Knicks "AINT" feeling MDA

iSaYughh

Starter
"Privately, the Knicks question whether they should just run up and down the floor jacking up shots. They've wondered somewhat aloud whether the game should be slowed to let Stoudemire and Anthony operate in a more structured offense. Defensively, they're offended by the notion of that word and their team being mentioned in the same breath. They don't like being laughed at. And tension is elevating because of it."

There's no opinion in there.

Yes...very true....Hence a very big reason we look out of whack and loose at the seams....

The transition of this trade has included a major decision n trial period, re: our offensive style n tempo...highlighted by the superstar n star brought in, and how to best make what we have a winner come playoff time, one way r another.

But i guess this is all just an "excuse" for MDA....
 

iSaYughh

Starter
But when I said it, I was "emotional", and "owning myself"... whatever dumba$$ sh*t that means..smh

Listen our window is now!


IT HAS BEEN DECIDED. MIKE D'ANTONI IS WRONG FOR OUR FUTURE ENDEVOURS.

I'm not playing anymore waitng games. Next order of business, a replacement and real coach.

Good thread.

God ur being dumb, and trying to flaunt an ego when the iq ur showing shows me u should still he playing with a leggo...You can't just stick to ur shit, the team, and enjoy things without devolving ur style n agenda into an ugly mashup of Kayne West, Tyra Banks, and Rosie O Donnel...

The actual heart of what Smith said...n more import, what is emanating from the locker room and players...is precisely what I educated u on earlier. Even before Smith's report, it was obvious what was going on and the conflicts between coaching, offensive system, and the very players who got brought in...and the very players who were here before.

Not even did i direct this to u...

But like a rabied pit you emo'd out with ur song n dance, calling it all "excuses" and "weakness" and then showing ur MDA roid rage....

:magi:

You owned yourself then. And ur ownage keeping dripping like a faucet...smh.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
Yes...very true....Hence a very big reason we look out of whack and loose at the seams....

The transition of this trade has included a major decision n trial period, re: our offensive style n tempo...highlighted by the superstar n star brought in, and how to best make what we have a winner come playoff time, one way r another.

But i guess this is all just an "excuse" for MDA....

But the trade and this "trial period" that you speak of, have nothing to do with the Knicks taking leads into the 4th and relinquishing that lead because they're still running a SSOL type offense to create extra possessions....possessions that the opposing team takes advantage of because of our lack of defense...that's a fundamental flaw...doesn't matter who you have on your roster. It goes against every established rule of any sport that has a game clock. Late in the game, you create fewer possessions, eat the clock, take care of the ball, defend, and then win.

The Knicks philosophy doesn't match that, and if the shots ain't falling, we ain't winning....even with a lead in the 4th.

That was going on in 2008, 2009, 2010, and now 2011. That has nothing to do with the trade, gelling, or any other bullshit you hear on tv and on the radio and try to dress up with an impressive vocabulary to sound like you're in the know.

The new additions are just coming in and questioning the very foundation and belief system that's implemented in the New York Knicks strategy to "win" games, and those inquiries are falling on D'Antoni since he's the one who installed this system.
 

knicksman20

Benchwarmer
But the trade and this "trial period" that you speak of, have nothing to do with the Knicks taking leads into the 4th and relinquishing that lead because they're still running a SSOL type offense to create extra possessions....possessions that the opposing team takes advantage of because of our lack of defense...that's a fundamental flaw...doesn't matter who you have on your roster. It goes against every established rule of any sport that has a game clock. Late in the game, you create fewer possessions, eat the clock, take care of the ball, defend, and then win.

The Knicks philosophy doesn't match that, and if the shots ain't falling, we ain't winning....even with a lead in the 4th.

That was going on in 2008, 2009, 2010, and now 2011. That has nothing to do with the trade, gelling, or any other bullshit you hear on tv and on the radio and try to dress up with an impressive vocabulary to sound like you're in the know.

The new additions are just coming in and questioning the very foundation and belief system that's implemented in the New York Knicks strategy to "win" games, and those inquiries are falling on D'Antoni since he's the one who installed this system.

Not only is this catching on with the players but more & more people are vocalizing this problem as they should. There's ZERO accountability in the DA era on offense & defense. With these new pieces we need a fresh face & a coach that's going to hold players accountable for blown assignments & lack of effort. I truly believe DA is incapable of doing that.
 

