Official Let Lee Go Thread.

Red

TYPE-A
David Lee is the quintessential complimentary player.

He hustles. He rebounds. He even finds open guys for assists.
Lee also added or moreso polished his fundamental game. His abixdextarity is always on display.

In my opinion... Lee is JUST learning to do what most HIGH SCHOOL stars already can. Lay ups, good positioning, passing etc...
When players aren't deemed "prospects"- they [already] developed these fundamental skills.
Real good players use their fundamentals and athleticism as a foundation to build on. Rather than teach them fundamentals, they add to their repertoire.

A jumper, an outside shot usually further from the basket than they normally possesed. A post game or perhaps getting to the hole and drawing fouls. These are examples of ADDED weopons for ones disposal. And I'd say at least Lee has improved on some (lay up, jumper).

That said please realize this:
We've seen team after team abuse us in the paint. We've seen player after player- some really not stars at all- some up and comers abuse us and have no fear entering the paint. This deficiency really nulifies our coaches SSOL philosophy and underscores the importance of defense.

Now I bet you think I am beefing about D Lee's lack of defense. Or maybe D'Antoni's lack of defensive coaching.
I'm reserved to the fact that Lebron-Wade or any wing player (although needed) will not help this GLARING weakness.
Maybe Bosh and in that case why would we pay for Lee?
Lee is the perfect compliment player. He seems selfless, he has decent size and is relatively young. But like I said about N8, him being a homegrown makes it hard to see the forest through the trees.

Lee has peeked as a player. He can never get faster, stronger, better. He will never be able to defend any better. Bogot abused him. Any player with size and a good coach who knows about exploiting the paint- abuses hi
 

Red

TYPE-A
Cont'd

abuses him. I've concluded that in a round about way, Lee is partly responsible. His contract demands won't allow us to sign anyone who can help in the paint.

Even with a Max player or 2 we will need what I can only describe as "specialists" to fill out the roster.

Lee is a rebounding "specialist" he would be perfect. But not for 10 - 12 mil. That's money is reserved for those who can bring more than fundamentals to the table.

Let's forget his homegrown resume, his double x2's, and his complextion (I know this is why some root so much) and let's look into the future.
Unless Lee by miracle can transform to a cornerstone- after we acquire 2 stars (hopefully) or even 1 and a quasi star- why would we pay Lee to rebound? Why would we...
Again not knocking him, Lee will never defend any better, get quicker, nor approach the fundamentl abilities of natural bigs who can defend.
I can't see signing anyone and not addressing our issue of no interior defense. That's why I know we are wasting time with Lee. I'd bet my left nut we could have won 19 games without Lee. I'd bet we'ed be better with a "defensive big specialist" than double dub. "rebounding specialist" Lee.
Lee's price tag, lack of essential big man skills, and our need to boost interior intimidation have led to believe Lee indirectly is part of the problem and not the solution. No hate, like with N8- Lee just isn't what we need for success.
If Bosh doesn't sign here... that's Bosh, Howard, Bogot, Garnot, Horford on and on and on... of big men that will make their living abusing the Lee's of the world in the paint. Teams w/ real defensive presence, will make our Max's irrelivent, and so does having a limited over priced big in Lee. I say cut our losses and renounce his rights/ sign and trade (if possible) and move on.
 
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TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Lee is a top 5 PF in the league. He is playing out of position and is not a great defender. The rest of his game is all star level. High FG%, elite rebounder, ambidextrous finisher, hard worker, high basketball IQ and way above average passer. What we need is an "Official Sign a Center" thread to pair alongside Lee.

Bosh has grown on me and if we can afford to pair him up with a Lebron caliber player than we should go for it. If we are not going to get Bosh than Lee is our best alternative at PF. We can pair him up with Deandre Jordan, Anthony Randolph or some other cheap young center who can play D.

P.S. Lee > Amare
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
abuses him. I've concluded that in a round about way, Lee is partly responsible. His contract demands won't allow us to sign anyone who can help in the paint.

Even with a Max player or 2 we will need what I can only describe as "specialists" to fill out the roster.

Lee is a rebounding "specialist" he would be perfect. But not for 10 - 12 mil. That's money is reserved for those who can bring more than fundamentals to the table.

