Knicks Summer Report Card

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<!--End of nbaMidSeasonMainHeader--><!-- FINISH 'header' --><!-- Start of IE reportcard--><!-- REAP --><!--startclickprintexclude--> New York
Knicks
Atlantic

<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="249"> <tbody><tr> <td colspan="2" class="nbaMSTeamRating">2009-10 Team Rating</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="nbaMSTeamOffense">Offense</td><td class="nbaMSTeamDefense">Defense</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="nbaMSTeamOffenseNum">105.2</td><td class="nbaMSTeamDefenseNum">109.1</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="nbaMSTeamOffenseOverall">15th Overall</td><td class="nbaMSTeamDefenseOverall">27th Overall</td> </tr> </tbody></table>


2009-10 Season Stats
W

29


L

53


PCT

.354


GB

21


CONF

20-32


DIV

6-10


HOME

18-23


ROAD

11-30


<table border="1" bordercolor="#000000" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="570"> <tbody><tr> <td colspan="3" width="464" height="33"> Category
</td><td class="nbaMSTopGradeTitle">Grade</td> </tr> <tr class="nbaMSGradeColor"> <td colspan="3" width="464" height="80"> The Knicks overpaid to get him, but Amar'e Stoudemire is the best player they've had in a long time. Anthony Randolph gets a second chance to make a first impression.
</td><td width="105"> A
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" width="464" height="80"> Raymond Felton isn't the ideal point guard for Mike D'Antoni's system, but talent-wise, he's a big upgrade over what the Knicks have had the last two years.
</td><td width="105"> B
</td> </tr> <tr class="nbaMSGradeColor"> <td colspan="3" width="464" height="80"> Does this team even care about defense? If so, Ronny Turiaf and Kelenna Azubuike should help, but they're still lacking on that end.
</td><td width="105"> D
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" width="464" height="80"> The Knicks won't have the most talented bench, but they will have more players that D'Antoni can trust than they've had in the past.
</td><td width="105"> C
</td> </tr> <tr class="nbaMSGradeColor"> <td colspan="3" width="464" height="80"> The Knicks didn't get their top free agent target, but the grace period for D'Antoni is officially over. It's on him to make this team a winner.
</td><td width="105"> B
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
B



<!--endclickprintexclude--><!-- /REAP -->Summary
The Knicks shot for the moon in free agency. They missed, but they did nab a star. The process of turning this perennial loser into an Eastern Conference contender is far from over, but in addition to finding a centerpiece in Stoudemire, the Knicks retained the flexibility (something they haven't had in ages) to add more pieces down the road.
With almost an entirely new roster and with only a couple of players who have won anything in the NBA, it will still be a challenge to develop a winning atmosphere in the locker room. Talent alone does not get you anything in this league. And it will be up to D'Antoni to get the Knicks to play hard, play together, and maybe play a little defense.
While they wait on another star, the Knicks must start building a foundation. The two-year waiting game is over and it's time to finally start moving forward.
-- John Schuhmann

<!-- End of nbaMSSummaryTxt-->

Front court should be a B ans defense should be a C+

I'm so sick of the instant opinion of Knick defence.

Does this team even care about defense? If so, Ronny Turiaf and Kelenna Azubuike should help, but they're still lacking on that end.

Click to expand...

No one has even seen this team play D yet. But, the cock suckers in the media continue to breeze through their NYK slandering.

John Schuhmann, you are a **** wit.

This year, we're going to shut these faggots up.

Crazy8s said:

I'm so sick of the instant opinion of Knick defence.



No one has even seen this team play D yet. But, the cock suckers in the media continue to breeze through their NYK slandering.

John Schuhmann, you are a **** wit.

This year, we're going to shut these faggots up.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Felton, Randolph, Turiaf, Mozgov, Chandler, Douglas, Azubuike, Mason.

I'm more worried about scoring than defense with this squad. Our only real scorers are Amare and Gallo. The rest are defensive players.

I thought the same, I thought at best it was a C+. Also, if it was compared to last year a B+. Felton is not a bad defender and then you add the players from the Warriors. Chandler, Gallinari, and Douglas aren't bad themselves. The Defense this year has a lot of potential, with being long and having quick hands. The only problem I see the Knicks might have is rebounding.

Felton got lit up by Jameer Nelson in the playoffs last year..

But I do agree we have players who can play defense. I think the media might be justified however in questioning whether or not D'antoni will stay on these guys to play defense. That's probably their gripe with our and any D'antoni coached team's defense.

