What is the problem , Cast your votes.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM ?

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    29
  • Poll closed .
DontForgetDerekHarper

DontForgetDerekHarper

Starter
Alot of arguments going on as of late, and being that we all want the same thing

a team that plays ?

does ?

is ?

debates give no real answer

so lets vote and see what the general consensus is.
 
nuckles2k2

nuckles2k2

Superstar
Defense is all awareness, positioning, effort, and teamwork. None of that has to do with talent, unless you're talking about the ability to focus and maybe some of the players have ADD? I dunno...

You don't need superior individual defenders to play excellent team defense. You need a coach who's going to make sure everyone is aware of their assignment/goal on the defensive end, make sure they're in the right places more often than not, not slacking off and being lazy, and have everyone working as a cohesive unit. A defensive center would help, but it's not the answer if the environment isn't up to par. According the the results on the court, MDA either doesn't teach, preach, and demand solid defense from his teams....or they just don't listen to him. Either way, that's an ineffective coach in terms of championship basketball. If the Spurs, Lakers, Celtics, Mavs, and Bulls, all with their current rosters, played defense the way the Knicks do, they'd have weak records as well. So I don't see how it could be our bench, "the trade," chemistry, or players lacking physical ability to play good D...cause Carlos Delfino, Larry Sanders, and John Salmons are such amazing lock down defenders...right? No? Well shit....

Actually, when you examine the Bucks roster, the only legit "lock down" defender they have is Mbah a Moute, everyone else is average, below average, or terrible in man-to-man D. But yet they have the 5th best defense in the league and their coach is Scott Skiles...who is notorious for demanding that his teams play D...so...coincidence? We have average man-to-man defenders...we don't have the teamwork and schemes. When players aren't playing "together" and executing the schemes, who's job is it to hold everyone accountable and right the ship? And if he's incapable of doing that, what happens to him?

I won't even touch the offensive end.
 
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p0nder

p0nder

Starter
The real problem? Our players don't bring it against shitty teams.

Put us up against the bulls or the spurs or any other top tier team and we will fight like dogs. Put us up against Cleveland and we mail it in.
 
DontForgetDerekHarper

DontForgetDerekHarper

Starter
nuckles2k2 said:
Defense is all awareness, positioning, effort, and teamwork. None of that has to do with talent, unless you're talking about the ability to focus and maybe some of the players have ADD? I dunno...

You don't need superior individual defenders to play excellent team defense. You need a coach who's going to make sure everyone is aware of their assignment/goal on the defensive end, make sure they're in the right places more often than not, not slacking off and being lazy, and have everyone working as a cohesive unit. A defensive center would help, but it's not the answer if the environment isn't up to par. According the the results on the court, MDA either doesn't teach, preach, and demand solid defense from his teams....or they just don't listen to him. Either way, that's an ineffective coach in terms of championship basketball. If the Spurs, Lakers, Celtics, Mavs, and Bulls, all with their current rosters, played defense the way the Knicks do, they'd have weak records as well. So I don't see how it could be our bench, "the trade," chemistry, or players lacking physical ability to play good D...cause Carlos Delfino, Larry Sanders, and John Salmons are such amazing lock down defenders...right? No? Well shit....

Actually, when you examine the Bucks roster, the only legit "lock down" defender they have is Mbah a Moute, everyone else is average, below average, or terrible in man-to-man D. But yet they have the 5th best defense in the league and their coach is Scott Skiles...who is notorious for demanding that his teams play D...so...coincidence? We have average man-to-man defenders...we don't have the teamwork and schemes. When players aren't playing "together" and executing the schemes, who's job is it to hold everyone accountable and right the ship? And if he's incapable of doing that, what happens to him?

I won't even touch the offensive end.
Click to expand...


Well if you have seen my name you know i delve into all threads equally, and read everything every one has to say before make a response.

