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View Full Version : Plan B - The Isaiah Thomas route!



Knickerbocker glory
Jun 25, 2010, 17:53
So Plan A is out the window with Lebron heading to Chicago. Plan B will be to win now with Mike D'Antoni's job on the line. Forget 2011, D'Antoni needs to put a winner on the floor this year to save his job! I fear we could revisit the Isaiah Thomas route again by taking on average players with bad, long term contracts in order to be a half decent team instead of a lousy team! In the process we won't get to draft franchise players at the top of the draft because we won't be that bad, but we will never be a serious player for a championship!

SSj4Wingzero
Jun 25, 2010, 20:06
That's not really the Isiah Thomas plan. The Isiah Thomas plan was taking on the league's worst contracts in exchange for draft picks to field as terrible a team as possible

Paul1355
Jun 25, 2010, 20:33
That's not really the Isiah Thomas plan. The Isiah Thomas plan was taking on the league's worst contracts in exchange for draft picks to field as terrible a team as possible
We can always pay Jerome James 8 million a year to fill our center need.

metrocard
Jun 25, 2010, 21:20
I want to cry. I can't someone made this thread.

knicksvision
Jun 25, 2010, 22:03
If the Knicks don't get any spectacular free agent this year, next year's class is also stacked with Melo, Yao Ming, David West, and Caron Butler.

Paul1355
Jun 25, 2010, 22:04
If the Knicks don't get any spectacular free agent this year, next year's class is also stacked with Melo, Yao Ming, David West, and Caron Butler.
Those players in 2011 have a better chance of being free agents than Lebron D Wade and everyone else this year.

NYKnuniversity
Jun 25, 2010, 22:55
Those players in 2011 have a better chance of being free agents than Lebron D Wade and everyone else this year.
No they don't? LeBron and Wade already made it clear that they were for sure opting out...

Not to mention most of those players will probably re-up before becoming free agents because of the approaching CBA agreement that will most likely lower the long term salaries of players.

So no...they aren't more likely to be free agents actually.

dave2138
Jun 25, 2010, 23:18
agreed, next year's FA class will be terrible. West and Butler are the 2 biggest names...this year is our biggest opportunity. I wouldn't worry, I think WORST case if we miss out on James, Wade, Bosh, Stoudemire and then overpay for Johnson, Gay, Boozer, Lee, Scola type FA...

Rebuilding with young, cheap players or getting 1 year stop gaps is not an option. This will be our version of the 2007 Boston Celtics off season except instead of finding trades, the Knicks will be trying to get free agents at any cost. At least thats how I see it.

If you guys learned anything about "the plan" from watching what they did in the draft and the trades from the past 2 years, it was that every cent is going to be used this off season to get our team up to the salary cap, getting the best players available through FA. I don't think anyone can argue against that at this point.

Waiting for next year's class of FA is not realistic.

lilman_bklyn
Jun 25, 2010, 23:54
agreed, next year's FA class will be terrible. West and Butler are the 2 biggest names...this year is our biggest opportunity. I wouldn't worry, I think WORST case if we miss out on James, Wade, Bosh, Stoudemire and then overpay for Johnson, Gay, Boozer, Lee, Scola type FA...

Rebuilding with young, cheap players or getting 1 year stop gaps is not an option. This will be our version of the 2007 Boston Celtics off season except instead of finding trades, the Knicks will be trying to get free agents at any cost. At least thats how I see it.

If you guys learned anything about "the plan" from watching what they did in the draft and the trades from the past 2 years, it was that every cent is going to be used this off season to get our team up to the salary cap, getting the best players available through FA. I don't think anyone can argue against that at this point.

Waiting for next year's class of FA is not realistic.

And mentalities like this is why the Knicks are the Knicks... So your plan is, since we already traded away these awful contracts to free up cap space, why not just pick up some more awful contracts... what are you nuts?? Melo, Durant, and Yao are the the top FA's next year... There is enough talent coming out next year that if the Knicks don't sign any TOP TIER FA's this year they can spend money on stop gaps along with some decent proven role players and then make a run for some of the TOP FAs next year... Spending cap money just because you have it is ridiculous, especially if its not gonna guarantee any more than a few more victories

dave2138
Jun 26, 2010, 00:10
Good luck thinking Carmelo and Durant will be FA next year...