My ratings

this guy grades like an amateur, he doesn't know what the Knicks really have

Frontcourt: A-....Amare puts us up top but if Turiaf and Mozgov don't pan out being consistent, then we could have a problem and always playing Amare at Center is not good since we saw what a pure 4 does at the 5 (Lee). BUT Amare and a developed Randolph that breaks out this year...makes us an A front court.

Backcourt: B....Felton is a huge upgrade over Duhon and Douglas is a solid back up PG. The 2 spot is being rated as a black hole when really we have players that can fill the spots. Mason Jr. or Chandler can start until Azubuike is 100% healthy. Walker and Fields are good young back ups to play both the 2 and 3.

Defense:C+ This guy really under rates our defense. Now with a possible lineup of Felton, Chandler, Gallo, Amare, Turiaf and Randolph as a sixth man, Douglas as the 7th man...we have a full roster of players who can play defense at an average to above average level. Our back court can play good perimeter D, our wings can block shots and are long in length, and our bigs have athleticism and shotblocking ability so I don't see how he rated us a D. The only down side is Mike D, because he can't coach defense nor do we have any defensive specialist coaches like Tom Thibadeo was for Boston.

Bench: B- Our bench is also under rated. Douglas is a solid backup point, Mason Jr/Walker are very good outside shooters for the backup 2 spot behind probable starter, Wilson Chandler...and Azubuike is coming along. Anthony Randolph looks like to be our sixth man which makes us have possibly the best all around sixth man in the NBA. If Randolph starts then I see Chandler as the sixth man, and he too has good all around game and could be one of the best sixth men if healthy. Mozgov has show raw but impressive skills in the FIBA tournament and is a huge big man who can run the floor very well. He will be a role player in no time and is great at the pick and roll. We have a pretty good bench.

Coaching: D- the past two years and could be a C+ this year. Mike D finally has players that fit his style perfectly. He has the shooters, he has defenders, he has shot blockers, he has youth, athleticism, hustlers, big men, and one of the best post presences in Amare. We should win 45 games and make the playoffs this year. If not, then Mike D is gone.

overall grade B+
I didn't understand the grading for Coaching either, with the season he had with the Knicks there is no way he's a B.

Paul1355 is on the money with his gradings.

I do not want to evaluate our backcourt/frontcourt/offense/defense
bench players or starters before I see them perform within 10 games.
So far we have a 15 man roster, as a coach I would run a 9+ rotation of:

PG-Felton, Douglas, Rautins
SG-Azu (injury), Mason, Walker
SF-Chandler, Gallo, Ewing, Randoplh, Fields
PF-Amare, Turiaf
C-Curry, Mozgov

At PG I like Douglas, at SG I like Azu but will settle for Mason,
at SF I like Chandler, at PF I like Amare, at center I dont like
either so I will settle with an inside PF-Turiaf.
Those players would be my starters.
Felton would be my 6th-man (to make him do a 360 improvement of
the 5 yrs of Bullshuuuut he gave to the Bobcats).
I like Ewing Jr. defensive-rebounding over raw Randolph,
but I doubt if Ewing makes the team.
So Gallo & Randolph would become my trio with Felton off the bench
in the first quarter to start the 2nd quarter. Replacing Mason, Chandler,
and Turiaf. Chandler & Walker will start the 2nd quarter backing up Amare and Douglas.
The 2nd quarter starters would be PG-Felton, SG-Walker, SF-Gallo, SF-
Chandler, and SF-Randolph vs oponents bench players.
An easy 9-man rotation in the first half of the game to start players meshing
on offense/defense together the first 20 games of the season.
Yeah, my rotation of players are wierd and strange b/c we need
offense/defense/and fouls given on the court for 48 minutes.

Damntoni is a small rotation coach that might see far beyond his favoritism
coaching to play a 8-man rotation this season. But that is a big might!
Im tired of seeing several Knick players receive 30+ minutes of playingtime
with only 1 or 2 fouls at the end of a losing Knick game.

Kiyaman said:

I do not want to evaluate our backcourt/frontcourt/offense/defense
bench players or starters before I see them perform within 10 games.
So far we have a 15 man roster, as a coach I would run a 9+ rotation of:

PG-Felton, Douglas, Rautins
SG-Azu (injury), Mason, Walker
SF-Chandler, Gallo, Ewing, Randoplh, Fields
PF-Amare, Turiaf
C-Curry, Mozgov

