The Knicks have turned the corner! Here's why....

Not sure what I was impressed with most last night... The 39-point 1st quarter, the hard, aggressive effort the team displayed coming out firing after the half, the 100 points in 3-quarters, or (lost in all of the fun last night) the fact that the Knicks held the NBA's best offense to it's first sub-100 point game this season.

The team had 50 rebounds (19 on the offensive glass), 31 assists, 12 steals (to only 10 turnovers), 7 blocks, and they almost took 30 free throws!

We saw it against the Nets, against BOS and DEN... This team can play well when they want (if that means they need their offense going, or they simply need to bring it every night- who knows).

Here's my keys to the next 30 games (B/C once we pass the trade deadline, it's going to be all about the kids- getting Hill, Douglas, Landry 15 minutes a night; while centering the offense around Gallo, and seeing growth in Chandler):

===================

Our GUARD situation:

Duhon (PG)
Hughes (SG)

These 2 guys are the starters and should play about 30 minutes each night!

I know folks are killing Duhon- and I am one culprit- but we need to realize that <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1lace w:st="on">Douglas</st1lace> cans core and play defense, but he can't run the offense right now. Duhon is the only PG who can run the pick and roll.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o></o>
Duhon was fantastic the first 40-50 games last year. he's been awful the first 15 games, but he seems like he's startng to snap out of his funk.<o></o>
<o></o>
Duhon and Hughes are and should be our starting backcourt. Simple as that.... N8 is too one-dimensional. N8's role is to get some minutes, see if he's hot and go from there. If we need a jolt in the 4th quarter, we bring out the gimp and let N8 go to work (which will depend on matchup issues mostly).<o></o>
<o></o>
<st1lace w:st="on">Douglas</st1lace> is a rookie. He's a work in progress. He can score, slash, shoot and play defense, but he's not really ready to handle PG duties. Bottom line is this: on nights where Duhon and Hughes are playing well, and N8 is giving quality something.... well, there just aren't enough minutes for <st1lace w:st="on">Douglas</st1lace>. He needs to stay ready and prepared, and show the he can improve his weaknesses when he gets his chance.

Our FORWARD situation:

Wilson Chandler
Danillo Gallinari

We know, we've been told it, and it's obvious that these 2 kids are a BIG part of our future (even if that means we have to trade WC for a player). I think we saw last night, that good things will happen if we run the offense through Gallo. This is where Hughes is so valuable b/c he realizes that. Gallo's performance owes credit to Larry. I want to see more of it.

Gallo should see over 30 minutes a night (and close to 20 shots). Chandler's minutes will depend on his play. HIs effort on the glass, on defense, and his energy on offense (slashing, cutting, getting to the foul line) will dictate if his mind is in the game.... if not.... Harrington and N8 stand to see more time.

AL HARRINGTON is our 6th man, scoring machine off the bench. If he's hot you stick with him until he's cool. He's also a go-to option in the 4th, and should supplant Gallo-Chandler-Lee-Duhon-Hughes down the stretch if one is playing poorly that night. Like Chandler, enforce and impose the rule that we want variety on offense, not just long range bombing.

Our CENTER situation:

David Lee

He starts at center, and must live with playing out of position. If we get Gallo shooting the rock, then Duhon and Lee go to work on the pick and roll. If he's not rebounding, or is disappearing on offense, then we can sub him out and bring in a scoring option in Harrington or N8, or a defensive workhorse like Jeffries.

I'm not sure why Darko is getting nothing, and is in the dog house or something. I would advocate giving him minutes, but now it's sort of too late. I thought the idea was to giv ehim every opportunity to prove that we found a steal.... a gem, and that we could move fwd this year with a legit, young bog man who could excel in D'ant's system. BUT, here we are 18 games into the season and he's longing for a return to Europe.

BUT, if/when Curry returns.... Well he should should get his minutes 10-15 for a while,a dn then slowly work his way up to around 24 or so. If he plays well, he garners more and might even work his way into the starting lineup.

This leaves Hill in no-man's land though (along with Landry). The 3 kids are going to have to sit and bide their time for now. They should not be in the rotation. They get garbage time that's it. If the vets don;t bring it on a given night, and are playing poorly as a collective unit- then yank them and let the kids go to work.

