The Official Hire Van Gundy Thread

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
STACKED?!?!?!?!

Sometimes your memory of what happened back then seems really selective :p

Ewing - injured for over half the playoffs
LJ - was not a great player in NY averaged about 12 points for us was never an all star with the Knicks
Dudley - LOL
Sprewell - SF in his first season as a Knick... ring any bells?
Houston - great player
Ward - not even a top 10 pg
Childs - not even a top 20 pg

So, you can argue that we had 3 all stars on our roster (Ewing, Houston, Sprewell) one of whom and our best player had very little impact on the 1999 playoffs due to missing everything from game 5 vs the Heat onwards.

Also you seem to forget JVG BUILT that NY roster of Houston, Sprewell, Camby, Ward, Larry Johnson and most of those moves received HUGE criticism. Sprewell's last move in the NBA before we acquired him was choking out P J Carlesimo... Larry Johnson was always a controversial player with his outspoken religion and had issues with many teammates in his short career... Charlie Ward was still Derek Harpers backup when JVG took over.#

I don't even know what you're trying to say about the 8th seed but whatever it is, is incorrect. We were 8th seed once under JVG in 1999, and JVG's playoff runs went like this:

96 playoffs: lost to the 72 win Bulls in JVG's first EVER season as a head coach
97 playoffs: lost to the Heat after leading 3-1 due to the suspension of Ward, Ewing, LJ, Houston and Starks
98 playoffs: Ewing out for half of the season and half of the playoffs, still beat the Heat but lost to the Pacers who actually were a STACKED team
99 playoffs: NBA finals, Ewing out for most of the playoffs
2000: lost in ECF finals

Damn yeah, its not like his record is 100 times better than MDA, or that he traded for players who would go down in the memories of Knicks fans forever right?

Houston was NOT a great player. in fact his signing was the worst thing that this franchise did besides the Ewing debacle... Do you know that Houston was signed over getting Reggie Miller!!!! That was actually admitted by Walsh when he was interviewed after taking the Knicks job... Miller was all set to come to NY, was holding out on the Pacers and they gave Houston that disgusting contract!!! That contract also caused the Knicks to trade Spree to the Wolves....
Also, again if you didn't see it with your own eyes you CAN NOT comment... OK, I saw LJ play for NY and he was a heck of a player. His numbers didn't reflect his game because his scoring took a back seat to Ewing!! OK, so Johnson's numbers were better when Ewing was out. Another reason why his numbers took a hit is because they played him out of position... If you remember, he was a 5 and they tried to make him a 4 and he would get TOASTED by true 4s so they moved him back and that also made Oakley dispensable. Spree played the 3 (averaged 18.6 points) and the 2.. He started at the 3 but played the 2 spot plenty of minutes and dominated at both positions! The Knicks should have done better but your genuis JVG dindn't know how to use these guys because he wanted to force them to play and slow, half court grinding game and spree and LJ needed more motion for their games. You could argue that JVG prevented that team from reaching it's potential especially offensively.
 

smokes

Huge Member
Houston was NOT a great player. in fact his signing was the worst thing that this franchise did besides the Ewing debacle... Do you know that Houston was signed over getting Reggie Miller!!!! That was actually admitted by Walsh when he was interviewed after taking the Knicks job... Miller was all set to come to NY, was holding out on the Pacers and they gave Houston that disgusting contract!!! That contract also caused the Knicks to trade Spree to the Wolves....
Also, again if you didn't see it with your own eyes you CAN NOT comment... OK, I saw LJ play for NY and he was a heck of a player. His numbers didn't reflect his game because his scoring took a back seat to Ewing!! OK, so Johnson's numbers were better when Ewing was out. Another reason why his numbers took a hit is because they played him out of position... If you remember, he was a 5 and they tried to make him a 4 and he would get TOASTED by true 4s so they moved him back and that also made Oakley dispensable. Spree played the 3 (averaged 18.6 points) and the 2.. He started at the 3 but played the 2 spot plenty of minutes...

