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Kiyaman
Aug 27, 2008, 06:39
After all the off season moves the Knicks will start the season with the majority of its players that can only play to a half court system rotation. <O:p</O:p
Does the new coach Mike D’Antoni, has the skills in coaching a half court offensive team?
<O:p</O:p<O:p</O:p
We seen four years of Coach D’Antoni up-tempo run and gun offensive strategy in<ST1:p <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.knicksonline.com/forums/ /><st1:City w:st=Phoenix,</st1:City></ST1:p<O:p</O:p
inwhich his main strategy was out scoring his opponents in a fast tempo system. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Here are the Knick players that have problems in a fast tempo system and feel more relax in a half court system:
<O:p</O:p
C-Jerome James<O:p</O:p
C-Curry<O:p</O:p
PF-Zach<O:p</O:p
PF-Malik Rose<O:p</O:p
SF-Q.Richardson <O:p</O:p
SG-Crawford <O:p</O:p
PG-Collins<O:p</O:p
PG-Duhorn<O:p</O:p
PG-Marbury <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Here are the Knick players that feel more relax in a fast tempo system:
<O:p</O:p
PF-Lee <O:p</O:p
SF-Jefferies<O:p</O:p
SF-Chandler<O:p</O:p
SF-Gallinari<O:p</O:p
SG-Roberson<O:p</O:p
PG-Nate <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Coach D’Antoni best winning season in <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pPhoenix</ST1:p</st1:City> was when he had a relentless defensive SG-Joe Johnson who average 20 points per game, and had no problems when switching to the combo-guard. <O:p</O:p
When <st1:City w:st="on">Phoenix</st1:City> lost SG-Joe Johnson they replaced him with a defensive SG-Bell and Diaw to defend <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pPhoenix</ST1:p</st1:City> opposition scoring SF and SG.

This leave the question of Jamal Crawford open (the only SG). <O:p</O:p
What will new coach D’Antoni do with Jamal Crawford, what position will he play? <O:p</O:p
Some say Crawford has the ability and skills to play at a run and gun tempo, when all of Crawford’s previous NBA coaches could never get him to push the ball or make wise decisions in a fast tempo system or on a fastbreak. <O:p</O:p
Crawford did well in a fast transition system coming off the bench alongside of Nate Robertson who did all the pushing the ball upcourt and throwing Crawford a lob pass for a close jumpshot or an untested layup. The bench players quick transition system ran well with Nate, Tazman, and Lee, running hustle on the ball on both sides of the court with Crawford being the main scorer.
All that stopped when Crawford became a “starter” and refuse to run with the bench players, he demanded the ball to walk it up the court on every offensive play.

So the Knicks 40 mpg Jamal Crawford who averaged 7 shots out of 18 attempts each game last season will be the biggest question mark in new coach D'Antoni system...

datruth
Aug 27, 2008, 08:17
Q, crawford and STEPHON MARBURY can't run high tempo offense???u gotta be kiddin me, Q has experience in da phoenix type offense and he did well, jamal and stephon are from the streets and the offense is close to park basketball, they would have no problem playin in da system, and how u going put gallinari on da high tempo offense after seein em for about 15 minutes???

Pres8
Aug 27, 2008, 08:47
coach Mike D’Antoni isn't only run and gun!!!!!! when he was coach of benetton treviso in italy(my team)his team played with a good attack and good defence but I never seen my team play run and gun!!!!! he is the same coach!!!! he is famous for the run and gun system but he can play in another way if he hasn't good players for run and gun .

dre48ny
Aug 27, 2008, 11:30
Q, crawford and STEPHON MARBURY can't run high tempo offense???u gotta be kiddin me, Q has experience in da phoenix type offense and he did well, jamal and stephon are from the streets and the offense is close to park basketball, they would have no problem playin in da system, and how u going put gallinari on da high tempo offense after seein em for about 15 minutes???

