the jrue holiday bandwagon thread.

with all due respect fellas, this is the guy we need.he could be frazier esque in my opinion.in order for this team to make the playoffs next year, we need players who'll actually play defense.
21 - Jrue Holiday

UCLA

• Birthday: 6/12/90
• NBA Position: PG/SG
• Class: Freshman
• Ht: 6-3
• Wt: 205
• Hometown: North Hollywood, CA
• High School: Campbell Hall
• Team Site Profile
• Statistics

(holiday-chandler-gallinari-harrington-camby)
(the first half of highlights are of jrue, the other about derozan, but he'll be a goner)


<object width="425" height="344">
(NOW I WANT JRUE IF GRIFFIN,OR RUBIO, OR DEROZAN ARE GONE )

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5b7yBr-yXIY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

according to nba draft express.

STRENGTHS

executes offensively
pick and roll play
versatility
ability to create his own shot
change gears/hesitation moves
ability to fight through screens
ability to get in passing lanes
all around defense
versatility to defend multiple positions
basketball IQ
likelihood of reaching potential
role player potential
unselfishness
winning mentality
work ethic
positional versatility
young for class
court vision
solid passer
ability to finish around the basket
nba body
size for position
wingspan
excellent rebounder




http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jrue-Holiday-1108/
but he's got his weaknesses as well.




Not even Mr. October could help the Knicks.
With Reggie Jackson on hand to provide good luck to Allan Houston, the Knicks remained in the No. 8 draft position after the NBA lottery.
Houston bumped into the Yankees adviser this afternoon at a charity function.
"He asked me if I had a good-luck charm, I said, no, and he said, 'How about me?'" Houston said.
Jackson offered to go to Secaucus and sit in the studios to try to get the Knicks a top pick. Jackson left Yankee Stadium last night at 7 and arrived in time for the lottery at 8:30.
"When you get to be my age and people ask you to do something and you get a meal out of it, I'm in," Jackson said. "Actually, I know the Dolan family and love the Knicks."
The Knicks, seeded eighth, had a 2.8 percent chance of winning the top pick and 10 percent overall chance of moving up to the top three.
The top three picks went to the L.A. Clippers, Memphis Grizzlies and Oklahoma City Thunder.
With the Knicks at No. 8, Walsh admitted Davidson guard Stephen Curry would be a target. Walsh said he goes into the draft very conscious of taking a player who fits into Mike D'Antoni's free-for-all system.
"I think there aren't a lot of guys who can't fit the system in the top 10," Walsh said. "We're looking for good, all-around players who are defensively inclined. There are a lot of good all-around players. I think it requires guys who have all-around capabilities."

The Knicks' three building blocks are David Lee, Wilson Chandler and Danilo Gallinari, all power forwards. :teeth: good ole berman.

Yeah I'm torn between him and Curry, Curry will be a better scorer, but Jrue is going to be a better PG. The NBA comparison is Rodney Stuckey for Jrue and Curry is compared to Bibby. I actually think he is going to be Kirk Hinrich type PG who is a player I want the Knicks to trade for. Jrue could be a player who we look back on this draft like why did he get picked so low, one of those potential steal or bust types.

But consider he played in a slow half court system and that is why he performed below expectation, this could be the system that allows him to break out.

What are u thinking???

ANU said:

with all due respect fellas, this is the guy we need.he could be frazier esque in my opinion.in order for this team to make the playoffs next year, we need players who'll actually play defense.
(holiday-chandler-gallinari-harrington-camby)
(the first half of highlights are of jrue, the other about derozan, but he'll be a goner)


<object width="425" height="344">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5b7yBr-yXIY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

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holiday-chandler-gallinari-harrington-camby????? Chandler once again out of position (something that should be done only out of need) Harrington play defense? Gallo who just had a vertibre shaved in his back play Defense? Camby who is what 36... great another aged, one dimensional replacement good for what, 1 - 2 yrs? A rookie could be expected to do the same. All in all with all due respect this isn't very well thought out and is the result of more Fandom evidenced by the Frazior comparisons- FAIL! [With all due respect]

New New York said:

Yeah I'm torn between him and Curry, Curry will be a better scorer, but Jrue is going to be a better PG. The NBA comparison is Rodney Stuckey for Jrue and Curry is compared to Bibby. I actually think he is going to be Kirk Hinrich type PG who is a player I want the Knicks to trade for. Jrue could be a player who we look back on this draft like why did he get picked so low, one of those potential steal or bust types.

But consider he played in a slow half court system and that is why he performed below expectation, this could be the system that allows him to break out.