Thanks but I saw plenty of that season with my own eyes so I can comment.

Houston was a great player unfortunately yes his contract screwed our franchise no doubt, if not for his injury though he was still a top 3 or 4 SG in the league at the time. Still the fact of his contract does not factor into his skill as a player which is what my "great player" comment was based on.

From what I remember LJ had about 12 ppg when Ewing was around and 15ppg when he was out. Not exactly a huge leap. LJ was a great player for us no doubt I'm not disputing that but he was not an all star like his days in Charlotte.

Spree was a beast I'm not disputing that as I said we had 3 great players one of whom was out for 3 series' in the 1999 playoffs so the team was not "stacked" that year. Considering you're saying Houston wasn't great that leaves 1 great player so hardly a stacked team at all in your opinion I guess? :)

The Knicks should have done better but your genuis JVG dindn't know how to use these guys because he wanted to force them to play and slow, half court grinding game and spree and LJ needed more motion for their games. You could argue that JVG prevented that team from reaching it's potential especially offensively.

And dude, JVG forced them to play slow yes.... I wonder why? Could it be because you had one the GOAT centers on your team who has bad knees so you can't play a run and gun style with him? Regular season JVG Knicks were one of the worst offense in the league (almost as bad as Pat Riley Knicks) but playoff Knicks especially in that 99 season put up a few 100+ games running a quicker offense (since Ewing was out) and you have to remember the teams they beat were the Heat (Alonzo Mourning, PJ Brown, coached by Pat Riley etc) and the Pacers (Smitz, Davis etc) the top defenses in the NBA and went out to the Spurs (Robinson and Duncan twin 7 footers).
 

The Garden '95

Benchwarmer
Houston was NOT a great player. in fact his signing was the worst thing that this franchise did besides the Ewing debacle... Do you know that Houston was signed over getting Reggie Miller!!!! That was actually admitted by Walsh when he was interviewed after taking the Knicks job... Miller was all set to come to NY, was holding out on the Pacers and they gave Houston that disgusting contract!!! That contract also caused the Knicks to trade Spree to the Wolves....
Also, again if you didn't see it with your own eyes you CAN NOT comment... OK, I saw LJ play for NY and he was a heck of a player. His numbers didn't reflect his game because his scoring took a back seat to Ewing!! OK, so Johnson's numbers were better when Ewing was out. Another reason why his numbers took a hit is because they played him out of position... If you remember, he was a 5 and they tried to make him a 4 and he would get TOASTED by true 4s so they moved him back and that also made Oakley dispensable. Spree played the 3 (averaged 18.6 points) and the 2.. He started at the 3 but played the 2 spot plenty of minutes and dominated at both positions! The Knicks should have done better but your genuis JVG dindn't know how to use these guys because he wanted to force them to play and slow, half court grinding game and spree and LJ needed more motion for their games. You could argue that JVG prevented that team from reaching it's potential especially offensively.

if houston wasnt a star he was on the cusp of stardom before his knee injury he was averaging 22.5 so who knows how good he coulve been.
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
You're right but you should also remember Camby was still young, came to NY kinda during his post-rookie slump and he choked a lot that season. I remember Camby blowing dunks, getting layups rejected because he was too afraid to dunk it, and watching him shoot a free throw was almost as bad as Chris Dudley. He was never gonna be even half a replacement for Ewing.

Camby also had injuries that year iirc.

Also from my memory Ewing was out in game 5 against the Heat onwards. We still beat the Pacers who took the Bulls to 7 games the year before. And obviously, against the twin towers of SA we really had no chance without Ewing.