What I meant was I have noticed in some arguments people say "we are a weak defensive team" which I feel suscribes to the idea that these players are incapable of playing good defense; which some would find to be wrong, or some would agree. so that 4th option was pertaining to that idea, that our personel is unable to play defense despite the teachings and preparedness of the coaching staff relating to defensive prowess.
 
p0nder

p0nder

Starter
who gives a **** about indy or the bucks? seriously. these teams suck ass and i'm pretty sure our players don't give a shit about beating them. That is the problem. STAT see's it, he wants to get better seeding in the playoffs, But the rest of the team seems to be happy to just coast into the playoffs in 6th or 7th or 8th before they pull up their socks, when it will be too late.
 
nuckles2k2

nuckles2k2

Superstar
I gotcha DFDH, my post wasn't directed at you or at the poll, it was pretty much for anyone who keeps saying that we don't have good defensive players on our team while ignoring the fact that the 5th best defense in the league has an oft-injured center and one legit lock-down defender. But they're somehow getting it done, their offense is what betrays them.

And for P0nder,

Statements like those are what allows MDA to say things like "we're working on it" and when a reporter asks "well...what is 'it'? what are you working on?" and MDA gets that ":? I wasn't expecting that question" look on his face and says that winning and playing well is the "it" he's referring to and the fans eat that shit up. I agree that we kind of play down to the competition sometimes, but 1-7 against teams under .500 is because of bad habits. Don't tell me that Amar'e wants a better seed and everyone else is cruising, because he's the main culprit on the defensive end. Larry Sanders strolled right around him and received a pass under the rim before STAT knew he was involved in the play. I. DON'T. GIVE. A. ****. What STAT may or may not want when it comes to seeding if that's the best defensive effort he can muster when the team just had a 32-9 first quarter.

Like I said in another thread, folks...you gotta stop thinking about wins and loses by themselves and also look at how we're winning and losing. Saying "oh well....they just didn't care...that's why they lost" is bullshit. We lost to the Bucks because our defensive rotations were non-existent in stretches, I can't count how many times Delfino and Salmons got open because their man didn't rotate over when we sent an extra defender into the paint. You mean to tell me that the dudes responsible for those assignments, and showing those bad habits are saying ":shrug:ehhhh it's the Bucks..." or is that how you feel?

I guess the game tonight will shed some light on this theory that the Knicks will only play playoff-worthy basketball against a team they could possibly face in the playoffs, as opposed to just being a wildly incosistent, defensively inefficient, bunch of individuals who happen to be wearing the same colors.
 
S

Sprewell-Houston

Starter
I think you missed 1 point: James Dolan

IMHO he's the reason we can't get back up. No patience to rebuild. Hasty decisions, lots of trades, but no solid rebuilding.

It took the Bulls 12 years to be back at the top since Jordan left! But now they are in a very good position, today and for the next 5-6 years.

We should have walked the same road in 2002 when it became obvious that we won't make the playoffs for the first time in ages, Sprewell wanted to get traded, Houston's knees started to become a problem and McDyess had blown his knee cap. That would have been the perfect time to rebuild after the Ewing era. Instead we put our future in the trash with that Marbury trade and we keep doing the same over and over again....no matter who's coaching, no matter who's running the front office....James Dolan is the problem!
 
hometheaterguy

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
p0nder said:
who gives a **** about indy or the bucks? seriously. these teams suck ass and i'm pretty sure our players don't give a shit about beating them. That is the problem. STAT see's it, he wants to get better seeding in the playoffs, But the rest of the team seems to be happy to just coast into the playoffs in 6th or 7th or 8th before they pull up their socks, when it will be too late.
Click to expand...

They should care since beating them could help us to get better positioning in the playoffs and even home court for the first round!
 
p0nder

p0nder

Starter
nuckles2k2 said:
I gotcha DFDH, my post wasn't directed at you or at the poll, it was pretty much for anyone who keeps saying that we don't have good defensive players on our team while ignoring the fact that the 5th best defense in the league has an oft-injured center and one legit lock-down defender. But they're somehow getting it done, their offense is what betrays them.

