Bad loss....but huge steps have been taken forward

Also maybe this should be in its own thread. posted it in another nonrelated thread as well. however when i make a new one i dont seem to get any response, like the one i made today about Espn First Takes Skip Bayless talking about the Knicks. anyway.....


Maybe this Knicks team can take some pointers from the New York Rangers on how to close out a season. With them in the 7th spot of 8, instead of folding like the Knicks they are on a Season best 5game winning streak (best since they had 7in a row in 09) and now are only 3pts behind 6th place Canadians. GoalKeeper Henrik recorded his NHL Best 10th Shutout tonight in a 1-0 win. They missed the playoffs by 1point last season finishing in 9th position. They lost in a shootout to Philly on the seasons last day. They have used that as focal point and made a pact that it would not happen to them again this season. Did anyone see when they played #1 philly on Sunday. They shut them out 5 zip. The Knicks need to play with this kind of fire going down the stretch. Now I know the Rangers (like the Knicks) have not won any titles in ages either, but they seem to be on the right track at least.
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Lets hope if we somehow make the playoffs that by a miracle we play Atlanta who sucks all of a sudden as well

Red said:

Just owned myself...

Ronfarina...

yo did you figure out no one respects a d*ck rider like yourself? Huh?

With that language, and your above co-signing (as usual), along with your inability to do nothing but praise

you are EXACTLY the type of person I would fire. Not even worth some advice to increase your lame a$$ swagger.

YOU'RE FIRED!

Click to expand...

I feel the same way you feel after every horrible loss..lol
It is sickening. been a knick fan since 79. And yeah we do make alot of excuses. I think we've been making them since the mid 70's. Some of us are fed up.

You see every commentator every analyst Saying, well Thankfully, lakers didn't trade for melo, all this other crap.

We are getting shown once again on national t.v against orlando, for another possible embarassment .
I really wish we weren't getting so much exposure, while we're playing so badly. It really is humilating . Now we will have people commentating once again on how this is not going to work, We can't play defense..I mean the same s**t over and over and over..It's so upsetting it really is.:barf:

petescud said:

Lets hope if we somehow make the playoffs that by a miracle we play Atlanta who sucks all of a sudden as well

Click to expand...

LMAO ! Yeah what the heck is wrong with them all of a sudden.
This is what's upsetting. The fact that the hawks are playing badly, And we are too.

Could've been right behind them for the 5th spot..What a waste, ugh

You know, despite the fact that I'm not a huge fan of D'Antoni's style and all that, I'd have no problem if he could consistently coach the team to the type of game that beat the Heat 91-86.

The problem is after we have a game like that where everything that could've gone well for us went well we turn out a performance and it doesn't seem as if the Coach is holding everybody else accountable for it. Losing to the Pacers twice is inexcusable, losing to the Bucks is inexcusable, losing to the Pistons is pathetic and damnit I know the Celtics are good but we should have held onto that lead.

Red said:

You would be.

You could never f*ck with me, not in cyberspace or otherwise. Until I see a TOP defensive team WHICH IS WHAT THE MEASURE OF THIS LIMITED EUROBALL SCHMUCK should be, whatever your point is- is futile.

I tried your weak approach, I was patient, I chilled and waited,

But guess what? That just ain't me. I demand better and am tired of hearing from mediocre viewpoints.

Say something to illustrate your knowledge of basketball, or shut the f*ck up. We know your full of support, show us YOUR bbiq.

Click to expand...

Thx for the laugh before i go to bed son.

I could never **** with you? Not in cyberspace or otherwise? What, you wanna meet up and arm wrestle, have a thumb war?
:boohoo:

This is your swan song.

Your emotions leak greater than the collective audience of The View these days re MDA.

The reason you don't have any *actual* concrete expectations and legitimate goals anymore...is MDA will likely smack the shit out of them like he has before.

Fyi, running around like a chicken (buckbuck buckcock) w it's head cut off...and talking like you're trying gain rep on Rikers Isle, doesn't constitute bball knowledge, or the framework of discussion. Which u don't actually want...that'd interfere w u parading around like king kong. Srry to he ur rain.

I, and many others...kb, rono, trillion etc...have dropped more insight and hardcore bball instincts and perspective on MDA than you drop loads to porn after getting riled up in these threads.