Click to expand...

eace:

Red said:

holiday-chandler-gallinari-harrington-camby????? Chandler once again out of position (something that should be done only out of need) Harrington play defense? Gallo who just had a vertibre shaved in his back play Defense? Camby who is what 36... great another aged, one dimensional replacement good for what, 1 - 2 yrs? A rookie could be expected to do the same. All in all with all due respect this isn't very well thought out and is the result of more Fandom evidenced by the Frazior comparisons- FAIL! [With all due respect]

Click to expand...

does it have to be?:teeth: its a forum.I'm just throwing shit out there.this ain't a term paper.
bottom line is, we need holiday.

i agree the more i watch his tapes the more i like his game and think he could translate into a great all round player in the NBA and for our Knicks.

he's one of those guys who plays defense and plays smart on the offensive end.


Walsh we missed out on Westbrook last year if Holiday is on the board take him

DaTPRiNCE said:

i agree the more i watch his tapes the more i like his game and think he could translate into a great all round player in the NBA and for our Knicks.

he's one of those guys who plays defense and plays smart on the offensive end.


Walsh we missed out on Westbrook last year if Holiday is on the board take him

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exactly prince.for me, in order for dantoni to have a championship caliber team, he's going to have to have players like chandler and holiday(and maybe even gallo a bit).players who can be pretty good on both ends.

ANU said:

exactly prince.for me, in order for dantoni to have a championship caliber team, he's going to have to have players like chandler and holiday(and maybe even gallo a bit).players who can be pretty good on both ends.

Click to expand...

Not being too critical but to label a rookie- Harrington & Gallo as "good defenders" is a stretch. for me, in order for dantoni to have a championship caliber team, he's going to have to: STOP BEING STUBBORN AND LET THE 7 SECONDS OR LESS PHILOSOPHY GO!!!!!! 1.Too many factors have to come into place for it to work 2. It's o.k. in theory but practically the exact opposite has been PROVEN to work. 3. It is unproven 4. It is limited and easily thwarded. 5. The CONS outway the PRO'S as to how effective it is. Should I go on? Bottom line, if our philosophy isn't solid then we will be drafting the WRONG types, playing the wrong types probably out of position and not producing good results. What I see is Walsh not buying into this ill-conceived philosophy and forcing D'Antoni to accept defensive minded players. He gave him enough shooters and look at the results: His 7 sec's or less looked like the 30 wins or less offense. Walsh keeps mentioning Defensive players and lack of interior players. He knows what's up! If D'antoni doesn't adapt he will be gone after next year.

Red said:

Not being too critical but to label a rookie- Harrington & Gallo as "good defenders" is a stretch. for me, in order for dantoni to have a championship caliber team, he's going to have to: STOP BEING STUBBORN AND LET THE 7 SECONDS OR LESS PHILOSOPHY GO!!!!!! 1.Too many factors have to come into place for it to work 2. It's o.k. in theory but practically the exact opposite has been PROVEN to work. 3. It is unproven 4. It is limited and easily thwarded. 5. The CONS outway the PRO'S as to how effective it is. Should I go on? Bottom line, if our philosophy isn't solid then we will be drafting the WRONG types, playing the wrong types probably out of position and not producing good results. What I see is Walsh not buying into this ill-conceived philosophy and forcing D'Antoni to accept defensive minded players. He gave him enough shooters and look at the results: His 7 sec's or less looked like the 30 wins or less offense. Walsh keeps mentioning Defensive players and lack of interior players. He knows what's up! If D'antoni doesn't adapt he will be gone after next year.

Click to expand...

holiday is considered by some scouts as the best defensive pg in this draft.
harrington's defense was pretty decent,what he does is take stupid shots.
gallo's defense was a surpise.many thought he'd be terrible.obviously, he needs to improve on his man to man, but you get the idea.

from tommy dee at knicks blog

Yes, you can equate the great play of the Denver Nuggets to several things, most importantly maybe is the arrival of Chauncey Billups.
But the team has also dedicated itself to the defensive end, especially the perimeter.
Defending the perimeter, in addition to ball pressure, is the key to good half court defense. It used to be that you’d want a solid post defender first and foremost, but with the lack of capable post centers in the league these days it is more important to stop a slashing perimeter player from getting in the paint than it is stopping a big man from posting you up 40 times a game.
As always, I point to the Xs and Os of basketball for further explanation.

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George Karl was a very offensive-minded coach who found success in building championship-level teams in Seattle. He did, however, have the game’s best defensive guard in Gary Payton.
Can the Knicks get themselves to a point where they, defensively, dedicate themselves to guarding the perimeter in a short period of time thus shedding Mike D’Antoni’s offense only reputation?
It would seem to me, like the example of the Nuggets, that you get to a point where you have to focus defensively knowing full-well that you can score. It is that perfect mesh that seems to be a great recipe for NBA playoff success and one the Knicks ultimately should follow.