Yeah i agree that Marbs and Jamal can play high tempo. Gallinari looks very versatile from his days in Italy, that preseason game is too small of a sample case. He will be fine in D'Antoni's system. I'm not a fan of QRich but he did play well in Phoenix. I'm sure D'antoni will have a mixed game plan because he just doesn't have the pieces to his puzzle yet.

LJ4ptplay
Aug 27, 2008, 13:22
D'Antoni's system also relies heavily on ball movement. None of our players know how to pass the ball.

Paul1355
Aug 27, 2008, 15:43
Q, crawford and STEPHON MARBURY can't run high tempo offense???u gotta be kiddin me, Q has experience in da phoenix type offense and he did well, jamal and stephon are from the streets and the offense is close to park basketball, they would have no problem playin in da system, and how u going put gallinari on da high tempo offense after seein em for about 15 minutes???

:agreed: how can Crawford and Marbury not excel in this system? We know Crawford has speed and Marbury is one of the best PG slashers in the NBA when he plays aggressive. And Q Rich averaged his career high 17 ppg in this system....kiyaman, pretty dissapointed on your prediction.

Paul1355
Aug 27, 2008, 15:44
D'Antoni's system also relies heavily on ball movement. None of our players know how to pass the ball.

They'll learn, it's basic fundamentals.

knickfan2112
Aug 27, 2008, 15:57
q def can fit into the run and gun... the only concern there should be is who is going to lead the breaks and i think marbury is capable of that

jpz17
Aug 27, 2008, 16:02
After all the off season moves the Knicks will start the season with the majority of its players that can only play to a half court system rotation. <o>:p</o>:p
Does the new coach Mike D’Antoni, has the skills in coaching a half court offensive team?
<o>:p</o>:p<o>:p</o>:p
We seen four years of Coach D’Antoni up-tempo run and gun offensive strategy in<st1>:p <st1:city w:st="[/IMG]Phoenix,</st1:City"></st1:city>:p<o>:p</o>:p</st1>
inwhich his main strategy was out scoring his opponents in a fast tempo system. <o>:p</o>:p
<o>:p</o>:p
Here are the Knick players that have problems in a fast tempo system and feel more relax in a half court system:
<o>:p</o>:p
C-Jerome James<o>:p</o>:p
C-Curry<o>:p</o>:p
PF-Zach<o>:p</o>:p
PF-Malik Rose<o>:p</o>:p
SF-Q.Richardson <o>:p</o>:p
SG-Crawford <o>:p</o>:p
PG-Collins<o>:p</o>:p
PG-Duhorn<o>:p</o>:p
PG-Marbury <o>:p</o>:p
<o>:p</o>:p
Here are the Knick players that feel more relax in a fast tempo system:
<o>:p</o>:p
PF-Lee <o>:p</o>:p
SF-Jefferies<o>:p</o>:p
SF-Chandler<o>:p</o>:p
SF-Gallinari<o>:p</o>:p
SG-Roberson<o>:p</o>:p
PG-Nate <o>:p</o>:p
<o>:p</o>:p
Coach D’Antoni best winning season in <st1:city w:st="on"><st1>:pPhoenix</st1>:p</st1:city> was when he had a relentless defensive SG-Joe Johnson who average 20 points per game, and had no problems when switching to the combo-guard. <o>:p</o>:p
When <st1:city w:st="on">Phoenix</st1:city> lost SG-Joe Johnson they replaced him with a defensive SG-Bell and Diaw to defend <st1:city w:st="on"><st1>:pPhoenix</st1>:p</st1:city> opposition scoring SF and SG.

This leave the question of Jamal Crawford open (the only SG). <o>:p</o>:p
What will new coach D’Antoni do with Jamal Crawford, what position will he play? <o>:p</o>:p
Some say Crawford has the ability and skills to play at a run and gun tempo, when all of Crawford’s previous NBA coaches could never get him to push the ball or make wise decisions in a fast tempo system or on a fastbreak. <o>:p</o>:p
Crawford did well in a fast transition system coming off the bench alongside of Nate Robertson who did all the pushing the ball upcourt and throwing Crawford a lob pass for a close jumpshot or an untested layup. The bench players quick transition system ran well with Nate, Tazman, and Lee, running hustle on the ball on both sides of the court with Crawford being the main scorer.
All that stopped when Crawford became a “starter” and refuse to run with the bench players, he demanded the ball to walk it up the court on every offensive play.

