Melo wouldn't be losing $65mil, it would just be that amount stretched over more years, lol. The Players' Association isn't going to let owners pay players for pennies on the dollar, they might just change the amount of years on the deal to make it more feasible for both sides, while also easing some of the tensions associated with the FA and losing players for owners....that's not my opinion...that's what unions do....you know....collectively represent all of the employees when it comes to negotiating deals with the employers.
Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
And it's also not my opinion that teams will want Melo to sign the extension before they trade for him, no one is going to want to trade players and picks and then possibly end up with nothing in one year. So if Melo refuses to sign the extension for a trade to certain teams...he's effectively vetoing the trade.
Unless, like I said, someone is willing to swing a deal without any certainty that he'll be there for the long haul (like what the Redskins did with McNabb, they wanted him to sign an extension before the trade, but they pulled the trigger anyway...he can still walk at the end of the year unless he signs an extension.) None of that is my opinion as a Knick fan.
And I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say "as long as 'this' drags on" because as far as I know there have been no official offers for Melo, so right now there is no reason for him to get ancy and jump to one team over another (especially if he already has his mind made up and he's waiting for things to get rolling.)
It's simple, very simple. If a trade happening is contingent on Melo signing the extension for the new team before they trade anything to Denver...then he has a lot of the power. To argue otherwise literally doesn't make any sense. Unless you know of some clause where Denver can put a gun to his head and make him sign the extension for the team that has the best pieces that they'd like to acquire in a trade; because as long as he has free will and he can say he's not signing the extension and he'll walk at the end of the year, all Denver can do is watch him walk or get what they can get or him.
None of this is my opinion, by the way. I've never once stated what I thought would be a fair trade for him. So the whole argument of "I don't care if you won't admit it and agree with my statements" is kind of moot.
No, this is about the fantasy that we will be able to trade Curry + Chandler + a 2014 pick and get Melo in return. That is not going to happen. It is going to take a lot more, because denver has more power than you think. It's simple.
Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
(Now addressing all): How bout this scenario: The CBA expires July 1 2011. Though there is a sense of urgency b/c the season will start Melo doesn't have to budge. The closer it is to October/November the worst it will be for Denver b/c no team wants to have a player on a team that is unhappy. That will just ruin team chemistry, fans will boo Melo every night and that will put the Nuggets in a light they rather no be in. Just negative attention to the situation. Melo just has to be willing to play only b/c he's under contract therefore he can't be fined, Nuggets may send him home, but that move would just look so bad. It will be the Lebron watch only through the NBA season and that would look so bad.
But giving up both Gallo and Randolph hurts. Giving up one makes sense but both? Then again a player like Melo rarely comes along with us read to take on said player.
I also agree w LJ that Denver has the larger palmslap w the looming CBA. Melo might be in between a rock and a hard place trying to get paid and attempting get to the team of his choice.
Another whiny ball player instead of forcing management to move guys like Jr smith or not sign guys like Harrington so they can surround him with talent he wants out Smh and we need this guy.
Melo is a scorer a big time scorer but nothing much after that, he is one of those guys that gets the ball isos and blacks out like he doesn't have team mates out of all the primer wing players he is the lowest in assist thats a signal right there of his ball hogging. Gallo is growing to be a homegrown stud he is a European poor man's Kevin Durant but he will avg more asst over his career. Why bring in melo and have an even greater log jam at Sf all these Melo threads are basically saying we don't believe in him even though he still is a young player.
WE are one elite Sg and double double center from being a contender if we keep our current roster minus Eddy Curry.
A lineup of say
iguoldala (horrible contract btw)
Hibbert(young defense presence)
Any day we have too much match-up problems for you guys. At SG we are stronger on offense and defense even rebounding ( didn't put azubuike because of reports saying next year b4 his is ready)At Sf your are offensicely stronger but on defense Gallo height advantage and post game (pretty weak but still he has a nice soft touch over smaller defenders)
We shouldn't be looking for whiny nba ball players we should make moves like the Bucks Thunder and Bulls so we can improve and compete with those guys
melo would only resign with the Nets, Clippers, or Knicks...with the Knicks being the best, Nets 2nd and Clips 3rd if they don't trade too much for Melo.
