exactly...for some reason it seemed like dolan low balled him when riley wanted some sort of stake in the Knicks.. well why not give it to him? he was already a legend by time he got to the knicks. Again, foolish and shortsighted ownership... Losing riley was HUGE!!!
Derek Fisher Fired.
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exactly...for some reason it seemed like dolan low balled him when riley wanted some sort of stake in the Knicks.. well why not give it to him? he was already a legend by time he got to the knicks. Again, foolish and shortsighted ownership... Losing riley was HUGE!!!
well why not give it to him? he came to the knicks and instantly made them credible and this is with us having Ewing on the team already. Guys like that you pay up for..he was already a legend before he got here. You really think he was holding the Knicks ransom? The guy came in with a resume and produced results.. yet we have had guys come here, especially players with a checkered resume, and didn't produce any sort of winning here and all fans can say is... "GET YOUR MONEY m--O!!!!"
with all of the money spent on Larry brown, Isiah Thomas, Scott layden,Dantoni, walsh, they could have given riley his money and stake in MSG and still come out on top...
mafra
Legend
Look at how Riley built MIA thru the years... Alonzo and Hardaway era, to the Wade title, to winning the Lebron sweepstakes, to quickly recovering from the LJ departure (we grab Langston from D-league while MIA snag Whiteside and trade for Dragic)...
That entire fiasco was a Checketts and Dolan sr issue... Riley is to blame some... But slick leaving was a major blow... It wasn't realized immediately bc we had JVG and Thibideau leading a Riley-built roster... But once that rusted and Pat's players left... Darkness from then to now except for 1 50-win season... 16 years of woe!
That entire fiasco was a Checketts and Dolan sr issue... Riley is to blame some... But slick leaving was a major blow... It wasn't realized immediately bc we had JVG and Thibideau leading a Riley-built roster... But once that rusted and Pat's players left... Darkness from then to now except for 1 50-win season... 16 years of woe!
And what is so odd about that is that the knicks continued to pay up big time for big names after that. Dantoni, Isiah, Larry Brown, and each time, dolan stuck his nose in and pretty much ruined those situations... I actually think walsh was doing an OK job, not great, but he was surely getting the franchise back to some level of respectability and dolan interferes again...
Dolan has been the biggest culprit here...It goes to show not only bad player decisions, but bad management decisions can set you back for Years!
And Riley is still in Miami 20 years later. Giving him a stake maybe would have prevented the Knicks revolving door at the top, though with Dolan you never know but I'm sure we would have won a title in the last 20 years if he was running the show.
mafra
Legend
Amen. It's why trading Ewing for bad contract, then trading them for more bad contracts... Eschewing the draft (trading picks for Mcdyess and Curry)... Doomed Dolan and led to a lost decade.
He tried to imitate his daddy, who brought in the BIG fish, but each legend Dolan Jr brought in flopped and floundered and ultimately failed.
Worse thing is... He keeps repeating his mistakes. It got so bad, NBA had to step in and force Walsh on NYK.
I thought Walsh had a sound plan but I think he set team back, of which we are still paying for that. When the an is to fail and lose and pave way for Lebron... And you give away all your players for peanuts (didn't even grab draft picks for Randolph AAnd Crawford)... Then you cannot build a vet team (Harrington, Hughes, Duhon)... Why win 29 games? If we would've lost 4 games more those first 2 seasons of Danotni... We have Russell Westbrook and Steph Curry right now!
Oh, and Randolph and Crawford are still productive contributors...
Now, Walsh handled Melo trade perfectly...he was willing to surrender Gallinari and Chandler (bc we weren't going to re-sign Wilson)... Even Felton was fine, bc we would get Billups... He drew line at Mozgov, and wisely so...
Den had no leverage. Walsh was prepared to call everyone's bluff, preferring to hold on to all his assets and let Melo come that summer in free agency... Then Dolan stepped in... Rest, unfortunately, is history
He tried to imitate his daddy, who brought in the BIG fish, but each legend Dolan Jr brought in flopped and floundered and ultimately failed.