Red

TYPE-A
But getting him in the summer would have given Melo a full training camp and a full season to acclimate himself to his teammates...it would have been a different scenario. We are expecting him and the team to immediately come together, when in reality these guys have been together one month with not a ton of high-intensity practices together.

Agreed. We can speculate we would be as good or better with practice etc...

BUT

Recall, everyone was COOL where we were with Ray Felt. & co. correct?

Now let me say this as clearly as possible...

Yes we were cool GIVEN who we were, and relative to where we were.

Now lets take this into account... WITH RAY FELT & co. WE WERE 28TH IN TEAM DEFENSE!!!!!

Were YOU cool with that? Knowing how important defense is, were you actually content with that stat? I bet not. I bet you would like an improvement, not "expecting" but wanted an improvement. Is that safe to assume?

Well then, whether the trade was better for us, worse for us, or equal in terms of overall player output, YOU still would like that 28th stat to change right? Yeah, because you want a winner (I said wanted not expected).

Ok soooo, regardless of who came here when, what evidence or credence do you have that this all important stat will change? There is none.

Therefore, replacing coach to faclitate this improvement in defense was actually inevitible. Now that Melo is here from Feb instead of July gives us an opportunity to upgrade befroe the season starts, so gelling won't be an issue going forward. See?
 
Agreed. We can speculate we would be as good or better with practice etc...

BUT

Recall, everyone was COOL where we were with Ray Felt. & co. correct?

Now let me say this as clearly as possible...

Yes we were cool GIVEN who we were, and relative to where we were.

Now lets take this into account... WITH RAY FELT & co. WE WERE 28TH IN TEAM DEFENSE!!!!!

Were YOU cool with that? Knowing how important defense is, were you actually content with that stat? I bet not. I bet you would like an improvement, not "expecting" but wanted an improvement. Is that safe to assume?

Well then, whether the trade was better for us, worse for us, or equal in terms of overall player output, YOU still would like that 28th stat to change right? Yeah, because you want a winner (I said wanted not expected).

Ok soooo, regardless of who came here when, what evidence or credence do you have that this all important stat will change? There is none.

Therefore, replacing coach to faclitate this improvement in defense was actually inevitible. Now that Melo is here from Feb instead of July gives us an opportunity to upgrade befroe the season starts, so gelling won't be an issue going forward. See?


The funny thing is, the Bobcats were 1st in OPPG last season with Felton as starting PG. Him and Chandler are also doing a good job on defense for the Nuggets now. I think Felton was pretty average to bad for us defensively. Given the fact that he's been rock solid for 2 other teams leads me to the conclusion that our coaching staff suck when it comes to defense. Not only Mike, all 5 of them.
 

nyk_nyk

All Star
But the trade and this "trial period" that you speak of, have nothing to do with the Knicks taking leads into the 4th and relinquishing that lead because they're still running a SSOL type offense to create extra possessions....possessions that the opposing team takes advantage of because of our lack of defense...that's a fundamental flaw...doesn't matter who you have on your roster. It goes against every established rule of any sport that has a game clock. Late in the game, you create fewer possessions, eat the clock, take care of the ball, defend, and then win.

The Knicks philosophy doesn't match that, and if the shots ain't falling, we ain't winning....even with a lead in the 4th.

That was going on in 2008, 2009, 2010, and now 2011. That has nothing to do with the trade, gelling, or any other bullshit you hear on tv and on the radio and try to dress up with an impressive vocabulary to sound like you're in the know.

The new additions are just coming in and questioning the very foundation and belief system that's implemented in the New York Knicks strategy to "win" games, and those inquiries are falling on D'Antoni since he's the one who installed this system.

I love when sensible basketball knowledge is displayed on this site. I like this post because it outlines the critical issue with MDA and his "philosophy".

When attempting to close a team out, you cannot continue to speed up the game and take the first open shot (as MDA likes to play it). Also, the 3's should be curbed at this point since they are low % shots. The ball should be in Melo or Amare's hands and attempts should be made to get to the basket at all times if neccessary. TD should not be playing like he's the alpha dog on this team. Shawn Williams shoud NOT be playing the 5 at the end of games simply because he can hit a shot. Turiaf is valuable but MDA doesn't allow him to finish games because MDA doesn't understand how to strategize defensively. All he sees is a guy who can't hit a jumpshot if open.