This puzzle has already been solved. Not by you. You got checkmated.

Like kblack politely alluded to, u expect me to actually rehash a debate you already lost, and hold ur hand thru it like a professor to a pre-K....while you regurgitate emo thoughts and front like ur tough?

Child plz.

You're tripping on ur own umbilical cord in this MDA "debate".

iSaYughh said:

Thx for the laugh before i go to bed son.

I could never **** with you? Not in cyberspace or otherwise? What, you wanna meet up and arm wrestle, have a thumb war?
:boohoo:

This is your swan song.

Your emotions leak greater than the collective audience of The View these days re MDA.

The reason you don't have any *actual* concrete expectations and legitimate goals anymore...is MDA will likely smack the shit out of them like he has before.

Fyi, running around like a chicken (buckbuck buckcock) w it's head cut off...and talking like you're trying gain rep on Rikers Isle, doesn't constitute bball knowledge, or the framework of discussion. Which u don't actually want...that'd interfere w u parading around like king kong. Srry to he ur rain.

I, and many others...kb, rono, trillion etc...have dropped more insight and hardcore bball instincts and perspective on MDA than you drop loads to porn after getting riled up in these threads.

This puzzle has already been solved. Not by you. You got checkmated.

Like kblack politely alluded to, u expect me to actually rehash a debate you already lost, and hold ur hand thru it like a professor to a pre-K....while you regurgitate emo thoughts and front like ur tough?

Child plz.

You're tripping on ur own umbilical cord in this MDA "debate".

Click to expand...

Thanks for your contribution.

That's the best you can do?

And about that Basketball IQ...

We're waiting......

Blumatic said:

Wow ok. The cursing. We got a different ways of viewing things then. Then you insult me.

Really? How old are you? Im having a grown man conversation. Im not the one sounding like a kid. I dont write in caps dude.

I know MDA has his faults. But I know we not winning a championship with this team this year so Im not sweating it. Im not married to him. I know what I see out there. And there are so many interpretation of what happened. And all of us could be right. But I can respect your opinion. And I do. Its a shame you took this route with this unnecessary language.

Dont even try to write that you hurt my feelings and write anything else of the like cuz I know thats your next move. Two Words.....Man Up.

Click to expand...

Huh?

Listen, you want to have a "grown man" conversation,
But don't kno the difference between an excuse and a reason. Figure that out 1st.

And yeah we don't share the same point of view, who cares?

You stick with your sh*t, and I'll stick with mine. You don't need me to insult you to look bad. Saying what you sound like or forming an anology = insulting you

Then so be it. But then again you're a grown man right?

Smh...
I don't care one bit about anything other than bringing in a competent Defensive Strategist when it concerns the Knicks.

Excuse coach all you want. I'm done. Defense wins and we've been losing, do the math.

Red said:

Huh?

Listen, you want to have a "grown man" conversation,
But don't kno the difference between an excuse and a reason. Figure that out 1st.

And yeah we don't share the same point of view, who cares?

You stick with your sh*t, and I'll stick with mine. You don't need me to insult you to look bad. Saying what you sound like or forming an anology = insulting you

Then so be it. But then again you're a grown man right?

Smh...
I don't care one bit about anything other than bringing in a competent Defensive Strategist when it concerns the Knicks.

Excuse coach all you want. I'm done. Defense wins and we've been losing, do the math.

Click to expand...

Thats where I'm with you. Dantoni offense is fine we score. Defense win chips. Offense wins games. But you need to score more than the opponent in a championship game.

D'antoni should get one more year and possibly a one year extension only on the mandatory condition that he hire a defensive coordinator.

The Celtics sucked before KG. Then when he came in did Doc Rivers rest sit on his ass. Hell no. He went out and got Tom Thidedeou (or whatever) as his defensive guru. 2 NBA Finals and Chip later.

Like I said Im not married to him but there I things I like in his system. But he needs a defensive guru. If he refuses.....................FIRE D'ANTONI!!!!!!

This year......He has to try his best.

Blumatic said:

Thats where I'm with you. Dantoni offense is fine we score. Defense win chips. Offense wins games. But you need to score more than the opponent in a championship game.

