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New New York
Feb 05, 2008, 21:49
http://www.miamiherald.com/592/story/407442.html

Not that it has any effect on us, and it's probably not going to happen.....but it appears that the Suns and the Heat are discussion a deal in which Shaq and Shawn Marion will be swapped. Lets say this deal does happen, which team does the deal help?

Well the Heat's season is done! But D Wade and Marion does provide hope for the future. Now all they need is a Center, maybe they will be looking for a non rebounding, non shot blocking, scoring Center....does anyone know one that fits the mold? Just playin.....kinda

Shaq to the Suns, gives the Suns a shot at the title, but puts a two year window on their run. But Amare and Shaq are a formidable (you hear that Boston!) frontline. Mike D and Nash can make it work.Grant Hill now becomes the starting SF, but again there is a short time table to make it work.

metrocard
Feb 05, 2008, 21:51
Lakers > Celtics > Phoneix with or without Shaq.

GetRealistic
Feb 05, 2008, 22:03
Come on Metro as much as i hate them you gotta have the Spurs in that list.

New New York
Feb 05, 2008, 22:26
Lakers > Celtics > Phoneix with or without Shaq.

I agree with you mostly in that Lakers and Celtics are front runners, but the Celtics still have to get past Detroit. And out West it's all about who you match up against. Case in point, Dallas maybe makes the Finals if they don't run into Golden State last year. Denver and Golden State could be some number one or two seed first round match up. This is going to be a very fun playoffs to watch

datruth
Feb 05, 2008, 22:32
trade makes no sense for phoenix

Pricey
Feb 05, 2008, 22:41
Phoenix r dumb is they trade Marion for Shaq, Shaq is a fat old man.
At least get a few players out of it like Haslem and Shaq, not a straight swap.
I could imagine Miami licking their lips at this trade, get rid of a massive old man with a contract and acquire a gun player who is still a good age then get a lottery pick and this team is playoff bound.
Phoenix would still be behind the Lakers, Spurs and maybe Dallas if they get a certain PG from NJ from what im hearing.
Suns will not win a championship for a long time

NYKnicks15
Feb 05, 2008, 23:46
worst trade i ever heard. welllll.. anyway yes bad bad trade that is true. marcus banks will go with shawn marion to the heat for shaq and shawn marion has approved the trade. not saying that matters but it helps the heat when wondering if they are going to recieved a disgrunted player. which still wouldnt matter cause a disgruntled player is still better than shaqs fat ass. shaq will slow down pheonix 100% the only thing that makes sense is if they go away from their natural style and try to play D

allanhoustonfan220
Feb 06, 2008, 09:26
has isiah thomas talked to steve kerr or something. i mean come on shaq doesnt fit anything that the suns do best. on the court he is aging, getting slower and slower, and he plays hurt. he is no longer a guy that gives you 20-10 every night. and shaq is no longer that defensive indimator that he once waz so how can this deal make any sense. so far the only analyst that thinks this will work is jalen rose on espn (and he predicted that the nets would be in the finals). and financially hes gona make 40 mill over the next 2 years. that doesnt help the suns at all. if the deal goes down nice job pat riley findin some sucka to take shaq off ur payroll.

GetRealistic
Feb 06, 2008, 10:59
Put Shaq on a team that has a chance to win a championship and your going to see a more motivated better Shaq. Its pretty obvious that the current Suns were a nice regular season team that is fun to watch, but come playoff time where the game slows down they don't have a chance against a team like the Spurs.

Not saying itll work but its worth the gamble. Phoenix now has Grant Hill and Shaq so they can play a half court game when need be. Say what you want about Shaq being old and out of shape but his experience and championship leadership are way to important to overlook.

donchris
Feb 06, 2008, 12:36
trade makes no sense for phoenix

Cosign!

I don't know what Kerr was thinking. Phoenix took on $40 million in salary for an aging obsolete player and traded one of their key players. Can Shaq run with them? Haven't they watched the Knicks? Two low post scores doesn't work, assuming that Shaq can still score in the post. And if Kerr is stupid enough to take on Shaq, how come Thomas didn't try to move Curry? Hell, Curry would be a better fit for Phoenix than a 35 year old Shaq. Phoenix just got a hell of a lot slower while the Lakers became one of the top teams in the west, if not this season, next season no question.

