What the Knicks look like this offseason....

Well well well.....another 20 to 30 win season from one of the NBA's Top-3 big market teams (Knicks).

We started this season with 4 bonafide Starters (Nate, Chandler, Lee, and Zach) and a helluv a guard bench (Marbury, Duhon, Collins, Crawful, Q.Rich, Jefferies, and we were in need of an early trade for a bigman off the bench).

My (Kiya) lineup, rotation, and substitutions, has always been different than that of Dantoni's this season....I agree 100% at bringing Marbury off the bench, and DNP Marbury the first 5 to 10 games (not the entire season that was personal).
Although, the trade of Crawful was late and should've been done in the offseason it was the brightest and wisest move done by management this season (My opinion).

We ended this 2008-9 season as a "no-defensive" team inwhich Knick-opositions (even their rookies) will be looking to have their best performance, their best season-highs, or their best career-highs when playing against us next season.....thats the impression we left on a few rookies Lopez, Rose, and Beasely.

We do have an upcomming Star-Player on our roster in Wilson Chandler.
We will lose players Nate & Lee whom 2 years ago energy formed to be one of the toughest hustling tandem off the bench in the NBA.

We do have ending contract players to trade this offseason in:

PG-Duhon ($6M)
SG-Hughes ($13.6M)
SF-Q.Rich ($9.3M)
SF-Harrington ($10M)
Mobley ($9.5M career injury)

O.K. their salaries are large....I know, I know, real Fukkking LARGE....salaries only starters are supposed to get.
Well, how high should our Starting-5 lineup receive....over or under $57.5M)?

We also have Curry ($21.7M) 2 year contract
and Jefferies ($13.2) 2 year contract up for grabs too.
I know, I know....these two salaries are supposed to belong to players that are part of a 7-8-Man rotation.

Last but not least we have 2 rookie contracts to make 9-Knick Players under contract before the 2009 draft night.....in Gallo (bust or not) and Wilson Chandler whom the only numbers which are important is what is expected from next season in scoring (15 to 20), rebounds (4 to 7), assist (3 to 5), Steals (1), Blks (2), TO (2), Fouls (4), to average each game.
Did Wilson Chandler second season performance show he could produce these numbers in his third season???

First, i agree, trading craw and z was one of the best things the knicks have done in a long long time..i can't remember the last time knicks future looked so bright..Donnie single-handedly dug us out of the awful whole and mindset of throwing money at these scrubs that has plagued us for so many yrs...

as for the team, i don't see any of those starting line up players being on our team for the future plans, much less starting..if i had to pick one, i'd say Harrington, but i'm getting the feeling he's more a 'semi-star' we picked up to hold us fan over until we have a good team...hopefully we can trade hughes, duhon, Q, harrington away for some good talent that we'll want for the yrs to come..also i think it's important we get rid of Curry and Jefferies as well..hopefully a team will offer to throw in that they'll take Curry/Jeffereis to spice up the deal...but we have to be careful not to trade away Nate or Lee just because they'll take Curry off our hands..we need some good talent for those two...perhaps a deal involving Duhon Q, Harrington or Hughes would be okay to get an okay player and have them take Curry..but we need some good talent inexchange for D and Nate...as for Gallo and Chandler...I see some good potential for both...right now, more obviously for Chandler...the way he drives to the basket every once in a while in each game and throws it down, as well as his shooting game when he's hot, i think he's has some potential to be a nice compliment to a star player...i don't think he'll ever be a huge 'built a team around' him star, but if he continues to get better i can see him being a 2nd or 3rd best man on the team..Gallo idk he has a lethal 3 point shot, but i just haven't seen enough to judge him yet...i do think they can both eventually be starters on our team...but i also think come this off season, i wouldn't be totally surprised if we see either of them thrown in to a deal...but like D and Nate, even more so, if we trade them, we need to make sure to get some young talent back, and not just throw them in as extras in a deal....at the end of the day all our trades need to 1) get rid of the scrubs on our team now (especially heavy contracts), 2) give us long term (possibly young)/ good talent in return, 3) leave room for moves to be made next off season for the big player (s)

Kiyaman said:

Well well well.....another 20 to 30 win season from one of the NBA's Top-3 big market teams (Knicks).

We started this season with 4 bonafide Starters (Nate, Chandler, Lee, and Zach) and a helluv a guard bench (Marbury, Duhon, Collins, Crawful, Q.Rich, Jefferies, and we were in need of an early trade for a bigman off the bench).

My (Kiya) lineup, rotation, and substitutions, has always been different than that of Dantoni's this season....I agree 100% at bringing Marbury off the bench, and DNP Marbury the first 5 to 10 games (not the entire season that was personal).
Although, the trade of Crawful was late and should've been done in the offseason it was the brightest and wisest move done by management this season (My opinion).

