Did we just do the Ariza Move again?

Remeber how Trevor had a great rookie outing for us, he was labled untouchable, struggled his 2nd season (as most rookies do) and eventually was a peice to the Steve Fracis trade, and would emerge as the best of the 3 players traded in the deal giving another ray of hope in Orlando's future. Well word has it that Channing Frye is having a great off season for the Blazers. While there may not be any weight to this rumor, but there is some talk that Aldridge may not be a lock at the 4 for Portland. Can these reports be misleading, yes I remember one summer when our coaches were claiming that Micheal Sweetney was the second coming of Barkely, so reports from teams staff could just them merely trying to install some confidence in their player by praising him publicly. But it's also worth noting that Frye (like Lee) is working out with Team USA starting next week, and how we expect it to improve Lee's game it should do the same for Frye. Look I like Channing and I hope he does have sucess in Portland, like I hope Ariza has success in Orlando, but what I don't want to happen is that Zach has the same sucess as Francis did in NY. The trade for Francis and the trade for Zach already have a few similarities(Francis & Marbury = Zach & Eddy?), but lets just hope that the results are different, but they'll be no question this time as to who initated this trade this time we'll know that the coach and GM agreed on this deal!

HoopsHype.com has the Article on Frye is anyone wants to read it

i agree with the majority of what you said. but pairing zach and curry is totally different from francis and marbury. with the francis trade, we traded a young and potentially good SF (we are still lacking in that position) for an pg/sg who's caree was on the decline when we already had two in crawford and marbury and 3 if you count nate.

We also messed up because you traded for a downgrade of Marbury. With the Zach trade, we traded up in the same position. Curry and Zach aren't as similar as steve and marbury were. because they don't play the same position and both have different strengths, although they both aren't proven defensively.

larry brown shipped out ariza, bashing em threw the media helped and larry brown didnt want anything to do wit marbury so he got a similar player in steve

Somehow I look at it in the same fashion.
Marbury had some FLAWS that Coach Larry Brown was doing his best to let everyone know about. Francis let Jameer Nelson take his Starting position in Orlando.
For Coach Zeke to put both Marbury & Francis in the Starting lineup last season was plain MAD. Especially when the Tandem of Marbury & Crawford learned their lesson from Coach Larry Brown splitting them up the previous season.

The Curry & Frye Tandem was screaming for David Lee to intervine between the two. Curry played his best game with David Lee starting with him. Frye played his best game with David Lee beside him on the court. And when you added SF-Q.Richardson or SF-Rookie Balkman with Curry & Lee or Frye & Lee we seen a chemistry brewing on bothsides of the court. When this became noticeable for eveyone to see SF-Jared Jefferies came off the injured-list and Coach Zeke gave him 30 MPG his first 23 games as a Knick. And losing games became the Knicks trend.

Now The Knicks have aquired PF-Zach Randolph this offseason, and before the Trade was even finalized talk of a Curry & Zach Starting frontcourt Lineup already took effect in the beginning of July 2007. Later for how well Curry and David Lee played so well together last season in the frontcourt and the previous season before that. Curry score and ambidextrous David Lee rebound and pass or tap him the ball down low complimenting each other talents (Later for all that!). David Lee is great off the bench! So is Horry and Bowen for the Spurs but they are even better as Starters alongside of Scorers Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker.

Zach may be the same as Francis but if used right he could be a big piece to a Winning Knick Team. As for him Starting when the season open is a NO-NO, he is not familar to the Eastern Conference teams. I would have Zach and Balkman come off the bench to chew up every Knick oposition bench-players to gain a lead or futher extend the lead. This way their would be No presure on Zach and I'm sure he would LUV the hustling play of Balkman beside him every game, Balkman knows how to pass to his Bigmen downlow.

As for Coach Zeke thinking its to irrelevent and easy for the next coach to counter. Zach & Curry for the first 7 to 9 minutes of the first quarter, the next team can pick who to go after for early foul trouble, or dont let them get into foul trouble if the next team is outscoring them 2 to 1.
The Curry & Zach lineup is to readable early in the regular season they are One on One players that need a complimentary player (Lee & Balkman) beside them early in the season.