So the Knicks 40 mpg Jamal Crawford who averaged 7 shots out of 18 attempts each game last season will be the biggest question mark in new coach D'Antoni system...

:ban:...........................................

youpddd
Aug 27, 2008, 21:44
Here are the Knick players that have problems in a fast tempo system and feel more relax in a half court system:
<o>:p</o>:p
C-Jerome James<o>:p</o>:p
C-Curry<o>:p</o>:p
PF-Zach<o>:p</o>:p
PF-Malik Rose<o>:p</o>:p
SF-Q.Richardson <o>:p</o>:p
SG-Crawford <o>:p</o>:p
PG-Collins<o>:p</o>:p
PG-Duhorn<o>:p</o>:p
PG-Marbury <o>:p</o>:p
<o>:p</o>:p
Here are the Knick players that feel more relax in a fast tempo system:
<o>:p</o>:p
PF-Lee <o>:p</o>:p
SF-Jefferies<o>:p</o>:p
SF-Chandler<o>:p</o>:p
SF-Gallinari<o>:p</o>:p
SG-Roberson<o>:p</o>:p
PG-Nate <o>:p</o>:p
<o>:p</o>:p


its interesting how you put collins as being more relaxed in a half court system because on knicks on demand, my understanding was that collins would be better under d'antoni. You'll find the video under - walsh on collins

datruth
Aug 27, 2008, 21:59
and how the hell u put jefferies comfortable on da up tempo offense, dude cant do nothing right offensively!!LOL

Kiyaman
Aug 28, 2008, 07:54
I based my remarks on this:

Marbury was kicked out of New Jersey because he refused and could'nt play to coach Byron Scott uptempo style of system. And the Nets had some fast uptempo teammates for Marbury in players Kittles, Steve Jackson, KVH, and K-Mart who all kept playing injured so not to play with Marbury.

Crawford lost his starting PG job and role as a PG in Chicago to PG-Hinrich and PG-Pargo uptempo transition. Crawford was benched and switch to the SG position.

Q.Richardson performance in Phoenix lasted only one season, you will never see a highlight of Q.Rich on a Phoenix fastbreak for an easy layup or dunk.
Q.Rich would run to the 3-point line on a fastbreak which had to drive D'Antoni crazy however, Q.Richardson shot 42% from the 3 that season.
And have not shot anywhere close to that the last 3 seasons with the Knicks. His FG% has average close to Jefferies.
Q.Rich has become to slow for the average SG & SF in the league (maybe Back injury).

I put Marty Collins down as a relax Halfcourt style of player because once he develope a close jumpshot on three parts of the court he will be the threat that Clyde said he will be. Collins does have the court awareness and passing skillz for an uptempo system, but his scoring will be from the FT line.

Curry ran a great uptempo game with PF-Tyson Chandler defending the paint and grabbing all the rebounds, and no Crawford on the Bulls. But since then coach Mark Aquire refined Curry low post moves in a halfcourt offense which have Curry putting on more weight than what he had as a Chicago Bull.

Coach Cheeks and coach McMillian could not get Zach Randolph to be apart of a fastbreak, so an uptempo system is out of the question.

Malik Rose still thinks that he is a scorer.
Jefferies best chances at scoring is making one out of two easy fastbreak layups.

Kiyaman
Aug 28, 2008, 08:19
I actually doubt if the coach (D'Antoni) will be calling any shots on this Knick Team with high price contract players like Marbury, Zach, Q.Rich, Crawford, and Rose dividing the teammates in the lockerroom.

To break this entire Post down to making a long conversation into a short one.

