More food for D'Antoni haters
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KnicksWillRiseAgain
Superstar
I dont know what to make of that quote. very confusing.
Hes not saying he doesn't want to come to NY with D'Antoni as coach is he?
Hes not saying he doesn't want to come to NY with D'Antoni as coach is he?
metrocard
Legend
He's not feeling the system where defense isn't promoted.
But yet, he's in a system where defense isn't quite enforced as well.
StEpHoN_mArBuRy
All Star
You've got a point there..
Atleast when Lebron said it he was on a cavs team which was always near the top in the NBA defensively.. And he's a great help defender.. Melo on the other hand is never noted as having any sort of strength on the defensive end..
Atleast when Lebron said it he was on a cavs team which was always near the top in the NBA defensively.. And he's a great help defender.. Melo on the other hand is never noted as having any sort of strength on the defensive end..
KingCharles34
All Star
I've seen melo play really great defense when he wants to, but hes not consistent with it. What i get from that is Carmello thinks Dantoni has his strengths and weaknesses as a coach. what coach doesnt?
Truth. And sometimes you gotta FAIL and have a weakness exposed on a BIG stage to truly change, and be an evolution. A la Pau Gasol being soft and no-D until he got exposed one yr with LA in playoffs. He came back a chiseled beast and is now trademarked by tenacity and hardness and effort on D.
He was like 28 or so then. Melo is...26?
I see NYC bringing out Melo's best, and transforming his worst. Hopefully we'll see.
Melo is just voicing a natural concern and chewing the shit. If it was popovich he may very well have replaced being weak on D in how an restrictive offense can stagnate a playsrs game some., etc
Mike D's teams have always sucked on defense but could deal with it because they were top 3 on offense....we are not even close to top 3 on offense so we have to improve defense....problem is mike d doenst teach that
nuckles2k2
Superstar
Does he teach anything? Outside of having Steve Nash, being one of a handful of coaches on Team USA, and writing a book....what has he done?
metrocard
Legend
Developed Amare Stoudimire, Joe Johnson Leandro Barbosa, Boris Diaw, restored the careers of Raja Bell, Grant Hill, and Steve Nash. Led the Suns to the Western Conference Finals a couple of times.
Just to remind you...
Phil Weber developed Amare's jump shot
Steve Nash ran Mike D's offense and coached on the floor.
Amare became a top PF because of Nash.
Joe Johnson gives Mike D credit for starting him in Phoenix when he averaged 17 ppg, one season development? Mike D exposed a good player in Johnson, thats it.
Dont know much about Diaw but he was a good player for the Suns.
Barbosa is perfect for fast break teams, fast "the blur"
Bell has a great outside shot
Hill is actually better now, Mike D didnt do anything to help Hill IMO...Hill helped himself and stayed away from injuries
And Nash teamed up with great wing players and a dominate slasher in Amare, so how did Mike D restore careers?
Whoever was the GM restored everyone's career, even Mike D's who had a few bad seasons before winning over 50 games.
Any coach could have had success with that team
Nash, Amare, Barbosa, Marion, Diaw, Johnson...come on now.
The main problem is that he never went to the finals...so right there tells you Mike D isn't good enough to get over the hump, even with an all around solid team.
Don't give too much credit to the coach for helping the players when the coach had a stacked lineup and one of the best PG's in the NBA.
An example of a good coach right now is Byron Scott...the Cavs are 5-5 without Lebron and are playing solid basketball. Scott is getting the best out of every player.
Mike Brown could not beat teams without Lebron.
Scott can.
A "good" coach can get the most of players and adjusts, Mike D doesn't.
Mike Brown could not beat teams without Lebron.
Scott can.
A "good" coach can get the most of players and adjusts, Mike D doesn't.
Well put.....
I agree, plus it was headcoach Frank Johnson who coached Amare into getting
the rookie of the year (ROY).
Headcoach Frank Johnson getting FIRED b/c he started the 2003 season with
Joe Johnson as Phoenix starting SG. Which upset Penny Hardaway into going to the
media to become more of a nusaince in the lockerroom than shoot-first
Marbury towards coach Frank Johnson
Lineup: Marbury/JJ/Marion/Amare/Voskuhl
It's a political shame how u never see Steve Nash in a Dallas Mavs uniform
with Finley & Dirk running an uptempo offense. Nash final season with the
Mavs they had a 52 win season. Nash was a double-double PG with top-skills
at passing the ball to moving/cutting/slashing teammates, and Amare, Marion,
and Joe Johnson were all "above the rim players", while Q.Brick sat on the 3-
ball line. u dont need an offensive-coach for that starting 5 lineup.