We ended this 2008-9 season as a "no-defensive" team inwhich Knick-opositions (even their rookies) will be looking to have their best performance, their best season-highs, or their best career-highs when playing against us next season.....thats the impression we left on a few rookies Lopez, Rose, and Beasely.

We do have an upcomming Star-Player on our roster in Wilson Chandler.
We will lose players Nate & Lee whom 2 years ago energy formed to be one of the toughest hustling tandem off the bench in the NBA.

We do have ending contract players to trade this offseason in:

PG-Duhon ($6M)
SG-Hughes ($13.6M)
SF-Q.Rich ($9.3M)
SF-Harrington ($10M)
Mobley ($9.5M career injury)

O.K. their salaries are large....I know, I know, real Fukkking LARGE....salaries only starters are supposed to get.
Well, how high should our Starting-5 lineup receive....over or under $57.5M)?

We also have Curry ($21.7M) 2 year contract
and Jefferies ($13.2) 2 year contract up for grabs too.
I know, I know....these two salaries are supposed to belong to players that are part of a 7-8-Man rotation.

Last but not least we have 2 rookie contracts to make 9-Knick Players under contract before the 2009 draft night.....in Gallo (bust or not) and Wilson Chandler whom the only numbers which are important is what is expected from next season in scoring (15 to 20), rebounds (4 to 7), assist (3 to 5), Steals (1), Blks (2), TO (2), Fouls (4), to average each game.
Did Wilson Chandler second season performance show he could produce these numbers in his third season???

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I think the last we should be worried about is the contracts.

Donnie Walsh makes every move just for cap space, that is his main goal so to stress dumping these guys is just not necessary.

Donnie has these high priced players because they are all getting out of here soon....in 2010 we are going to have a load of cap space and Donnie is surely going to make some more moves in the off season.

I may be in the minority here, but I think this will be a very quiet off season. There really isn't much they can get for Richardson, Hughes, Harrington and its probably better off to just let their contracts run out here.

I assume they will try very hard to get rid of 1 or both of Curry or Jefferies offering the 1st round pick, Lee or Robinson along with them. I'm going to say though that nothing comes up. With teams looking to not overpay this offseason for financial reasons, Lee and Robinson will wind up resigning at a cheaper price than we think. Still leaving enough room to sign 1 of James/Wade/Bosh/Stoudemire

So 2009/2010 I say looks like

Robinson
Chandler
Gallinari
Harrington
Lee

with Duhon, Hughes, Richardson, Jefferies, Curry, 1st round pick on the bench.

Then for the 2010/2011 off season you get a better idea of how Robinson/Lee/Chandler/Gallinari/1st round pick look on this team. You can still make a max contract FA signing and/orpackage 1 or 2 of Nate/Lee/Chandler/Gallinari/1st round pick with Curry/Jefferies to get a veteran player to support the FA signing.

there aren't many players on our roster right now that we'll be keeping (i don't think)...so while what you said may be a possibility, i think not doing a lot this off season would leave too much for us to have to do next off season...in getting rid of these big contracts, getting rid of the Q's and the like, as well as Nate and Lee, and getting players we can be happy with...we need to start building our team with players we want to keep this off season, i don't think we want to get our LeBron the same yr we get his surrounding cast...we need them to be jiving together i think before then

Those guys - Richardson, Hughes, Harrington, Duhon have only 1 year left on their contract anyway. What is the best you can get if you try to trade them? Not much at all... If you keep them for 1 more year they are gone anyway.

None of those players will have any effect on Lebron, Wade, Bosh or Stat's decision.

I'm actually happy with Nate and Lee. I think looking at 2010+, it will really be beneficial to have these 2 veteran players that are hardworking every day and have loyalty to the team. I think their roles have been inconsistent this year, as they should never be the best players on any team. I would love Nate Robinson as PG who can break down any defense, and look to pass first instead of putting up bad shots.

I'm hoping both don't get overpaid and settle for around 6-8 mil, because I doubt they will get much more on the open market.

However, hopefully in another year they won't be as pressured to be the franchise and carry the team. That job will belong to Chandler, Gallinari, 2009 pick, + FA signing in 2010+.

The first round of this playoff could be deadly if their are 2 or more teams getting swept....this could lead to teams opening up the trading-market big-time this offseason.

Teams with no interest in the 2010 FA's will be trading their ending contract players to teams with a 2010 plan.
And teams with 2010 Star FA's (Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Dirk, Joe Johnson, Prince, and Ginobli) will be open minded this offseason to trade for players with ending contracts.

Where does this put our Knicks? in a bad situation from having another losing season with high contract players whom trade value went down even lower than last offseason (no matter their ending contract) b/c of being apart of another losing season team.