And for P0nder,

Statements like those are what allows MDA to say things like "we're working on it" and when a reporter asks "well...what is 'it'? what are you working on?" and MDA gets that ":? I wasn't expecting that question" look on his face and says that winning and playing well is the "it" he's referring to and the fans eat that shit up. I agree that we kind of play down to the competition sometimes, but 1-7 against teams under .500 is because of bad habits. Don't tell me that Amar'e wants a better seed and everyone else is cruising, because he's the main culprit on the defensive end. Larry Sanders strolled right around him and received a pass under the rim before STAT knew he was involved in the play. I. DON'T. GIVE. A. ****. What STAT may or may not want when it comes to seeding if that's the best defensive effort he can muster when the team just had a 32-9 first quarter.

Like I said in another thread, folks...you gotta stop thinking about wins and loses by themselves and also look at how we're winning and losing. Saying "oh well....they just didn't care...that's why they lost" is bullshit. We lost to the Bucks because our defensive rotations were non-existent in stretches, I can't count how many times Delfino and Salmons got open because their man didn't rotate over when we sent an extra defender into the paint. You mean to tell me that the dudes responsible for those assignments, and showing those bad habits are saying ":shrug:ehhhh it's the Bucks..." or is that how you feel?

I guess the game tonight will shed some light on this theory that the Knicks will only play playoff-worthy basketball against a team they could possibly face in the playoffs, as opposed to just being a wildly incosistent, defensively inefficient, bunch of individuals who happen to be wearing the same colors.
Click to expand...


Yep. Watch the knicks tonight. They will come out ****ing FUMING with energy, dropping dunks, getting in the lane, getting in the faces of superstar players, etc. Look for STAT to get like 4 blocks and 9 rebounds. Watch 'em play against ORL and keep it close, fight on the defensive end, swarm howard, etc.

Then watch them ****ing shit the goddamn bed against the bucks on the 25th.

I dunno if you actually play any ball in a league or for school or whatever, but there's a big difference in performance in a scrimmage game against people you don't know and don't care about vs. playing against your school rivals or a team you need to beat to get in the playoffs or w/e.

And yeah, we're working on it. the loss to Detroit was inexcusable, so were the losses to cleveland and indy. But there are some growing pains to be expected. Remember at the beginning of the year how we went like 3-9 to start and had all kinds of problems in the pick'n'roll game? It's a similar situation, except now the stakes are higher, the time frames are shorter and we are staring the playoffs in the face.
 
YungMelo15

YungMelo15

Benchwarmer
p0nder said:
Yep. Watch the knicks tonight. They will come out ****ing FUMING with energy, dropping dunks, getting in the lane, getting in the faces of superstar players, etc. Look for STAT to get like 4 blocks and 9 rebounds. Watch 'em play against ORL and keep it close, fight on the defensive end, swarm howard, etc.

Then watch them ****ing shit the goddamn bed against the bucks on the 25th.

I dunno if you actually play any ball in a league or for school or whatever, but there's a big difference in performance in a scrimmage game against people you don't know and don't care about vs. playing against your school rivals or a team you need to beat to get in the playoffs or w/e.

And yeah, we're working on it. the loss to Detroit was inexcusable, so were the losses to cleveland and indy. But there are some growing pains to be expected. Remember at the beginning of the year how we went like 3-9 to start and had all kinds of problems in the pick'n'roll game? It's a similar situation, except now the stakes are higher, the time frames are shorter and we are staring the playoffs in the face.
Click to expand...

I agree with you for the most part. I also agree with nuckles2k2 as far a sbad habbits. I cant lie, alot of the "shtty" teams bring they're A Game against teams like us whil we play down to they're skill level. We end up losing. Those are bad habbits.

We should be blowing teams out, sayin we play down to comp is an excuse tho. These guys get paid the big bucks, there should be no reason for them to take plays and games off. Thats straight BS.

I really think we need this win over Boston tonight to change everything around. After a losing streak like were having, I think we need a confidence boost to show we sill got it. Thats should get guys on track. Keyword SHOULD!
 
PaPZ187

PaPZ187

Benchwarmer
I believe it is mainly coaching that we are not a good defensive team, but we also need some presence inside as well to be a real effective defensive team as well.