Trade grade for Phoenix D-
Trade grade for Miami A+

Even if Marion doesn't want to play in Miami next season the heat still got rid of 30 million in salary. LOL Good one Pat!

MSGKnickz33
Feb 06, 2008, 12:53
Worst move ever by the Suns. Steve Kerr is now officially the 2nd worst gm in the NBA. Miami just raped the Suns. Who would want shaq at this point? Im my opinion he has the worst contract in the NBA. No way will he fit into their system. They were dumb to give up Kurt Thomas, I know it has to do with salary cap but then they go make a trade for Shaq. They went from having a small chance of winning a championship to having no chance at all. I really didnt think they would win this year anyways. They would have missed Kurt Thomas against the Spurs. Acquiring Shaq has brought them down another level or 2. Some argue that over the last 3 or 4 years Shawn Marion has been the most consistent player on the suns. How does this trade rank compared to some of Isiahs worst trades? I think its up there. Im shocked that Kerr would be this dumb.

paris401
Feb 06, 2008, 13:24
How does this trade rank compared to some of Isiahs worst trades? I think its up there. Im shocked that Kerr would be this dumb.

i agree... this is a move only isiah would luv... until it is finalized i refuse to believe it...

when some of the posters here sprout how there are other 'stupid' gm's in the league other then isiah, i shake my head and say no way..

well if this deal gets done, i bow to all who have stated the above...

MSGKnickz33
Feb 06, 2008, 13:35
Cosign!

I don't know what Kerr was thinking. Phoenix took on $40 million in salary for an aging obsolete player and traded one of their key players. Can Shaq run with them? Haven't they watched the Knicks? Two low post scores doesn't work, assuming that Shaq can still score in the post. And if Kerr is stupid enough to take on Shaq, how come Thomas didn't try to move Curry? Hell, Curry would be a better fit for Phoenix than a 35 year old Shaq. Phoenix just got a hell of a lot slower while the Lakers became one of the top teams in the west, if not this season, next season no question.

Trade grade for Phoenix D-
Trade grade for Miami A+

Even if Marion doesn't want to play in Miami next season the heat still got rid of 30 million in salary. LOL Good one Pat!

I think we couldve had Marion but at the same time I recently came to the conclusion that Shaq is still>>>Curry, sadly. I have recently been callin out Pat Riley for bein a bad gm but after this deal I have to take that back. Riley just robbed the Suns.


i agree... this is a move only isiah would luv... until it is finalized i refuse to believe it...

when some of the posters here sprout how there are other 'stupid' gm's in the league other then isiah, i shake my head and say no way..

well if this deal gets done, i bow to all who have stated the above...

I still dont think Kerr is dumber then Isiah but after this deal the gap got closer. Another deal like this and maybe. Stephen A Smith should be fired. He was talkin about how the deal might make the suns better. This deal clearly made them worse.

The Lakers are officially my favorite team in the Western Conference. It went from bein the Suns/Rockets to the Warriors and now the Lakers.

nyKnicks126
Feb 06, 2008, 14:44
I think this is a good thing. Marion will make the heat a much better up tempo, and a better team all around. Miami is the worst team in the league right now, but I think there wins will add up more to the point were they will be around the 4-8 worst team in the league, opening up an extra spot in the draft for the Knicks.

Blas
Feb 06, 2008, 15:03
While I do agree with the majority and think this trade does not make a lot of sense...

I hate to admit that maybe I'm not seeing something that the think tanks on the suns see.

I mean some of us thought getting zach for francis was going to be a good thing for knicks.

Starks
Feb 06, 2008, 15:55
Say what you want about the Suns, but they just became one of the most interesting teams to watch now.

