Douglas is better than Duhon.

"Mike D'Antoni's third change to the starting lineup in four games finally came up a winner. The Knicks got off to a good start but more importantly put the finish on a 117-111 victory over the New Orleans Hornets at the Garden last night.

"The pieces are just falling into place a little bit," D'Antoni said after he recorded his 300th career win and 33rd with the Knicks. "I don't want to get ahead of myself, we still have a long way to go to get where we're going, but we were much better tonight and we took a gigantic step forward, for sure."

Larry Hughes completed the outhouse-to-penthouse move as he went from a pair of DNP's in the first two games of the season to the starting shooting guard position and his contribution - 20 points, six rebounds - makes one wonder what made D'Antoni opt to leave him on the bench in the first place."


Hopefully this teaches this stubborn f*ck that the better players are on the bench. Starting Jeffries...SMH:td::shrug:

This dummy took 2 years to find a starting line up! Let's see how long this lasts.

Sorry to say but...

Hughes is our best SG.

And Douglas with work can probably be better than Duhon [already] especially defensively.

Knicks might be better without undersized N8- it forces others to get minutes and step up.

why is Douglas not getting more miutes or touches???? its pissing me off we need him more now that Nate Robinson is injured

Have you watched any games?

Douglas is tentative as ****. Kid is too nervous and jumpy.

Plus he takes terrible shots.

Duhon > Douglas right now

Its not even close.

yea ide have to agree, douglas has a hard time picking his spots. he hustles, but thats all he has to offer right now. he seriously reminds me of will bynum in allot of ways, and I think thats the best you are going to get out of him

TD is a bit tentative out there but that's ok. He needs to get through that initial period as a rookie where the large arena crowds and being on TV every game get to you.

I already know he can produce, he just needs some confidence. Rookies who are only given a few minutes each game sometimes look tentative because their only playing to not make mistakes. Even though I feel TD has the better skill set, I wouldn't say he's better than Duhon right now.

TunerAddict said:

Have you watched any games?

Douglas is tentative as ****. Kid is too nervous and jumpy.

Plus he takes terrible shots.

Duhon > Douglas right now

Its not even close.

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honestly i havent watched any work and school, but i been following and i look at the box scores and i see 6-7 minutes or w.e and i think whys he not playing loll

Red, I don't necessarily think the knicks are better off without Nate. Talent wise, he's better than almost everyone(gallo). Its more that d'antoni is not utilizing him the right way. With better coaching most of the players we have would be maximizing their skills.

Talent: Douglas
Experience: Duhon

SLY1984 said:

Red, I don't necessarily think the knicks are better off without Nate. Talent wise, he's better than almost everyone(gallo). Its more that d'antoni is not utilizing him the right way. With better coaching most of the players we have would be maximizing their skills.

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Really? I think it's the opposite. Under another coach, I think most of our players would look a lot worse.

SLY1984 said:

Red, I don't necessarily think the knicks are better off without Nate. Talent wise, he's better than almost everyone(gallo). Its more that d'antoni is not utilizing him the right way. With better coaching most of the players we have would be maximizing their skills.

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I don't think it's a question of D'antoni utilizing Nate properly. I think Nate goes out there and does what Nate wants to do, and when his shot's not falling, he's more concerned with running his mouth to the refs than he is with playing defense. How many time have we seen Nate get into personal scoring matches with the player he is guarding, then he completely stops running the offense and repeatedly goes one on one. Nate is just one of those guys that's a knucklehead, no coach will ever be able to get through to him...

SLY1984 said:

Red, I don't necessarily think the knicks are better off without Nate. Talent wise, he's better than almost everyone(gallo). Its more that d'antoni is not utilizing him the right way. With better coaching most of the players we have would be maximizing their skills.

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The thing I've learned regarding franchises and player evaluation is: When you have a questionable player i.e. N8, Lee etc... you have to learn to seperate being a fan -vs- an evaluator. N8 doesn't suck (neither does Lee or Duhon) but consider this... IF you had a more complete player WOULD you be questioning the play or minutes or production of these players? We are trying so hard to go outside the box to make up for dificiencies that we missed the fact that our players don't possess the natural skills to achieve fundamental goals. By harboring such players we not only effect the whole system but we neglect to address the need. N8 is N8. There is no need for further evaluation on him. We know he's undersized, fast, and streaky. This is ideal on a team needing a change of pace. Lee is limited and a compliment, best suited on a contender off the bench or next to a quality big. Duhon is a good back up best on a contender with little expectations, I realize this. So in short NONE of these players has what's needed to improve! That said minutes that are allocated to players of this calliber exacerbate the issue. Players like Douglas and Hughes although limited actually have more of what is needed (defensively) than N8, Lee and Du. Therefore now that you are forced to live w/o appeasing these players the more you see how more all around players are needed. The undersize-mismatch-inconsistant rotations and questionable roles over years shows the right players aren't the "stars" of this team.

