The Curve Ball: What can Walsh do insted of waiting to 2010?

http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-spknix156070351mar15,0,688492.story

Lets think outside the box.

We all know that we will have something like 22 million to chase Free Agents in 2010 (assuming we give Nate and David Lee 20 million combined), and we all agree that won't really be enough to land mulitiple Free Agents, we ofcourse need to move Curry or Jefferies before 2010 and neither look at all appealing to economically strapped teams.

So here is the plan B! The Knicks have 47 million dollars worth of expiring contracts before 2010 and 63 million before 2011. The Knicks could start to capatilize on teams that are struggling Financially and start picking up expensive players already signed beyond 2010.

Alright I know what you're thinking "Didnt The GM we just fired try a similar plan", the answer is yes, but in short he was stupid about how he used the expiring contracts.

Ok so lets look at some examples.

We all want Camby to compliment Lee in the frontcourt, but why not go after the younger version in Chandler? They started to deal him to OKC for nothing
and we have plenty of nothing to offer! We sign Samb to a one year 900k deal package him and Harrington to NO for Chandler. We get our shot blocker and NO gets a contract off the books maybe to pursue Amare in 2010 or simply for cap relief.

Another scenerio is we snag a Hinrich for Q Rich. The Bulls are set in the backcourt and the trade deadline deal shows they are looking for cap space over talent.

Now lets go in for the kill....We trade Duhon,Mobley's contract and Wilson for Carmelo.

So lets see what we would end up with!

Hinrich/Nate
Hughes/Nate
Carmelo/Danillo
Lee/Jefferies
Chandler/Lee/Curry

A good offensive and defensive team w/ a tight rotation. Plus we would still have contracts to add role players.

This is just one of many possible scenerios we could do, and this particular scenerio is not all that likely, but you see my point in using expiring contracts could get us more than just waiting for 2010.

I like your thinking outside of the box, although I'm not big on the idea of bringing in Carmello.

If we want to trade Curry we'll need to part with Lee or Robinson. Walsh wont resign them both. Because when Curry was playing well it was due to Lee doing all of the dirty work, I wouldn't be surprised if they were a package deal. I could see them in Toronto or Sacramento.

I'd do all that except the Carmelo deal.

Ok so I'm not the biggest Carmelo Anthony fan in the world either. But, we are going to need a go to type player especially if we would be surrendering our FA position in 2010, and I think he would do well in the system. He's a scorer who can play both forwards spots. Like him or not he is one of the 10 best players in the league and would average 25 or better in Dantoni system. Look Dantoni's sytem has made Al Harrington at times look like an All Star again, it would make Carmelo an All NBA type player. Carmelo is shooting so well this year 43%, but last season he shot 49% from the feild.

Again he's not my first choice, but, Carmelo,Chandler, and Hinrich is better than anything we can afford in 2010. Not at all a bad consilation prize for not getting Lebron,D Wade and co.

Ok, so lets look at another possibility....

We do Duhon and Mobley for Brand (major major risk I know!). Sixers want to dump him for obvious reasons, I think a team willing to take him on could get a draft pick in return. When healthy Brand could be a nice compliment to Lee as a scorer rebounding, shot blocking big man. Is it pratical to think he will ever be healthy? Right now it seems as likely as Curry geting into shape.

Q-Rich for Hinrich

Al Harrington for Tayshaun Prince. Detroit would essentially rid themselves of the lone contracts on the books in 2010 and really could build the team from ground up, plus they still are going to have sign Maxiel and possibly Sheed this year and they still want to be players in the FA market, maybe they view Prince as a player they could part with for the good of getting a superstar in 2010....maybe

Hinrich/Nate
Hughes/Nate
Prince/Wilson
Lee/Danillo/Jeferires
Brand/Jefferies

Now the risk of taking on Elton Brand deads this one for me -he reminds me of Antonio McDyess too much- but let just say it did work we are talking one of the better teams in The East. Four very good defenders in the starting five and low post and outside scoring. This would be a complete team

or replace Brand for Cris Kaman (who we just give back Mobley's contract for) and we get

Hinrich/Duhon
Hughes/Nate
Prince/Wilson
Lee/Danillo
Kaman/Jefferies

So again you get my point there are several better options than waiting for 2010 when we will only have 22 million to spend.