I know I'll tune in to their next few games

paris401
Feb 06, 2008, 15:58
I mean some of us thought getting zach for francis was going to be a good thing for knicks.

i gotta raise my hand and say 'that be me'... boy was i wrong... did zach at least bring some of that good west coast 'kush'???

nyKnicks126
Feb 06, 2008, 16:57
February 6th 2008. 5:51 eastern time the TRADE IS OFFICIAL Marcus Banks, and Shawn Marion are traded to the Miami Heat for Shaquille O'Neal. Shaqs new team Phoenix

Kennedy Curse
Feb 06, 2008, 17:16
wow this trade makes no SENSE! they were just desperate because of what Lakers did wit gasol...WOW! well there goes Phoenix season....

Pricey
Feb 06, 2008, 17:32
Panic trade by the suns. If they were smart they should have traded Marion at the start of the season for a Jefferson or someone that they could use.
They knew Marion wanted out for a long time and made the worst trade possible.

paris401
Feb 06, 2008, 18:38
i got start off by saying i think that wide-load curry sux's big time

b u t ...

almost as big as shaq, 10 years younger, probably at this stage as good on "O" as shaq, probably a tad worse on "D" (maybe not), a contract that while it run s longer is 1/2 of shaq's, both waddle down the court at a similar pace...

why not trade for wide-load???

i do not get this trade.... i am confused...

metrocard
Feb 06, 2008, 18:39
I agree with you mostly in that Lakers and Celtics are front runners, but the Celtics still have to get past Detroit. And out West it's all about who you match up against. Case in point, Dallas maybe makes the Finals if they don't run into Golden State last year. Denver and Golden State could be some number one or two seed first round match up. This is going to be a very fun playoffs to watch

Detroit doesn't scare anyone, they couldn't even beat Cleveland in a series.

Dallas is only a regular season team, they have no stability and their starters have been injury prone.

New Orleans are better than Golden State, Denver, Dallas and Detroit. Don't underestimate the best guard in the NBA, Chris Paul.

Back to this trade, here is my input.

It seems like an Isiah-like move what Kerr did, but we need to look deeper.

If Shaq does get back in Shaq and gets back to his serious work ethic, its a good deal for Phoneix. Phoneix doesn't play much defense, so it shouldn't a problem for O'Neil. Phoneix obviously went from a small team to a giant team

Nash at 6"3
Bell at 6"5
Hill at 6"8
Amare at 6"10
Shaq at 7"1

Shaq's court awareness and passing skills aren't diminished. Nash, Hill, and Shaq are really some of the best passers at their positions, them playing together makes Phoneix's half court offense the best in the NBA, behind the Lakers. If Phoneix wants to speed up the tempo, you'll sub in Diaw and Barbosa, not a problem.

People are bitching about this trade because Shaq isn't the 28 ppg 12 rebound guy anymore, but he still can be very serviceable with his skills, veteran leadership and the respect he gets on the court with his size and power.

If Shaq develops a 3pt shot out of no where, Phoneix will average 130 ppg, literally.

For Miami, its not a bad deal. All they need now is Beasley at PF and sign a defensive minded center and try to grab a PG, and they'll have a pretty legit team.


Drafted PG
Wade
Marion
Beasley
Center

Not bad.

Understandable deal for both team.

MSGKnickz33
Feb 06, 2008, 19:01
Detroit doesn't scare anyone, they couldn't even beat Cleveland in a series.

Dallas is only a regular season team, they have no stability and their starters have been injury prone.

New Orleans are better than Golden State, Denver, Dallas and Detroit. Don't underestimate the best guard in the NBA, Chris Paul.

Back to this trade, here is my input.

It seems like an Isiah-like move what Kerr did, but we need to look deeper.

If Shaq does get back in Shaq and gets back to his serious work ethic, its a good deal for Phoneix. Phoneix doesn't play much defense, so it shouldn't a problem for O'Neil. Phoneix obviously went from a small team to a giant team

Nash at 6"3
Bell at 6"5
Hill at 6"8
Amare at 6"10
Shaq at 7"1

Shaq's court awareness and passing skills aren't diminished. Nash, Hill, and Shaq are really some of the best passers at their positions, them playing together makes Phoneix's half court offense the best in the NBA, behind the Lakers. If Phoneix wants to speed up the tempo, you'll sub in Diaw and Barbosa, not a problem.

