Or they rightly thought it would be illogical to fire a coach a few games before the end of the season and while the team are still in the race for a playoff spot. There's nothing to say that had the team gone on the losing 9/10 run in January, that D'Antoni wouldn't be replaced. I think the fact that he has quite a large contract doesn't help. It's all speculation at the end of the day and only management know what the fact of the matter was/is. Personally I don't really give a toss as long as the team continues to improve. I'm neither for or against D'Antoni. I just request that the coaching and playing staff respect the colours they represent, game in game out.
No joke: D'Antoni has Knicks thinking D
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
Or they rightly thought it would be illogical to fire a coach a few games before the end of the season and while the team are still in the race for a playoff spot. There's nothing to say that had the team gone on the losing 9/10 run in January, that D'Antoni wouldn't be replaced. I think the fact that he has quite a large contract doesn't help. It's all speculation at the end of the day and only management know what the fact of the matter was/is. Personally I don't really give a toss as long as the team continues to improve. I'm neither for or against D'Antoni. I just request that the coaching and playing staff respect the colours they represent, game in game out.
KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Banned
What are you talking about when you say "My supposition that MDA recognised the need for stronger D"? It has nothing to do with "me". MDA came out & stated the other night that PHX never won a ring because of D. He also made it known that NY is focusing on nothing but defense from here on out. I've always made it known our players are playing their heart's out. I've praised em. I never once said "MDA is the only reason for defensive improvements". I simply stated he's making EFFORTS to improve our defense. I also made it known Melo has been HUGE. Don't twist & put words in my mouth.
It doesn't matter how we played against MIA; because they were horrid on D the game before against MIL. You can't have "consistency" on D without having time to gel (offseason & C upgrades are needed). TD23 is the longest tenured NYK as a 2nd year player. Defense doesn't come "over night". You using MIA was a perfect example. Played horrid against MIL, played strong vs MIA, fell off the face of the earth during the 4th vs ORL.
It doesn't matter how we played against MIA; because they were horrid on D the game before against MIL. You can't have "consistency" on D without having time to gel (offseason & C upgrades are needed). TD23 is the longest tenured NYK as a 2nd year player. Defense doesn't come "over night". You using MIA was a perfect example. Played horrid against MIL, played strong vs MIA, fell off the face of the earth during the 4th vs ORL.
Red
TYPE-A
Once again, I'm tempered towards that "played strong" against Mia- we were down 16 early.
As for why the sudden change in approach, I theorize a combo of outisde pressure, new veteran talent (Melo, CB, Carter, Williams), acquiring JJ who at the least knows his role is defense, and (hopefully) a realization that there is more than one way to skin a cat by coach.
Win or lose, everyone is accountable, its a team effort.
KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Banned
TakMan, you do know the Knicks got off to a horrible slow start under MDA this year right? Still never lost his job lol. It's called REBUILDING MODE.
There still weren't any talks of MDA losing his job & MDA never lost his job before turning the ship & leading us to I believe 7 or 8 games above .500 @ one point. Then the trade rumors started to fly around town, players & even MDA all lost focus. We only went into the break 2 games above .500. Playoff bound.
You do know that the pre-trade team also lost either 5 or 6 in a row right?
No matter how slow we started, he was never in danger of "losing his job" and slow starting is exactly what this team did lol. Everyone not only knew, but also understood that A) Gallo was our only returning started from last year. B) It could take Amare a little time to adjust to New York & the Knicks & C) No one ever expected a serious playoff run with the likes of BOS, MIA, CHI, ORL & ATL as the real contenders. Fans prayed for an 8th seed & expected no more than a 6th.
There still weren't any talks of MDA losing his job & MDA never lost his job before turning the ship & leading us to I believe 7 or 8 games above .500 @ one point. Then the trade rumors started to fly around town, players & even MDA all lost focus. We only went into the break 2 games above .500. Playoff bound.
You do know that the pre-trade team also lost either 5 or 6 in a row right?
No matter how slow we started, he was never in danger of "losing his job" and slow starting is exactly what this team did lol. Everyone not only knew, but also understood that A) Gallo was our only returning started from last year. B) It could take Amare a little time to adjust to New York & the Knicks & C) No one ever expected a serious playoff run with the likes of BOS, MIA, CHI, ORL & ATL as the real contenders. Fans prayed for an 8th seed & expected no more than a 6th.