At PG I like Douglas, at SG I like Azu but will settle for Mason,
at SF I like Chandler, at PF I like Amare, at center I dont like
either so I will settle with an inside PF-Turiaf.
Those players would be my starters.
Felton would be my 6th-man (to make him do a 360 improvement of
the 5 yrs of Bullshuuuut he gave to the Bobcats).
I like Ewing Jr. defensive-rebounding over raw Randolph,
but I doubt if Ewing makes the team.
So Gallo & Randolph would become my trio with Felton off the bench
in the first quarter to start the 2nd quarter. Replacing Mason, Chandler,
and Turiaf. Chandler & Walker will start the 2nd quarter backing up Amare and Douglas.
The 2nd quarter starters would be PG-Felton, SG-Walker, SF-Gallo, SF-
Chandler, and SF-Randolph vs oponents bench players.
An easy 9-man rotation in the first half of the game to start players meshing
on offense/defense together the first 20 games of the season.
Yeah, my rotation of players are wierd and strange b/c we need
offense/defense/and fouls given on the court for 48 minutes.

Damntoni is a small rotation coach that might see far beyond his favoritism
coaching to play a 8-man rotation this season. But that is a big might!
Im tired of seeing several Knick players receive 30+ minutes of playingtime
with only 1 or 2 fouls at the end of a losing Knick game.

Click to expand...

Haha I'm sorry but I couldn't resist. You know what doing a 360 degree improvement means right? :teeth:

Starting Douglas over Felton?? Starting Chandler over Gallinari??? You don't like Amare at center, but you put in the lightweight Randolph at C off the bench??? Seriously? You want a semi good defense while sacrificing all semblance of any offense.

I strongly disagree. Felton needs to prove he can be a distributer. He'll be running pick and rolls with Amare at Center. We NEED shooters so Gallinari has to be on the court to space things out along with Mason/Buike/Walker also camping the 3 line. Randolph can slash, shoot the midrange or go for the offensive rebound aferwards. Turiaf can be put in as center and do the same job.

So pick and roll starts things out. Amare streaking to the basket for an easy basket. Opponents can't afford to double or help because of our shooters and Felton has plenty of options depending on what the defense gives him.

This is the year where a couple of unknowns have to be able to prove themselves. This makes for a hell of a lot fun and a great team to root for. You gotta give them a chance to try to run this Dantoni style and see what they can do. If they fail, at least it wasn't because we never tried.

iJoe said:

Haha I'm sorry but I couldn't resist. You know what doing a 360 degree improvement means right? :teeth:

Starting Douglas over Felton?? Starting Chandler over Gallinari??? You don't like Amare at center, but you put in the lightweight Randolph at C off the bench??? Seriously? You want a semi good defense while sacrificing all semblance of any offense.

I strongly disagree. Felton needs to prove he can be a distributer. He'll be running pick and rolls with Amare at Center. We NEED shooters so Gallinari has to be on the court to space things out along with Mason/Buike/Walker also camping the 3 line. Randolph can slash, shoot the midrange or go for the offensive rebound aferwards. Turiaf can be put in as center and do the same job.

So pick and roll starts things out. Amare streaking to the basket for an easy basket. Opponents can't afford to double or help because of our shooters and Felton has plenty of options depending on what the defense gives him.

This is the year where a couple of unknowns have to be able to prove themselves. This makes for a hell of a lot fun and a great team to root for. You gotta give them a chance to try to run this Dantoni style and see what they can do. If they fail, at least it wasn't because we never tried.

Click to expand...

u do recall the backcourt of Felton/Richardson right? well Richardson
& Jackson made PG-Davis shine in GS. Felton did not shine at all having
those two star SG in the backcourt with him.
I would rather Felton earn his starting position by out performing oponents
bench players. I notice Douglas performance plays to the competition performance
plus his mistakes on offense he makes up with his defense. u and many may
not see this in his performance but I will repeat "Douglas was a steal in the
draft".
Tuiaf & Randolph were bench players on GSW having inconsistent
performances vs oponents bench players.
So me putting Randolph in the rotation vs oponents bench players is best
for Randolph to build consistency in his performance.
Gallo vs SF-Starters in the NBA is asking for another 1-11 start.
Wilson Chandler earned the starting SF position being force all last season
to perform at the SG spot. Plus if Dantoni want to win more than he lose its
best to start Chandler at SF tandem with Amare at PF.
:gony:

I'm guessing you still don't know what a 360 degree improvement is right?

We need shooters and yet you have a love fetish with Chandler. He can be a great slasher off the bench and hopefully learn more of a post game. Even you have to admit his jumper is lacking.

Why is having Gallo starting such a bad idea? Hes improving each year and he actual has some passion for the game. He'll space out the floor and make it easier on everyone.