I still think Melo can just say, "make me a Knick or no team will trade with you" and he can be a Knick....get three or four teams involved
that might not be the best route... Trading our future for Melo would not be smart. It's not the end of the world without Melo, we have a good up and coming team that's for the most part very young and athletic! :)
Originally Posted by knicksin60
I'd love to see Melo as a Knick but the tax thing in NY might be scaring him away. Thats a lot of $$$ when you make his $$$
I find it funny that baseball analysts are saying that the Dodgers will let the White Sox straight up claim Manny and not look for any compensation because they don't want to try to work a trade and let. Manny. take. contol. of. the. situation. with. his. NTC. But when it comes to Melo being able to force teams to back out of a trade (or blocking/vetoing it like a NTC) by not signing the extension and not guaranteeing his services for more than one season...suddenly it's not a similar situation because random people proclaim it's not. According to people on here, he has no control, even though he can use the extension like a NTC and block trades...he's powerless. Surely he can't attempt to veto every single trade offered until the team he wants to go to makes an offer or he walks.
And while there's some uncertainty about the new CBA, people are acting like they've never heard of unions negotiating on the behalf of their members. The NBAPA isn't gonna let the owners take huge chunks of money out of the players' pockets. Hell they were fighting like hell to make sure that Washington couldn't walk away from Arenas' contract when he was suspended. But suddenly they're gonna give in and say "ok, cut salaries buy about $5mil?" Nah. The new max deal isn't gonna go down to $10mil, there will be a lockout before that happens.
The main issue with the new CBA will be contract length, not contract worth. And owners want more control over the situation, and not get stuck under lengthy expensive deals. And I'm sure they want more control over keeping their FA eligible stars. It gets expensive to have to sit back and wait while a fully guaranteed 5-6 year max deal runs out so you can make a move (that's why you obviously have salary dumping ...but even that can be costly if your building efforts don't pan out and you have a sub par team.) Players want to keep their high salaries and option years, owners want to keep star players around but also not get stuck with long bad deals for bad players (we know a thing or two about that.)
Owners are going to want to wrestle some control away from players: non-guaranteed contracts, less years on a max deal (if contracts remain guaranteed...which they in all likelyhood will) take away player options, lower annual increases, etc. The NBAPA will not let them take away guaranteed deals, and they'll negotiate everything else.
So the only threat to Melo with the new CBA is the uncertainty. But the max contract isn't gonna go from roughly $14-16mil in the first season, down to $9-10. That's when the union says "**** this, lockout." And if that's the case, it doesn't matter what deal Melo has because there won't be any basketball for at least a season.
Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
I agree Twolves is very unlikely and even laughable. But the wolves have a very nice core of young players with alot of potential. And with the addition of Rubio next year things could get very interesting. Ricky will be dawning a wolf uni.:agreed:
Igudola is the same player as Chandler.
I think people are misunderstanding what Melo is really about. And that he is clutch. Its Kobe, Melo, and Wade when it comes to clutch shoot. Remember the epic game last year with Nuggets vs Cavs. To me, that was the game of the year. [Only registered and activated users can see images. Click Here To Register...]
Melo can pass when he wants to. Jordan had that same criticism through his young career and didn't become the passer we know him to be until the 1991 Finals.
Kobe had that knock on him too. Now he's the man.
Gallo can hit a big shot but he is not as clutch as Melo.
It would be nice to have a player like Melo to get us out of any offensive dry spells we have. In D'antoni's system he would love to feed Amare.
C'mon seriously, even with a new CBA Melo will still be filthy rich. He's a top tier player and will get max dollars no matter what. Your making it seem like $65 mil will be reduced to $35 mil. It most likely won't be that rediculous.
Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
I hear what your saying about out proposed trade. It's very lopsided and not worth much to Denver to replace a player like Melo. In fact, if that went down it would be as bad as the Gasol to LA trade.
Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
I do disagree with you thinking DEN has more power than we think. The only power they have is either A)not trade him, or B)trade him to a team not on his list (this is conditional since no team wants to give up assets for a 1 year rental).
Whoever DEN feels is a good trade partner doesn't matter because the other team will want an assurance that Melo signs the extension before the trade is executed. Advantage = Melo
All this talk about Melo losing millions in the new CBA is exaggerated. He'll probably get a little less per year but he'll still be one of the highest paid.
DEN can not afford to be stubborn and let this linger throughout the season. Losing Melo sets them back a couple years, so losing him for nothing would be even worse. No matter how slighted they feel about his demands, they have to decide whether they want to gamble on losing him or at least getting something back in return. They are never going to get equal talent back anyway.
Whoever thinks MIN is a possibility needs to get their head examined. Why the fack would he go from DEN to MIN???????? Defeats the whole purpose.
Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
I never said Melo didn't have any power. He has a lot. But you are saying Denver has zero power and MUST do whatever Melo demands. That is simply not true. All I've been saying is that Denver has more power than you think.
You guys are just telling yourself this because you hope Melo will come here without us giving up much. Denver is not going to trade Melo for Chandler, Curry and a 2014 pick. Sorry, it just isn't going to heapen. Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better, but it's not happening.