He came to NY as a 3rd year player and it was the wonderful JVG that benched him. If you remember JVG HATED Camby because he felt he was undersized for a 5 and tried to force him to play the 4.... JVG was also very loyal to Oak and was fuming that Oak was being traded for an "under sized" 5. That's what was causing his issues... The 2 years in Toronto he was running the court, high fly dunks and was very athletic... He cam to NY and couldn't really adapt to the grinding half court game; especially at the 4... When Ewing went down, he was moved to the 5 (reluctantly by JVG) and started to get his game back... Later in his career when he was asked about his time, he politely and very tastefully hinted on his dislike of JVG and he was baffled as to why he was annexed...
 

smokes

Huge Member
He came to NY as a 3rd year player and it was the wonderful JVG that benched him. If you remember JVG HATED Camby because he felt he was undersized for a 5 and tried to force him to play the 4.... JVG was also very loyal to Oak and was fuming that Oak was being traded for an "under sized" 5. That's what was causing his issues... The 2 years in Toronto he was running the court, high fly dunks and was very athletic... He cam to NY and couldn't really adapt to the grinding half court game; especially at the 4... When Ewing went down, he was moved to the 5 (reluctantly by JVG) and started to get his game back... Later in his career when he was asked about his time, he politely and very tastefully hinted on his dislike of JVG and he was baffled as to why he was annexed...

I know that but it's not like Camby went from being amazing to being shit in NY and then being amazing after NY. He was an awesome rookie, cooled down for a couple of years, was not great in NY (yes part of this is JVG's fault) but never really became great. His career numbers are not very different from his numbers in NY.

I do agree Camby could have had a much bigger impact on the Knicks and he did have some great plays with us especially in 99 if he had been more consistent he could have helped us HUGELY. But he was really undersized back then if you remember he was Anthony Randolph size playing against beasts like Mourning, Robinson, Duncan. He was skinny as hell in NY.
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
Houston was a great player unfortunately yes his contract screwed our franchise no doubt, if not for his injury though he was still a top 3 or 4 SG in the league at the time. Still the fact of his contract does not factor into his skill as a player which is what my "great player" comment was based on.
Houston was not a great player, he was a great shooter... His strength was as a spot up shooter and it was JVG that forced him to try to be a slashing type player which eventually led to his injury... You guys have selective memories!!! That's why they eventaully got rid of Spree.. They thought they could make Houston a slasher/Dunker.....

From what I remember LJ had about 12 ppg when Ewing was around and 15ppg when he was out. Not exactly a huge leap. LJ was a great player for us no doubt I'm not disputing that but he was not an all star like his days in Charlotte.
LJ, when at the 4 (I think I made a typo in my last post...) was a monster in the paint... It was when they put him at the 3 when his numbers tanked because he was not a 3 AT ALL... In Charlotte he played the 4 and was an all star... With the Knicks, they started his Knicks tenure at the 3 but then moed him back to the 4 where he got his game back...

Spree was a beast I'm not disputing that as I said we had 3 great players one of whom was out for 3 series' in the 1999 playoffs so the team was not "stacked" that year. Considering you're saying Houston wasn't great that leaves 1 great player so hardly a stacked team at all in your opinion I guess? :)

They had a hell of a team!!! The 2 stars were Ewing and Spree in my opinion with LJ being a half notch down and Houston being a great role player that should have been a 6th man not a starter... Camby was a misused player and Childs was a 2 forced to play out of position at the 1 spot... The Knicks were 1 true pg away from being a top team... I always felt that was the missing piece on those team was the true QB at the 1...



And dude, JVG forced them to play slow yes.... I wonder why? Could it be because you had one the GOAT centers on your team who has bad knees so you can't play a run and gun style with him? Regular season JVG Knicks were one of the worst offense in the league (almost as bad as Pat Riley Knicks) but playoff Knicks especially in that 99 season put up a few 100+ games running a quicker offense (since Ewing was out) and you have to remember the teams they beat were the Heat (Alonzo Mourning, PJ Brown, coached by Pat Riley etc) and the Pacers (Smitz, Davis etc) the top defenses in the NBA and went out to the Spurs (Robinson and Duncan twin 7 footers).