D'antoni should get one more year and possibly a one year extension only on the mandatory condition that he hire a defensive coordinator.

The Celtics sucked before KG. Then when he came in did Doc Rivers rest sit on his ass. Hell no. He went out and got Tom Thidedeou (or whatever) as his defensive guru. 2 NBA Finals and Chip later.

Like I said Im not married to him but there I things I like in his system. But he needs a defensive guru. If he refuses.....................FIRE D'ANTONI!!!!!!

This year......He has to try his best.

Click to expand...

Rivers was considered not a good NBA coach before he got the guys to make his team good...some Celtics fans don't consider him good now:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080514

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/061115

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060112

KBlack25 said:

Rivers was considered not a good NBA coach before he got the guys to make his team good...some Celtics fans don't consider him good now:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080514

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/061115

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060112

Click to expand...

Well I can't comment on your sweeping assertion of how "fans" feel, b/c I'm not a fan of BOS or ORL

And if his is your way of justifying poor defense considering MDA's pay, its weak at best.

Once you learn to evaluate a coaches skills "INDEPENDENT" of the players then we can talk about who's good and who's not.

Dealing with an environment like NYC is a sought after trait for successful coaches here... which if a coach can do this, he is more likly on our radar, does this have anything to do with rosters? No

Showing an improvement in overall defense is another valid indicator for probable success, and is attributed to coaching ability (just as you and others claim MDA can and has done offense wise). This weak point (regardless of the names on the roster) can and should be extrapolated to draw conclusions of probable success rates.

After an up close look, MDA has failed to demonstrate this sought after ability.

We have decided to move on. Thus goes business. Were not running a clinic to learn to coach, we're a business about results.

Did Mike completely fail. Obviously not, there were some positives namely we got Melo and raised ticket prices, put us back on the map.

To conclude things will be any different than what years of past experience has shown is stubborness, and to believe an asstant will be welcomed by him is totally ignorant of the past. He declined!

Red said:

Well I can't comment on your sweeping assertion of how "fans" feel, b/c I'm not a fan of BOS or ORL

And if his is your way of justifying poor defense considering MDA's pay, its weak at best.

Once you learn to evaluate a coaches skills "INDEPENDENT" of the players then we can talk about who's good and who's not.

Dealing with an environment like NYC is a sought after trait for successful coaches here... which if a coach can do this, he is more likly on our radar, does this have anything to do with rosters? No

Showing an improvement in overall defense is another valid indicator for probable success, and is attributed to coaching ability (just as you and others claim MDA can and has done offense wise). This weak point (regardless of the names on the roster) can and should be extrapolated to draw conclusions of probable success rates.

After an up close look, MDA has failed to demonstrate this sought after ability.

We have decided to move on. Thus goes business. Were not running a clinic to learn to coach, we're a business about results.

Did Mike completely fail. Obviously not, there were some positives namely we got Melo and raised ticket prices, put us back on the map.

To conclude things will be any different than what years of past experience has shown is stubborness, and to believe an asstant will be welcomed by him is totally ignorant of the past. He declined!

Click to expand...

I didn't mention MDA at all in my post.

I only bring this up b/c Doc Rivers consistently on this board is hailed as being some sort of genius, when before the trades went down he was considered a below average coach, at best (even when he "took" his team to the NBA Finals). I'm sick of seeing people praise this guy when not two years ago the hatred for him looked a lot like the MDA hatred.

I can evaluate Rivers independent of players...

When he had bad players, he was a shitty coach.
When he had good players, he won a title (and is now hailed as some sort of genius).

Coincidence?

Red said:

Thanks for your contribution.

That's the best you can do?

And about that Basketball IQ...

We're waiting......

Click to expand...

We're waiting for you to stop acting like an emo tard fronting like ur something tough.. Sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's lame (since ur a one note instrument recently, it's more latter).

I've shredded ur assertions plenty in past w pure knowledge bombs, and deconstructed the entire premises you're basing ur phoniness off of go begin w. Why beat a dead donkey all the time?

Fine sitting back sometimes, letting others put a lasso on ur ass, while I just roas u for ur overarching character n persona in this,

That frames ur bogus bball perspective on this to begin with.