to elaborate...

please no 2K bashing but... when I run a franchise (NYK's) I go through this (which is similar to real life). Damn what do I do w/ N8? He's one of my highest rated players he needs to start. Then after a few games I realize I need someone to play D, slow the penitration and knock down outside shots when swung to him. Not a primary scorer. Just facilitate and play D. Since his rating is higher than Du, I'm conflicted- Du does what I need better but slow and N8 is rated higher- what to do? The same with Lee. He's my highest rated PF but he's not doing what I need on defense and is limited on Off. but Jordan Hill is somewhat more athletic- what to do Lee is rated higher?

I try every rotation combo possible (sound familiar?) and the results continue... . Then I get into my f*ck-it mode and let go Lee or N8 (its hard b/c I want to win with them being homegrown) and who I get is a player that Excells in "what I need him to do". Not the most expensive or highest rated but fits the pedigree of what I need. My type that plays my game. Problem is D'Antonis' game is flawed. N8, Lee even Chandler etc... DONT FIT THE PEDIGREE. They do not fit what is needed either limited by natural ability or whatever. Either too short, slow, inconsistant whatever. Stop trying to make them something they are not.

Stop trying to squeeze blood from a stone. Realize the more you deny and work around the more you neglect getting those who do fit onto the floor. Hughes although limited is our best SG period. Douglas although raw is/ can be our best PG. Lee ISN'T A CENTER and his limitations make him and N8 completely expendable. I don't want these 2 back here for any amount of money! I can achieve these same results with less than half this payroll. I need players that fit the pedigree at least on a basic athletic level (not mentioning intangibles like leadership). Not superstars but those who at least have the natural ability to learn and get better. Lee and N8 are Lee and N8, you will never see anything more from them... Its time to realize this and move on!

LOIOSH30 said:

I don't think it's a question of D'antoni utilizing Nate properly. I think Nate goes out there and does what Nate wants to do, and when his shot's not falling, he's more concerned with running his mouth to the refs than he is with playing defense. How many time have we seen Nate get into personal scoring matches with the player he is guarding, then he completely stops running the offense and repeatedly goes one on one. Nate is just one of those guys that's a knucklehead, no coach will ever be able to get through to him...

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What are you retarded??? Nate was averaging 30 minutes a game last season. It was d'antoni's CHOICE to play him that much. Now, I like nate as a player, but if he's fukkin up I would take away minutes. That's what I was referring to when I talked about d'antoni's utilization of players. Its total bullshit. He doesn't know how to plug in players at certain spots.

The only reason Nate averaged 30 min last year was him and Al were the only players that could score... If D'antoni had his choice Nate wouldn't even be on this team, look at all the guys we tried to get this summer, if we had got even one of them, Nate would not be on this team...

I base my view on facts not on weak emotions. 30 minutes a game for nate means mr. Pringles loves you. Its a fact. Look what he did to marbury. No love, no ball action (no homo).



Now back to the point at hand:


I'm telling y'all, d'antoni's utilization of players is SHITTY.

JayJ44 said:

Really? I think it's the opposite. Under another coach, I think most of our players would look a lot worse.

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Offensively, of course. But all around, our players would be better off with other coaches. Plus, d'antoni is making mediocre players feel like future hall-of-famers. Which means they want a higher cash-flow for skills that are figments of our imagination.

did u see Douglas last night? I couldn't watch tho whole game, saw he had 21.Douglas > Dohun give him the rock

Douglas played really well last night.

I say we should start with him. Duhon is a dreadful player so even though Douglas is inexperienced and a little tentative we should start with him.

Consider this also. If this is a transition year and it`s all about building the future isn`t it better to play Douglas so as to get him good experience so that next season he is really ready to go and will have used this season to develop. Surely that`s btter than giving him a few minutes here and there behind Duhon and Robinson.

Put it this way there's no way our team can get any worse if we start Douglas; Duhon might be the worst starting Point Guard in the entire league.