History has always showed the Knick Big-Brass will make Walsh & D'Antoni give the majority of playingtime to the Big Contract Players, or the so-called franchise players. The Knicks Big-Brass feels if the big contract players are not worth giving playingtime to then trade them or play them untill you trade them. Pat Riley and Don Nelson did not agree with that Big Brass philosophy.
That is why coach Larry Brown had a million different starting lineups however, Marbury & Curry was in each of those starting lineups (they did not come off the bench for Larry Brown, and Larry Brown consistent public comments about Marbury & Curry showed that he wanted to bench both players.).

It is not about the Knick Players having to play to coach D'Antoni Phoenix style of play, it's about if D'Antoni can coach a 48 mpg halfcourt style of play.
That is what we Knick Fans will endure this 2008-9 season.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Paul1355
Aug 28, 2008, 18:48
I actually doubt if the coach (D'Antoni) will be calling any shots on this Knick Team with high price contract players like Marbury, Zach, Q.Rich, Crawford, and Rose dividing the teammates in the lockerroom.

To break this entire Post down to making a long conversation into a short one.

History has always showed the Knick Big-Brass will make Walsh & D'Antoni give the majority of playingtime to the Big Contract Players, or the so-called franchise players. The Knicks Big-Brass feels if the big contract players are not worth giving playingtime to then trade them or play them untill you trade them. Pat Riley and Don Nelson did not agree with that Big Brass philosophy.
That is why coach Larry Brown had a million different starting lineups however, Marbury & Curry was in each of those starting lineups (they did not come off the bench for Larry Brown, and Larry Brown consistent public comments about Marbury & Curry showed that he wanted to bench both players.).

It is not about the Knick Players having to play to coach D'Antoni Phoenix style of play, it's about if D'Antoni can coach a 48 mpg halfcourt style of play.
That is what we Knick Fans will endure this 2008-9 season.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Who says they won't play the uptempo offense? Because your guess that guys like Crawford won't excel in it? Anyone that has speed and quickness and decent shooting can excel in this system. The only thing we should worry about is if the big men can handle it because we know everyone else can. The Big men we have will lose stamina quicker with this style, but hey maybe they will be in better shape....hopefully Curry and Zach.

jpz17
Aug 28, 2008, 20:46
you know, I'm getting sick of Kiya's negativity.....

StEpHoN_mArBuRy
Aug 28, 2008, 20:58
Same here. I've been sick of it. Sometimes its not even like hes trying to look at things realisically just trying to be as negative as possible. Just ignore his post thats all.

Kiyaman
Aug 29, 2008, 06:52
you know, I'm getting sick of Kiya's negativity.....


Com'on man this isnt about negativity, last offseason I was pissed about the Zach trade, and I put up all Zach flaws last offseason. Plus I put up threads that David Lee was the Knicks best starting PF alongside Curry.
I also made threads last offseason that Isiah should not play the "Curry & Zach" tandem untill the middle of midseason. Because both were unreliable on defense and he picked up a defensive F/C- in Randolph Morris that he could train in the offseason as a tandem with Curry, and a tandem with Zach, this way the Knicks would have 4 Bigmen to use in their rotation.
I doubt if giving Randolph Morris playingtime would have made the season worst than a 23 win season.

The offseason before that I was outrage with the notion of "Francis & Marbury" being the Knicks backcourt starters at the start of the season.

StEpHoN_mArBuRy, negativity has nothing to do with the truth of reality of what consist on the Knicks 2008-9 season team.

If the Knicks would have did some serious adding & subtracting this offseason from their repeated 33 and 23 win season team in the department of G.M., coaching-staff, and players, then I would have alot of positive things to say.