People are bitching about this trade because Shaq isn't the 28 ppg 12 rebound guy anymore, but he still can be very serviceable with his skills, veteran leadership and the respect he gets on the court with his size and power.

If Shaq develops a 3pt shot out of no where, Phoneix will average 130 ppg, literally.

For Miami, its not a bad deal. All they need now is Beasley at PF and sign a defensive minded center and try to grab a PG, and they'll have a pretty legit team.


Drafted PG
Wade
Marion
Beasley
Center

Not bad.

Understandable deal for both team.

You made some strong points. Shaq can pass and he has had some good games this year. The problem I see with the deal is the fast tempo of the Suns. I cant see Shaq gettin up and down the court quick enough but like you said they dont play defense. I think it was a good deal for the Heat but a risk for the Suns. It could end up workin out for them.

You also mentioned Hill, Nash, and Shaq being good passers which will make them dangerous in the halfcourt game. They usually dont play much half court (especially during the season) but they will now and I think they will be good at it. Pheonix has alot of versatilty. They need to do what works against their opponents and Shaqs minutes should be based on that.

If their playing a team where the halfcourt game favors them then Shaq should get more minutes. If they play a team where the fast pace favors them then thats what they need to do. In the playoffs the Suns seem to play more halfcourt which will be good for Shaq.

Shawn Marion has been a big part of this team. Some analysts have argued that hes been the most consistent player on the Suns over the last couple of years. The matrix so far this season is averaging about 16pts(52.6fg%), 10rbs, and 1.5blks. Boris Diaw will benefit the most from this trade. He will get minutes as a pf and a sf.

I still think Miami wins the deal but I shouldnt be so quick to doubt the Suns. If Shaq can get himself into better shape and the Suns slow it down it can work. Only time will tell how this trade works for the Suns. If no one makes a poll question about this trade, there will be one on my next game thread.

New New York
Feb 06, 2008, 22:27
I have mixed feelings about this trade, it is a high risk, high reward trade. If it works as good as it could, then size them up for those rings. If it works then they have as good a starting 5 as the Celtics and Lakers, with a better bench. But we'll have to wait and see how is pans out, but to cosighn what someone said before, they just became a bit more interesting to watch!

Pricey
Feb 06, 2008, 23:30
Shaq wont stay fit and Suns lose Marion. After seeing the suns game against the Hornets, they were missing sme defensive pressure. Stoudamire got 20 odd rebs but dont let that fool you. Zach gets 16 rebs and we all know he doesnt play defence.
Miami r def the big winners in this deal.

theknicks3
Feb 07, 2008, 00:20
I think this isnt as bad as everyone sees it.

Shaq is old but he once was one of the greatest players to play this game. He is a great defender and still has great timing.

The suns have many players who can score 20 + points a game (nash, stouds, hill, barbosa,) they need someone who can get blocks and stop the damage from big pfs in the playoffs which has cost them.

In terms of player calibre they have lost.

But Phoenix have done well and have put them selves in a position to take it all.

Pricey
Feb 07, 2008, 00:45
I think this isnt as bad as everyone sees it.

Shaq is old but he once was one of the greatest players to play this game. He is a great defender and still has great timing.

The suns have many players who can score 20 + points a game (nash, stouds, hill, barbosa,) they need someone who can get blocks and stop the damage from big pfs in the playoffs which has cost them.

In terms of player calibre they have lost.

But Phoenix have done well and have put them selves in a position to take it all.
he was a great defender and had great timing but his body is failing him and he is giving away simple fouls and it results in him being on the bench.
Just because you are one of the greatest players shouldnt mean that you are good enough for any trade, Marion right now is a better player.
The thing is they are saying it releases Stoudamire off the centres but the thing is he is going to get arse raped by the PFs like Gasol, Boozer and Dirk cause he isnt a good defender.
How slow is the suns offense going to be now with Shaq lumbering up and down the court? He isnt the same player.
I have no issue with Phoenix for trading Marion cause it was coming a long time but during this time they could have easily got a different player for him who will be younger, fitter and more suited to the suns style.