Both Riley and JVG practiced the ever living hell out their players and probably shorted the careers of a few by a few years because of it... Remember, JVG was groomed by Riley.... The point is that coaches and players need to be matched or it won't work... Right now the Knicks are building a team... I never thought Melo was the answer... There was a time I did want Melo, if you look at my old posts from 3 years ago I was calling for Melo OVER LaBron for this team (MDA's first year). But STAT changed that for me and I thought they would be a bad mix... I have stated that right from the start, I never swayed on that opinion and despite defending the Knicks... I still think it was a bad match... I wanted Kevin Martin or Granger and half the price of a Melo and to use the money to get other pieces needed to round off this roster. Melo is here, he is a star in this league and I have to give Walsh/MDA the benefit of the doubt until they complete this rebuild...
 
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smokes

Huge Member
Houston was not a great player, he was a great shooter... His strength was as a spot up shooter and it was JVG that forced him to try to be a slashing type player which eventually led to his injury... You guys have selective memories!!! That's why they eventaully got rid of Spree.. They thought they could make Houston a slasher/Dunker.....

Well would you say Ray Allen was/is a great player? His game is a similar mold to Houston, primarily a jumpshooter, same kind of numbers posted.


LJ, when at the 4 (I think I made a typo in my last post...) was a monster in the paint... It was when they put him at the 3 when his numbers tanked because he was not a 3 AT ALL... In Charlotte he played the 4 and was an all star... With the Knicks, they started his Knicks tenure at the 3 but then moed him back to the 4 where he got his game back...

Can't argue with that and not trying to, point is at least in 1999 LJ was playing the 4 (his best position as you say) and was not putting up awesome numbers. He was playing great some nights, definitely had a big impact on the team but was not putting up 20ppg or anything.

They had a hell of a team!!! The 2 stars were Ewing and Spree in my opinion with LJ being a half notch down and Houston being a great role player that should have been a 6th man not a starter... Camby was a misused player and Childs was a 2 forced to play out of position at the 1 spot... The Knicks were 1 true pg away from being a top team... I always felt that was the missing piece on those team was the true QB at the 1...

Again, I don't really think we are even disagreeing just looking at it from differrent viewpoints. I'm not saying the 1999 Knicks were BAD I'm saying they were not STACKED in terms of their lineup in those playoffs.

Houston (18ppg)
Camby (10ppg)
Sprewell (20+ppg)
LJ (15ppg)
Ward (8ppg)
Childs (8ppg)
Kurt Thomas (8ppg if you're lucky)

That was JVG's main player rotation (A SEVEN MAN ROTATION!!! 8 with Dudley hahaha) in 1999 and to say that team is stacked is false to me...

Both Riley and JVG practiced the ever living hell out their players and probably shorted the careers of a few by a few years because of it... Remember, JVG was groomed by Riley.... The point is that coaches and players need to be matched or it won't work... Right now the Knicks are building a team... I never thought Melo was the answer... There was a time I did want Melo, if you look at my old posts from 3 years ago I was calling for Melo OVER LaBron for this team (MDA's first year). But STAT changed that for me and I thought they would be a bad mix... I have stated that right from the start, I never swayed on that opinion and despite defending the Knicks... I still think it was a bad match... I wanted Kevin Martin or Granger and half the price of a Melo and to use the money to get other pieces needed to round off this roster. Melo is here, he is a star in this league and I have to give Walsh/MDA the benefit of the doubt until they complete this rebuild...

Yeah well I can agree again but then if players and coaches need to be matched and our players for the next 3 years is gonna be Melo and Amare, we should probably bring in JVG who's knowledge of half court basketball and defensive success is infinitely superior to MDA's and thus have a coach who matches our players.