Turiaf/Randolph while not ideal starters are still better options for our squad. Golden state never had much of a lineup due to the insane way Nelson coached. Randolph in particular shined when he had minutes. Keep in mind he still needs to recover from injuries.

We need a distributor to bring the team together. Douglas is more natural at scoring though I hope he'll improve this year. Felton has been underwhelming in the past, but he's one of those rare pass first guards and his 3 shot has been improving each year. Keep in mind Felton has been chained by Larry Brown's slow it to a crawl system. Let the guy play a few games before you lose all faith in him. Richardson/Jackson benefited more from a change in system, not a change in PGs. Jackson actually played better on the Bobcats.

Kiyaman said:

u do recall the backcourt of Felton/Richardson right? well Richardson
& Jackson made PG-Davis shine in GS. Felton did not shine at all having
those two star SG in the backcourt with him.
I would rather Felton earn his starting position by out performing oponents
bench players. I notice Douglas performance plays to the competition performance
plus his mistakes on offense he makes up with his defense. u and many may
not see this in his performance but I will repeat "Douglas was a steal in the
draft".
Tuiaf & Randolph were bench players on GSW having inconsistent
performances vs oponents bench players.
So me putting Randolph in the rotation vs oponents bench players is best
for Randolph to build consistency in his performance.
Gallo vs SF-Starters in the NBA is asking for another 1-11 start.
Wilson Chandler earned the starting SF position being force all last season
to perform at the SG spot. Plus if Dantoni want to win more than he lose its best to start Chandler at SF tandem with Amare at PF.
:gony:

Click to expand...

Sorry Kia but you've got it all wrong. It is best to provide spacing for Amare to work in and around the paint to maximize his effectiveness. How do you do that? Play Gallo at SF, who can stretch the defense with his outside shooting and make teams pay for cheating on defense.

Its not about who earned it LAST SEASON. Its about who compliments the other more. We have a different roster now so stop basing your strategy off of last seasons shitty team.
:gony:

The thing is...

The Knicks have lacked in shotblocking for a while now. But...if memory serves correctly...wasn't Anthony Randolph amongst the league leaders in blocked shots before he got hurt last year?

If we give Turiaf and Randolph enough minutes combined with Mozgov over at the 5 we could see a whole lot of blocks in the coming season. TBQH I was getting tired of seeing any player 6'9 or taller basically manhandling David Lee at will

nyk_nyk said:

Sorry Kia but you've got it all wrong. It is best to provide spacing for Amare to work in and around the paint to maximize his effectiveness. How do you do that? Play Gallo at SF, who can stretch the defense with his outside shooting and make teams pay for cheating on defense.

Its not about who earned it LAST SEASON. Its about who compliments the other more. We have a different roster now so stop basing your strategy off of last seasons shitty team.
:gony:

Click to expand...

Who provided spacing for Amare outstanding season and in the playoffs?
Lopez? Amunson? Frye? Hill? before real

What shitty team are u talking about? the GSW or the Gallo/Jefferie
frontcourt Knicks?

The first thing u need to understand is the short rotation coach we have never got any where with 4 All-Star players using his short rotation.
Our new roster of young players Douglas/Fields/Chandler/Randolph/Gallo will be best performing when we get a new headcoach that knows how to divide playingtime well enough to win more games than he lose by having a 9+ man rotation.
Having knowledge of the past is best to build a future.
In 2005 to 2007 the DNP on F/C-Kurt Thomas for practically two seasons when Kurt Thomas performance in the playoffs "almost" overmatch the Spurs in a series (if Amare wasnt suspended one game) should show u its not the players but the coaching of the players.
Do not forget it was Kurt Thomas 28 mpg performance in a Spur uniform that provided the big help to sweep Dantoni Phoenix Suns in the first round vs Shaq & Amare in 2007-8 playoffs.

We gave this short rotation coach a chance to learn how to increase his rotation style of coaching with alot of mediocre role-players last season, but the stuborn ego headcoach was to stupid to see the light ahead of the tunnel and caused conflict between players so he could run his short 7 man rotation..

Kiyaman said:

In 2005 to 2007 the DNP on F/C-Kurt Thomas for practically two seasons when Kurt Thomas performance in the playoffs "almost" overmatch the Spurs in a series (if Amare wasnt suspended one game) should show u its not the players but the coaching of the players.
Do not forget it was Kurt Thomas 28 mpg performance in a Spur uniform that provided the big help to sweep Dantoni Phoenix Suns in the first round vs Shaq & Amare in 2007-8 playoffs.

Click to expand...

As I said in another thread, D'Antoni played Thomas about 21 MPG. After he left PHX, he played about 18 mpg the remainder of his career.