==================

Basically, the next 30 games should be about the starting 5 (Duhon, Hughes, Gallo, Chandler, Lee), with Harrington as the 6th man, and N8 as that burst of energy off the bench; with Jeffries doing the grunt, dirty work, and with the hope that Curry can work his way back into the fold. That's your 9-man rotation.

We'll evaluate where we are after the trade deadline.... BUT, if we are still 10 games under .500 then I start this 5:

Douglas
Chandler
Gallo
Lee
Darko

Harrington is still my 6th man; Landry and Hill are big parts of the rotation, and then scraps are thrown to whichever vet is hungriest.

Curry wont be tradeable this season, so if he's healthy then I would start him with Darko or Lee. We could still hope to trade Curry before the draft....

I think there's a legit shot we could trade Lee, Jeffries, Hughes & Duhon before the deadline. This is why you have to continue to play them for now. I also think we could snag a young PG, or a draft selection along with dumping JJ's salary.

N8 might be the lost cause. Doubt we can deal him, and I bench him after the deadline.

I hope to bring back Harrington, so he can be our 6th man for the next 2-3 years.

Sighh.

Again, I can't stress this enough... the reason why Knick fans are so suprised by how bad the team is doing is because of delusions like the ones above.

First people are saying they want Lawrence Frank...now dudes are thinking we "turned a corner"

This current roster will be 86% gone in two seasons, so lets just ease up on the predictions and settle down. Some of you guys sound completley ridicoulous.

Imagine you guys on Inside the NBA with Chuck Kenny and Cweb trying to come out with these absurd claims. lol I seriously think the entire studio would be on the floor laughing for the entire show, with Ernie patting you on the shoulder and leading you to the exit.

Of the current roster, we should keep Lee, Hughes, Harrington, Chandler, Gallo, Duhon and Jeffries, but with different contracts of course.
I don't know if I'm the only one to like Jeffries, but I like his atittude, he can rebound, steal, block and help the team with the dirty work, of course, he's not a player that deserves 5 or 6 million, but a 2-year 1mil each season would be good, and I doubt someone will give him more than that.

Ewing said:

I don't know if I'm the only one to like Jeffries, but I like his atittude, he can rebound, steal, block and help the team with the dirty work, of course, he's not a player that deserves 5 or 6 million, but a 2-year 1mil each season would be good, and I doubt someone will give him more than that.

Click to expand...

well since 'ugly' is signed this/next year, next year at 6m, talking 2011/2012 is sort of a waste as he won't be here at any price...

I think now is the time to trade Al Harrington and Larry Hughes. Their trade value won't get any higher than it is now.

If you can work out a deal where we trade 1 or both of them in exchange for worthless expiring contracts + a late 1st or early 2nd round pick...they have to do it in my opinion.

Al Harrington and Larry Hughes should be pretty valuable as expiring contracts. Perhaps if we pair that up with Eddy Curry and/or Jared Jeffries we might be able to dump their salaries. Obviously, our current record is less important than creating cap room, so...

Their values should be higher, but I don't think high enough that a team will be willing to take back Curry or Jefferies.

What about Hughes + Harrington + 2nd round pick(Clippers) for Tmac + 2010 1st round pick lottery protected. Its doubtful that Tmac is going to provide much help for them this year, but they should still be a borderline playoff team. Ariza is their best scorer right now, so seems like they would have the need for a legit 20 ppg scorer in Harrington + good defensive player in Hughes.

San Antonio and Phoenix might be 2 other teams that might trade a 1st round pick for some more depth on the bench. Phoenix already traded to their pick to the Thunder so would have to work something else out.

It would be great to get rid of Curry and/or Jefferies by using Harrington or Hughes as trade bait, but if that won't work...2nd best thing would be to get some picks in return.

Starks said:

Sighh.

Again, I can't stress this enough... the reason why Knick fans are so suprised by how bad the team is doing is because of delusions like the ones above.

First people are saying they want Lawrence Frank...now dudes are thinking we "turned a corner"

This current roster will be 86% gone in two seasons, so lets just ease up on the predictions and settle down. Some of you guys sound completley ridicoulous.