Worse thing is... He keeps repeating his mistakes. It got so bad, NBA had to step in and force Walsh on NYK.
I thought Walsh had a sound plan but I think he set team back, of which we are still paying for that. When the an is to fail and lose and pave way for Lebron... And you give away all your players for peanuts (didn't even grab draft picks for Randolph AAnd Crawford)... Then you cannot build a vet team (Harrington, Hughes, Duhon)... Why win 29 games? If we would've lost 4 games more those first 2 seasons of Danotni... We have Russell Westbrook and Steph Curry right now!
Oh, and Randolph and Crawford are still productive contributors...
Now, Walsh handled Melo trade perfectly...he was willing to surrender Gallinari and Chandler (bc we weren't going to re-sign Wilson)... Even Felton was fine, bc we would get Billups... He drew line at Mozgov, and wisely so...
Den had no leverage. Walsh was prepared to call everyone's bluff, preferring to hold on to all his assets and let Melo come that summer in free agency... Then Dolan stepped in... Rest, unfortunately, is history
I totally agree with everyone saying it would have been worth it to the team on the court tremendously to give Riley whatever he wanted. That said, if you owned a company, would you be willing to just give part ownership away even to your very best employee? We're the Knicks. Even when we are the worst team in the league, we are still the 1st or 2nd most valuable team in it.
Im upset with Phil Jackson
Phil knew 2 years ago, Derek Fisher and Kurt Rambis are great assistant coaches.
Fisher would've made a great assistant for Steve Kerr
The Cleveland Cavs will have first Thibs on hiring the best head coach in offseason.
The rumors of Phil going back to LA soon are getting a lot of talk.
The best head coach for the Knicks to hire ASAP are Mark Jackson"
Coach Mark Jackson did a great job on clicking Klay n Curry tandem in getting all their teammates involve
Coach Gentry did a great job teaching Klay n Curry how to run the SSOL
Steve Kerr has been vacationing throughout GS 46-4 record
Phil knew 2 years ago, Derek Fisher and Kurt Rambis are great assistant coaches.
Fisher would've made a great assistant for Steve Kerr
The Cleveland Cavs will have first Thibs on hiring the best head coach in offseason.
The rumors of Phil going back to LA soon are getting a lot of talk.
The best head coach for the Knicks to hire ASAP are Mark Jackson"
Coach Mark Jackson did a great job on clicking Klay n Curry tandem in getting all their teammates involve
Coach Gentry did a great job teaching Klay n Curry how to run the SSOL
Steve Kerr has been vacationing throughout GS 46-4 record
mafra
Legend
I agree. Thibideau is my first choice, Mark Jax my second, JVG isnt an option bc of Dolan.
With that said, we rewarded Woodson with a contract bc of his interim success. I'm prepared to give Rambis the rest of this season to show if he can get this group to respond...
If Thibs really wants NYK... He'll be smart to wait... Jax wont last long... Even if he doesnt get it this year... It'll be open soon enough (Jax will bolt to LA as soon as possible).
To me, a marriage between Thibs or Jax and PJ's assistant (Rambis, Shaw, Clemmons) is best for our future... This way we're safe when Jax departs.
Some say Thibs wears out his welcome? Plz... You dont want those players who wont accept coaching. Time to install the SA way... The HC has to be the most powerful persona, amd then your star players follow their lead. Thibs and KP and GRant and LT will be thr foundation... A perfct mix to start something special... A team willing to put in the work, play defense, and be coached.
With that said, we rewarded Woodson with a contract bc of his interim success. I'm prepared to give Rambis the rest of this season to show if he can get this group to respond...
If Thibs really wants NYK... He'll be smart to wait... Jax wont last long... Even if he doesnt get it this year... It'll be open soon enough (Jax will bolt to LA as soon as possible).
To me, a marriage between Thibs or Jax and PJ's assistant (Rambis, Shaw, Clemmons) is best for our future... This way we're safe when Jax departs.