28 MPG in the 2007-08 playoffs for Thomas with the Spurs? Thomas averaged 15 mpg in the 2007-08 playoffs dude. EDIT: I just checked...Thomas played 19 MPG (4 more than in San Antonio) in 2006-07 when coached by...you guessed it...Mike D'Antoni. If Kiya won't listen, maybe someone will...do not listen to the Thomas argument, it is fatally flawed. He played only about Twenty TWO minutes per in the Suns series and had a lower defensive rating in game one than Ime Udoka and Jacque Vaughn. He had a lower defensive rating in game 2 than Udoka, Vaughn and Brent Barry. In game 3 he played well (a game in which he started). In game 4 he started (the Spurs lost) and Thomas was worse defensively than every other Spurs starter. In game 5 he started (the Spurs won) and he had a lower defensive rating than every starter except Duncan (who he tied with).

I already debunked your totally wrong/flawed/ignorant Thomas argument, just quit it.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomaku01.html

just for you statisticians out there, Thomas is not a stat guy, he does the little things to help a team win, he's a scrappy player, and stats will never reflect his high basketball IQ ans his vet savy ways....
defensive ratings are not the start all and end all in defense. jusssayin

Toons said:

just for you statisticians out there, Thomas is not a stat guy, he does the little things to help a team win, he's a scrappy player, and stats will never reflect his high basketball IQ ans his vet savy ways....
defensive ratings are not the start all and end all in defense. jusssayin

Click to expand...

Well then by what metric do you suggest? The very fact that I debunked Kiyaman's mpg argument showing D'Antoni played Thomas more than Popovich did (something we can all look at objectively) I believe tends to discredit any other theory he has. D-Rating from BBall-reference is the best # we have so far to measure a player's effectiveness.

KBlack25 said:

As I said in another thread, D'Antoni played Thomas about 21 MPG. After he left PHX, he played about 18 mpg the remainder of his career.

28 MPG in the 2007-08 playoffs for Thomas with the Spurs? Thomas averaged 15 mpg in the 2007-08 playoffs dude. EDIT: I just checked...Thomas played 19 MPG (4 more than in San Antonio) in 2006-07 when coached by...you guessed it...Mike D'Antoni. If Kiya won't listen, maybe someone will...do not listen to the Thomas argument, it is fatally flawed. He played only about Twenty TWO minutes per in the Suns series and had a lower defensive rating in game one than Ime Udoka and Jacque Vaughn. He had a lower defensive rating in game 2 than Udoka, Vaughn and Brent Barry. In game 3 he played well (a game in which he started). In game 4 he started (the Spurs lost) and Thomas was worse defensively than every other Spurs starter. In game 5 he started (the Spurs won) and he had a lower defensive rating than every starter except Duncan (who he tied with).

I already debunked your totally wrong/flawed/ignorant Thomas argument, just quit it.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomaku01.html

Click to expand...

Would u please stop this.
Kurt Thomas may have averaged 18 mpg throughout the Spurs 2007-8 playoff to the WCF vs Lakers, but coach Pop let Kurt averaged 28 mpg thoughout the Suns series. Kurt Thomas played 29 minutes in the first game of the Spurs vs Suns series

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280419024
enough is enough

Kiyaman said:

Would u please stop this.
Kurt Thomas may have averaged 18 mpg throughout the Spurs 2007-8 playoff to the WCF vs Lakers, but coach Pop let Kurt averaged 28 mpg thoughout the Suns series. Kurt Thomas played 29 minutes in the first game of the Spurs vs Suns series

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280419024
enough is enough

Click to expand...

Kurt Thomas' minutes played for the Spurs v. Suns in the 2007-08 Playoffs:

28:56 (call it 29)
13:20 (call it 13.5)
22:50 (call it 23)
14:43 (call it 15)
33:46 (call it 34)

Note first that all numbers are rounded upward (in your favor)...

29 + 13.5 + 23 +15 + 34 = 114.5

114.5 / 5 = 22.9

22.9 < 28.


In the 2007-08 playoffs Kurt Thomas played 268 minutes in 17 games for the San Antonio Spurs and Popovich.
In the 2006-07 playoffs Kurt Thomas played 212 minutes in 11 games for the Phoenix Suns and Mike D'Antoni.

2007-08 - 268 minutes divided by 17 games = 15.76 minutes per game under Popovich.
2006-07 - 212 minutes divided by 11 games = 19.27 minutes per game under D'Antoni.

You cannot debate these numbers unless you just refuse to believe the cold hard facts sitting in front of you.