and the other starters and bench do not come out the east otherwise. Which is why I would tend to agree with you on Lee and Balkman... Tho I don't think it will take that regardless. It will be Nate for sure in the package, maybe another young player and someone to match the money.

Here's the trade

Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and a No. 1 pick to Minnesota to acquire Garnett.
Personally I think that's way too much young talent to give up for KG - but it's Ainge so I didn't expect too much


I have no idea who their bench is - Scalabrine?? lol

kg to boston sounds a hell of a lot like kobe to ny.

highesthigh said:

kg in the east. wow. that'll really mix things up, wouldn't it. thomas is not trading lee or balkman for artest; don't need to. check out stats on zebo-kg match-ups last season. exactly. if artest is here, he'll be guarding pierce or allen not kg. zebo got kg. you're overestimating this kg to boston deal. we are a lot closer to contending than boston even with allen and kg. don't panic,
it'll be ok.

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I know KG won't be gaurded by Artest ( however Artest can gaurd the 4) but they(C's) would have the best starting 5 in the East w/ KG. Now mind you that team is still a bit older than ours, but argubably better (on paper). Garnett made the Twolves into a contender w/ Cassell, Spree, Hudson, and Oliver Miller at the 5. Imagine Ray Allen and Paul Peirce, Delonte West, and any other player you can put a uniform on, this team is forreal! Doc is a great coach and will maximize this talented roster (or will be replaced, possibly another "Dream Job" for Larry). Zebo did have some good numbers against KG, but you're lying to yourself to say you would take him over KG. Ray Allen is what we want Jamal to become, and Paul Peirce really is a tough matchup for any of our players ( even my man Q) so that is the reason for wanting Ron. Steph, Q, Ron, Zach and Eddy, I think is a better team than Boston w/ KG, but sorry to say our current roster isn't. But as a fan of the league I would love to see both these trades pulled off, so the East can gain some respect again

Isiah's Advocate 33 said:

I know KG won't be gaurded by Artest ( however Artest can gaurd the 4) but they(C's) would have the best starting 5 in the East w/ KG. Now mind you that team is still a bit older than ours, but argubably better (on paper). Garnett made the Twolves into a contender w/ Cassell, Spree, Hudson, and Oliver Miller at the 5. Imagine Ray Allen and Paul Peirce, Delonte West, and any other player you can put a uniform on, this team is forreal! Doc is a great coach and will maximize this talented roster (or will be replaced, possibly another "Dream Job" for Larry). Zebo did have some good numbers against KG, but you're lying to yourself to say you would take him over KG. Ray Allen is what we want Jamal to become, and Paul Peirce really is a tough matchup for any of our players ( even my man Q) so that is the reason for wanting Ron. Steph, Q, Ron, Zach and Eddy, I think is a better team than Boston w/ KG, but sorry to say our current roster isn't. But as a fan of the league I would love to see both these trades pulled off, so the East can gain some respect again

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dude, i never lie to myself. yes i would take the zebo deal over the kg deal-for zebo we gave up francis and frey- thank you, bye... for kg you would have to gut your team- no thank you, later... yes i would love to have artest in the team but if you ask for lee or balkman- no thank you, later... i know the grass is always greener yadda yadda but you can't just look at incoming you also gotta look out for outgoing... and no boston's not going anywhere for awhile...

This is good for Boston right now becuase
1.Ainge needs to save his job
2. Boston hasnt been relevant in a very long time, i know a bunch of celts fan and its been bad there for while. This will atleast spark the fans to get back into celtic basketball.
3. Making that org better is always good for the NBA, boston is a huge market.

Why is this bad for Boston
1. There is no garuntee that the trio will work, and if things go bad, (1 injury to allen or pierce can change the complexity of everything) garnett can opt out next yr and bolt to LA. Then Boston is left with nothing, an aging allen and pierce.
2. Jefferson is a young star that u can mold and develop into a future star. so in the future when garnett is going down, jefferson is going up and the trade will look bad then for boston.
3. I dont think that garnett,allen, pierce in 1 yr will compete for a ring. they'll get to the playoffs, but it may take more than a yr to get the right pieces around them, PG and a bench.