I have nothing against people that want MDA to stay, but some of the reasons given (especially by Knicksqueens dude) just defy comprehension and are begging to be debated :)
 
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MusketeerX

Rotation player
MusketeerX - Not sure of your age but I was watching those games LIVE... Ok, and to make it sound like JFG had the daunting task of taking a team that lost its superstar and only had a bunch of complimentary players to the finals... You are just delusional. I'm sorry, but like I said I was there for the whole season and Ewing was dealing with nagging injuries that whole season and he had monster players to work with besides Ewing.... Camby, LJ, Spree, Houston... I would KILL to have those guys right now!!!! Camby, LJ and Sprewell alone are a KILLER 3 player combo!!!!!! In fact, your brilliant JVG HATED Camby and used him sparingly!! OK... He raged against that trade. He was loyal to Oakley and was very upset when mgmt pulled that trade off... It was one of the reasons that pushed him towards leaving.... So, you need to come back to reality a little and you need to realize that this team was not built for this year... it was pieces that were brought to build the future of this franchise...

Watched those ames too. That team was good, but comparable to the Phoneix teams in terms of talent. JVG made it MDA did not. Its simple. To compare MDA to JVG. I'm sorry, but to even try to compare them is absolutely absurd to me. You need a lesson in basketball my friend.

And how I know that:

I wanted Kevin Martin or Granger and half the price of a Melo and to use the money to get other pieces needed to round off this roster. Melo is here, he is a star in this league and I have to give Walsh/MDA the benefit of the doubt until they complete this rebuild...
Kevin Martin??? Really? Wow...

You see MDA out coached every game. His rotations are poor. He has no sense for defense. He has them defend the pick and roll to allow for easy jumpers. Our team gives up 112 points to teams like the Bobcats and you still defend the man -- And you defend the man against someone who actually took our team to a finals w/o their star player. That is irrational to me... just plain irrational.

Nuckles has it pretty good. The Knicks team was good, but not incredible. They won on sheer grit and defensive ability. Took them to a final -- without Ewing.

Just mind boggling to me. JVG coaches... and by that I mean he teaches. He knows half court offense and defense. That is what this team needs. You give him two superstars (true top ten players) and the sky is the limit for this team. You see what MDA has done with two superstars. He has us playing like the worst team in the league.
 
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knicksman20

Benchwarmer
Wait, Allan Houston a 6th man & just a spot up shooter? Wow!!! I think HTG is forgetting just how good Houston was. He was an average defender but played good team defense. An underrated passer & a good post up two guard. He could create his own shot anytime he wanted. A 6th man doesn't drop 53 on Kobe in LA & come back to the Garden & drop another 50:



 
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QVG will be in the booth next season but if QVG became "coach of NY" lol... I've learned from "the best" here on KO & I'll treat QVG like YOU ALL treat MDA.

Ever heard of "O'Antoni"? JVG becames QuitterVanGundy.

When NY wins it's only because he was BLESSED with another contending team; Yet AGAIN! Overrated.

When we win it's because of Amare, Melo, our future C & team. When we lose as a team? I bash QVG in every thread. That loss was HIS FAULT.

When we score over 100 it's because we have 2 of the NBA's top 5 scorers & everytime we fail to score at least 95? It's because QVG is a 1 trick pony who doesn't know or understand how to preach & teach O.

When we allow under 95 it's only because our improved C, time to GEL & Walsh upgrades. When we allow over 95? It's because QVG is overrated as a "defensive master mind"

When he refuses to start a rookie from day 1 (Mozgov) I call him a bench killer.

I'll make it KNOWN he'll NEVER win a chip cause he NEVER won one with NY or HOU!

Sound familiar? QVG hatred.
 
Thats exactly what I'll do because A) I've always considered him to be overrated thanks to a great overall & winning franchise.

B) I don't feel he deserves to be here after quitting on us while leaving this franchise in the dark for 10+ years (without thinking twice) & C)

C) I'm not a fan of QVG.

I'll do the same as you all. What comes around does go around. I'll hate QVG as soon as he took the job & run him out of town before giving him a fighting chance to win with a CONTENDING team.