Also Shaqs contract is MASSIVE, what were they thinking.

LJ4ptplay
Feb 07, 2008, 09:42
Worst. Trade. Ever. lol. Well, maybe the Curry trade was worse. Are the Suns going to completely change their style of play now? The style they've been playing for 4 years and the style that Dantoni is convinced will win a championship.

The reason the Suns got rid of Kurt Thomas was so they could stay under the salary cap, but now they've taken on more salary for a player that doesn't fit into their system as well as Kurt Thomas.

Are they going to run pick and rolls with Shaq or are they going to now completely change and become a post-up/inside-outside team? What about the run-and-gun offense? How will that work with an injured and old 330 pound man?

This is like an Isiah trade. Just get whatever you can, regardless of the system played and matching of talents.

Starks
Feb 07, 2008, 10:38
The trade seems bad on paper on so many levels for Phoenix but they were other factors at play here.

Marrion wanted out of Phoenix all along, and eveyone knew he wouldn't have re-signed with the Suns. Maybe they could have shopped him around more, but Marrion was a goner before the season even began. So ofcourse they delt him

paris401
Feb 07, 2008, 10:53
Marrion wanted out of Phoenix all along, and eveyone knew he wouldn't have re-signed with the Suns. Maybe they could have shopped him around more, but Marrion was a goner before the season even began. So ofcourse they delt him


the above makes no sense.. if he was not going to re-sign with the suns, they would have lost him, but would have saved 18m next year. trading him means they now have shaq for next year at 20m + an add. year at 20m.

i would have thought they would have been better off to let him walk...

MSGKnickz33
Feb 07, 2008, 14:09
Worst. Trade. Ever. lol. Well, maybe the Curry trade was worse. Are the Suns going to completely change their style of play now? The style they've been playing for 4 years and the style that Dantoni is convinced will win a championship.

The reason the Suns got rid of Kurt Thomas was so they could stay under the salary cap, but now they've taken on more salary for a player that doesn't fit into their system as well as Kurt Thomas.

Are they going to run pick and rolls with Shaq or are they going to now completely change and become a post-up/inside-outside team? What about the run-and-gun offense? How will that work with an injured and old 330 pound man?

This is like an Isiah trade. Just get whatever you can, regardless of the system played and matching of talents.

It could end up bein like an Isiah trade, we'll have to see how pheonix does and how shaq fits in. If they dont make it to game 7 in the 2nd round then it was a bad trade.

LJ4ptplay
Feb 07, 2008, 14:34
It could end up bein like an Isiah trade, we'll have to see how pheonix does and how shaq fits in. If they dont make it to game 7 in the 2nd round then it was a bad trade.

Yeah, game 7 in the 2nd round is probably a good indicator of trade value. I would even argue that anything less than a conference finals appearance is a failure.

We should start a poll on how far the new Suns will go. Hell, talking about how ****ty the Knicks are is getting old.

Since I think the Shaq trade will make the Suns worse, then I vote for losing in game 5 of the 2nd round. I could even see a 1st round exit, depending on who they play.

allanhoustonfan220
Feb 07, 2008, 16:02
Worst. Trade. Ever. lol. Well, maybe the Curry trade was worse. Are the Suns going to completely change their style of play now? The style they've been playing for 4 years and the style that Dantoni is convinced will win a championship.

The reason the Suns got rid of Kurt Thomas was so they could stay under the salary cap, but now they've taken on more salary for a player that doesn't fit into their system as well as Kurt Thomas.

Are they going to run pick and rolls with Shaq or are they going to now completely change and become a post-up/inside-outside team? What about the run-and-gun offense? How will that work with an injured and old 330 pound man?

This is like an Isiah trade. Just get whatever you can, regardless of the system played and matching of talents.

while i do agree this is a bad trade i wouldnt call it the worst lol and i agree that the suns were stupid to trade away kurt(just like isiah waz) he is a great post defender, which shaq is no longer. shaq is not mobile enough to guard the bigs of the west and be effective. and the classic pick and roll (which steve nash loves doin) will be completely ineffective cuz shaq cant shoot. the suns could have traded 4 kirenlinko, or vince carter, and yet they choose shaq?