Isiah's Advocate 33 said:

I know KG won't be gaurded by Artest ( however Artest can gaurd the 4) but they(C's) would have the best starting 5 in the East w/ KG. Now mind you that team is still a bit older than ours, but argubably better (on paper). Garnett made the Twolves into a contender w/ Cassell, Spree, Hudson, and Oliver Miller at the 5. Imagine Ray Allen and Paul Peirce, Delonte West, and any other player you can put a uniform on, this team is forreal! Doc is a great coach and will maximize this talented roster (or will be replaced, possibly another "Dream Job" for Larry). Zebo did have some good numbers against KG, but you're lying to yourself to say you would take him over KG. Ray Allen is what we want Jamal to become, and Paul Peirce really is a tough matchup for any of our players ( even my man Q) so that is the reason for wanting Ron. Steph, Q, Ron, Zach and Eddy, I think is a better team than Boston w/ KG, but sorry to say our current roster isn't. But as a fan of the league I would love to see both these trades pulled off, so the East can gain some respect again

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trin good point - they gave up most of their young players other than perkins and west. they have a subpar team outside of the 3. allen is shaky and pierce i dont think has had injury free seasons of late. of course on paper theyre good enough to win the atlantic and east, but so are we and we havent yet. doc rivers is way worse a coach than isiah so i dont think just landing kg guarantees them anything.

If the celtics get KG then they are an automatic playoff team. How far they make it depends on health and KG's leadership. Chemistry will also be question since they all come off of 20+ ppg seasons. Paul Pierce has to relenquish some of his shots and the team to KG. KG has to be the leader of this team because not only is he more capable but he's proven that he can take a team the distance...Pierce has not. I see KG averaging his 20 pts and 10 rbs. I see Pierce averaging around 17-18 and Ray Allen will also be around that area. KG is the sole post presence on that team that demands a double. So he will definitely get his touches and the offense will probably run through him. Pierce and Allen will follow his lead. That's if the chemistry runs correctly...if not then they won't make it far in the playoffs...

Delonte West is not a celtic anymore. He was traded away in the Sonics Ray Allen trade.

I also heard its 2 #1 picks and not just 1...that's a hell of alot for 32yr old KG with about 3 more good years left in him

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=/nba/news/ACN4094247.htm

Look at it from this perspective. The Celtics are now almost gauranteed to make the playoffs now and have essentially taken one of the few available top 8 spots. Before this trade I felt that the Knicks would be a lock for at least the 8th spot. But now I'm not so sure. Look at the East (based on last year) realistically. (1) Detroit, although on the decline, is still a better team than the Knicks, (2) Chicago is better, (3) Cleveland is better, (4) Washington (without injuries) is better, (5) Miami, although they are aging, can be a better team, (6) Toronto was better (although I can see a let down next year), (7) Orlando has gotten better, (8) New jersey (with Kristic and now Jamaal Magloire) are better, (9) and now Boston as a potential top team in the East.

That does not leave us with much room to make the playoffs. We will need to play well from the start. We can't dig a hole early and expect to climb out of it late in the season. Plus, two of the previously mentioned teams will have to stumble and fail to make the playoffs. I'm optimistic, but lets be realistic people. It will not be easy for the Knicks to make the playoffs with KG in Boston now.

LJ - you know what- in a weird kind of way I think this is better for the knicks....
For past 5-6 years the Atlantic division has been a joke and has promoted mediocrity amongst the teams. Teams within the division knew that they could fall back as much as 10-15 games, finish up with a ~40 win season and still have a much greater chance of making the playoffs than any other team in the other divisions.

I think this is may have affected the mindset of the young knicks team - which led Malik to say how many of the players did not take losing seriously.
Now, with very strong division rivals, the knicks will have no choice but to raise their level of play to compete. And it's not like the knicks do not have the talent - we do have really decent players at every position, and a very strong potent bench.

Isiah's Advocate 33 said:

I know KG won't be gaurded by Artest ( however Artest can gaurd the 4) but they(C's) would have the best starting 5 in the East w/ KG. Now mind you that team is still a bit older than ours, but argubably better (on paper). Garnett made the Twolves into a contender w/ Cassell, Spree, Hudson, and Oliver Miller at the 5. Imagine Ray Allen and Paul Peirce, Delonte West, and any other player you can put a uniform on, this team is forreal! Doc is a great coach and will maximize this talented roster (or will be replaced, possibly another "Dream Job" for Larry). Zebo did have some good numbers against KG, but you're lying to yourself to say you would take him over KG. Ray Allen is what we want Jamal to become, and Paul Peirce really is a tough matchup for any of our players ( even my man Q) so that is the reason for wanting Ron. Steph, Q, Ron, Zach and Eddy, I think is a better team than Boston w/ KG, but sorry to say our current roster isn't. But as a fan of the league I would love to see both these trades pulled off, so the East can gain some respect again

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Steph, Curry, Zach, Crawford, and Q is certainly a better starting 5 than what Boston would have. Starting 5. Not big 3. Diff. Eveen if you give the big 3 the edge at their positions it's a lot closer on our end to theirs compared to there C/pg comparison which we would win nightly running away.

Delonte West is in Seattle via the trade. leaves Telfair and Rondo. Telfair going in the deal to Minny, just leave Rondo and likely a vet brought in. Rondo will be good though. That said Steph>>>>>>>>> their pg. Curry is ungaurdable. Period.