What about Chris Bosh? I think Toronto will try to trade him, since he has no future there. Expirings+Chandler and maybe a draft pick would probably do it.

Then we could pick up an older star this summer for the MLE. Nash, Sheed, Bibby, Andre Miller, Odom. Because of the economy, and not many teams having cap space this summer, they would probably agree to the MLE. The only teams with cap space this summer are Detroit, Memphis, and OKC. Not very tantalizing, especially compared to NY. They could probably make up the difference in endorsements here.

New NY.....I like your idea maybe b/c many championship teams has been built with that concept of an idea for over 50 years.
Although, I'm not a fan of any of the players u pick other than Tyson Chandler whom if we get would make me keep Curry, and resign Lee & Nate (plus hire a couple of bigmen coaches and defensive coaches to put on Dantoni's staff). All three bigmen in training-camp could start something new in next season rotation.
Players Nate, Duhon, and Wilson showed they could be some strong contributors in next season rotation if they can get a pass-first guard (Session), or a scoring guard (Redd), it will be hard to find another hustling defensive SF like Ariza or Balkman to go with that group.

Ending contract players Mobley, Q.Rich, Hughes, and Al Harrington should all be shopped this offseason for one or two decent players that would fit into a decent scheme rotation that will bring wins next season.

The 2010 Plan reminds me to much of the offseason Orlando Magic signed Super-Star Grant Hill & T-Mac.
The 2010 plan does not promise us a playoff season or one super star player.
What it does promise us is a low salary cap with a bunch of low salary players to surround one or two star franchise players inwhich trading will not be easy without adding a draft pick.......I would rather have the high cap salary with players whom perform at their price value.

JayJ44 said:

What about Chris Bosh? I think Toronto will try to trade him, since he has no future there. Expirings+Chandler and maybe a draft pick would probably do it.

Then we could pick up an older star this summer for the MLE. Nash, Sheed, Bibby, Andre Miller, Odom. Because of the economy, and not many teams having cap space this summer, they would probably agree to the MLE. The only teams with cap space this summer are Detroit, Memphis, and OKC. Not very tantalizing, especially compared to NY. They could probably make up the difference in endorsements here.

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Bingo!
Bosh must be the top priority. We can land him a hell of a lot easier then we can Labron. My guess is that we'll have to give up Lee or Nate though.

Hinrich is a good point guard with a long contract. Trading for Hinrich would completely eliminate our chances at Labron. LJ would have to resign this summer before I'd be up for this trade.

Why would we trade Lee or Nate to get Bosh? He is a free agent in 2010. We can just sign him then and keep Lee and Nate. Tyson Chandler is a free agent in 2010 also.

Any trades we make for contracts longer than 2010 ruins our ability to sign a big time free agent in 2010.

We should stick with the plan. First thing will be to sign Nate and Lee. Then if we have to use one of them to move Curry and/or Jeffries, then so be it. At least we will be getting something in return (i.e. more cap space and the ability to sign multiple free agents). There will be many good players available in free agency in 2010.

donchris said:

Bingo!
Bosh must be the top priority. We can land him a hell of a lot easier then we can Labron. My guess is that we'll have to give up Lee or Nate though.

Hinrich is a good point guard with a long contract. Trading for Hinrich would completely eliminate our chances at Labron. LJ would have to resign this summer before I'd be up for this trade.

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Hinrich's contract actually drops each year, plus you have to imagine that if Dantoni's system can make Duhon look that good a player like Hinrich would be an All Star. I really do think Hinrich could be almost as good as Nash, plus, Kirk can play D. So acquiring a defensive minded play maker who can shoot the ball well is as good as any PG we could sign in 2010.