Imagine you guys on Inside the NBA with Chuck Kenny and Cweb trying to come out with these absurd claims. lol I seriously think the entire studio would be on the floor laughing for the entire show, with Ernie patting you on the shoulder and leading you to the exit.

Click to expand...

I'm not the typical Knicks fan then.. I know Mike D'Antoni is a great coach and Donnie Walsh is a fantastic vp

People need to calm down about this win...it was ONE win guys. We are still a terrible team and theres no way around it.

Yes, there are moments where we don't look like complete crap. (last night) but thats no reason to be so overjoyed...do you not remember all the other games where we looked like a D-league team.

As to Hughes and Big Gay Al, there trade value is not going to soar after one good game, they need to repeat this night in and night out for at least a few weeks before anyone takes either of them seriously enough to trade for even with those expiring contracts.

Also...seriously? you want duduhon to play 30 minutes a game? ... im just going to have to assume you've only watched 1 knicks game all year.

Not even talking about Harrington and Hughes boosting their trade values after 1 game. Harrington has been good all year off the bench which is something that playoff contending teams would want...depth off the bench. Hughes has been great defensively thus far.

Its definitely realistic to think that some team would offer an early 2nd or late 1st for 1 of them.

Same goes for Lee or Robinson...It would be a waste for any of those 4, Lee, Robinson, Hughes, Harrington to be on this team the entire year if there were any potential trades out there.

TO STARKS AND OUSH:

You both might have missed the gist of where I was going, or maybe I wasn't clear enough in emphasizing what I was meaning...

My basic overall message was that I am finally at peace with the losing this season. IN NO WAY did I mean, or do I envision, that the Knicks will use this win as some sort of catapult that propels them to a 40 win season.

I was disgusted with the back-2-back games against NJ-BOS, b/c it just proved that we don't even try in games against CHA-SAC.

The biggest reason I think we turned a corner is b/c Gallo prved that he is the future, and he can be the focal point of this season- and that Larry Hughes understood that and went out of his way (almost) to help this kid get going. Gallo block shots, rebounded and drained 3s. I think we'll see more and more of this.

ALSO, we all know Duhon has been a disaster, but he's the only PG we have who can run the pick and roll. He has been playing much better of late as well. Calling for N8 to run the show is a joke.

N8 is not serious or professional. He spent the haltime shooting left-handed. I'll live with Duhon's poor play any day over N8. Robinson will give you one strong performance every 5-6 games, but it's just not worth it. He's a cancer.

Toney Douglas aint ready to drive the car yet.

SO, we did turn a corner b/c I think Duhon-Hughes work well together. Sure, some nights they'll be off.... BUT, stay tuned, b/c I think most nights they're going to give you effort.

I realize: Gallo, Chandler, Hill, Douglas, Jeffries, Curry, Landry and (either Lee, Harrington, Hughes) will be here in 2010.

BUT, when I saw we turned a corner.... I also meant that if Hughes-Duhon-Jeffries play a lot like they did against PHO, then teams will think about trading for them.

AND, when I said turned a corner, I meant it more to have to do with me accepting that (until the trading deadline) we're just going to have to live with watching the vets. I now understand why this is so.

This is why I mentioned the next 30 games.

The era of the kids will begin after the deadline.

Still, if we get solid play from the Duhon-Hughes duo, if Curry returns, and if Gallo can be the man on offense.... We should at least be watchable until the trade deadline.

Oush said:

People need to calm down about this win...it was ONE win guys. We are still a terrible team and theres no way around it.

Yes, there are moments where we don't look like complete crap. (last night) but thats no reason to be so overjoyed...do you not remember all the other games where we looked like a D-league team.

As to Hughes and Big Gay Al, there trade value is not going to soar after one good game, they need to repeat this night in and night out for at least a few weeks before anyone takes either of them seriously enough to trade for even with those expiring contracts.

Also...seriously? you want duduhon to play 30 minutes a game? ... im just going to have to assume you've only watched 1 knicks game all year.

Click to expand...

I'm going to assume you've only watched 18 games this year; or you're really N8 and (once again) finding time to waste surfing this board instead of preparing for tonight's game.

mafra said:

I'm going to assume you've only watched 18 games this year; or you're really N8 and (once again) finding time to waste surfing this board instead of preparing for tonight's game.

Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from...but...dude...Duhon is not our future. Hughes is not our future. Nate won't be back next season. Most others will be dealt.

What I'm saying is that this season means nothing. Its literally 82 games of killing time and playing out these contracts to a new beginning in 2010.

You think next year Duhon and Hughes "turning a corner" will have any significance? Of course not.

All I'm saying is there is nothing to analyze here. Most of this team will be destroyed, thankfully soon, and it will be year zero next year

I don't mean to rag on your thread, because you care enough to be doing all this thinking. But it really isn't necessary. It's a waste of energy in fact.

All diehard fans are thirsting for wins and looking for the slightest thing to cheer about. This is just another case of that. Patience grasshopper. Our day is coming...just not this season

One game that Phoenix gave away and the Knicks have turned a corner? I don't think so. It's much too early to take this position. This team is entirely too inconsistent and when their backs are against the wall they will settle for jacking up threes again.

Harrington as sixth man is a favor from Walsh. I know it sounds crazy but I'm really starting to believe this. The man is putting up all-star numbers over the last few games and still isn't starting?! Isn't Harrington on verge to get sixth man of the year?

Gallinari gets a pass because he's a rookie. (I don't count last season) So far he's shown he can shoot and he has good footwork but he's yet to show he can lead a team or even be consistent. To me Galinari is a Kyle Korver type. Don't expect too much.

Chris Duhon. What can I say about Chris. He's a back up point guard on starting on a bad team. There's no good team in the NBA that would start Duhon. It's not completely his fault. The team is bad, can't blame it all on Duhon. We would all love Duhon coming off of the bench with lower expectations and lower pressure.

Lets face it, this is a throw away season. Nothing we can do about it but sit back and watch the train wreck.

Yeah, it's a throw away season.

But we still should hope to not give the Utah Jazz a lottery pick.

We should probably also hope to develop our rookies a bit more...Jordan Hill needs to play more, he's not all that bad. Yeah, he's raw and inconsistent, but he's a freaking rookie.

I mean, for example, even in limited playing time (Hill is averaging 07:47 a game) he's putting up 4 points and 2 rebounds per 7:47, which isn't all that awful considering he's a rookie and all. What if we played him for 18 minutes every game? He might average 11 or 12 points per game...which is more than we're getting from Chris Duhon, for example. Plus the kid plays defense...

Duhon only leads Curry, Hill, Darko and Jeffries in ppg

mafra said:

Not sure what I was impressed with most last night... The 39-point 1st quarter, the hard, aggressive effort the team displayed coming out firing after the half, the 100 points in 3-quarters, or (lost in all of the fun last night) the fact that the Knicks held the NBA's best offense to it's first sub-100 point game this season.

The team had 50 rebounds (19 on the offensive glass), 31 assists, 12 steals (to only 10 turnovers), 7 blocks, and they almost took 30 free throws!

We saw it against the Nets, against BOS and DEN... This team can play well when they want (if that means they need their offense going, or they simply need to bring it every night- who knows).

Here's my keys to the next 30 games (B/C once we pass the trade deadline, it's going to be all about the kids- getting Hill, Douglas, Landry 15 minutes a night; while centering the offense around Gallo, and seeing growth in Chandler):

===================

Our GUARD situation:

Duhon (PG)
Hughes (SG)

These 2 guys are the starters and should play about 30 minutes each night!

I know folks are killing Duhon- and I am one culprit- but we need to realize that <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1lace w:st="on">Douglas</st1lace> cans core and play defense, but he can't run the offense right now. Duhon is the only PG who can run the pick and roll.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o></o>
Duhon was fantastic the first 40-50 games last year. he's been awful the first 15 games, but he seems like he's startng to snap out of his funk.<o></o>
<o></o>
Duhon and Hughes are and should be our starting backcourt. Simple as that.... N8 is too one-dimensional. N8's role is to get some minutes, see if he's hot and go from there. If we need a jolt in the 4th quarter, we bring out the gimp and let N8 go to work (which will depend on matchup issues mostly).<o></o>
<o></o>
<st1lace w:st="on">Douglas</st1lace> is a rookie. He's a work in progress. He can score, slash, shoot and play defense, but he's not really ready to handle PG duties. Bottom line is this: on nights where Duhon and Hughes are playing well, and N8 is giving quality something.... well, there just aren't enough minutes for <st1lace w:st="on">Douglas</st1lace>. He needs to stay ready and prepared, and show the he can improve his weaknesses when he gets his chance.