Red said:

Well I can't comment on your sweeping assertion of how "fans" feel, b/c I'm not a fan of BOS or ORL

And if his is your way of justifying poor defense considering MDA's pay, its weak at best.

Once you learn to evaluate a coaches skills "INDEPENDENT" of the players then we can talk about who's good and who's not.

Dealing with an environment like NYC is a sought after trait for successful coaches here... which if a coach can do this, he is more likly on our radar, does this have anything to do with rosters? No

Showing an improvement in overall defense is another valid indicator for probable success, and is attributed to coaching ability (just as you and others claim MDA can and has done offense wise). This weak point (regardless of the names on the roster) can and should be extrapolated to draw conclusions of probable success rates.

After an up close look, MDA has failed to demonstrate this sought after ability.

We have decided to move on. Thus goes business. Were not running a clinic to learn to coach, we're a business about results.

Did Mike completely fail. Obviously not, there were some positives namely we got Melo and raised ticket prices, put us back on the map.

To conclude things will be any different than what years of past experience has shown is stubborness, and to believe an asstant will be welcomed by him is totally ignorant of the past. He declined!

Click to expand...

Hey, they say if you can make in in NY you can make it anywhere. In the NBA once you fail in NY, it is career suicide. Chaney, Wilkens, Brown, (Bobcats whatever), Isiah, Layden. Where are they now. Out of the league or in a much less prominent role in the NBA. If MDA refuses a defensive guru (I would like Mike Brown as that guru....That Cavs defense was good.) Then he must leave.

Phil Jackson has Tex Winter (the father of the triangle offense). Great leaders surround themselves with other great leaders. If he refuses, then that decision will be the definitive moment that declares that MDA is not the coach for this team or any team in the NBA.

The bottom line in all this is if MDA's teams were going to play good defense they would have played good defense in Phoenix and the last two years with the Knicks. They havent. In order to get this team to play defense on a championship level a coaching change will be needed.

I know you guys that like MDA want to give him a chance, but you gotta ask yourselves:

Do you want to risk another year or two hoping MDA can change and instill a championship caliber defense?

Or would you rather fast track this thing and get someone who can definitely change the culture?

Personally, waiting isnt an option. He has never done it before. Like I said in the past the Knicks shouldn't be MDA's test subject. Get someone that's proven...

Clyde & The Pearl said:

The bottom line in all this is if MDA's teams were going to play good defense they would have played good defense in Phoenix and the last two years with the Knicks. They havent. In order to get this team to play defense on a championship level a coaching change will be needed.

I know you guys that like MDA want to give him a chance, but you gotta ask yourselves:

Do you want to risk another year or two hoping MDA can change and instill a championship caliber defense?

Or would you rather fast track this thing and get someone who can definitely change the culture?

Personally, waiting isnt an option. He has never done it before. Like I said in the past the Knicks shouldn't be MDA's test subject. Get someone that's proven...

Click to expand...

Thats true. But the thing is who's available. Mike Brown is the best available coach (maybe Sloan) but no one likes him (which I can understand why.).

Once the season ends, we'll find out. But its not looking good. Walsh would have a better idea on lesser name coaches. Its imperative MDA agrees to a defensive guru. If not, he must leave.

This team is not built right now to play tough defense. From the top down. We have 2 or 3 above average defenders (JJ, Fields, Turiaf). The rest of the team is FAR more offensively skilled then they are defensively.

Do you honestly think that thibedoux would be able to magically make billups younger and faster again? or that he could teach Amar'e enough defensive skill to stop the likes of dwight howard? would JVG be able to rile up the boys enough to shut down the 4 superstars on the Celtics the entire game?

I understand that many people shit on Mda's phillosophy, and they have good reasons to do so. HE's never won a title, he hasn't done shit for the last two years, he has a stupid mustache. All valid points.

But do you honestly think that any other coach would have this team playing better defense? how could you expect that with the player we have? None of them are All-NBA defensive 1st or even 2nd teamers. It's unrealistic to think that a coach is going to turn the team around by himself. Steve Kerr is right in that more moves need to be made.