Right. Playing great defence requires time. Demonstrating hustle and applying effort does not require this. It requires determination and motivation, something which the Knicks neglected throughout the majority of this season. I don't really care what D'Antoni said about the lessons learned from his time at Phoenix. He also came out of most games declaring that there was no defensive issue with them. I used the Miami games (pre and post-trade) as examples of defensive effort to highlight the game selection factor. The players were selecting the games which they would apply effort. Following the recent abysmal streak of 9/10 games lost, the players again found themselves with their backs against the wall. The defensive improvements are as much down to their 'must win' understanding as the coach's newly found 'must defend' understanding. You never said that D'Antoni is the only reason the players are defending but you have- in previous posts- stated that he was the one that got Anthony to play defence. I think there's a lot more to Anthony's game adaptation than that. Though I like to think that D'Antoni is one of those reasons.
KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Banned
Now your trying to say these players played with a "lack of effort" this year? Give it up bro. Get real man.
Fields- Hustler & gringer.
TD23- Has played outstanding defense.
Chandler- Always played with defensive effort.
Felton- Always played with heart on D.
Melo- Dude is becoming a defensive LEADER!
Billups- He's a warrior & always gives it his all.
JJ- Sucks. But always plays with defensive energy & intensity.
Turiaf- You won't find more of a high energy type of player than Turiaf. All guys. Dude has over came a couple of open heart surgeries as a man. Dude plays with energy.
- Even Amare is trying. He's failing down low but he's trying. You don't lead your team in boards & rank top 10 in shots blocked (with no C help) unless your playing with effort.
During our losing streak... Some nights we looked TIRED. Can you blame them? Cant fault MDA. Playing 18 games in one month is extremely tough. The Knicks haven't played 18 games in one month since I believe 2001.
We haven't played with effort?
Fields- Hustler & gringer.
TD23- Has played outstanding defense.
Chandler- Always played with defensive effort.
Felton- Always played with heart on D.
Melo- Dude is becoming a defensive LEADER!
Billups- He's a warrior & always gives it his all.
JJ- Sucks. But always plays with defensive energy & intensity.
Turiaf- You won't find more of a high energy type of player than Turiaf. All guys. Dude has over came a couple of open heart surgeries as a man. Dude plays with energy.
- Even Amare is trying. He's failing down low but he's trying. You don't lead your team in boards & rank top 10 in shots blocked (with no C help) unless your playing with effort.
During our losing streak... Some nights we looked TIRED. Can you blame them? Cant fault MDA. Playing 18 games in one month is extremely tough. The Knicks haven't played 18 games in one month since I believe 2001.
We haven't played with effort?
Can you then explain why the Knicks concede more points than most other teams in the league. Remember this is a whole season review, not just the last four games. I'd say half the players you've put on that list were more or less awful defenders all season for us. I'll name them.
Felton, Chandler, Stoudamire.
Douglas has developed his defensive game very recently.
Billups isn't much on defence (he's too slow to guard other PG's, but you can add Carter to the list.
The numbers are there for everyone to see that the Knicks have been a defensive non-entity throughout the season. There has been a change of late, and it is gaining in consistency as well, but that wont detract the fact that our defensive displays were just non-existent for the largest part of the season.
KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Banned
Now you've become a hypocrite.
First you say inorder to have a great D you 1st need time, then you say the players aren't playing with effort or hustle; Then you talk about "production" after I proved we've played with effort all year.
I never said anything about "production". It doesn't matter how good or bad they are... Amare, Turiaf, JJ, TD23, Fields, Billups, Chandler, Carter, Melo & Shelden have all played with effort & energy under MDA when you said they didn't lol. Then after I proved your wrong, you talk about "production"?
First you ask me why the Knicks D allowed so much? Then you answered your own question? Funny. You just stated Amare, Felton & Chandler were AFWFUL defenders. You also stated Billups & Carter are old & slow. You forgot to mention the largest 5 hole & weakest Centers in the game though. You forgot to mention that the pre-trade team lacked the defensive PLAYERS to play good defense.
Don't sit there & say TD23 just "developed his defensive game". I'm an FSU fan. He won D-Awards.
First you say inorder to have a great D you 1st need time, then you say the players aren't playing with effort or hustle; Then you talk about "production" after I proved we've played with effort all year.
I never said anything about "production". It doesn't matter how good or bad they are... Amare, Turiaf, JJ, TD23, Fields, Billups, Chandler, Carter, Melo & Shelden have all played with effort & energy under MDA when you said they didn't lol. Then after I proved your wrong, you talk about "production"?
First you ask me why the Knicks D allowed so much? Then you answered your own question? Funny. You just stated Amare, Felton & Chandler were AFWFUL defenders. You also stated Billups & Carter are old & slow. You forgot to mention the largest 5 hole & weakest Centers in the game though. You forgot to mention that the pre-trade team lacked the defensive PLAYERS to play good defense.
Don't sit there & say TD23 just "developed his defensive game". I'm an FSU fan. He won D-Awards.
KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Banned
Why have the Knicks allowed more points than most other teams?
Nothing to do with a lack of effort. Like you stated: Amare, JJ, Chandler & Felton are all awful defensive players. Add Gallo to that list of awful defenders too. Billups & Carter are both old & slow. Douglas "just developed" his defensive skill set. Fields & Mozgov were & are both rookies. We have the worst group of "Centers" in the Eastern Conf & maybe the entire NBA other than Houston. We defend per 100 posestions more than any other team in the league. We lack rebounding ability. We're in rebuilding mode still. No time to GEL. No other team came into the season with only 1 returning starter (Gallo). No team in the league has 5 starters who weren't with their respected teams last year. Amare, Melo, Chandler, Felton, Billups & Gallo are all offensive players & awful on defense. You cant build a winning defense "over night" without the players to do so. We need a full ofseason of time, FA Center & draft to improve this defense.
Thats why.
Nothing to do with a lack of effort. Like you stated: Amare, JJ, Chandler & Felton are all awful defensive players. Add Gallo to that list of awful defenders too. Billups & Carter are both old & slow. Douglas "just developed" his defensive skill set. Fields & Mozgov were & are both rookies. We have the worst group of "Centers" in the Eastern Conf & maybe the entire NBA other than Houston. We defend per 100 posestions more than any other team in the league. We lack rebounding ability. We're in rebuilding mode still. No time to GEL. No other team came into the season with only 1 returning starter (Gallo). No team in the league has 5 starters who weren't with their respected teams last year. Amare, Melo, Chandler, Felton, Billups & Gallo are all offensive players & awful on defense. You cant build a winning defense "over night" without the players to do so. We need a full ofseason of time, FA Center & draft to improve this defense.
Thats why.
i sure O'antoni coming out talkin defense is a clear indication that he feels he butt is on the line....he has been know for his lack of a defensive strategy for many years.. there not one player who claims he ever helped them on defense...
so after this melo trade.. know is all about D.. BS....
him now saying that the reason why he didnt win in PHX is another example of it...he would of never made this statement earlier in the year...he lookin for a contract extension ....then im sure he will switch back... saying he tried it but it doesnt work...
he will be able to secure his money even if he is fired
but he can preach defense all day.. but not being able to implement is the issue...amare wont go off to the media like melo would.. and that was outlined in melos comment about his defensive strategy being too confusing.. something amare would never do....
but if im a owner and i got 185 mil invested in two players.. id eat O'antoni's last year of the contract and send him packin unless i can bring in a defensive coach to help him out...
but he would have to play out next year before getting any extension..
smokes
Huge Member
D'antoni preaching D has been happening since the before this season, especially at the start of this season. Although it does seem to be more than just words now.
Before the trade Felton, Stoudemire, Mozgov, Walker, and sometimes Chandler and Gallo sucked on D. At least they did not put in the same effort we've seen recently.
First game out after the trade against Miami everyone played pretty good D bar Stat. Then we played pretty pathetic D for most if not all of the streak where we lost 9 of 10. Now our D is back better than ever. It still needs some improvement but it's probably the best Knicks D (best D fullstop?) ever seen under MDA.
Sorry but the Knicks did not play much good D all season Chandler and Gallo were pretty good the rest were average or worse until the trade.
Before the trade Felton, Stoudemire, Mozgov, Walker, and sometimes Chandler and Gallo sucked on D. At least they did not put in the same effort we've seen recently.
First game out after the trade against Miami everyone played pretty good D bar Stat. Then we played pretty pathetic D for most if not all of the streak where we lost 9 of 10. Now our D is back better than ever. It still needs some improvement but it's probably the best Knicks D (best D fullstop?) ever seen under MDA.
Sorry but the Knicks did not play much good D all season Chandler and Gallo were pretty good the rest were average or worse until the trade.
qick questions...was felton better defensively on the bobcats?.. is felton and co better defensively on denver than they were on the knicks?...
smokes
Huge Member
Honestly the only times I saw Felton on the Bobcats was when he was burning our swiss cheese interior D in the 2009 season. I think Gallo and Chandler mostly did a good job defensively here they both took games off occasionally but most games they put in the effort, and they still do the same in Denver it just doesn't appear they take games off anymore.
and im sure if they wanted to remain a knick they would of put in more effort as a knick and didnt take games off.. that is a leadership issue...
KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Banned
Exactly Smokes. lmfao @ people saying Mike D'Antoni 'just started talking defense after the Melo addition" those are the same exact fans who are clueless about the coach & talk out of their ass to "try" & make false points. It's laughable.