Let's forget his homegrown resume, his double x2's, and his complextion (I know this is why some root so much) and let's look into the future.
Unless Lee by miracle can transform to a cornerstone- after we acquire 2 stars (hopefully) or even 1 and a quasi star- why would we pay Lee to rebound? Why would we...

1. that is mad ignorant. (I am confident only a very small minority want Lee because he is white. Further I have not seen evidence that anyone on this site falls into that category)
2. You spelled it wrong
 

Red

TYPE-A
Trill:
I read many sites and can read between the lines. It's not bad that some support Lee b/c he is white- I see no problems with that. And that's a diff. debate.

My real point is...
Lee is too expensive for what he brings to the table. Lee is a "top 5 PF" who has no impact where its needed. Lebron might avg. 5+ (guessing) assist per. but teams aren't signing him for that- its for the more important things he brings. The other stats are ancillary.

A "top 5 PF" should be able to make a difference on a team- Lee doesn't. Out of position is a byproduct of D'Ant which furthers my point.
If in this system players are forced "out of natural position" then said players will have to be MORE than what's fundamentally needed i.e long range jumper for big men.
Lee doesn't have those "extra" abilities and its exclaimated in D'ants system.
This isn't what we need. Like Duhon- he can play and in the right system he can be successful, just not ours. Our system, while accentuating his layup/rebound game- exploits his lack of D, low post moves etc...
That's the paradox- if you support the system (D'Ant) you have to admit Lee isn't a good fit. At his price, with his limitations, he isn't a sound financial investment. IMO he is the last to be offered a contract AFTER (if) we miss on a real quality big. I'd go as far as to say 1 Max and a budding big defender is ok with me. Anything than over-rated turnstile, matador non-sense!Sorry about the spelling.
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
and his complexion (fixed it for you) (I know this is why some root so much)

Is that right?

Please enlighten us with your extra sensory perception. Are you referring to people on this site?

I consider that comment on par with Chris Duhon's extra sensory passing.
 

dave2138

Rotation player
Trill:
I read many sites and can read between the lines. It's not bad that some support Lee b/c he is white- I see no problems with that. And that's a diff. debate.

My real point is...
Lee is too expensive for what he brings to the table. Lee is a "top 5 PF" who has no impact where its needed. Lebron might avg. 5+ (guessing) assist per. but teams aren't signing him for that- its for the more important things he brings. The other stats are ancullary.

A "top 5 PF" should be able to make a difference on a team- Lee doesn't. Out of position is a byproduct of D'Ant which furthers my point.
If in this system players are forced "out of natural position" then said players will have to be MORE than what's fundamentally needed i.e long range jumper for big men.
Lee doesn't have those "extra" abilities and its exclaimated in D'ants system.
This isn't what we need. Like Duhon- he can play and in the right system he can be successful, just not ours. Our system, while accentuating his layup/rebound game- exploits his lack of D, low post moves etc...
That's the paradox- if you support the system (D'Ant) you have to admit Lee isn't a good fit. At his price, with his limitations, he isn't a sound financial investment. IMO he is the last to be offered a contract AFTER (if) we miss on a real quality big. I'd go as far as to say 1 Max and a budding big defender is ok with me. Anything than over-rated turnstile, matador non-sense!Sorry about the spelling.


Everything you say about how Lee is not the right fit for this team I can agree with to an extent (except for the white part)...but I want to ask you, why do you think Lee was not traded earlier this season or at the trade deadline for anything a team was willing to offer...late 1st round pick, future protected 1st round pick, young cheap player + another expiring contract.

Doesn't it worry you that the reason the Knicks didn't want to trade Lee this year is because they want to keep him past this year? That combined with Walsh saying the Jeffries - Hill trade was "good for Lee", really makes me think Lee resigning is probably going to be the 1st thing Walsh does this season whether we like it or not.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Trill:
I read many sites and can read between the lines. It's not bad that some support Lee b/c he is white- I see no problems with that. And that's a diff. debate.

My real point is...
Lee is too expensive for what he brings to the table. Lee is a "top 5 PF" who has no impact where its needed. Lebron might avg. 5+ (guessing) assist per. but teams aren't signing him for that- its for the more important things he brings. The other stats are ancillary.