Now, if we get Artest, its a wrap. But we're still good imo

i agree it pretty much gives them a low seed but i still think theyre not deep enough to go far. are they even at like 10 players on the roster? one rookie point guard who cant shoot? all their big men are 1-2nd year except for perkins who isnt really great in the first place. whos playing center? perkins? big baby? i think in terms of our matchups against them, curry will eat them up, zbo and kg will about even out, hopefully balkman can contain pierce or allen, pierce or allen puts a smackdown on our 2 guard, our pgs dominate theirs. in other words most things go our way, they were never known as a defensive team and bringing in ray does little to help their perimeter d. why the hell did they release allan ray now that they have no team?

edit - to make things worse they traded them back minnys first round pick and their own.... longterm theyre kinda fucked.

highesthigh said:

dude, i never lie to myself. yes i would take the zebo deal over the kg deal-for zebo we gave up francis and frey- thank you, bye... for kg you would have to gut your team- no thank you, later... yes i would love to have artest in the team but if you ask for lee or balkman- no thank you, later... i know the grass is always greener yadda yadda but you can't just look at incoming you also gotta look out for outgoing... and no boston's not going anywhere for awhile...

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I didn't say which was a better deal between the Zach trade and the potential Celtic deal for Garnett, I asked who would you take Zach or KG? I know a lot of people think the C's are giving up a lot for a 32 year old player, but I for one thought the same about Miami giving up too much for Shaq, two seasons later Miami had their first championship, and the Lakers have not hit the 2nd round since. Is KG as dominent as Shaq? No, but with with the addition of Allen and Peirce, that is tough. Look I know I'm about to open myself to mass criticism for this next comment, but hey it's just my humble opinion....I think with the addition to Zach David is actually expendable, and let me tell you why. David is a double double threat no doubt about it, but I think we are too caught up in stats, I mean David Lee is not really an offensive threat, also he's not a lock down post defender either. Seriously I think Malik can put up the type of numbers that could make up for the loss of David Lee. Pause; I know what yall are thinking David Lee is younger and has more of an upside, which is very true, but Malik is actually the best post defender we have and can score the ball when given the chance. Again not saying he's better, but between he and Balkman they could fill the void rather well if Lee were traded. Plus Malik is a better player to come off the bench for us, If we're really looking for Zach to get big minutes, then having a player of Lee calliber backing him up his somewhat of a overkill. Ok hit with your best shot, I know some of yall are reading this and thinking I'm crazy, stupid, or both, but I really would give up Lee for Ron and if we can dump James' of Jefferies contract in a deal then it sweetens the deal for us. But I wouldn't be against keeping Jefferies as a back up 4 also. Alright let me have it, hell I may read this tommorow morning and tear into myself, but that's what I feel now.....One last thing.....What do Micheal Sweetney, Trevor Ariza,Channing Frye have in common? Answer they were at one point considered untouchable, major trades were turned down because of the untouachable tag, and all three trade value plummeted. I like IT (peep the name) but he far too often sits on playes too long, he wants to do "something for nothing" trades which often results in us taking on more cap, and if he thinks Ron will make us a contender he needs to make a trade that will amount to us taking a loss to move forward.

highesthigh said:

kg to boston sounds a hell of a lot like kobe to ny.

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So what number should Kobe where as a Knick? LOL

Trin_Starr said:

LJ - you know what- in a weird kind of way I think this is better for the knicks....
For past 5-6 years the Atlantic division has been a joke and has promoted mediocrity amongst the teams. Teams within the division knew that they could fall back as much as 10-15 games, finish up with a ~40 win season and still have a much greater chance of making the playoffs than any other team in the other divisions.

I think this is may have affected the mindset of the young knicks team - which led Malik to say how many of the players did not take losing seriously.
Now, with very strong division rivals, the knicks will have no choice but to raise their level of play to compete. And it's not like the knicks do not have the talent - we do have really decent players at every position, and a very strong potent bench.

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I can see that. Lets just see if that happens tho

My argument was not whether or not the Knicks are a better team than the Celtics. I think it really comes down to which team is going to have a better record at the end of the season? Yes, as an overall team talent the Knicks are better than the Celtics, but that doesn't mean sh*t. The Knicks as a team are going to have to play better and compete harder than the Celtics, and many other teams in the East, throughout the entire season. Let's face it, the Knicks were notorious for letdowns last year. That can't happen next year if the Knicks want to make the playoffs now. The margin for allowable mediocre effort has gotten a lot smaller. It's possible that the 8th seed next year will be an above .500 team, which is the way it should be in my opinion. The Knicks have the talent to be a 50+ win team, but until they start playing to their potential, they will get creamed by the many much improved teams in the East.