Going into the 4th qtr in the BOS game MDA said to his players, "do you guys wanna win? Well they can't out run us!" The team immediately switched focus from defense to offense and the rest is history. That's something you say at the beginning of the game, not in a close game going into the 4th with the lead. This proves that his philosophy doesn't or can't change during the course of the game, which has nothing to do with the players on the team.
 

moneyg

Starter
But getting him in the summer would have given Melo a full training camp and a full season to acclimate himself to his teammates...it would have been a different scenario. We are expecting him and the team to immediately come together, when in reality these guys have been together one month with not a ton of high-intensity practices together.


i dont see much of a difference happenin even with a training camp... you have to get the player to buy in..... and they r not.. becuz they can see thru his BS.... Stat was being patient because he didnt have the talent around him.. now he does....

stop findin excuses for this prick.. ur in denial

see ya....
 
I love when sensible basketball knowledge is displayed on this site. I like this post because it outlines the critical issue with MDA and his "philosophy".

When attempting to close a team out, you cannot continue to speed up the game and take the first open shot (as MDA likes to play it). Also, the 3's should be curbed at this point since they are low % shots. The ball should be in Melo or Amare's hands and attempts should be made to get to the basket at all times if neccessary. TD should not be playing like he's the alpha dog on this team. Shawn Williams shoud NOT be playing the 5 at the end of games simply because he can hit a shot. Turiaf is valuable but MDA doesn't allow him to finish games because MDA doesn't understand how to strategize defensively. All he sees is a guy who can't hit a jumpshot if open.



Going into the 4th qtr in the BOS game MDA said to his players, "do you guys wanna win? Well they can't out run us!" The team immediately switched focus from defense to offense and the rest is history. That's something you say at the beginning of the game, not in a close game going into the 4th with the lead. This proves that his philosophy doesn't or can't change during the course of the game, which has nothing to do with the players on the team.


Great follow up to Nuckles excellent post. :beer:
 

KBlack25

Starter
i dont see much of a difference happenin even with a training camp... you have to get the player to buy in..... and they r not.. becuz they can see thru his BS.... Stat was being patient because he didnt have the talent around him.. now he does....

stop findin excuses for this prick.. ur in denial

see ya....

Didn't you say, pre-Melo trade, he DID have the talent?

Read Kerr's comments in my other thread...he is not surprised they are struggling because it was a huge personnel shakeup, and they need time to gel. He says that even MDA knew he had a huge task at hand to get these guys to gel immediately, our .500 record since Melo showed up is of no shock to him...and he claims we have at least 3 moves to make to be good and "anyone with basketball knowledge knows that".
 

clumsy

Rotation player
i honestly think we should get rid of D'Antoni just to shake things up. It's not a great situation for him, and not really a great one for the Knicks anyway. I don't see how this isn't a win-win for the Knicks and D'Antoni. We can possibly go on a run due to a change of coaching scenery, and it doesn't seem Donnie is too hype to resign D'Antoni anyway.

It's the same in any company when people no longer listen to a project manager....you cut your loses early by letting your your project manager go. It doesn't mean he's a bad project manager, just that he wasn't a good fit for this job.
 

nyk_nyk

All Star
Didn't you say, pre-Melo trade, he DID have the talent?

Read Kerr's comments in my other thread...he is not surprised they are struggling because it was a huge personnel shakeup, and they need time to gel. He says that even MDA knew he had a huge task at hand to get these guys to gel immediately, our .500 record since Melo showed up is of no shock to him...and he claims we have at least 3 moves to make to be good and "anyone with basketball knowledge knows that".

So because we have "at least 3 moves to make", that's an excuse for getting blown out by the Bucks and losing to IND twice and losing to DET??? Don't forget CLE!

Hell, I don't know about you or Kerr, but I was very surprised that we lost against those bad teams. We should have won and if we were better coached then it would have happened. I don't understand how we're getting embarassed by lesser teams and both you and Kerr aren't surprised. We may not be a complete team but we aren't that bad.
 

KBlack25

Starter
i honestly think we should get rid of D'Antoni just to shake things up. It's not a great situation for him, and not really a great one for the Knicks anyway. I don't see how this isn't a win-win for the Knicks and D'Antoni. We can possibly go on a run due to a change of coaching scenery, and it doesn't seem Donnie is too hype to resign D'Antoni anyway.

It's the same in any company when people no longer listen to a project manager....you cut your loses early by letting your your project manager go. It doesn't mean he's a bad project manager, just that he wasn't a good fit for this job.