:teeth: :smokin: :teeth:
I agree, plus it was headcoach Frank Johnson who coached Amare into getting
the rookie of the year (ROY).
:agreed:, plus it was......
Headcoach Frank Johnson getting FIRED b/c he started the 2003 season with
Joe Johnson as Phoenix starting SG. Which upset Penny Hardaway into going to the
media to become more of a nusaince in the lockerroom than shoot-first
Marbury towards coach Frank Johnson
Lineup: Marbury/JJ/Marion/Amare/Voskuhl
:agreed::agreed::agreed:
It's a political shame how u never see Steve Nash in a Dallas Mavs uniform
with Finley & Dirk running an uptempo offense. Nash final season with the
Mavs they had a 52 win season. Nash was a double-double PG with top-skills
at passing the ball to moving/cutting/slashing teammates, and Amare, Marion,
and Joe Johnson were all "above the rim players", while Q.Brick sat on the 3-
ball line. u dont need an offensive-coach for that starting 5 lineup.
:teeth: :smokin: :teeth:
Mike D had the best PG in the NBA??????
Nash was an aging vet, fringe all-star hopeful before he paired up with D'ant...
He only then became "of the absolute best PGs", put up historic seasons, and catapulted himself into MVPs and fringe HOF status.
For a vet PG at his age it's virtually unprecendeted to have that type of ascendance to greatness.
And along with this, that so many young players (Diaw, Bell, eg) developed into versatile offensive weapons , maximizing their skills?
SO:
If Amare only became a top PF because Nash (BECAME) a toptop elite PG....and the rest of the team developed because of all this....
How did Nash BECOME a top PG and so suddenly catapult his career?
I'll say D'antoni and give him a good bit of credit for this until you can give a more compelling alternative.
And along with that credit to Nash, it must then be extended to STAT and the other raw Sun players on that team who suddenly found themselves and developed into unique, effective ballers.
Nash was an aging vet, fringe all-star hopeful before he paired up with D'ant...
He only then became "of the absolute best PGs", put up historic seasons, and catapulted himself into MVPs and fringe HOF status.
For a vet PG at his age it's virtually unprecendeted to have that type of ascendance to greatness.
And along with this, that so many young players (Diaw, Bell, eg) developed into versatile offensive weapons , maximizing their skills?
SO:
If Amare only became a top PF because Nash (BECAME) a toptop elite PG....and the rest of the team developed because of all this....
How did Nash BECOME a top PG and so suddenly catapult his career?
I'll say D'antoni and give him a good bit of credit for this until you can give a more compelling alternative.
And along with that credit to Nash, it must then be extended to STAT and the other raw Sun players on that team who suddenly found themselves and developed into unique, effective ballers.
I'll throw the bone of being honest and start with Nash's prime years with the Mavs. His 5th season in the NBA, and through his 29th birthday, and 8th season in the NBA.
Ironically, we have peeps pigeon holing Gallo into a trash can in his 3rd season, 2nd season as a full-time regular, at the age of *22*
But let's leave that aside and commence the history lesson on Nash to re-affirm the fact based assertions on his career and relationship to D'ant that have been getting stated by KO posters:
26 Yr Old Nash (Points/Assists/FG%/3pt%)
15-7-406-486
27 Yr Old Nash (a logical, history-proven time to reach your prime and ceiling, and a career year for Steve Nash)
18-7.7-483-455
28 Yr Old Nash (slight and medium dips in production and numbers, but to be expected for a 28yr old coming off a Career Year)
18-7-465-413
29 Yr Old Nash (8th NBA season, two years past career year, stating to reach decline years, settled into himself as a player. Hopefully, he can stave off decline and mimic this production for another few years)
14-9-470-405
30 YEAR OLD NASH MEETS MIKE D'ANTONI COACHING (set career highs in assists and FG%, one of his best 3pt seasons, and upward trend in points..at 30 years old in a NEW SYSTEM year 1)
15.5-11.5-503-431
31 YR OLD NASH AFTER INITIAL D'ANTONI COACHING YEAR (career year in points, pre-D'ant best in assists, career high in FG% with 2nd best 3pt year. Huh?)
19-10.5-512-440
32 YR OLD NASH (new career like highs with D'ant in points, assists, FG%, 3pt %)
18.6-11.6-532-455
I'll save some die hard haters the trouble: he goes on to replicate this production along with newfound career high 3pt shooting, wins MULTIPLE MVPs.
At advanced NBA age. After having settled into who he was, having had The Career Year.
Yet he suddenly becomes HOF-like, multiple MVP winning legend, beasting his career trend and career numbers.
I guess D'ant couldn't have had anything to do with this.