My problem is this, I hear that we need to get bigger inside, and I totally agree, but as long as D'Antoni is here it wont be a fit as he prefers smaller, quicker bigs to run up and down the court like a Jeffries. He rather play Shawne Williams at the 5 than giving some minutes to a Sheldon Williams, and I understand that is because of the style of ball he likes to play, but you are never going to be a very good to great Defense with this mentality. Just my opinion.
 
DontForgetDerekHarper

DontForgetDerekHarper

Starter
[They idea

and this falls on the COACH imo, is that you have to build healthy habits against all teams, it starts with the lower echilon teams, and then is revised against the top tier ones.

we have to develop strong winning habits, or we will never recover.

and it starts with the mustasche
 
KnicksFanFromQueens1985

KnicksFanFromQueens1985

Banned
I agree. MDA deserves a lot of blame for our lack of focus on D; but I also know enough to know that the players deserve blame. It's a team effort.

As crazy as this sounds, we have improved on D' since the trade. I'm not sure if the #'s show it, but I've seen improvements (I believe we all have). Defense is more than just "stats". I've also seen sad let downs on D.

We played great D' against MIA. We played 3 strong Q's of D' vs ORL before getting burnt during the 4th. We gave up 30+ during the 1st against MIL but then played strong on D' after. Have held teams under 90 & 100 since the trade etc, etc but we must become consistent for 48 mins.

I grew up around top 5-10 D's under Riley where we failed to win a ring & I'm sorry, but this roster is not top a 10 quality D'; no matter the coach.

JJ ISN'T Ewing. Fields is NO Starks, Amare isn't Oakley, Turiaf is NO Mason, Shelden isn't Herb, Melo is far from a C.Smith type of defensive Foward. An aging Billups on D? No thnx.

Not being consistent doesn't help..
 
la2ny

la2ny

Starter
It's a reflection of the Coach, thats it. They just don't focus on the crap teams itsbecause of STACHE. Now I'll say this, winning against those crappy ould have made us feel better yes, but we'd still have to play Miami in the 1st round w/o HCA.

Another thing. has anyone seen "Fever Pitch"? Jimmy Fallon was a crazed Red Sox fan which kept him from keeping a gf or w/e anyways it was a scene where he and his friends were at a bar and they saw some of the Red Sox players after a loss in the Championship Series against the Yanks and they were laughing an drinking. Jimmy and his freinds were mad at them because they didn't understand why they had moved on and weren't dwelling on the loss, well thats what you have to do as a pro. Fans don't because we have to live w/ it to the next game so we forget these men have lives they are humans.
The argument people make when they say "they get paid the big bucks to play well or to beat crappy teams" is a bunch of crap. Sometimes you dont have it, sometimes you have a bad day, and sometimes nothings goes right. Every person in the NBA is a very good player. We can say Jared Jeffries sucks an Balkman does, but I bet you couldn't get past their defense. ANY TEAM CAN WIN ON ANY GIVEN NIGHT MOVE ON FROM THE LOSSES AN FOCUS ON THE NEXT GAME. That is all.
 
K

Kiyaman

Legend
Since the departure of defensive headcoach JVG the Knicks organization
have had the poorest coaching-staff in the NBA.
Everyone keep blaming the losing-decade Knicks on the players when
management and coaching has been ridiculous throughout 2 decades
(the departure of Pat Riley offense/defense system)...

Don Nelson/ Isiah Thomas/ and Dantoni has put a new name to the
worst headcoaches in a Big Marketing City New York...
:agreed:
 
nyk_nyk

nyk_nyk

All Star
The bottom line is we have the personnel to be a very good team. We should be playing much better than we are now but there are certain fundamental aspects of the game you must employ EVERY game. We don't do too much of the little things to win like boxing out, rotating properly and making the extra pass when needed. When this team is hitting shots at a high clip then everyone is happy BUT its fools gold. FOOLS GOLD! Those games where we shoot the lights out sends a false message to these guys like that's the way to win. When we lose and give up tons of points then its back to blaming it on the defense. Guess what Dantoni? Its always the defense even when your hitting shots.
　
The thing that separates good from great is the ability to have your defense keep you in the game during off nights. With Dantoni, that will never be consistent enough to be successful. I have no faith in the guy FOR THIS TEAM.
 