I'm not necessarily saying I want them to overpay for the 2nd tier FA Johnson, Boozer etc. I'm just saying I am pretty certain they will do that if the given max FA, Lebron/Bosh etc. don't come here.

Why else do you trade Hill, future 1st round picks, Randolph, Crawford, Jeffries for nothing except cap space? You do that to sign FA...if the big name FA don't come, then you overpay for the next group of FA. I could easily see this team with Joe Johnson/David Lee/Brendan Haywood. Or a sign/trade, Lee for Tony Parker + Boozer + Joe Johnson...something like that. Of course I always am confident they can get Lebron/Bosh. I think its pretty obvious something along the lines of those scenarios will come true.

What is not possible is them missing out on this year's crop of FA in order to have this made up chance at Durant/Melo.

dave2138
Jun 26, 2010, 00:12
Also Kevin Durant technically won't be an unrestricted FA until after the 2011/2012 season. Not that it matters...he'll be resigned way before then.

Kiyaman
Jun 26, 2010, 11:04
That's not really the Isiah Thomas plan. The Isiah Thomas plan was taking on the league's worst contracts in exchange for draft picks to field as terrible a team as possible

As much as I hated the idea of Isiah Thomas in New York, no one can refute or debate that Isiah had quadruble Laydens season ticket holders by trading for expensive name "savior" players each offseason, while selecting some of the top athletic NBA-Ready players out of the draft each offseason.
Isiah problem was he never investing in a bigger coaching-staff, and being able to hire a reliable headcoach/assitant-coach which is on the same page as him.

There was no-way Isiah Thomas would ever hire a long time enemy coach Larry Brown, or make him the highest paid coach in the NBA.
That was owner James Dolan doing.
Larry Brown constantly told the New York Press that every Isiah player on the Knicks were BUMS.....
Trevor Ariza was Isiah Thomas prize 2nd round draft pick, he boasted about.
Do u think Isiah would trade Trevor Ariza? for Steve Frances a player to take away playingtime from his favorite Star player Marbury?
com'on that was owner James Dolan doing to please Larry Brown.
Do u think the last 4 Knick headcoaches wanted Herb Williams as their top assistant coach?

Take one big guess of what is going to happen when Donnie Walsh dont get any max-players to sign in this big FA market???
owner James Dolan will become the shot-caller making Walsh a puppet.
He did it to Layden & Isiah, recall ex-Knick player Sprewell screaming several times at Dolan & Wife during a Knick vs Timberwolves game at MSG every time Spree scored he ran pass Dolan & Wife seating area yelling at Dolan untill they got up and left.

And for those who dont know NBA history, if all the Max FA refuse to sign with the Knicks in this 2010 offseason? then it is a guaranteed the 2011 max FA offseason will do the same.
NBA history has showed this on many occasions of teams with large cap-space for 2 to 5 seasons in a row (the Chicago Bulls) on max FA resigning rather than take a chance on a cap space bottom team.

johnstarky
Jun 26, 2010, 11:09
I never knew that Dolan cared about the Knicks.

Kiyaman
Jun 26, 2010, 12:48
Good luck thinking Carmelo and Durant will be FA next year...

I'm not necessarily saying I want them to overpay for the 2nd tier FA Johnson, Boozer etc. I'm just saying I am pretty certain they will do that if the given max FA, Lebron/Bosh etc. don't come here.

Why else do you trade Hill, future 1st round picks, Randolph, Crawford, Jeffries for nothing except cap space? You do that to sign FA...if the big name FA don't come, then you overpay for the next group of FA. I could easily see this team with Joe Johnson/David Lee/Brendan Haywood. Or a sign/trade, Lee for Tony Parker + Boozer + Joe Johnson...something like that. Of course I always am confident they can get Lebron/Bosh. I think its pretty obvious something along the lines of those scenarios will come true.

What is not possible is them missing out on this year's crop of FA in order to have this made up chance at Durant/Melo.

At one time I seen us grabbing a few 2nd tier top FA. untill draft night arrived to boost 5 of the teams in the Eastern Conference.