A "top 5 PF" should be able to make a difference on a team- Lee doesn't. Out of position is a byproduct of D'Ant which furthers my point.
If in this system players are forced "out of natural position" then said players will have to be MORE than what's fundamentally needed i.e long range jumper for big men.
Lee doesn't have those "extra" abilities and its exclaimated in D'ants system.
This isn't what we need. Like Duhon- he can play and in the right system he can be successful, just not ours. Our system, while accentuating his layup/rebound game- exploits his lack of D, low post moves etc...
That's the paradox- if you support the system (D'Ant) you have to admit Lee isn't a good fit. At his price, with his limitations, he isn't a sound financial investment. IMO he is the last to be offered a contract AFTER (if) we miss on a real quality big. I'd go as far as to say 1 Max and a budding big defender is ok with me. Anything than over-rated turnstile, matador non-sense!Sorry about the spelling.

Lee would have impact at PF with a defensive center in the paint. Lee provides plenty of scoring, rebounding and passing. He helps spread the floor, sets picks and much of the offense is run through him. The only thing he lacks is defense but that doesn't negate his impact in other areas.

Lee playing out of position is not because of Dant or his system...it's because we do not have a viable alternative at center. That is a product of our management and mostly due to two factors:

1. we have been clearing cap space for 2010
2. decent centers are a rare commodity in the NBA

P.S. I know this thread was started because Bogut abused Lee last night but Bogut abuses many defenders and is becoming an elite center in the league.
 

Red

TYPE-A
Are you telling me to some; Lee isn't the great white hope? I disagree from what I've read. But that's my opinion- this isn't a race debate.
Although I would add- do you think some Asians root for Yao to succeed b/c he's Chinese? Of course- and to me, again there's nothing wrong with that.

But since you're so adamant let's debate.
First, Lee playing as a center means what....
If Lebron were here can't we assume Lee will still be at center so....
Also consider if does change back to PF- most big scorers in the league are PF's not centers (the centers become scorers when Lee is in there trying to defend them). That said please enlighten me on what specifically Lee does that we NEED to pay 10-12 mil for, sacrafice our chances for, and neglect our deficiency?
All I keep reading is how we will still need to sign a big to help him. Is that what they say about Bosh or Amare? Look at Lewis in Orlando. Howard helps him out right? OK so even with his offensive abilities, he needed a big... that to me means:
Even with his limited skills he needs a real big alongside. Thus why would I pay him so much I can't afford a big to play alongside? That's my logic. He's not garbage, just too expensive amd limited for us to afford during rebuilding.
 

dave2138

Rotation player
you know whats going to be depressing...when Utah picks a center like Cole Aldrich with our pick. Its going to be depressing regardless of who they pick, but the fact we could have got a true center with above average defense that we needed for the past 10+ years will hurt.

Only thing worse than that is if Utah wins the lottery and gets Wall or Turner..
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Are you telling me to some; Lee isn't the great white hope? I disagree from what I've read. But that's my opinion- this isn't a race debat.
Although I would add- do you think some Asians root for Yao to succeed b/c he's Chinese? Of course- and to me, again there's nothing wrong with that.

But since you're so adamant let's debate.
First, Lee playing as a center means what....
If Lebron were here can't we assume Lee will still be at center so....
Also consider if does change back to PF- most big scorers in the league are PF's not centers (the centers become scorers when Lee is in there trying to defend them). That said please enlighten me on what specifically Lee does that we NEED to pay 10-12 mil for, sacrafice our chances for, and neglect our deficiency?
All I keep reading is how we will still need to sign a big to help him. Is that what they say about Bosh or Amare? Look at Lewis in Orlando. Howard helps him out right? OK so even with his offensive abilities, he needed a big... that to me means:
Even with his limited skills he needs a real big alongside. Thus why would I pay him so much I can't afford a big to play alongside? That's my logic. He's not garbage, just too expensive amd limited for us to afford during rebuilding.

1. You brought race into your own thread
2. sure some root for him because he is white as some probably root for him because their favorite number is 42.
3. we do not know what players we will acquire with our cap space so to assume Lee will automatically be our center next year is pure speculation
4. I agree Lee should not be paid more than 10 mil a year at the very most
5. If we can get Bosh we should do it but Lee is def a viable option for the right price at PF.
 