Your 100% correct Smokes & like I've been saying; MDA has been stressing & talking the importance of defense before the season even started. You can't coach a top defense without the players who can make it work. Now that we have some defensive players such as Fields, TD23, Carter, Billups (not what he once was), Carter & Carmelo Anthony (Top 5 defensive SF when focused) you're starting to see better play from the defense. Still a long ways to go inorder to crack the top 10-15 though. Productive Center, rebounding ability & an offseason of hard practice & gelling time.
I'm done with this thread. Even when MDA starts to focus on defense, coach killers refuse to give credit, and instead? Make false remarks saying "he never talked D before Melo". He wants to win & improve.
Your 100% correct Smokes & like I've been saying; MDA has been stressing & talking the importance of defense before the season even started. You can't coach a top defense without the players who can make it work. Now that we have some defensive players such as Fields, TD23, Carter, Billups (not what he once was), Carter & Carmelo Anthony (Top 5 defensive SF when focused) you're starting to see better play from the defense. Still a long ways to go inorder to crack the top 10-15 though. Productive Center, rebounding ability & an offseason of hard practice & gelling time.
I'm done with this thread. Even when MDA starts to focus on defense, coach killers refuse to give credit, and instead? Make false remarks saying "he never talked D before Melo". He wants to win & improve.
JeffVanGundyPLEASE!
Benchwarmer
MDA admitting his faults should send smoke signal to most... he knows his career with the knicks is on the line or else he would of not come out and critiqued his PHX days as well as his early struggles with the knicks and including admitting that defense will win championships its very refreshing to hear but until i can tangibly see it they are just words to me
Im sure players such as billups and carmelo have emphasized defense in MDA's ear privately and notebly publicly...anyone that pays attention to most mello interviews notices thats he often critiques the coaches defensive schemes and has since gone out of his way to prove that he himself can play defense as opposed to what many commentators paint him out to be because that what he knew his team needed in the midst of a 6 game losing streak
Lord knows we need this guy to at least bring in somebody to sure up the defense/ bring in more players and next year we will be contenders
As of this year the 2011 playoffs will be a measuring stick for MDA; he can definitely feel the pressure and the heat coming in his direction. If he brings this defensive strategy that he speaks of into the playoff and wins a game or two he is safe but if we are safe don't expect him to be back especially with reports of the knicks wanting to "throw" money at Phil Jackson
Lastly why does it always takes a fight or flight mentality for someone to start changing their ways?? I wish the knicks had this same consistency maybe MDA will convince me come playoff time but im a believer in actions so we shall see.....
Im sure players such as billups and carmelo have emphasized defense in MDA's ear privately and notebly publicly...anyone that pays attention to most mello interviews notices thats he often critiques the coaches defensive schemes and has since gone out of his way to prove that he himself can play defense as opposed to what many commentators paint him out to be because that what he knew his team needed in the midst of a 6 game losing streak
Lord knows we need this guy to at least bring in somebody to sure up the defense/ bring in more players and next year we will be contenders
As of this year the 2011 playoffs will be a measuring stick for MDA; he can definitely feel the pressure and the heat coming in his direction. If he brings this defensive strategy that he speaks of into the playoff and wins a game or two he is safe but if we are safe don't expect him to be back especially with reports of the knicks wanting to "throw" money at Phil Jackson
Lastly why does it always takes a fight or flight mentality for someone to start changing their ways?? I wish the knicks had this same consistency maybe MDA will convince me come playoff time but im a believer in actions so we shall see.....
MusketeerX
Rotation player
+1. We almost blew that game to the Sixers last night because our defense faltered... again...
Maybe we need more time, but MDA is not the guy to make us a consistently great defensive team... and we need to better than just good. We need to be GREAT.
Top 10. Preferably top 7. We won't win a ring without it. MDA's whole career, including this season have shown he is not that guy. We need a half court offensive coach with a defensive mindset.
I'd say the Philly near saga was more to do with the collapse of our offence rather than a defensive issue. I'm not saying that the 27 points the Knicks conceded during the 4th were a show of good defence, I'm just saying they shouldn't be enough to bring a team back into the game when they are down 13 points in the 3rd. All the Knicks needed to do was continue to score their average 25+ points per quarter and no one would have mentioned the defence all game. Unfortunately what was most concerning about Wednesday was the team's inability to emulate their very decent all round display, after Billups was removed from the game. I'm hoping it was just a mental block rather than a lack of organisational quality, which would indicate the team's dependence on only one player to run the plays.
even if he starting talkin defense at the begining of the year.. he is still a rookie at it... and not nowhere he needs to be from a strategy standpoint...
just cause u preach.. doesnt mean u can teach...or your good at what your preaching.. epecially if you been doing it for only 6 months