Or the ensuing developments of STAT, diaw, bell...which you say was from Nash. Yet logic, fact, history, and NBA expert analysis speaks pretty clearly that D'ant had his footprints all over this, starting with Nash.
I don't give a major shit about D'ant and have questioned him hard on some things. But this is about a mindset. I just want the Knicks to win and get to a dynasty.
Going off and off on trying to roast d'ant no matter what...The denial of fact and logics and patience just sets a bad precedent. Even if Mike D isn't right for us, and should go, and will go...Hit him for what he actually has done or not done.
Ironically, we have peeps pigeon holing Gallo into a trash can in his 3rd season, 2nd season as a full-time regular, at the age of *22*
But let's leave that aside and commence the history lesson on Nash to re-affirm the fact based assertions on his career and relationship to D'ant that have been getting stated by KO posters:
26 Yr Old Nash (Points/Assists/FG%/3pt%)
15-7-406-486
27 Yr Old Nash (a logical, history-proven time to reach your prime and ceiling, and a career year for Steve Nash)
18-7.7-483-455
28 Yr Old Nash (slight and medium dips in production and numbers, but to be expected for a 28yr old coming off a Career Year)
18-7-465-413
29 Yr Old Nash (8th NBA season, two years past career year, stating to reach decline years, settled into himself as a player. Hopefully, he can stave off decline and mimic this production for another few years)
14-9-470-405
30 YEAR OLD NASH MEETS MIKE D'ANTONI COACHING (set career highs in assists and FG%, one of his best 3pt seasons, and upward trend in points..at 30 years old in a NEW SYSTEM year 1)
15.5-11.5-503-431
31 YR OLD NASH AFTER INITIAL D'ANTONI COACHING YEAR (career year in points, pre-D'ant best in assists, career high in FG% with 2nd best 3pt year. Huh?)
19-10.5-512-440
32 YR OLD NASH (new career like highs with D'ant in points, assists, FG%, 3pt %)
18.6-11.6-532-455
I'll save some die hard haters the trouble: he goes on to replicate this production along with newfound career high 3pt shooting, wins MULTIPLE MVPs.
At advanced NBA age. After having settled into who he was, having had The Career Year.
Yet he suddenly becomes HOF-like, multiple MVP winning legend, beasting his career trend and career numbers.
I guess D'ant couldn't have had anything to do with this.
Or the ensuing developments of STAT, diaw, bell...which you say was from Nash. Yet logic, fact, history, and NBA expert analysis speaks pretty clearly that D'ant had his footprints all over this, starting with Nash.
I don't give a major shit about D'ant and have questioned him hard on some things. But this is about a mindset. I just want the Knicks to win and get to a dynasty.
Going off and off on trying to roast d'ant no matter what...The denial of fact and logics and patience just sets a bad precedent. Even if Mike D isn't right for us, and should go, and will go...Hit him for what he actually has done or not done.
Except it's not luck. It's design. Losers often bitch and harp about luck; winners make what losers perceive as "luck" by design (skill, talent, logic, patience, conviction).
Making blanket false-assed statements like Nash MADE D'antoni...That he had nothing to do with Nash's ascendence...Or the other prospects and raw youth who developed into eminent talent in unison..
The implication that D'ant is clueless...can't foster talent...has no system to make question marks good players and good players great...that he is hopeless, that we are then hopeless with him....that Gallo should be treated like. 10cent ho because D'ant likes him.
It's false. It's rooted in irrational, denial of fact, pessimism. And people reaching to roast D'ant for anything they can spin.
It just cheapens and discredits the many valid points that could be made against him anyways.
So choke on a CLOWN's fat red nose, and when the paramedics bring you back to life let's hope the experience knocked some sense and perspective into you.
TR1LL10N
Hannibal Lecter
Excellent and powerful post. It's sad that some have to whittle this debate down to haters verse D'antsexuals. Where is the nuance? Why can't one separate the fair from unfair criticisms without being accused of blind support? Posts like these need to be the norm not the exception!
Thx for props broheem. We're def eye to eye on the D'antoni situation. Which really extends into other areas bc like you say...it's as much to do w a general mindset and approach.
I won't front. When I came to KO I didn't know dick about our NYK's and was more just a casual follower who heavily despised Isiah and Dolan's moves, but mainly followed the Knicks outta just love NY and sports in general.
Lotta posts by you, but also Metro, abdc, OGK, kblack, MSG, et al. got me into the site, and then Knick basketball, bc of the blend of nuance and powerful fact mixed with humor and the occasional battles.
Gallo situ is like D'ants, but will clear itself up in the supreme court of reality one way or another. It's tough to truly gauge coaches; so much nuance, good bit of conjecture, and you need sample sizes to analyze w no bias.