Some say Thibs wears out his welcome? Plz... You dont want those players who wont accept coaching. Time to install the SA way... The HC has to be the most powerful persona, amd then your star players follow their lead. Thibs and KP and GRant and LT will be thr foundation... A perfct mix to start something special... A team willing to put in the work, play defense, and be coached.
the owners are doing worse, they are giving a percentage of revenue to the players which results in a lot of average players making more money than ever..
A lot of companies give successful CEO's stock options and ownership in the company.. why not? A great executive can stay with an organization for years outlasting any players playing career... Calling Pat Riley just an employee is like guys like MJ and lebron, just players....
Put it this way, look at what MJ did for the NIKE Brand.. he saved that Brand, I would have offered part of the company up to him for sure..
jimkcchief88
All Star
I like the effort Thibbs teams play with especially on the defensive end. Thibbs preaches "ball pressure." Thibbs negative is that he wears out his starters and plays too short a rotation. And Thibbs doesn't like rookie players, he only trusts vets. We could do a lot worse than Thibbs, but I still prefer Mark Jackson.
pat
Starter
100% on point. Why people still hope Dolan will do anything reasonable ist beyond me. Making yet another big change in the front office means doom for us, because there is a lack of continuity. Walsh could have build a team in the long run, Phil can. Layden probably couldn't but that was mainly because he was just a Dolan puppet.
pat
Starter
And again: Nothing will be perfect if Dolan keeps interfering. Forget about any foundation as soon as PJ were gone, continuity would be out of the window with him. Dolan only cared about super star players putting buds in seats. As long as MSG is sold out, there is no need to change anything. Don't let your antipathy for Phil cloud your judgement. He is not the problem. If he were thing would have looked much better the years before.
yep, and not to bash carmelo, but dolan forced carmelo on Dantoni who wanted a PG and not carmelo.. and this is after making him deal with marbury towards the tail end of his knick career... before that dolan allowed Isiah to stay aboard as he allowed marbury to fight larry brown in the media, the guy you paid 40 mil to come coach.. then you get walsh almost after Stern forced you to bring in someone who wasn't dolans puppet and you force walsh to pretty much trade for carmelo, and overpay, something walsh didn't want to do and someone dantoni didn't want.. this was doomed from the start and it has been going on now for well over a decade.
How he is still allowed to run this franchise is a JOKE!!!! I know he has other siblings, but daddy dolan left this once proud franchise in the hands of one of the dumbest men I have ever seen in my life!!!!! what a way to crap on the fans that pay top dollar to watch your product...
AS vin Diesel SAID..."DONE AND DONE" YOU hit the nail on the head, as long as people continue to shell out top dollar to come to the games, dolan doesn't care.. He doesn't like to be embarrassed so he will fire someone to make it seem like he actually cares and to shift blame off him.. but in the end, fans keep buying tickets, dolan continues to be dolan.. SMH
Report today that hiring Scotty Brooks will help us sign Durant this offseason. Another report today says firing Derek Fisher hurt our ability to sign Durant this offseason. Maybe PJ should just hire all of Durant's personal friends to coach the team. He could then hire all of his own personal friends to be their assistants.
RunningJumper
Super Moderator
If all Dolan cares about is stars for big money, it reminds me of Vince McMahon. Instead of building a good product, which does make a lot of money in the long run (the Knicks sell out games regardless of their team), Vince just relies on past stars, and that's one of the reasons why there's hasn't been a boom period since the early 2000s. If the Knicks built a championship contender, that'd make tons of money for Doley. Getting a team that has two or three stars and no supporting cast is never a safe way to build a championship unless those stars are LeBron and Wade who will attract good players to take a lot less.
These writers have a job to do and it's to write stories to have fans swim like a fish in a tank full of hot water. Everytime they write it's further confirmation no one of any significance is coming.
RunningJumper
Super Moderator
Pretty much. There was a rumor that Westbrook and Durant would both leave...and wind up on the same team, the Lakers.