1) The Washington Wizards getting two sweet passing PG to pull one decent 2nd tier top FA (with Arenas coming back to be on his best behavior), making the Wizards a bigger sleeper than the Bucks were this season.
2) With the Wizards giving the Bulls room to sign 2 max FA or three 2nd tier top FA plus having Deng for a sign and trade FA.
3) Miami Heat adding cap space so D.Wade can recruit 2 FA to become a BIG-3 in the East.
4) Philly adding some powerful pieces on thier team (Turner will make Jrue Holiday dynamic) coach Collins will luck-up with the right piece using MLE.
5) The Nets are far from being a 12 win season team, the Nets are on their way to being complete with their low cap-space being able to sign two of the 2nd tier top FA this summer.

We refuse to put together 2 jellin starters and 2 jellin bench players on our roster that would entice 1 or 3 of the top-20 FA in this market to want to join our Knick team.
Our organization has been playing the blame-game and looking for scape-goats the past 2 seasons.

Knickerbocker glory
Jun 26, 2010, 13:22
If the Knicks don't get any spectacular free agent this year, next year's class is also stacked with Melo, Yao Ming, David West, and Caron Butler.

knicksvision, the Knicks have to put a winning product on the floor this season after tanking the past two seasons for a shot at Lebron. 29 wins in 2010-11 is not going to cut it, D'Antoni's is now on the hot seat after a two year grace period! My fear is the Knicks will only be able to sign 2nd tier free agents like Ray Allen and regret doling out these contracts in the future when they become albatrosses around our neck! In other words we would be back to where we were two years ago!

iSaYughh
Jun 26, 2010, 14:20
As much as I hated the idea of Isiah Thomas in New York, no one can refute or debate that Isiah had quadruble Laydens season ticket holders by trading for expensive name "savior" players each offseason, while selecting some of the top athletic NBA-Ready players out of the draft each offseason.
Isiah problem was he never investing in a bigger coaching-staff, and being able to hire a reliable headcoach/assitant-coach which is on the same page as him.

There was no-way Isiah Thomas would ever hire a long time enemy coach Larry Brown, or make him the highest paid coach in the NBA.
That was owner James Dolan doing.
Larry Brown constantly told the New York Press that every Isiah player on the Knicks were BUMS.....
Trevor Ariza was Isiah Thomas prize 2nd round draft pick, he boasted about.
Do u think Isiah would trade Trevor Ariza? for Steve Frances a player to take away playingtime from his favorite Star player Marbury?
com'on that was owner James Dolan doing to please Larry Brown.
Do u think the last 4 Knick headcoaches wanted Herb Williams as their top assistant coach?

Take one big guess of what is going to happen when Donnie Walsh dont get any max-players to sign in this big FA market???
owner James Dolan will become the shot-caller making Walsh a puppet.
He did it to Layden & Isiah, recall ex-Knick player Sprewell screaming several times at Dolan & Wife during a Knick vs Timberwolves game at MSG every time Spree scored he ran pass Dolan & Wife seating area yelling at Dolan untill they got up and left.

And for those who dont know NBA history, if all the Max FA refuse to sign with the Knicks in this 2010 offseason? then it is a guaranteed the 2011 max FA offseason will do the same.
NBA history has showed this on many occasions of teams with large cap-space for 2 to 5 seasons in a row (the Chicago Bulls) on max FA resigning rather than take a chance on a cap space bottom team.

Yes. Isiah may have become a monster, but this Frankenstein had a master who created and allowed him to become what he became. That evil man is Dolan.

Excellent history in above post with the causality for things.

The two most shameful franchises of the past decade+ who squandered the most resource and opportunity in the process have been Dolan's kick toys. Rangers and Knicks.

pat
Jun 26, 2010, 17:24
Lebron migth very well see Chicago as his best option available. However, winning is not only about adding individul numbers and Rose might not be the right guy. Both want to have the ball in their hands. Bosh wants to be "the man" as well. This could cause a lot of disappointment. Our greatest weakness could turn out to be our biggest advantage: A virtually empty roster which would allow the Knicks to surround Lebron and whomsoever with the best role players for a LBJ-scenario.

I can understand your frustration but have a look at what Donnie had to deal with over the last two years. Whether we actually sign a big time FA this year or not, getting rid of all of these horrible contracts is a hell of a job already.

Kiyaman
Jun 27, 2010, 03:34
Lebron migth very well see Chicago as his best option available. However, winning is not only about adding individul numbers and Rose might not be the right guy. Both want to have the ball in their hands. Bosh wants to be "the man" as well. This could cause a lot of disappointment. Our greatest weakness could turn out to be our biggest advantage: A virtually empty roster which would allow the Knicks to surround Lebron and whomsoever with the best role players for a LBJ-scenario.