Kiyaman said:

As for Coach Zeke thinking its to irrelevent and easy for the next coach to counter. Zach & Curry for the first 7 to 9 minutes of the first quarter, the next team can pick who to go after for early foul trouble

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No...the other PF on the next team has to decide to foul out or defend with outstretched arms because Curry and Randolph are bruisers and no one...NO ONE can D them up 1 on 1. A double must come or their scoring buckets. They are too powerful to be stopped alone. I think somebody already said this already...But you are right about Lee...he should have started over Frye along side Curry but who was going to deliver help side blocks then?? The lil bit that Frye gave was appreciated. I mean when given 35 mpg he could block anywhere between 1-2 blocks a game...that is alot better than what Lee could offer. We all know Curry can block shots...look at his first 3 season with the Bulls...but can he consistently be a defensive force or presence in the middle. In fact he doesn't have to block shots...he can do something that's not on the stat sheet...change shots

are you comparing frye to ariza?

How can you compare the two, ariza is a project and has some talent, and could be a decent NBA player one day, by far has not established himself yet. Frye, is on a whole different level. He has already had a hugely sucessful season(rookie year). Yes he's struggled last year in a jamaal crawford dominated offense(hmmm, crawford!) He has the size and talent to be a star in this league. Even in a bad season for frye he was more productive than ariza...Cutting ties with Frye, could be a huge mistake!!! I happen to like Zack, but Frye wasn't the only deal, I liked getting ride of fransis, now we only have 1 to many ball dominating PG/sg type players, marbruy and crawford, oh and robinson on bench. split those guys up and we have a better flowing offense.

jzero29 said:

How can you compare the two, ariza is a project and has some talent, and could be a decent NBA player one day, by far has not established himself yet. Frye, is on a whole different level. He has already had a hugely sucessful season(rookie year). Yes he's struggled last year in a jamaal crawford dominated offense(hmmm, crawford!) He has the size and talent to be a star in this league. Even in a bad season for frye he was more productive than ariza...Cutting ties with Frye, could be a huge mistake!!! I happen to like Zack, but Frye wasn't the only deal, I liked getting ride of fransis, now we only have 1 to many ball dominating PG/sg type players, marbruy and crawford, oh and robinson on bench. split those guys up and we have a better flowing offense.

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Frye is one dementional and a bench player at best.

Ariza isn't a project. He's a NBA starter already and the best defender on the Orlando Magic, one of the better defenses in the East. We got ducktaped and buttraped in that deal. Gracias Isiah Thomas.

Jzero He means that we traded another young talent off. Ariza for Francis Frye for Randolph.

nyKnicks126 said:

Jzero He means that we traded another young talent off. Ariza for Francis Frye for Randolph.

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A better way to put it the Knicks could've let Penny Hardaway contract die without getting anything in return, and resigned Ariza & Jackie Butler to the MLE, and not bother with signing Jared Jefferies.
Plus the 18 to 20 MPG given to C-Jackie Butler as Curry Backup would've been great alongside of PF-Frye, and SF-Balkman or SF-Ariza. The Offense would have made Channing Frye the Focal Bigman scorer with Butler & Ariza dumping him the ball downlow to get the basket or go to the foul line.

The Tandem of "Channing Frye & Jackie Butler" would not need a Zach Randolph, Jared Jefferies, and Jerome James on this Knick Roster...

At that time - we gave up Ariza, I was disappointed. He was a good player who provided the intangibles, but his loss was quickly reduced when we picked up Balkman. - I would choose Balkman over Ariza any day!!!
The point being is that I think NY fans put their young talent too high up on a pedestal wayy too soon - when in fact their talents and skillset can be found other upcoming players as well a la balkman.
The same can be said of Frye. I am not disputing the fact that he is a good player and can be a solid contributor in a few years - but when knicks fans started calling him the next TD- c'mon guys - we need to get off the happy juice.

The answer to trade Frye was plain and simple. The knicks wanted to give Frye the knicks future PF so bad that they were willing to transform Lee into a SF - so that they could have both, but it is a plain fact that Lee was not a SF. He is a rugged, rebounding PF.