Red

TYPE-A
How does a "Top 5" All-Star PF lead his team to 250 loses!? How is he not anywhere near tops in defensive categories (except rebounds)?
Any team would love to have a "Top 5" PF on their squad yet...

Only 1 team offered him a contract as a FA?
He was selected as a back-up reserve? Why he should of started.
Can't impact more than 19 wins?
Still needs a big to help (not a shooter, not a guard) ANOTHER BIG!!!!?Lee REALLY ISNT A TOP 5 PF- he's just masquerading as one in D'ants system!

Lee is ONLY A top 5 REBOUNDER- that's it. An expensive ancillary player, meant for established teams. Not rebuilders.
 

dave2138

Rotation player
did you just compare David Lee to Yao Ming in terms of fans rooting for them because of their color/nationality? Yao Ming is the only good player to come out of Asia...you make it seem like no other White American has made it to the NBA.

Rooting for Lee because he is white is like rooting for Cliff Floyd when he was a Met because he is black.

Anyway, debate Lee's skills or not...I think if you just look at the evidence of how Walsh has treated him you'll see he'll probably be the 1st player resigned once the off season starts.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Only 1 team offered him a contract as a FA?

He is getting better and this was his best year. Further he was a restricted FA during a massive recession where teams were cutting costs due to a loss in revenue and clearing space for the summer of Bron.

He was selected as a back-up reserve? Why he should of started.

He is not a fan favorite land can't yet win a popularity contest in the NBA. The fact that he was selected is evidence enough of his skills.

Can't impact more than 19 wins?

The season is not over yet so we may get more wins than that. In addition, one player can't compensate for a terrible supporting cast unless your initials are KB, DW, LJ or MJ. Lee is not a number one option either, he is a great number 2 option though. He will complement a superstar like Lebron perfectly. He does not need set plays to earn his points nor does he need to dominate the ball.

Still needs a big to help (not a shooter, not a guard) ANOTHER BIG!!!!?Lee

Correct, PF's normally need a center...

REALLY ISNT A TOP 5 PF- he's just masqyerading as one in D'ants system!

What system? SSOL was not implemented this year and we slowed our offense down to match our players. SSOL is the system everyone talks about when mentioning inflated stats. Further the system has nothing to do with a high FG% or elite rebounding skills.

Lee is ONLY A top 5 REBOUNDER- that's it. An expensive ancillary player, meant for established teams. Not rebuilders.

We are not doing traditional rebuilding. We will be instant contenders if Walsh is successful with his plan. Lee is a perfect PF on a championship team that has strong players at other positions.
 

X-FACTOR

Rookie
He is getting better and this was his best year. Further he was a restricted FA during a massive recession where teams were cutting costs due to a loss in revenue and clearing space for the summer of Bron.



He is not a fan favorite land can't yet win a popularity contest in the NBA. The fact that he was selected is evidence enough of his skills.



The season is not over yet so we may get more wins than that. In addition, one player can't compensate for a terrible supporting cast unless your initials are KB, DW, LJ or MJ. Lee is not a number one option either, he is a great number 2 option though. He will complement a superstar like Lebron perfectly. He does not need set plays to earn his points nor does he need to dominate the ball.



Correct, PF's normally need a center...



What system? SSOL was not implemented this year and we slowed our offense down to match our players. SSOL is the system everyone talks about when mentioning inflated stats. Further the system has nothing to do with a high FG% or elite rebounding skills.



We are not doing traditional rebuilding. We will be instant contenders if Walsh is successful with his plan. Lee is a perfect PF on a championship team that has strong players at other positions.


AMEN.i deleted my own post coz u said it better.
 

bayejorl

Benchwarmer
Are you telling me to some; Lee isn't the great white hope? I disagree from what I've read. But that's my opinion- this isn't a race debate.
Although I would add- do you think some Asians root for Yao to succeed b/c he's Chinese? Of course- and to me, again there's nothing wrong with that.

I wouldn't compare at all both things. Nationallity has nothing to do with race. People from other countries root for they country mates and that's logic, as you don't see players from your country in the NBA in a regular way. But rooting for a guy because he's white is pretty shitty IMHO. I don't know if people root for Lee because he's white, but that's not OK. That's racism.