Lee and Nate will search for winning teams that will give them a contract that the Knicks 2010 plan will not match.
Lee and Nate already built up a huge fan-base at the NBA Store in the city, adding another city with ours is a wise money-making decision.

Two years ago after a 33-win season we were talking about how deep and strong the depth of our Knick bench was.
Last year we all was talking about what players are Dantoni's type of players.
This year we are disgusted and want to strip the whole team clean....Except for Gallo...

I'm fine with Lee or Nate leaving. Even if Nate and Lee leave we will be compensated in someway. Since we have their Bird rights if they leave, Donnie will be smart enough to make them leave via a sign and trade. I Believe Lee will return because he has slowed down since the all star break and the economy is crap so his contract will be reasonable.

We will move Nate for either young inenxpensive talent, draft picks, or hopefully somebody will want Nate enough that they can package Curry or Jefferies with him.

Don't be shocked if Nate is dealt via a sign and trade with Jefferies to Sacremento for one of their awful expiring contracts.

I believe this offseason will be a massive one. We have a high draft pick, decent young players, and a ton of expiring contracts (something everybody in this league wants).

I'd expect us to pursue Bosh, Melo or Joe Johnson this offseason. We can use Nate, Lee, our draft pick, and big money expiring contracts as a way to land one of those big names that teams may unload. And the kicker is if we land a big player this offseason it doesn't effect the 2010 plan at all because once the player is on our team we can offer him money above the cap without it hurting our 2010 plan. Only thing it will effect is our luxury tax and i doubt Dolan cares about that.

If we land Bosh or a similiar player this offseason we will still be able to sign Lebron to a max deal and then reup Bosh or another player to a max deal.

First of all, the NYK should be focusing on the draft. Gallo is still TBD so he gets a pass. Last year we passed up on some very good talent that made an immediate impact in the NBA.

About the other players, I would just let their contracts expire unless there is a better player with the same length of contract.

We really need a PG and a decent Center!! I think the NYK should keep Lee and if they can package N8(although he is a favorite), get rid of Curry!!

I wasnt expecting much of the NYK this season, they at least had a little run where i thought they would take the 8th seed.

The Knicks had a lot of trades during the season, so D'Antoni constantly had a new team. That's hard to coach!!

I want FA wise Either Birdman, or Theo Ratliff. As they will come at low MLE numbers. To play the role of defensive stopper 15-20 mins a night. At this point in their careers neither are that good pure defenders due to being old, but it's much better than what we have and they will be able to swat a couple shots a game. Or try to convince memphis to swap Curry and Darko and a bad contract like Greg Buckner (who can only play D pretty much).

We can then attempt to trade for Chris Bosh. I'd trade David Lee and Al for him.

Then we need to get a pure shooter. To me Von Wafer (FA) is that guy.

And then pray to god that we get a PG in the draft. It wouldn't really matter whether or not Nate is on the roster if we got a pure PG in the draft.

No one likes Nate Robinson as a starting PG? Next year will pretty much be the same as this year where we will at best be a #7 or #8 seed. Why not experiment with Nate as the starting PG. If he works out then great you don't have to waste the #8 pick on a PG. If he doesn't work out then you look at the FA market and sign one the following year.

dave2138 said:

No one likes Nate Robinson as a starting PG? Next year will pretty much be the same as this year where we will at best be a #7 or #8 seed. Why not experiment with Nate as the starting PG. If he works out then great you don't have to waste the #8 pick on a PG. If he doesn't work out then you look at the FA market and sign one the following year.

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Because I don't want a 5'7" guard who, in a passing offense, averages under 5 APG, running the point. That's a recipe for another 50 loss season.

I'm hoping the knicks trade this draft pick for a pick next year because this years draft is pretty weak it seems...

Also, does anyone think the knicks might package their 1st with curry in order to get rid of him?

KBlack25 said:

Because I don't want a 5'7" guard who, in a passing offense, averages under 5 APG, running the point. That's a recipe for another 50 loss season.

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I think that if you give him the opportunity to be the starting point guard and learn to think like a point guard, his bad habits can change. We already know he break down any defense and is respected enough to be the top scorer any game.

We saw a few times when given the chance to be the PG with Duhon out, that he can get 7-10 assists while also scoring 15-25 points.

This last month or so might actually be a blessing that he struggled so much. His market value this off season might not be as high as we thought it would be around February.




If the plan is to trade Robinson, I don't think we'll get his full value in return either. Can a team really trust him to come in and be a full time starting PG? Probably not. The Knicks next year should have no intention of competing, and can afford to take that risk on him. If it pays off, you have a 16 point 8 assist per game point guard. If not, well you can still always trade him as his value probably won't be any less than it is now.