I watched every game last year and our weakest position on the floor was at PF - Frye would get murdered out there. He was too inexperienced. He looked lost of defense, and was easily boxed out or pushed out of the way for a rebound. His shot which was his best attribute was non existent - as more teams became aware of his shooting prowess and started to get up on him.

I heard many a time on this and other forums - that if only we could take frye's J and combine it with Lee's rebounding - we would have our PF position filled - well believe it or not - that's what Randolph is. He has a very sweet jumper and rebounds like crazy. His D might not be up to par - but interior D was never the knicks problem. One guy did an analysis using stats from 82games.com and he came to the conclusion that most teams killed the knicks from the perimeter....a direct correlation to the poor effort put forth from the guards.

Actually - here's the article I was referring to:
http://www.knickerblogger.net/2007/07/05/what-ails-the-knicks-d/

How long are we going to keep looking in the review mirror. Yes Ariza is a good player and trading him was a lose to the Knicks. And if my moms invested in Microsoft back in the eighties I would have grown up rich. We've got to move on. Ariza, and Frye are gone. Good luck to them and god bless. If Kobe decides to say in LA or is traded to the west and for some reason we can't get Artest I say let's bring Ariza back to NY. He would help on defense and he doesn't require the ball to be affective.

Kiyaman said:

A better way to put it the Knicks could've let Penny Hardaway contract die without getting anything in return, and resigned Ariza & Jackie Butler to the MLE, and not bother with signing Jared Jefferies.
Plus the 18 to 20 MPG given to C-Jackie Butler as Curry Backup would've been great alongside of PF-Frye, and SF-Balkman or SF-Ariza. The Offense would have made Channing Frye the Focal Bigman scorer with Butler & Ariza dumping him the ball downlow to get the basket or go to the foul line.

The Tandem of "Channing Frye & Jackie Butler" would not need a Zach Randolph, Jared Jefferies, and Jerome James on this Knick Roster...

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first of all you have butler outside the paint dishing to frye??? DId i read that right? Butler with all his ball handling and passing skills? Was he that good? did frye and butler together avg the stats that zach did? 23 and 10? I doubt it. I liked butler and ariza, and maybe the trade of ariza was a loss, but he's not a god, see below this quote

metrocard said:

Frye is one dementional and a bench player at best.

Ariza isn't a project. He's a NBA starter already and the best defender on the Orlando Magic, one of the better defenses in the East. We got ducktaped and buttraped in that deal. Gracias Isiah Thomas.

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Ariza started 7 games last year? does that make him a starter? 8pts and 4 rebounds 1 steal 0.3 blocks and 1 assist per game? so starter what??? He is a good perimeter defender, thats about it. Everything else, rebounding and scoring, He's got a lot to work on, making him a project. When you don't have a complete game, it's not called a starter, its called a project. I can remember trevor being benched several times last season for lack of focus and intesity, that he had when he was with us. SO he need work even on the things he's good at.
Frye one dimensional at best? so his rebounding,posting, shooting, defense, which includes some shot blocking all equals one dimension? so what does ariza have a quarter of a dimension? Frye's size and shooting skills will allow him to be a sucessfull avg NBA player, maybe a role player, with the potential for greatness, potential to be more than a role player. As compared to ariza, who has potential to be a great role player. My point, you have someone who is a level above, the other. Ariza, we found balkman right away, we won't find another guy like frye so easily.

Trin_Starr said:

At that time - we gave up Ariza, I was disappointed. He was a good player who provided the intangibles, but his loss was quickly reduced when we picked up Balkman. - I would choose Balkman over Ariza any day!!!
The point being is that I think NY fans put their young talent too high up on a pedestal wayy too soon - when in fact their talents and skillset can be found other upcoming players as well a la balkman.
The same can be said of Frye. I am not disputing the fact that he is a good player and can be a solid contributor in a few years - but when knicks fans started calling him the next TD- c'mon guys - we need to get off the happy juice.