M

miked1958

Rotation player
this is an easy one

nyk_nyk said:
The bottom line is we have the personnel to be a very good team. We should be playing much better than we are now but there are certain fundamental aspects of the game you must employ EVERY game. We don't do too much of the little things to win like boxing out, rotating properly and making the extra pass when needed. When this team is hitting shots at a high clip then everyone is happy BUT its fools gold. FOOLS GOLD! Those games where we shoot the lights out sends a false message to these guys like that's the way to win. When we lose and give up tons of points then its back to blaming it on the defense. Guess what Dantoni? Its always the defense even when your hitting shots.
　
The thing that separates good from great is the ability to have your defense keep you in the game during off nights. With Dantoni, that will never be consistent enough to be successful. I have no faith in the guy FOR THIS TEAM.
Click to expand...
My vote is Defense. That is the reason. Plain and simple. Weather its the Coaches can teach D or the players dont have the ability to play D, I dont know. We didnt play any prior to the Trade and we have not played any consistent Defense after the Trade. The way it stands we will finish 40-42, 41-41 or 42-40 at best. That will be good for 7th or as low as 8th depending on how hot the pacers can get in last 13games. Then if nothing changes defense wise in playoffs we lose in 4, maybe 5 if we are lucky no matter who we play. Period end of story. Forget all the critical matchup and other threads like it. We dont need to worry about any of it because the bottom line is the knicks our capable of scoring 120 and losing. Until that changes you dont need to worry about winning to many more games this season.
 
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M

MusketeerX

Rotation player
nyk_nyk said:
The bottom line is we have the personnel to be a very good team. We should be playing much better than we are now but there are certain fundamental aspects of the game you must employ EVERY game. We don't do too much of the little things to win like boxing out, rotating properly and making the extra pass when needed. When this team is hitting shots at a high clip then everyone is happy BUT its fools gold. FOOLS GOLD! Those games where we shoot the lights out sends a false message to these guys like that's the way to win. When we lose and give up tons of points then its back to blaming it on the defense. Guess what Dantoni? Its always the defense even when your hitting shots.
　
The thing that separates good from great is the ability to have your defense keep you in the game during off nights. With Dantoni, that will never be consistent enough to be successful. I have no faith in the guy FOR THIS TEAM.
Click to expand...

Agreed. May I add that our problems are well beyond just one factor.

  • We have lack of depth
  • Our current team lacks chemistry
  • We have no big man, besides that of Amar'e
  • Our coach is struggling to find an offensive fluidity that can be consistent without current players
  • Our two stars lack defensive fundamentals
  • Our coach is not working a proper team defensive strategy to make up for our stars defensive fundamentals
The good note is that our players are capable. Melo and Amar'e, physically, at least, should be very good defenders. They are quick, strong, and long. All good makings of a good defender.

We have the ability to score. No question.

If we enacted a good team defensive strategy, hired a defensive coach that will actually discipline our players, and, in turn, also teach some fundamental defense to Amar'e and Melo, we wouldn't be so bad off.
 
M

miked1958

Rotation player
When u see the Stat lines that Amare, Melo and Billups (and sometimes TD) are putting up night in and night out, usually all over 20 to 30 points you think without looking at the score, automatic win. I thought that a few times when i read ESPNs Ticker that comes across the bottom of the screen. When turned TV on and missed the score but saw the stat lines i figured they had won. When it came back around again and I saw the score, I saw i was mistaken. This has happened at least 4 or 5times since the Trade, maybe more. I dont get to listen or watch due to my job and with those stat lines we should be winning every game. Simple fact is we dont play d. these guys would have to score 40 each for us to win a game with the weak bench we usually have. SOmetimes they light it up from 3, but you cant live and die with the 3. u must play D. we dont. simple
 
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