Our FORWARD situation:

Wilson Chandler
Danillo Gallinari

We know, we've been told it, and it's obvious that these 2 kids are a BIG part of our future (even if that means we have to trade WC for a player). I think we saw last night, that good things will happen if we run the offense through Gallo. This is where Hughes is so valuable b/c he realizes that. Gallo's performance owes credit to Larry. I want to see more of it.

Gallo should see over 30 minutes a night (and close to 20 shots). Chandler's minutes will depend on his play. HIs effort on the glass, on defense, and his energy on offense (slashing, cutting, getting to the foul line) will dictate if his mind is in the game.... if not.... Harrington and N8 stand to see more time.

AL HARRINGTON is our 6th man, scoring machine off the bench. If he's hot you stick with him until he's cool. He's also a go-to option in the 4th, and should supplant Gallo-Chandler-Lee-Duhon-Hughes down the stretch if one is playing poorly that night. Like Chandler, enforce and impose the rule that we want variety on offense, not just long range bombing.

Our CENTER situation:

David Lee

He starts at center, and must live with playing out of position. If we get Gallo shooting the rock, then Duhon and Lee go to work on the pick and roll. If he's not rebounding, or is disappearing on offense, then we can sub him out and bring in a scoring option in Harrington or N8, or a defensive workhorse like Jeffries.

I'm not sure why Darko is getting nothing, and is in the dog house or something. I would advocate giving him minutes, but now it's sort of too late. I thought the idea was to giv ehim every opportunity to prove that we found a steal.... a gem, and that we could move fwd this year with a legit, young bog man who could excel in D'ant's system. BUT, here we are 18 games into the season and he's longing for a return to Europe.

BUT, if/when Curry returns.... Well he should should get his minutes 10-15 for a while,a dn then slowly work his way up to around 24 or so. If he plays well, he garners more and might even work his way into the starting lineup.

This leaves Hill in no-man's land though (along with Landry). The 3 kids are going to have to sit and bide their time for now. They should not be in the rotation. They get garbage time that's it. If the vets don;t bring it on a given night, and are playing poorly as a collective unit- then yank them and let the kids go to work.

==================

Basically, the next 30 games should be about the starting 5 (Duhon, Hughes, Gallo, Chandler, Lee), with Harrington as the 6th man, and N8 as that burst of energy off the bench; with Jeffries doing the grunt, dirty work, and with the hope that Curry can work his way back into the fold. That's your 9-man rotation.

We'll evaluate where we are after the trade deadline.... BUT, if we are still 10 games under .500 then I start this 5:

Douglas
Chandler
Gallo
Lee
Darko

Harrington is still my 6th man; Landry and Hill are big parts of the rotation, and then scraps are thrown to whichever vet is hungriest.

Curry wont be tradeable this season, so if he's healthy then I would start him with Darko or Lee. We could still hope to trade Curry before the draft....

I think there's a legit shot we could trade Lee, Jeffries, Hughes & Duhon before the deadline. This is why you have to continue to play them for now. I also think we could snag a young PG, or a draft selection along with dumping JJ's salary.

N8 might be the lost cause. Doubt we can deal him, and I bench him after the deadline.

I hope to bring back Harrington, so he can be our 6th man for the next 2-3 years.

Click to expand...

Duhon needs to sit, he gets the most minutes of any Knick so far this year and leads only the last five players on the roster. You don't play a guy this long, with poor defense, turnovers, (Hughes can run the pick and roll and is number 5 in the league in steals, plus the best defender) and Duhon only get a little over 6 points per game? Talk about coach being loyal, Duhon should be embarrassed to be out there on the court while Robinson and Douglas sit.
Only the rookies and Darko are lower in ppg and you give this guy the most time on the court?
Sure, keep trying to work him back to last years peak, but not the most minutes of the entire squad, get Robinson, Douglas in there with Hughes, have Duhon come off the bench like Harrington does (the leading scorer). Duhon doesn't pass to Hughes, he's afraid of losing his job, Hughes is a way better point guard (took Cleveland to the finals playing out of position as a point guard and I bet Hughes will be in D.C. next year, so he ought to play for the team. Hughes doesn't like to play the point anyway, but for this team, and in his 12th year with 10,000 pts, he would do anything to win some games.
Forget about Hill, for 6' 10'' and that high of a draft pick you should contribute your first year, he does little extra work at practices to even try to improve and jokes around way too much for a rookie. Doubt he will beat the average 4 year NBA career length. Even the last two game in most the fourth quarter he looks very raw.