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I agree with you, as much as or young talent is put on a pedestal, it's because NY franchise has never really taken time to develope any of our draft picks, so finally when we see a couple guys with talent, that Knicks picked, and we watch them develope, we're over protective. Ariza had potential and played well with us(still not a starter on orlando), Did I like the francis trade, no, but now we traded francis and frye for zach, who, is a proven scorer, yes we are without frye, and that hurts. Most of our draft pick that we have just faded away on other teams. Are there any other picks still out there? Sweetney? lampe? no other draftee's that spent a season with us in the league? So yes, whenwe see potential, we want to hold on, instead of trading for some washed up player, who's position is taken. But frye for zach? zach has talent and is young...I can live with that, Young talent for young talent. As for ariza, balkman will fill his role.

jzero29 said:

Ariza started 7 games last year? does that make him a starter? 8pts and 4 rebounds 1 steal 0.3 blocks and 1 assist per game? so starter what??? He is a good perimeter defender, thats about it. Everything else, rebounding and scoring, He's got a lot to work on, making him a project. When you don't have a complete game, it's not called a starter, its called a project. I can remember trevor being benched several times last season for lack of focus and intesity, that he had when he was with us. SO he need work even on the things he's good at.
Frye one dimensional at best? so his rebounding,posting, shooting, defense, which includes some shot blocking all equals one dimension? so what does ariza have a quarter of a dimension? Frye's size and shooting skills will allow him to be a sucessfull avg NBA player, maybe a role player, with the potential for greatness, potential to be more than a role player. As compared to ariza, who has potential to be a great role player. My point, you have someone who is a level above, the other. Ariza, we found balkman right away, we won't find another guy like frye so easily.

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Most Orlando Magic fans want Ariza to start, he was their best bench player. Lets not forget how bad of a coach Brian Hill is, dude was a fool.

Ariza is an excellent athlete with a lot of intagibles. He's a great perimeter defender, which is very important to have on your team. He can also help defend and get rebounds. He's at his best on the fastbreak, where he can make a lot of acrobatic plays.

Ariza isn't a PROJECT. Projects are prospects with a lot of question marks. Ariza already answered his doubters and proved them wrong. Ariza can be a productive NBA player when minutes are given, and especially the minutes he earned as a Knick and as a Magic.

You bringing up Ariza's slump as a Knick doesn't prove anything. Ariza mostly played great basketball for the Knicks. Ariza and Kurt Thomas was our defense basically, where everyone slacked off.

Ariza shoots 53% FG, 10% higher than Channing Frye, and Ariza is a perimeter player. Plus, Ariza is a better player overall. All you can say Frye has over Ariza is size(that Frye doesn't use), softness, and a jumpshot.

Frye sucks at rebounding and gets out rebounded consistently. Fuck the stats. You're a Knick fan, you should at least know what Frye is good at and bad at. You lost mad Knick points for saying Frye can defend, rebound and block shots. Why would you name his weaknesses as his strength? Thats like saying Curry can pass or Jerome James can shoot threes. To top it all of; you said Channing Frye has potential for greatness :teeth:. Frye has been mediocre at best. When he isn't shooting the ball well, what did he really do for us? Don't you remember when Frye was shooting 37% as a starter? Dude was so bad, even Frye fans turned on him.


You killed your agrument by saying Frye can be a great role player and Ariza is going to be a great role player. You really have no argument here, you're just throwing words out and scrambling them around.

You're not making any sense. Not every player in the NBA has a complete game. According to your theory then, Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry must be projects since they don't have complete games? I dislike the way both of these guys play, but I'm not stupid enough to say they're projects. Research and go back to learning about draft terms before you use them here. Project is totally the wrong word, and I think you're trying to use another one you couldn't think of.

Frye averaged around 9 ppg as a starter and 5 rebounds in about 30 minutes. He shot 43%, thats TERRIBLE for a PF. He didn't average a block plus got manned by every guy he defended, which really hurt our defense cause Curry was a poor defender also. Channing Frye was totally useless last season. I would of been more pleased just see Balkman take all his minutes, cause Frye didn't really provide nothing last season, especially when his shooting was off.


Plus, we gave up a huge expiring contract, PLUS Ariza for a bum like Francis only. We got buttraped on that dead.

When we traded Frye atleast we got Randolph (You're wrong once again; Knicks can replace Frye with someone who can shoot better, rebounds, scores in the post, is more athletic, quicker and bigger.) and expiring contracts.