QVG becomes the new "O'Antoni" with each & every thread & even if the Knicks win.. It's because Mike D'Antoni coached us up & QVG was blessed with yet again... A true contender after Walsh upgrades the C & bench depth.

JVG will NEVER win a championship because he failed to beat the up & coming dynasty Spurs (like MDA) & never won jack squat with Houston.

You QVG supporters would soon see what it feels like for QVG haters to harp all over his each & every move, give credit to Walsh & the players for W's & blame QVG for Ls
 
You know what im tired of giving mike chances im sick and tired giving mike no defense otnoni im sick and tired of reading about people giving him chances you seen it first hand while he was in phoenix give it a rest all ready! chances im sorry we are 7-10 after the break ok. defense should make up for the fact we for lack of chemistry we should be feasting on lower echleon teams. there should be no reason why we are losing to sub 500 teams non. im tired of hering o "if we have more talent this than he could do that more depth this than he can do that more talent this than he could do that" guess what people we had it burried on the bench all year before and after the trade dead line and guess what he is not using it. There should be no reason coach does not empasize defense when in the huddle practice during wherever. Im sick of looking at the matador Swiss cheese d and i know your are too especially at crunch time where it matters most!. I just read a quote earlier on espn that rings so true mda had stat bell diaw matrix and nash for crying out loud and tried to prove to everyone on that he can win without playing defense did he wind 50 win season yes did he take his team to the conference finals yes but this man is so stubborn to prove that his system will win a chip without playing defense and that his system will work that he dosent adjust to the players he has! he never has and the players he had in phoniex including the bench was ten times better than what he has right now! The ish dont fly here in new york and all of us knows it yeah jvg had a slow offense WE JUST WANT BALANCE! there is enough offensive firepower that we should focus on defensive im sick of mda supporter stick up for this man its sickning already! charles barkely said it best
quote ""Let's just cut the B.S. I like Coach D'Antoni; he's a terrific coach. But he's just not stressing defense. He's just being too damn stubborn, like he's trying to win his way. Just look at his teams in Phoenix. They were good enough offensively to win, but they never got better defensively. They just never got better. I think about that because, looking at these Knicks, it's like he is trying to prove a point that he can win with his system. And dammit, it ain't working. And it ain't gonna work."His first team in Phoenix (2004-05) was dead last in the NBA in points allowed at 103.3 per game. The next season the Suns were 28th in the league at 102.8. At no time did the Suns rank better than 23rd in the league defensivelyThe Knicks were ranked 28th in league defense in '08-09, D'Antoni's first season in New York.they're still ranked 28th. To make matters worse, they were tied for 27th in field goal percentage defense in '08-09, the worst in the league last season, and are 25th now -- yielding at least 47 percent shooting in all three years D'Antoni has been on board. To make matters worse players are embarrassed let me bold that EMBARRASSED that defense and the Knicks are antonyms of each other these players want to play team defense want to be known for that but are laughed off the court....however they are not being tought and whose shoulders does that rest on....ding ding ding ding ding ding the coach......quote from stephen a. smith "
After their loss to the Celtics, Billups, Stoudemire, Anthony, Jeffries and others were experts in evasive measures. "We sense the momentum -- we're not stupid," one Knick told me. "We can feel the heat coming in [D'Antoni's] direction. We're staying clear of that mess."
Publicly, that is!
Privately, the Knicks question whether they should just run up and down the floor jacking up shots. They've wondered somewhat aloud whether the game should be slowed to let Stoudemire and Anthony operate in a more structured offense. Defensively, they're offended by the notion of that word and their team being mentioned in the same breath. They don't like being laughed at. And tension is elevating because of it.
Down the hall, away from players, reporters are whispering about hearing assistant coaches worry that Anthony is going to get them fired. Anthony's mood and demeanor say he wouldn't mind that at all. Nobody's taking Stoudemire's compliments seriously because D'Antoni is connected to that $100 million check he's cashing.
"It's bad over there," one Celtic, who's tight with several of the Knicks, told me after the game. "Right or wrong, they're not feeling [D'Antoni]. They just ain't."
SO IM TIRED OF MDA AND HIS STUBBORNNESS HIS WILL HIM HIS SYSTEM IS TIRED HIS TRYING TO PROVE THAT ITS A PROVING WINNING FORMULA IS TIRED WE ALL KNOW THAT ISH AINT GONNA FLY IN THE EASTERN CONFERENCE ITS OBVIOUSLY NOT WORKING THAT ISH AINT GONNA FLY IN NEW YORK I DONT CARE IF ITS NOT JVG I WANT SOMEONE WHO PREACHES DEFENSE AND HOLDS PLAYERS ACCOUNTABLE ITS BEEN TO DAMN LONG SINCE WE ONE A CHIP. IF YOUR GOING TO BEAT THE BOSTONS THE CHIS THE MAGICS THE MIAMIS AND THE LAKERS OF THE WORLD YOUR HAVE TO ADJUST WILL DAMTONI DO IT? IT COMES A POINT IN TIME WHEN YOU HAVE TO PUT EGO ASIDE AND LOOK AT THE TALENT ON YOUR ROSTER AND ADJUST OR GET THE F OUTTA DODGE!
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
Well would you say Ray Allen was/is a great player? His game is a similar mold to Houston, primarily a jumpshooter, same kind of numbers posted.
You are not really comparing Ray Allen to Houston are you???? Really??? Houston was a very good outside shooter and was a smart player but numbers or not, he wasn't Ray Allen on his best day!