There are a couple of PGs better than Hinrich in 2010 but how likely is it we actually sign them? Why risk it is my opinion.

LJ4ptplay said:

Why would we trade Lee or Nate to get Bosh? He is a free agent in 2010. We can just sign him then and keep Lee and Nate. Tyson Chandler is a free agent in 2010 also.

Any trades we make for contracts longer than 2010 ruins our ability to sign a big time free agent in 2010.

We should stick with the plan. First thing will be to sign Nate and Lee. Then if we have to use one of them to move Curry and/or Jeffries, then so be it. At least we will be getting something in return (i.e. more cap space and the ability to sign multiple free agents). There will be many good players available in free agency in 2010.

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Look if there was a realistic chance to move Curry than ok lets stick to plan 2010,but in order for that to happen Curry has to return to playing shape and play at a high level to make teams want to pay him 10 million in a critical cap year. In other words lets it's just too big a risk.

Even moving Jefferies off the books would mean having to part with Lee or Nate just to give us the kind of space to make real moves in 2010. Look The NBA cap will be at 60 million how many free agents can we really sign?

Lets say we sign Nate and D. Lee for a combined 20 million then that gives us only 17 million to play with. Plus the MLE (if the new CBA doesnt get rid of it).

Now if we use expiring contracts to chase players who's contracts extend past 2010 then we have 63 million to work with. Yes doing so would take us out of the D-Wade,Lebron,etc. sweepstakes, but it gives us more oppotunity to chase more players.

Teams are going to be thirsty for expiring contracts for 2010, lets make that work. We could potentially land Monta Ellis or Kevin Martin seeing how both G-State and SAC are looking to get under cap in 2010.

Honestly name a need have and we can adress that need through trading expiring contracts. We won't be able to do that in 2010 even if we move Curry off the books.

donchris said:

Bingo!
Bosh must be the top priority. We can land him a hell of a lot easier then we can Labron. My guess is that we'll have to give up Lee or Nate though.

Hinrich is a good point guard with a long contract. Trading for Hinrich would completely eliminate our chances at Labron. LJ would have to resign this summer before I'd be up for this trade.

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Agreed & Agreed.

The point in signing Bosh is to guarantee he doesn't get taken by anyone else.

Tall, lithe, quick (for a big), good j, can play d on the perimeter, fan of Mike D. He will be as happy as a fly on a turd in NY & we would reap the benefits in the win column.

bosh is perfect if we only have to give up lee

otherwise if we can get rid of hughes(or keep him if he can just be that defender off the bench for 20mpg at most) and just sign redd(if hes FA) and hopefully pick up decent PF-C draft pick, that would be just as good

the portable man said:

bosh is perfect if we only have to give up lee

otherwise if we can get rid of hughes(or keep him if he can just be that defender off the bench for 20mpg at most) and just sign redd(if hes FA) and hopefully pick up decent PF-C draft pick, that would be just as good

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Why would you want to get rid of Lee,when he can come off the bench and put up big time numbers and start and put up big time numbers?We will need Lee to come off the bench for us if we sign a FA or two in 2010.I personally think we will only get one superstar in 2010 and should keep Nate and Lee for the future.I would'nt trade him for Bosh no way!!

I would take 'Melo in a heartbeat. However my concern for the future is size. I want a 7 footer, or two. I'm old school when it comes to basketball. Pound the ball inside and seek high procentage shots and get a three point play the traditonal way. Where is the next Tim Duncan? I want him...

WVKnickfan said:

Why would you want to get rid of Lee,when he can come off the bench and put up big time numbers and start and put up big time numbers?We will need Lee to come off the bench for us if we sign a FA or two in 2010.I personally think we will only get one superstar in 2010 and should keep Nate and Lee for the future.I would'nt trade him for Bosh no way!!