This season was all about getting back into the playoffs. we look like we are there, we just need to close out the season. Barring the continual collapse going on we will make it. I don't know if we can escape from the 1st round with this team yet, kind of hard to do with no starting Center. But i will be pleased if we can make the first series in like 8 years an interesting one.

Next year I'll be screaming for a lot more then 7th seed and a 1st round exit, but expecting more this year is unreasonable.

p0nder said:

This team is not built right now to play tough defense. From the top down. We have 2 or 3 above average defenders (JJ, Fields, Turiaf). The rest of the team is FAR more offensively skilled then they are defensively.

Do you honestly think that thibedoux would be able to magically make billups younger and faster again? or that he could teach Amar'e enough defensive skill to stop the likes of dwight howard? would JVG be able to rile up the boys enough to shut down the 4 superstars on the Celtics the entire game?

I understand that many people shit on Mda's phillosophy, and they have good reasons to do so. HE's never won a title, he hasn't done shit for the last two years, he has a stupid mustache. All valid points.

But do you honestly think that any other coach would have this team playing better defense? how could you expect that with the player we have? None of them are All-NBA defensive 1st or even 2nd teamers. It's unrealistic to think that a coach is going to turn the team around by himself. Steve Kerr is right in that more moves need to be made.

This season was all about getting back into the playoffs. we look like we are there, we just need to close out the season. Barring the continual collapse going on we will make it. I don't know if we can escape from the 1st round with this team yet, kind of hard to do with no starting Center. But i will be pleased if we can make the first series in like 8 years an interesting one.

Next year I'll be screaming for a lot more then 7th seed and a 1st round exit, but expecting more this year is unreasonable.

Click to expand...

LOL Mustache.......

Hey man I like your points. We have holes on this team. No doubt. But I dont expect a Thibedeau to make us what Chicago is now defensively. But we can be so much better with defensive schemes and team defense.

Blumatic said:

Hey, they say if you can make in in NY you can make it anywhere. In the NBA once you fail in NY, it is career suicide. Chaney, Wilkens, Brown, (Bobcats whatever), Isiah, Layden. Where are they now. Out of the league or in a much less prominent role in the NBA. If MDA refuses a defensive guru (I would like Mike Brown as that guru....That Cavs defense was good.) Then he must leave.

Phil Jackson has Tex Winter (the father of the triangle offense). Great leaders surround themselves with other great leaders. If he refuses, then that decision will be the definitive moment that declares that MDA is not the coach for this team or any team in the NBA.

Click to expand...

Phil Jackson had Tex Winter. He died a bit ago dude.

Just to weigh in re: this assistant coach issue.. I'd also love for MDA to bring on a defensive strategist, but I just don't see it happening due to the fact Dan D' antoni is the current d- coach (if this is not accurate please someone correct me). I think for MDA to replace his brother w someone else would be like selling him out. He just not going to do that.

I think the idea should be to find someone who's willing to come in and colaborate with MDA's older brother. Replacing him is simply off the table in IMO.

^^ +1

Here's thing, we have gaping holes in our team, and defense really, that are purely a player personallel issue.

A great D coach (Pop, Tibs) can still work around this, and certainly make the D overall better.

A coach like MDA, like most, can not.

This doesn't mean he doesn't know D, doesn't like D, and can't coach a team with good D that works in the system.

He simply needs a greater degree of inherent ability in the roster.

Given how huge the aforesaid holes are, even Tibs would not be able to make us a CHI-like D..and considering whatever we could lose on offense...We aren't talking about a panacea fix with any coach right now.

We do know that we have a coach who had us 1 or 2 offense in league, and had our team playing above expectations and trending upward in this seminal Yr 1 after a total roster decimations.

Don't be so foolish to think to think this same coach is so foolish to not being able to make major improvements in our D, and overall team, if he gets a better roster, re: D.

This doesn't have to do with better players per say -- eg Melo > Gallo/Chandler.

We are discussing D and getting our team rounded out to everyone's satisfaction.

That means a legit NBA starting C, and a veteran skilled bench guy who plays smart.

If anything, the Melo trade directly hinders our D in the present, and clearly makes us more dysfunctional.

We didn't give up Chandler and AR and Walker. We gave up a lot.

For the better good, and to have the best blueprint for soon (within 1yr/season) filling out a bonefied champion? I hope so/think so.