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http://www.theknicksblog.com/2009/05/13/defending-the-perimeter-has-nuggets-surging/

chandler at the 2 wasn't my idea.they've been flirting with this for some time.

holiday chandler with gallo's length on the perimeter would be pretty good defensively, imo.

maybe
holiday-chandler-gallinari-harrington-camby
sounds a little better:shrug:

i like tyreke evans better. but i wouldn't be upset.

from some article http://phillyhoops.wordpress.com/2009/04/22/tyreke-evans-says-hes-leaving-memphis-for-nba-draft/

"I saw Tyreke play twice live this past season, and I can only scout what I saw," the NBA source said. "Cal did a good job when he finally put the ball in Tyreke's hands. Cal made him a willing passer. But don't get the wrong idea; Tyreke's not a point guard. He's a wing with a great handle. Tyreke has great size, he can finish, he gets to the line a lot, and can rebound and lead the break. There are a lot of things I like about him. He'll be a lottery pick and a really good player, with a chance to be an All-Star. I have to admit, I'm a fan of Anyone 6-6 and that talented, you have to be.
"There's nothing wrong with being Larry Hughes. He had an opportunity to be a special player; without all the injuries, he could have been an All-Star. I'm rooting for Tyreke to make it. He had a great freshman year. We'll watch and see where he winds up."

and if he's not there when we pick, give the pick to utah, so just in case we suck again, we'll have a chance at john wall.

Anu... let's put this into context: The Nuggets added Billups a veteran, HOF, defensive minded former champion. And added him to a cast consisting of All Star Melo, and front court of NeNe and former semi-star Martin not to mention the under rated JR Smith. Hardly the knicks line up. I agree a PG is very important (btw our perimeter d improved w/ Hughes) but we are far from Denver w/ talent. Ask yourself who's won more teams w Good PGs or teams w quality Bigs? A PG should be our 2nd priority not our 1st.

I definitely wouldn't mind Holiday. Great defender, good passer, can create his own shot.

ANU said:

and if he's not there when we pick, give the pick to utah, so just in case we suck again, we'll have a chance at john wall.

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I'm pretty sure we will have to give up next years pick as part of the Maurby deal. Can someone verify it.

TheBigCock said:

I'm pretty sure we will have to give up next years pick as part of the Maurby deal. Can someone verify it.

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Thats the absolute truth, no need to verify it. Isiah traded away next year's pick in the Marbury deal.

Can't shoot, not pure PG.

I kinda like Lawson man, but we'll se what happens with this draft pick. I would love to move up, but it will be a but challenging. I just hope Walsh does something creative or @ least draft the right player.

at this point id rather trade down to unload some money or add a future pick... move to somwhere between the 10 and 15 range and pick up either a johnny flynn, jrue , or ty lawson

flynn is a true floor general that can play defense run a team and score
he is a true point guard with the flashyness of a nate robinson without a shoot first attitude.... he has a very high upside and if he had stayed one more year in college would have been a top 3 pick... he will be a big sleeper in this draft ... also if you play optimist and are hoping for lebron or wade in the future lebron loves flynn and spoke with him encouraging him to go into the draft so having him may be a good draw

jrue knows how to play the game... hes young but is naturally gifted and knows how to score and play defense... right now i do not know if he can run an nba team but going into college he was an all american pg... he can definately do it given the right amount of time... His shot will come with work and in time he will be a special player in the long run do to his versatility

ty lawson is the floor general nut shell... he has less upside then the two mentioned before but is probably most matured... he can run a team and take a team on his back emotionaly and mentally in crunch time as shown in the ncaa tournament

another plus about all three of these players are that they have the right attitudes for new york... they will not be the next marbury and will be able to handle criticism and not let there egos get the best of them



I say we get a good head of the team to run hte offense... point guard is a good spot for this...then maybe if we get a pick for next year we can pick up a good bigman like greg monroe or ed davis
either way i want to stay away from stephen curry because while he is a special talent he is undersized for the nba is used to being the focal point of the offense which he will not be in the nba as a pure shooter and in my mind he comes from a team that played in a subpar conference and struggled against good teams... he played one year at point guard and who knows if he will be affective against nba players at that position when other players will be bigger and stronger.... to me i dont want to gamble here and i want to go with a proven pg that can work on shooting....
a sg is easier to find than a good floor general like flynn or jrue

TheBigCock said:

I'm pretty sure we will have to give up next years pick as part of the Maurby deal. Can someone verify it.

Click to expand...

portega1968 said:

Thats the absolute truth, no need to verify it. Isiah traded away next year's pick in the Marbury deal.

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i believe the deal runs out next draft.we can give them this one, or that 1.

Red said:

Anu... let's put this into context: The Nuggets added Billups a veteran, HOF, defensive minded former champion. And added him to a cast consisting of All Star Melo, and front court of NeNe and former semi-star Martin not to mention the under rated JR Smith. Hardly the knicks line up. I agree a PG is very important (btw our perimeter d improved w/ Hughes) but we are far from Denver w/ talent. Ask yourself who's won more teams w Good PGs or teams w quality Bigs? A PG should be our 2nd priority not our 1st.

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the link was a reference to their perimeter defense, and how our players could do the same.

holiday is almost as young as rubio.