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well if we got bosh he could just play C and do the pick n roll thing with nate & duhon, then u also have interior d and shot-blocking now, bosh's midrange is probably just as good as lee's

and i like harrington @ pf, he's got outside and inside game, although better perimeter D than interior but thats not so bad if a good C is there...he's effectice at pf cuz no one can really guard him @ that spot, u can only contain him

but like i said i like lee and its prolly better to just go for a good shotblocking draft pick and get someone like redd who's D is almost as good as hughes but add an automatic shot, with the plays dantoni runs u can imagine how many nice looks redd would be able to get

Time to wake-up and start Rebuilding NOW

The 2010 Dream of Super-Star players Lebron, D.Wade, and Joe Johnson not resigning is a 5% Dream for the next team.

How about leaving the co-star players Melo, Bosh, Amare, and Redd alone (too) so we could build a roster of contribution role-players before the 2010 offseason.

How about trading for Tyson Chandler on draft night with our ending contracts.
How about going after FA Session this offseason.
How about resigning Nate & Lee asap.
How about adding a Bigman-coach and a defensive-coach to Dantoni's staff.
A bigger coaching-staff leads to offseason-training for Curry, Lee, and hopefully an unwanted Tyson Chandler in N.O..

Having a ballance 9-Man Rotation at the start of training-camp could lead to a very successful 2009-10 season.

C-Tyson & Curry
PF-Lee & Tyson
SF-Wilson & Gallo
SG-Nate & ???
PG-Duhon & Session

The above is a competing roster of Starters and Bench players.

Hint: The Knicks having the highest salary-cap is one thing....but having several high price players that does not perform to half of the value of their contract is an entire different problem. If 60% of the Knick players had performed at the level of their contract the Knicks would've been a consistent 2nd round playoff team the last 3 years.....and would be in a better chance and threat in the 2010 FA offseason with "sign and trades" for a Super-Star Player rather than taking a 5% chance in believing a NBA franchise is going to let their Super-Star franchise player walk to the next team (for nothing in return).

The Chandler scenario is very interesting. That guy can seriously play defense. If the Hornets make a big run in the playoffs, I doubt they would let him go even if they want to save money. The non-trade was the best thing that happened to the team. Ever since that trade was rescinded, Chandler and the Hornets have been lights out!!

CP3 really enjoys playing with him and they should try to keep their superstar happy. That team can make the Finals this year. Anyway, that's my pick from the West.

Do you think Shaq will have anything left after the 2009-2010 season, or will he retire? He could come cheap to the NYK in 2010-2011.

I would love to at least get one legitimate superstar though, that's why if nothing happens in 2010, they should seriously look @ 2011 when all those unwanted contracts come off the books and they can attack that superb free agent class.
As much as I want LeBron, all you guys are correct, there are no guarantees. I like having the cap space flexibility, something we haven't had in years because we can start making good moves.

Kiyaman said:

The 2010 Dream of Super-Star players Lebron, D.Wade, and Joe Johnson not resigning is a 5% Dream for the next team.

How about leaving the co-star players Melo, Bosh, Amare, and Redd alone (too) so we could build a roster of contribution role-players before the 2010 offseason.

How about trading for Tyson Chandler on draft night with our ending contracts.
How about going after FA Session this offseason.
How about resigning Nate & Lee asap.
How about adding a Bigman-coach and a defensive-coach to Dantoni's staff.
A bigger coaching-staff leads to offseason-training for Curry, Lee, and hopefully an unwanted Tyson Chandler in N.O..

Having a ballance 9-Man Rotation at the start of training-camp could lead to a very successful 2009-10 season.

C-Tyson & Curry
PF-Lee & Tyson
SF-Wilson & Gallo
SG-Nate & ???
PG-Duhon & Session

The above is a competing roster of Starters and Bench players.

Hint: The Knicks having the highest salary-cap is one thing....but having several high price players that does not perform to half of the value of their contract is an entire different problem. If 60% of the Knick players had performed at the level of their contract the Knicks would've been a consistent 2nd round playoff team the last 3 years.....and would be in a better chance and threat in the 2010 FA offseason with "sign and trades" for a Super-Star Player rather than taking a 5% chance in believing a NBA franchise is going to let their Super-Star franchise player walk to the next team (for nothing in return).