Yeah well I can agree again but then if players and coaches need to be matched and our players for the next 3 years is gonna be Melo and Amare, we should probably bring in JVG who's knowledge of half court basketball and defensive success is infinitely superior to MDA's and thus have a coach who matches our players.
If you truly believe this and understand how to match players to a system than you would know that this team is a HORRIBLE match for JVG! He's an old school coach who believes in a slow methodical half court game and you have a team of players that want to run... Especially STAT! He's at is best at the 5 and JVG HATES undersized 5... hence why Camby was benched... Actually, Melo could thrive in JVG's system, Billups could and I could even see Walker as well but everyone else would struggle and frustrate the hell out of JVG. I could see JVG whispering in Walsh's ear to use STAT to get other players that better fit his system. Remember, Walsh wouldn't of gotten STAT with out the blessing of MDA.... Well, that same professional courtesy would be extended to a "great coach" like JVG. I think some of you guys need to re-watch some recording of the older games with JVG and see that he is flawed as well and his weakness is on the offensive side (just ask McGrady)... Oh and by the way, he was fired by the Rockets for losing in the first round 3 out of the 4 years he was head coach... by the way the other year he didn't make the playoffs...

I have nothing against people that want MDA to stay, but some of the reasons given (especially by Knicksqueens dude) just defy comprehension and are begging to be debated :)
Feel the same way about most of the comments posted about firing MDA!
 

NewYork 21 Knicks

Benchwarmer
Wait, Allan Houston a 6th man & just a spot up shooter? Wow!!! I think HTG is forgetting just how good Houston was. He was an average defender but played good team defense. An underrated passer & a good post up two guard. He could create his own shot anytime he wanted. A 6th man doesn't drop 53 on Kobe in LA & come back to the Garden & drop another 50:




wasnt houston an all star? lol
 

p0nder

Starter
JVQ is quoted as saying that he likes MDA's offensive system. What does everyone think of that? I mean, if JVG were here and running this quick shot system, but preaching defense woul it be different? Why?
 

smokes

Huge Member
You are not really comparing Ray Allen to Houston are you???? Really??? Houston was a very good outside shooter and was a smart player but numbers or not, he wasn't Ray Allen on his best day!

What does it really matter, it's a difference of opinion. Your great could be very different from my great. I'm not saying he was an all-time NBA great I'm saying he was a great player in the league at that time (backed up by the fact he was an all star and an olympic gold medalist...)