DontForgetDerekHarper
Aug 31, 2008, 06:55
are we once again predicting what will happen based on how our players played in an offense that was meant to make people look like poor passers. And was built around a slow eddy curry and randolph. This is guard orientated offensive systems. IF you noticed when ever the knicks won games last year, it was when crawford had like 7 assists, nate scored 20, and randolph had 12 pnts and 15 reb type games. you will see more of this this year. Trust me.

donchris
Aug 31, 2008, 08:42
After all the off season moves the Knicks will start the season with the majority of its players that can only play to a half court system rotation. <O:p</O:p
Does the new coach Mike D’Antoni, has the skills in coaching a half court offensive team?
<O:p</O:p<O:p</O:p
We seen four years of Coach D’Antoni up-tempo run and gun offensive strategy in<ST1:p <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.knicksonline.com/forums/ /><st1:City w:st=Phoenix,</st1:City></ST1:p<O:p</O:p
inwhich his main strategy was out scoring his opponents in a fast tempo system. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Here are the Knick players that have problems in a fast tempo system and feel more relax in a half court system:
<O:p</O:p
C-Jerome James<O:p</O:p
C-Curry<O:p</O:p
PF-Zach<O:p</O:p
PF-Malik Rose<O:p</O:p
SF-Q.Richardson <O:p</O:p
SG-Crawford <O:p</O:p
PG-Collins<O:p</O:p
PG-Duhorn<O:p</O:p
PG-Marbury <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Here are the Knick players that feel more relax in a fast tempo system:
<O:p</O:p
PF-Lee <O:p</O:p
SF-Jefferies<O:p</O:p
SF-Chandler<O:p</O:p
SF-Gallinari<O:p</O:p
SG-Roberson<O:p</O:p
PG-Nate <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Coach D’Antoni best winning season in <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pPhoenix</ST1:p</st1:City> was when he had a relentless defensive SG-Joe Johnson who average 20 points per game, and had no problems when switching to the combo-guard. <O:p</O:p
When <st1:City w:st="on">Phoenix</st1:City> lost SG-Joe Johnson they replaced him with a defensive SG-Bell and Diaw to defend <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pPhoenix</ST1:p</st1:City> opposition scoring SF and SG.

This leave the question of Jamal Crawford open (the only SG). <O:p</O:p
What will new coach D’Antoni do with Jamal Crawford, what position will he play? <O:p</O:p
Some say Crawford has the ability and skills to play at a run and gun tempo, when all of Crawford’s previous NBA coaches could never get him to push the ball or make wise decisions in a fast tempo system or on a fastbreak. <O:p</O:p
Crawford did well in a fast transition system coming off the bench alongside of Nate Robertson who did all the pushing the ball upcourt and throwing Crawford a lob pass for a close jumpshot or an untested layup. The bench players quick transition system ran well with Nate, Tazman, and Lee, running hustle on the ball on both sides of the court with Crawford being the main scorer.
All that stopped when Crawford became a “starter” and refuse to run with the bench players, he demanded the ball to walk it up the court on every offensive play.

So the Knicks 40 mpg Jamal Crawford who averaged 7 shots out of 18 attempts each game last season will be the biggest question mark in new coach D'Antoni system...

If there were an approval rating for bad posts yours would be plummeting. Your hatred for the current Knicks administration blinds you to the potential progress that will be made, and in turn, you've lost credibility as a poster, becoming only a shadow of your former self.

I wanted Tommy T. from Boston to coach us. We wouldn't have heard **** about run n gun and Tommy would have focused on defense first. But that idea didn't come to fruition and Walsh hired one of the leagues best coaches. A different kind of coach that the front court of team seemingly don't fit into his system, but his interviews changed my outlook. It's not realistic at this point for the Knicks to run a 7 second offense, but they can run, say a 12 second offense. The point is D'Antoni will work with what he's got, but it isn't over. Knicks are still shopping Randolph.

The notion that Crawford, Marbury, Collins and Duhon can't run is retarded. These are some of the fastest players on the fastest players on the team. What do you know about Gallinari? He's 20lbs heavier then Crawford. How does he make it into your list of those that can run and Crawford doesn't? You get a D- on this one coach.

Kiyaman
Sep 02, 2008, 08:43
DonChris, thanks for the insult.

In sports once a player buys into a system and become dedicated to it, then great things could happen with that team.
You are absolutely right about that.

Same-Page Players or same-page coaches?
To become a new coach of Detroit who have the same starting lineup, the coach have to get on the same page as Detroit Players.
Think about it.

Alot of veteran players would like to buy into a new coach strategy, but physically has found it hard to break-out of the things they been doing normally for years.