Nate isn't going to be the starting point guard we need anytime soon i don't think...he does have his explosiveness, and can score against anyone when he's hot, but idk if any team would want to risk having him as their starter, and i don't think the knicks are willing to wait too much longer in hopes that he develops into that guy..while he may be good as a starter few yrs down the road, he seems like a 6th man role in the league right now, and considering we don't have a starting pg, there's no need to have a marketabl bench pg...as Donnie says, it all depends on what deals come through...i think we'll get some pretty big offers though come this offseason...i don't think Nate or Lee have lessened their stock at all, everyone i think knows there capability when they on there game, so last few weeks doesn't mean anything far as thats concerned..it would be difficult i think to trade 1 for 1 with Nate talent wise, but i think we'll get some pretty appealing offers whether it be throwing Nate in with a few other players, or having someone take Curry off our hands involving Nate...i'd rather trade Nate and Lee for good players rather then just for okay players and getting Curry off the books though..all depends on whats offered...i do think both them (Nate . Lee) will be gone this off season though...we need to start the rebuilding asap with talent we want around...and i'm not sure Lee / Nate are the foundation of that anymore

If Nate and Lee aren't good enough to keep as role players on the knicks..what makes you think they will have any trade value around the league? This is what I really don't understand when you guys try to explain why its best to move Nate and/or Lee.

If you say that these 2 only benefit from playing in our system and wouldn't be as good anywhere else, then I'm sure the rest of the league knows that too. If you say Lee/Nate aren't good enough to make 8-10 mil per year, then I'm sure the rest of the league is aware of that also.

I think that just like in baseball this off season where teams didn't want to give out big contracts (except the yankees); The same will go on in basketball this off season. The salary cap has been lowered, and for the reasons stated on why Nate and Lee are not worth 8-10 mil/year on the knicks, that goes for the rest of the nba.

If you can get Nate and Lee at around 6 mil per year, which I think is still realistic, I say its a no brainer to keep them both. Then just let Hughes/Harrington/Richardson/Duhon's contracts expire after this year.

this team needs picks.

we might not end up addressing the need at the point, if bpa is better than the point left at our pick.we have to go BPA.even if that means earl clark.many things can happen from now, to the lottery,to the draft, to the start of the season.this team is too bad to draft off of need.

i see oklahoma ending up with griffin and sac ending up with rubio.if we can come away with harden, clark, or derozan that be a pretty good pick.
may people feel derozan will be better than he has shown at usc, instead of sliding chandler over to the two just draft the kid with the most upside.

lee and nate should be signed and traded for 2010 first round picks.
if no rubio or jennings, wall would be a nice fit next year

We can't keep all these players on our roster and just wait for their contracts to expire...we not only need new talent in exchange for them, we need to do it as soon as possible so we can start building....we can't just push everything off till the next off season and expect to not only get all these new players then, but to get them all and for them to mesh well with the new hopeful star

Knicker23 said:

We can't keep all these players on our roster and just wait for their contracts to expire...we not only need new talent in exchange for them, we need to do it as soon as possible so we can start building....we can't just push everything off till the next off season and expect to not only get all these new players then, but to get them all and for them to mesh well with the new hopeful star

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Why can't we? I thought the whole point of the Randolph/Crawford moves was to get under the cap by 2010. What did you plan on getting for Hughes/Richardson/Harrington/Duhon? More bad contracts? Baron Davis/Gilbert Arenas/Kirk Hinrich? I don't want anything to do with the options available. Bosh/Nash/Chandler, will probably cost too much this offseason now that they are only a year away from FA. Their teams will only trade them unless they get some good young talent or draft picks, something we don't have excess of to trade.

Lets be realistic...The best thing the Knicks can do, is to look forward to 2010+. 2009 should be another throw away year, and just wait for Hughes/Richardson/Harrington/Mobley/Duhon's contracts to expire. There is nothing the Knicks can do to make this team one of the best in the East this off season with the trading pieces they have. Resign Nate and Lee, but don't be pressured into trading them.

If you really want to trade Nate and Lee..wait until the 2010 off season, sign Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Stat..then package Nate and/or Lee with some future draft picks + 2 expiring contracts of Curry and Jefferies to get another elite player. I don't see the rush in trading Nate or Lee now.

the trades they make will be in the interest of making us better this season and long term.. obviously everything we've been doing has been to get under the cap, but i suspect as Breen said this will be an eventful off season and we'll start makin moves as far as trying to build the team with players we want around for a long time...as i said, waiting for everything to expire and hoping for one gigantic off season next yr where we land ever piece to our team isn't going to happen..were going to start pickn and choosing who we want and who we don' this off season...and hopefully some trades / offers will make the happen...all of course maintaining the main goal we already met of being able to sign James... wont be as big as next off season, but putting the pieces into place for the structure and path of this team will begin this off season