Re-adjustment period might have us in 8th or worse. I bet the Knicks will lose MDA in the offseason (which I prefer to firing him now), bring in someone new for training camp (barring a lockout) and long-term, high-intensity practices to do his thing.

As for Walsh, he doesn't seem to keen on coming back in the Knicks office, period.
 
So because we have "at least 3 moves to make", that's an excuse for getting blown out by the Bucks and losing to IND twice and losing to DET??? Don't forget CLE!

Hell, I don't know about you or Kerr, but I was very surprised that we lost against those bad teams. We should have won and if we were better coached then it would have happened. I don't understand how we're getting embarassed by lesser teams and both you and Kerr aren't surprised. We may not be a complete team but we aren't that bad.


I have to agree with this post. When it comes to losing against teams that the Knicks are just straight up better than, there isn't really anyone to blame except for the coach. Even if Melo has a bad night we should still be able to overcome that because our coach can figure out other ways to win.

Now, I also believe this is going to take some time to form cohesion with the new players and all of that jazz. But at the same time we have to consider that we are hanging around with the good teams, sometimes beating them, but are struggling with the poor teams. When we do hang with the good teams we crumble in the 4th quarter-- in our situation it appears that this is because our coach is inflexible and unwilling to deviate from his offensive scheme.
 

KBlack25

Starter
So because we have "at least 3 moves to make", that's an excuse for getting blown out by the Bucks and losing to IND twice and losing to DET??? Don't forget CLE!

Hell, I don't know about you or Kerr, but I was very surprised that we lost against those bad teams. We should have won and if we were better coached then it would have happened. I don't understand how we're getting embarassed by lesser teams and both you and Kerr aren't surprised. We may not be a complete team but we aren't that bad.

Indiana is a decent team we do not matchup well with at all...

And I'm not surprised, seeing as the Heat lost to Indiana, New Orleans, Utah, Memphis in their first 17. And they had a full training camp to gel.

In-season it's more difficult to come together as a team, you are practicing less because you are on the road (traveling) more than you are in the summer. Plus Melo and Amare do not fit perfectly together, Melo is a ball to the basket, the ball stops in his hand and MDA relies on ball movement and spreading the floor for his offense to work. Are we as bad as we have shown, talent-wise? No. But these things don't happen overnight. Melo needs to adjust his game just as much as D'Antoni needs to adjust. These things need time.

Do I think D'Antoni is fired in the offseason? I sure do. But that doesn't mean that anyone can just plug 2 guys in after losing 3 starters without a full-length training camp as effectively as he needs to.
 
Indiana is a decent team we do not matchup well with at all...

And I'm not surprised, seeing as the Heat lost to Indiana, New Orleans, Utah, Memphis in their first 17. And they had a full training camp to gel.

In-season it's more difficult to come together as a team, you are practicing less because you are on the road (traveling) more than you are in the summer. Plus Melo and Amare do not fit perfectly together, Melo is a ball to the basket, the ball stops in his hand and MDA relies on ball movement and spreading the floor for his offense to work. Are we as bad as we have shown, talent-wise? No. But these things don't happen overnight. Melo needs to adjust his game just as much as D'Antoni needs to adjust. These things need time.

Do I think D'Antoni is fired in the offseason? I sure do. But that doesn't mean that anyone can just plug 2 guys in after losing 3 starters without a full-length training camp as effectively as he needs to.

Diffrence is all those teams you mention are over .500 or playoff bound. There's no disgrace losing to them. Totally incomparable to the Knicks losing to the Cavs, Bucks & Pistons...
 

OakTree

Rookie
i honestly think we should get rid of D'Antoni just to shake things up. It's not a great situation for him, and not really a great one for the Knicks anyway. I don't see how this isn't a win-win for the Knicks and D'Antoni. We can possibly go on a run due to a change of coaching scenery, and it doesn't seem Donnie is too hype to resign D'Antoni anyway.

It's the same in any company when people no longer listen to a project manager....you cut your loses early by letting your your project manager go. It doesn't mean he's a bad project manager, just that he wasn't a good fit for this job.

But what if he went over 500 in the playoffs with a previous company? :)

Agreed. Well said--objective and lucid. :thumbsup:
 

la2ny

Starter
If we still had the old team and we were losing like this I dont think this would even be as big as it is media wise.
 
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