The Marbury & Crawford tandem played under coach Wilkins, Herb, Brown, and Isiah, the two players has yet to work together well on offense or defense together. Nor have they played well alongside of any other Knick Guard.
The Knicks 6 game winning streak under coach Brown fooled me with the Marbury & Nate tandem. And the Crawford & Nate tandem with both comming off the bench to lead an uptempo charge fooled me too.
The Backcourt guard Chemistry never came so the improvement to better the SF, PF, and center became a repeated season of 33 and 23 repeated seasons for 4 seasons.
It seem like the 3 guards relationship to compliment each other style became the mixture of Oil & Water. Plus adding an unathletic Q.Richardson who is forever giving advice to other teammates while his performance stinks did not help the 3 guards by adding more water & oil.

I'm sure 2 year contract Duhorn dont want to start a bad relationship with any of his teammates or coaching staff, so having Marbury, Crawford, Q.Richardson, and coach Dan Toni giving him different orders is not fair.

The Knicks needed to hire a President & G.M. that was going to trade Marbury, Crawford, and Q.Rich this offseason for some decent backcourt players, or at least trade two of the players.
To those who say it cant be done are the same people that you dont hire for this high paying job$$$.

I only mention the Guards. We all know we need something done with our Bigmen.

datruth
Sep 02, 2008, 09:30
The Marbury & Crawford tandem played under coach Wilkins, Herb, Brown, and Isiah, the two players has yet to work together well on offense or defense together.


all those coaches got different systems, none of those coaches preach a running offense

jpz17
Sep 02, 2008, 09:34
kiya, things will change, D is a great coach, now if you complain about d, you deserve a week ban

Kiyaman
Sep 04, 2008, 08:58
all those coaches got different systems, none of those coaches preach a running offense


Which one of those coaches did the backcourt of Marbury & Crawford play well together with?
NONE!

Coach Skiles is a running coach, how well did he do with Crawford than he did without Crawford?

Coach Byron Scott is a running coach, how well did he do with Marbury then he did without Marbury?

The number one thing that was learned from Isiah Thomas tour was "what not to do". And his roster and 8-man rotation of Curry, Zach, Q.Rich, Crawford, Marbury, Lee, Fred Jones, and Jefferies has proven without a shadow of a "doubt" what not to do...

datruth
Sep 04, 2008, 10:26
Which one of those coaches did the backcourt of Marbury & Crawford play well together with?
NONE!

Coach Skiles is a running coach, how well did he do with Crawford than he did without Crawford?

Coach Byron Scott is a running coach, how well did he do with Marbury then he did without Marbury?

The number one thing that was learned from Isiah Thomas tour was "what not to do". And his roster and 8-man rotation of Curry, Zach, Q.Rich, Crawford, Marbury, Lee, Fred Jones, and Jefferies has proven without a shadow of a "doubt" what not to do...

idk about skiles being a running coach, he preaches more defense and plus we dont have the same jamal as the one in chicago...and the thing about byron scott's offensive scheme was that it had to be lead by a leader and nobody in the franchise believed steph is leader, dats the only thing that worries me, how this offense going work with no leader, steph definitely has the skills to succeed in da offense but steph always had the talent but not to much success

metrocard
Sep 06, 2008, 11:45
Q, crawford and STEPHON MARBURY can't run high tempo offense???u gotta be kiddin me, Q has experience in da phoenix type offense and he did well, jamal and stephon are from the streets and the offense is close to park basketball, they would have no problem playin in da system, and how u going put gallinari on da high tempo offense after seein em for about 15 minutes???

They can't. You gotta be kidding yourself for being so unaware.

I'm a Marbury fan, but I know for a fact he's not a great at pushing the ball up tempo. Crawford isn't either since he overdribbles.

LMAO...Jamal is from the surburbs of Seattle, what the **** does the streets have to do with anything.

Steve Nash is from Canada and will bust Crawford's ass in an up tempo game.

You sweating street n*ggas too much, stop fantasizing the hood life and get a job.