I am not at all a nationalist/ultra patriotic guy, I laugh at that shit but I understand cheering a guy because their nationality, specially when he's playing in other country wich happens to have the best league in the sport. But I don't understand at all cheering a guy because of his race.

Lee is a PF playing at C. And he's damn good and improving. IMHO he has enough skills to have fans by his play, his deffense sucks and it's very debatable if he fits here next year or not. But I think that race issue is bullshit.
 

RaptorRulz

Benchwarmer
Bosh ain't coming to NY, Lee is a very good PF, bad C, who's playing on a really bad team, get a good C, (not a superstar), just a good C, an an actual PG, and you guys easily have 8-10 more wins right now , with Lee than without. My opinion for the price you can't afford to lose Lee, especially if Donnie manages to bring in 1 maybe 2 max money players.
 

Red

TYPE-A
...one player can't compensate for a terrible supporting cast unless your initials are KB, DW, LJ or MJ. Lee is not a number one option either, he is a great number 2 option though. He will complement a superstar like Lebron perfectly.
Compensate for a terrible supporting cast is ambiguous. No one is asking him to do anything that a player as hyped and paid as him doesnt.
Everything you list is is good for certain teams (that can compensate for his lack of defense)- that isn't us!

A great number two option? No he isn't! That's why he wasn't signed long term- that's why we keep talking about Lebron + One more. Not Lebron plus Lee.
Walsh Knows all to well, Lee isn't a priority at this point. If we were contenders, maybe. If we were established in the paint, maybe. But to rebuild w/ Max's on the herizon- Lee is an afterthought.
In fact I would bet the odds of Lee going (and being valued) by a contender is higher than him resigning.
A Top F PF not directly responsible for any of 19 wins- all-star that gets abused regularly. One who needs help!
Too expensive and too limitedwhen considering the fish we're trying to fry. No Thanks. I'm not gassed.
2 max's + your boy Lee...smh that's the proverbial "cake and eating it too- then shitting, using it as fertilizer and growing roses"! That and the expectations to make the playoffs after what we've witnessed is... crazy. I'm betting against it.
 
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TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Compensate for a terrible supporting cast is ambiguous. No one is asking him to do anything that a player as hyped and paid as him does.
Everything you list is is good for certain teams (that can compensate for his lack of defense)- that isn't us!

A great number two option? No he isn't! That's why he wasn't signed long term- that's why we keep talking about Lebron + One more. Not Lebron plus Lee.
Walsh Knows all to well, Lee isn't a priority at this point. If we were contenders, maybe. If we were established in the paint, maybe. But to rebuild w/ Max's on the herizon- Lee is an afterthought.
In fact I would bet the odds of Lee going (and being valued) by a contender is higher than him resigning.
A Top 5 PF not directly responsible for any of 19 wins- all-star that gets abused regularly. One who needs help!
Too expensive and too limitedwhen considering the fish we're trying to fry. No Thanks. I'm not gassed.
2 max's + your boy Lee, plus a servicable (admittedly hard to find) center & supporting cast- in one year...smh! That's the proverbial "cake and eating it too- then shitting, using it as fertilizer and growing roses"! That and the expectations to make the playoffs after what we've witnessed is... crazy. I'm betting against it.

We are not making the playoffs this year nor did I claim we were in this thread or any thread recently. I further never claimed we can get two max plus sign Lee. We can get Lebron, Lee and another non-max stud. Again, if we can upgrade and get a big like Bosh than we should go for it but if we can't Lee will be more than adequate in his natural position at PF.

P.S. Did you really just state that Lee was not responsible for any of our wins? That is pretty absurd IMO.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Bosh ain't coming to NY, Lee is a very good PF, bad C, who's playing on a really bad team, get a good C, (not a superstar), just a good C, an an actual PG, and you guys easily have 8-10 more wins right now , with Lee than without. My opinion for the price you can't afford to lose Lee, especially if Donnie manages to bring in 1 maybe 2 max money players.

You still here? I really hope for your sake that you are an alt account for one of our regulars just posting to flame...either way you are just sad. I know it makes you upset that Toronto can't hold on to any of their stars but coming here to bitch is pathetic. Face facts, Toronto will always cultivate talent only to see them leave to a bigger and better market. Bosh will be gone and so will Derozen in a few years.

Toronto = NBA D league team
 
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