Plus you arguing that Houston is NOT great just further backs up my original point that these 1999 Knicks were not a stacked team so thank you for that.

If you truly believe this and understand how to match players to a system than you would know that this team is a HORRIBLE match for JVG! He's an old school coach who believes in a slow methodical half court game and you have a team of players that want to run... Especially STAT! He's at is best at the 5 and JVG HATES undersized 5... hence why Camby was benched... Actually, Melo could thrive in JVG's system, Billups could and I could even see Walker as well but everyone else would struggle and frustrate the hell out of JVG. I could see JVG whispering in Walsh's ear to use STAT to get other players that better fit his system. Remember, Walsh wouldn't of gotten STAT with out the blessing of MDA.... Well, that same professional courtesy would be extended to a "great coach" like JVG. I think some of you guys need to re-watch some recording of the older games with JVG and see that he is flawed as well and his weakness is on the offensive side (just ask McGrady)... Oh and by the way, he was fired by the Rockets for losing in the first round 3 out of the 4 years he was head coach... by the way the other year he didn't make the playoffs...

If theres any guy that likes to run it might be Stat. Who else on our team can you say likes to run? There's 2 players who have only ever played under D'antoni and the rest of our roster wasn't even on the Knicks last year.

Out of our roster I think the majority of the players are much more familiar with half court basketball.

JVG might not be an offensive "genius" like MDA but who cares we have 2 superstars we are going to get offense.

I also don't know why you feel Stat is best at the 5. He played great these last years in PHX playing alongside Channing Frye, and his best ever year was playing alongside Shaq.

JVG might dislike undersized 5's (with good reason? Look at Stat getting abused by most C's in the NBA) but MDA has a love affair with them. I have my view on which is worse...

Feel the same way about most of the comments posted about firing MDA!

I'd just like to know what MDA has done this year especially in recent months that has made you think "this guy is a good coach".
 
Real Knick fans knew when both Walsh & D'Antoni accepted this job that A) No GM or Coach could ever win during the 1st two years due to the cap hell rosters of the horrible Thomas era. MDA & Walsh were both forced to scrap roster(s) & turn over entire team(s). Not one NY fan expected anything better than a 6th seed @ best heading into this season. MDA had us in great position to strike for the 5th seed & maybe even the 4th seed heading into the break... Then the trade happened, the roster got depleated on MDA (yet again) & we've yet to have the practice time to gel. Any true Knicks fan knew for the past 3 years that we wouldn't & couldn't become serious contenders until improving the team this offseason. MDA accepted this job knowing we're in rebuilding mode for 3 full years.







QVG doesn't deserve to coach this Knicks team...ever. The little quitter SEEN rebuilding mode was right around the corner, quit & left our franchise & us fans in the dark for 10+ years. How quickly you all forget. Simply pathetic
 

smokes

Huge Member
Real Knick fans knew when both Walsh & D'Antoni accepted this job that A) No GM or Coach could ever win during the 1st two years due to the cap hell rosters of the horrible Thomas era. MDA & Walsh were both forced to scrap roster(s) & turn over entire team(s). Not one NY fan expected anything better than a 6th seed @ best heading into this season. MDA had us in great position to strike for the 5th seed & maybe even the 4th seed heading into the break... Then the trade happened, the roster got depleated on MDA (yet again) & we've yet to have the practice time to gel. Any true Knicks fan knew for the past 3 years that we wouldn't & couldn't become serious contenders until improving the team this offseason. MDA accepted this job knowing we're in rebuilding mode for 3 full years.







QVG doesn't deserve to coach this Knicks team...ever. The little quitter SEEN rebuilding mode was right around the corner, quit & left our franchise & us fans in the dark for 10+ years. How quickly you all forget. Simply pathetic

Seriously man, why don't you actually try to debate points that people make instead of just recycling the same old material over and over and over in every post and every thread, its so boring to debate with someone who doesn't even try to respond to the points being made...
 
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