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I wonder right now why we dont have a defensive coach...

We must sign Lee and Nate, asap.
Ramon Sessions isn't very likely though. I like him alot (no homo) but i dont see the Bucks giving him up, hes been playing real nice since ridnour went down (i dont even know why ridnour was starting and not sessions). Last season dude got 24 assists in one game. Hes currently averaging 12 and 5 in 26mpg. Averaged less than 2 turnovers, too.

I dont want Redd, he plays no D. I dont want Melo neither, his numbers dont impress me. and as someone pointed out, his numbers are almost identical to al harringtons.

NO has been 9-3 since Chandler came back. Don't know if they want to give him up other than the fact that they have to pay the luxury tax later on.

I'd take Chandler and Sessions in a heartbeat, though.

the portable man said:

well if we got bosh he could just play C and do the pick n roll thing with nate & duhon, then u also have interior d and shot-blocking now, bosh's midrange is probably just as good as lee's

and i like harrington @ pf, he's got outside and inside game, although better perimeter D than interior but thats not so bad if a good C is there...he's effectice at pf cuz no one can really guard him @ that spot, u can only contain him

but like i said i like lee and its prolly better to just go for a good shotblocking draft pick and get someone like redd who's D is almost as good as hughes but add an automatic shot, with the plays dantoni runs u can imagine how many nice looks redd would be able to get

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I feel we need a player like Lee on this team b/c he does all the dirty work out there and very few players are capible of doing that.Lee and Nate must stay and we should sign them asap when the season ends.To be honest with you... If we could luckout and draft a bigtime center then I feel we should let Harrington go.

Yes he is a good player and has all the skill in the world but the truth is that he just isn't a team player.He gets in those zones and he thinks he can beat the whole team by him self.He plays one on one basketball most of the time and completly forgets about his four teamates.I really think he will hurt the team more than help them and I honestly believe thats why Nate plays that way sometimes playing out of control.He watchs how Harrington plays and he thinks well I can do that and he does it.I would like to see Harrington gone b/c the Knick players would play more team ball along with Nate.You might not agree with me but thats just my opinion.

I think we need a SG and a Center!!

Kiyaman said:

The 2010 Dream of Super-Star players Lebron, D.Wade, and Joe Johnson not resigning is a 5% Dream for the next team.

How about leaving the co-star players Melo, Bosh, Amare, and Redd alone (too) so we could build a roster of contribution role-players before the 2010 offseason.

How about trading for Tyson Chandler on draft night with our ending contracts.
How about going after FA Session this offseason.
How about resigning Nate & Lee asap.
How about adding a Bigman-coach and a defensive-coach to Dantoni's staff.
A bigger coaching-staff leads to offseason-training for Curry, Lee, and hopefully an unwanted Tyson Chandler in N.O..

Having a ballance 9-Man Rotation at the start of training-camp could lead to a very successful 2009-10 season.

C-Tyson & Curry
PF-Lee & Tyson
SF-Wilson & Gallo
SG-Nate & ???
PG-Duhon & Session

The above is a competing roster of Starters and Bench players.

Hint: The Knicks having the highest salary-cap is one thing....but having several high price players that does not perform to half of the value of their contract is an entire different problem. If 60% of the Knick players had performed at the level of their contract the Knicks would've been a consistent 2nd round playoff team the last 3 years.....and would be in a better chance and threat in the 2010 FA offseason with "sign and trades" for a Super-Star Player rather than taking a 5% chance in believing a NBA franchise is going to let their Super-Star franchise player walk to the next team (for nothing in return).

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Agreed Kiya! Again I think the players we would go after vary, but we both understand that sitting around sitting on our hands till 2010 could amount to Jack!