Pricey
Feb 07, 2008, 17:35
did u know this trade was offered a week ago but the suns said no to it and then Gasol goes to the Lakers and all of a sudden they accept it???

PANIC TRADE!!!

knicklover
Feb 07, 2008, 17:44
Phoenix management must feel they only have 1 or 2 years left to win the championship (then guys like Nash will start sliding down hill) and they don't have the pieces they need to win the west now.

If so, this is one of those very rare occasions that it might make sense to take on an aging player with a huge contract in a desperate attempt to win the championship.

They must think that the combination of Shaq at C and Stoudemire at PF is superior to Stoudemire at C and Marion at PF for the next 2 years. After that, you'd obviously want Marion because he'll still be good and Shaq will be retired.

The real issue is how much Shaq has left. He's been poor this year relative to the Shaq we are used to, but he has been hurt and may get re-energized by being on a good team. They don't need him to score much. What they need from him is to rebound, start the fast break, and then take a nap until the teams head back down to the other end. The also need for him to play solid defense. In half court games (like in the playoffs), he will fit much better. They will just have to work out something in the post between him and Stoudemire.

The other thing he brings to the team are the intangibles. He's a winner, can rise to the occasion, handles pressure etc...

Of course, there were negative intangibles with Marion. Marion felt disrespected for awhile and supposedly there was also some tension with Stoudemire because they both wanted more shots. It's hard to win in that kind of environment.

The deal is a slam dunk for Miami. They are going to get a great pick this year. Wade + Marion + Top Pick = instant younger playoff contender next year.

For Phoenix it all depends on what Shaq has left. If they win the championhsip it was a great deal. If not, it really doesn't matter all that much that they aren't as good a team because I don't think they were going to win it all anyway.

Pricey
Feb 07, 2008, 18:12
Also Banks can play so another plus there to Miami.

Did u see Stoudamire's defence in both overtimes..... non existent.

Missed Marion badly. Shaq wont be able to defend as well as Stoudamire either. When it comes to crunchtime they wont get it done.

They are now the no-defence suns.

Blas
Feb 07, 2008, 18:26
Wasn't banks sent to the D-league not too long ago? Maybe I am mistaken. I don't know if Marion is excited about going to the heat. I am not sure what Marion wants more... to get a ring... or money.

If Marion wants a ring I would figure he wouldn't be happy going to the heat, and if he wants money I do not think the Heat would sign him to a big contract.

So does Marion have drive to play?

GoKnIcKsDLEE42
Feb 07, 2008, 18:34
the more people i hear on epsn say that this trade makes sense, the more i laugh. This will never work out. There is no way shaq could play in that offense. I mean i hope it does. I love shaq and and the suns are one of my fav teams, but its not guna work out. And about marion-the heat won big time. Marion is an all star. shaq is overweight. marion is 29 and in his prime. Shaq is 35 and just out of his prime. Good luck Suns.

nyKnicks126
Feb 07, 2008, 18:38
Also Banks can play so another plus there to Miami.

Did u see Stoudamire's defence in both overtimes..... non existent.

Missed Marion badly. Shaq wont be able to defend as well as Stoudamire either. When it comes to crunchtime they wont get it done.

They are now the no-defence suns.

Every excellent point, I agree 100%

Pricey
Feb 07, 2008, 18:51
at the end of the day, suns could have gotten way more for Marion.
Suns game style will now change.
Shaq has fouled out 6 times this season due to being slow and missed 15 games or so due to injury. Makes no sense at all.
Everyone knows Marion wasnt happy at Phoenix and the players didnt get along that well with him but surely they r not dumb enough to recognise that this is a bad deal for them.

Anyways hopefully it works out for both teams but Miami r def looking good.
Next season they have Wade, Marion, Davis, and are currently the worst record in the league so odds r they could get 1 or 2 pick at the lottery. Imagine adding Beasley or Rose to that!!!