If Melo doesn't care about the new CBA, then why is he so adamant about being traded now and signing an extension? He's a free agent next year and could go anywhere he wants. If the new CBA wasn't important, he would just wait until free agency.
Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
Everybody knows he will be filthy rich. But don't act like a few million doesn't matter. Over the life of a 5 year contract he could stand to lose around $15-20 mil. I'm sure he cares.
If you guys want to tell yourselves that we will get Melo for practically nothing, go ahead. I'm just trying to bring a little reality into the discussion. Melo will cost us Gallo + Randolph. And that is not worth it to me.
I'm going to need someone to find the post where I say it'll take Curry, Chandler, and our 2014 pick. You keep hanging your hat on the "it's going to take a lot more than that, so keep believing that if you want to" when you're putting words in my mouth. You don't know what I believe it will take so I don't know why you keep going back to that. All I'm saying is he can force his way here, and by the very essence of him forcing Denver's hand (if they're adamant in trading him) then the leverage goes to the team they're trading him too. If you're playing poker and you have a good read on your opponent and you're sure you have the better hand, they're at your mercy. If Denver doesn't want to accept whatever deal we throw at them, and Melo is willing to walk...well they get nothing...which they already said they didn't want happening.
And I think Melo's situation with the extension has every bit to do with the same reason why some FAs will prefer a sign-and-trade over signing a fresh deal. Their Bird Rights. You know that a player can get more money from the team that holds their Bird Rights. Those rights transfer in a trade (only if they're not Early Bird Rights, which don't transfer in trade.) So no matter what happens, Melo can get an extension from whatever team he's traded to worth more than an unrestricted FA max deal....this can all happen this season before the CBA. BUT if he's traded to...lets say the T'Wolves...does he want that extension on a team that's years away from contending? Probably Not. How does he control where his destination is? By not signing any sort of extension with anyone and forcing Denver (who he knows won't let him walk for nothing) to trade him to a team he wants to go to (not necessarily the Knicks, but still his choice.)
Denver showed their cards to early by letting the world know that they can't afford to let him walk for nothing, now it's a game of chicken to see who blinks first. The 26 year-old Multi-millionaire who's guaranteed to get another max-type contract, or the organization that doesn't want to lose him with no compensation?
Melo can sign his extension no matter where he's traded, he has Bird Rights and those transfer in a trade from the team he established them with, to the second team. But he can use the threat of not signing the extension and walk for a max deal next year so scare teams away from trading young talent and picks in 2010 for Melo, then losing Melo in 2011 as a FA, thusly being out of young talent, picks, and Melo.
The extension doesn't have to be signed with Denver. But another team will want that to ensure their security. Therefore, he has more power than Denver does. If Denver want to get Lopez and T-Will, and picks, Melo has to say "yes, I'll sign." If Denver wants to get Tyreke, Omri, and picks, Melo has to say "yes, I'll sign" If Denver wants to get Kaman, Gordon, and picks, Melo has to say "yes, I'll sign." If Denver wants to get whoever from the Knicks, Melo has to say "yes, I'll sign." If any one of those teams want to trade for Melo without him signing anything and risk him walking at the end of the season after they already gave up players and picks...well they took a gamble (Washington Redskins w/ McNabb.)
If Melo refuses to sign the extension with 3 or 4 teams before Denver gets to the Knicks, Donnie will say "we know that you can't trade him anywhere else because he's blocking the trade, so listen...this is what we're willing to offer you..." Denver can accept it or decline it. If they decline at this point, it's obvious Melo is trying to force his way to the team and he's going to leave at the end of the year anyway.
There is no scenario where we're giving up both Gallo and Randolph to get him, because when the Nuggets start negotiating with us it's because they're being forced to, because they have no other recourse; Melo has blocked every previous trade and he's forcing their hand. How you don't understand this is mind boggling. We won't be part of the bidding war because Denver didn't send us an invite, but Melo can block all the other trades to force Denver to call us up and listen to our offer.
It's like listing an item on eBay for 7 days...it doesn't sell, and now you either say "screw it" and you don't re-list it, or you come down on the price. When people know you can't get rid of something, they force you to take less than your asking price or you don't sell the item at all.
Simple negotiating strategy and I know Donnie knows all about it, you don't make it to where he is if you don't. I'm sure he's been on both ends of it during his long career.
Nothing more, nothing less. There's no guarantees of anything, but all you can do is put yourself in a position to have an upper hand over your opponent, and Melo can single handedly give that upper hand to any team he chooses. We won't know what his mindset is until official trade offers come in and he either green lights a trade or starts blocking them.