donchris said:

. To me Galinari is a Kyle Korver type. Don't expect too much.

Click to expand...

A Kyle Korver type? Are you serious? This kid is a big time prospect as we speak and minimum we could compare him to Torkoglu/Kukoc. This kid can play basketball and with a very high IQ and floor spacing knowledge for his age. He rebounds, passes, shoots really well and if you put him with a Lebron I don't know how good Gallo can be. If you don't think this kid has game you don't understand or know the game of basketball.

Before we made the 2008 draft selection I watched a lot of you tube videos of him and back then I thought that he was worthy of a top 5 pick. I saw in those videos a little bit of Reggie Miller up and under to get a shots off too. Will he be a superstar? Not at all, but we needed smart, team players, and a little bit of European flavor to our team and Walsh did a great job in that draft. I love Gallo's game and can't wait for Hill to develop because with time and better players around him I think he's special in a Horace Grant/Dale Davis role. A Superstar? Not at all, but a 6'11 that can shoot, rebound, hustles, blocks is very good thing to have in our team.

Now back to topic, I agree with most that it is too soon to say we turned the corner. We are 4-15, until we get to .500 we haven't turned shit around. And I don't think that is happening, my prediction before the season was 27 wins and I think we'll be around that mark.

2 Things

2 things:

1. A win over Phoenix isn't turning a corner as evidenced by tonight's loss to Orlando.. You've created your own propaganda really. Believe it and you'll be a very disappointed person.

10 points for optimism though.

2.

A Kyle Korver type? Are you serious? This kid is a big time prospect as we speak and minimum we could compare him to Torkoglu/Kukoc.

Click to expand...

Why must we incessantly compare Euro ballers to Euro ballers? Or White guys to Larry Bird. It's just ridiculous. That means if Yoda played, he'd be the next Cassell does it?

And Kyle Korver? ****ing hell. Obviously 10x the versatility of Korver displayed even at this stage by Gallo. Rude.

This is a good post:

I understand where you are coming from...but...dude...Duhon is not our future. Hughes is not our future. Nate won't be back next season. Most others will be dealt.

What I'm saying is that this season means nothing. Its literally 82 games of killing time and playing out these contracts to a new beginning in 2010.

You think next year Duhon and Hughes "turning a corner" will have any significance? Of course not.

All I'm saying is there is nothing to analyze here. Most of this team will be destroyed, thankfully soon, and it will be year zero next year

I don't mean to rag on your thread, because you care enough to be doing all this thinking. But it really isn't necessary. It's a waste of energy in fact.

All diehard fans are thirsting for wins and looking for the slightest thing to cheer about. This is just another case of that. Patience grasshopper. Our day is coming...just not this season

Click to expand...

Realism. Love it

Crazy8s said:

Why must we incessantly compare Euro ballers to Euro ballers? Or White guys to Larry Bird. It's just ridiculous. That means if Yoda played, he'd be the next Cassell does it?

Click to expand...

If you read my post I also compared Gallo to Reggie Miller a little big on his up and under moves on his mid-range game. In every draft comparison Gallo was compare to Torkoglu, that is how he plays. He is European, he passes, dribbles, shoots like it. What are you 12, what an idiotic post.

I'm sorry? I didn't realize Europeans dribbled and passed like Europeans. That's a pretty broad generalization isn't it? Unless you can back that up we'll see who's idiotic.

Gallinari reminds me more of Rashard Lewis if anyone. Just a better passer.

And I've no doubt Europeans have a firmer grip on grammar than you do as well. Your writing style reflects that of say........ A 12 year old?

Douche.