Alright like I said in a previous thread I just watched the whole Bulls Celtics game, and Hinrich needs to be our starting PG next year. He chased down Eddie House for a block on a wide open fast break during an Boston run and during a late game surge stripped Peirce clean driving to the hoop. The Bulls want to re-sign Gordon and already have Rose so Hinrich is expendable.

Ok so I have been laid up after my ACL surgery today and so I have time to pounder how we can rebuild this team. Here it is...

So again here it is, Hinrich for Q-Rich.

Why it works for The Bulls: Allows them to resign Gordon while giving them 35 million (29 cap plus 6 MLE) to use in 2010. They will have an elite backcourt in Rose and Gordon, a nice frontcourt in Deng and Tyrus and if you add a Chris Bosh, Yao, or Amare for 18 million to start plus a couple role players with now you are talking a title contender once they gel.

For The Knicks: It gives us a two way PG, not as good as Nash was for Dantoni, but, a much better defender. Basically a "Rich Man's" Duhon.


Next step (actually this has to be the first step) is a Three team trade with The Cavs and Pistons. We go to The Cavs and tell them we got a proposal that eliminates us from contention for Lebron and all it will cost them is a 2010 Draft pick for two Knick second rounders and cash. We also package our 2009 pick and Cash (we got like three cash considerations) Al Harrington for Tayshuan Prince.

Pistons: Lets say they give 7 million per to Sheed and 3 to Maxiel then they will have 50 million (44 in cap and 6 MLE) to go after Free Agents in 2010. They resign Rip for 15 starting out and they go after Tyson Chanler, Bosh or Amare and Richard Jefferson, Manu,Josh Howard or even Rudy Gay and you get.

Stuckey
Hamilton
Jefferson,Howard,Manu or Rudy Gay
Sheed
Tyson Chanler

Plus they acquire now they have two picks in this year's draft and one will likely be a lottery pick.

The Cavs: Knicks one of the prefeered destination for Lebron in 2010 is out of the picture and all it cost them is late first rounder possibly even the last pick. Small compensation for keeping Lebron. They would be the only team with incentive to help the Knicks get this deal done.

The Knicks: We gain another player who can play in Dantoni's system, but who can also Play D, a "Rich Man's" Jefferies! By acquing That Cavs pick next year the Knicks are free to trade this year's pick.

Lastly we sign AI for the full MLE this summer for 3 years with two player options next year and the year after. Reason being is that it allows him to bounce if he isnt impressed with the direction of the team and we still have Hughes even if this doesnt happen

So how it breaks down and if we make any more moves depends on Curry's conditioning next season.

Lets look at our lineup with Curry in good playing shape and lets just say that we don't get AI (just a player who I'd like to see a Knick in this sytem, but not that vital.)

Hinrich/Duhon (will make a nice backup PG).
Hughes /Nate
Prince/Danillo
Lee/Chandler
Curry/Lee/Jefferies

The type of lineup needed to surround Curry with, defenders and rebounders, still no real shot blocker, but the D is good enough to really compliment to our style of play on offense. A low post option, three players who can shoot and a rugged rebounder = 4th in The East

IF Curry doesnt improve conditioning

Hinrich/Duhon
Hughes/Nate
Wilson/Danillo
Prince/Danillo/Jefferies
Lee/Jefferies

Four defenders in the starting five Tayshaun gives us a post up option as well as a 4 who can spread the floor with his shot.5th Seed in the East next season, but, we will have 29 million more in expiring contracts (Hughes' 13 million +,Mobley's contract 9 million+ and Duhon 6 million+) plus coveted playes like Wilson, Nate and Lee in probably one of the biggest Salary dump trade deadlines ever next season, so who knows who will be available!

Look even if we bring in different players from what I am suggesting, like Kiya said this is how you build a contender.

For a fact this method of using expiring contracts will put together a better team than FA signings in 2010. Again Isiah has scared us off the notion because he did it so bad, but, if done right will result in building a contender.

Pls no more Bulls players to New York. Hinrich and Tyson Chandler. Just the idea makes me wanna puke.