I can understand your frustration but have a look at what Donnie had to deal with over the last two years. Whether we actually sign a big time FA this year or not, getting rid of all of these horrible contracts is a hell of a job already.


I guess u didnt know that 11 of the players out of the 15 man roster Walsh inhereted from Isiah were expiring contracts after the 2009-10 season.
Donnie Walsh only had to trade 4 players for lesser contracts within a 2 year time. Such an easy task to do.
Walsh added 20 new players on the team and none of their talent (except Larry Hughes) was on par with David Lee or Chandler.

A virtually empty roster is good to pull a top FA when it have a Super-Star on the team already, a Paul Pierce or a D.Wade, or a D.Howard.
The Knicks have nobody but a bum celebrity coach and a big fan base to entice a top FA. The Knicks may lose their best player David Lee to the FA market, making the Knicks look worst than a D.League team in the hunt for a top FA. When that happens and Donnie Walsh dont have anything up his sleeve to pull one of the top 10 FA in 2010, then he wont pull any top FA in 2011.

Knickerbocker glory
Jun 27, 2010, 06:36
A virtually empty roster is good to pull a top FA when it have a Super-Star on the team already, a Paul Pierce or a D.Wade, or a D.Howard.
The Knicks have nobody but a bum celebrity coach and a big fan base to entice a top FA. The Knicks may lose their best player David Lee to the FA market, making the Knicks look worst than a D.League team in the hunt for a top FA. When that happens and Donnie Walsh dont have anything up his sleeve to pull one of the top 10 FA in 2010, then he wont pull any top FA in 2011.

Kiyaman is right. The other 5 teams are going to sell their team not their city as the main focal point to Lebron! Passing on Brandon Jennings is going to haunt the Knicks in July! If the Knicks played in a small market, would they even be in the Lebron conversation?

pat
Jun 27, 2010, 16:35
I guess u didnt know that 11 of the players out of the 15 man roster Walsh inhereted from Isiah were expiring contracts after the 2009-10 season.
Donnie Walsh only had to trade 4 players for lesser contracts within a 2 year time. Such an easy task to do.

Yes, I knew. I did not say that it was incredibly hard to get us out of salary cap hell. I said it was the right thing to do. He also could have tried to fix the team using trades. He did not, which was a good choice. Not incredibly hard but right. I can also cannot see what is wrong with testing about 20 players. At least this gave us a chance to find players like Walker. Unfortunately we did not find more of them, but since the plan was not winning in the first place, why not? There was no chance to acquire a top-notch free agent beforehand in order to attract Lebron and another max-contract type of player.

And please stop bashing Dantoni. We all know you do not like him and turning each and every thread into a Dantoni-thread is kind of annoying.

Oldtimer
Jun 27, 2010, 17:35
If we do not get LeBron, we will not get Bosh. He will either follow Lebron or go to Miami where Wade will stay. I am not interested in Johnson or Amar'e, particularly at max contracts for five or six years. With them we might have a competitive team for a couple of years, but not a championship team ever. But we will have to deal with their max or almost max contracts for five or six years and once again be doomed to over the cap payrolls.

I am afraid, however, that Plan B is Johnson and Amar'e and Plan A is becoming less and less likely.

Knickerbocker glory
Jun 27, 2010, 18:06
If we do not get LeBron, we will not get Bosh. He will either follow Lebron or go to Miami where Wade will stay. I am not interested in Johnson or Amar'e, particularly at max contracts for five or six years. With them we might have a competitive team for a couple of years, but not a championship team ever. But we will have to deal with their max or almost max contracts for five or six years and once again be doomed to over the cap payrolls.

I am afraid, however, that Plan B is Johnson and Amar'e and Plan A is becoming less and less likely.

Not to mention Johnson and Amar'e look like injuries waiting to happen!!

With that being said I want to see the Knicks be competitive again this season. The Knicks were unwatchable these past two years!! I can't believe I'm saying this, but I would rather go down the Isaiah Thomas route by over paying 2nd tier FA's than watch another year of crapola!!

Velcro
Jun 27, 2010, 18:37
two things to say
Donnie Walsh> Isaiah Thomas GM wise
and
Mike D'antoni> Isaiah Thomac coach wise