Z-Bo and Jamal

Just answer one simple question, which you still haven't done:

Pick your coach. Any coach you want. Does Marbury, Crawford and Zach Randolph with no draft picks and no ability to add meaningful free agents ever win a title?

Let me expand:

The point being, assuming you can even assemble a rational thought or know the first thing about the NBA, the answer is no. Marbury can't find an NBA job now, Crawford is a 6th man on the 5th best team in the East, Z-Bo is thriving (though Memphis got blown out last night) with a legit center on his side. If the answer is "No", then the way to get to what you, I and everyone else wants is to get to was to rebuild. And the way to rebuild was to get under the cap, and not be strained by exorbitant salaries and have no ability to maneuver the roster to create a winner.

(Also, if you actually read that "The Oatmeal" site I linked, you wouldn't say I was proving your point. Because it eviscerated your line of thinking.)

KBlack25 said:

Just answer one simple question, which you still haven't done:

Pick your coach. Any coach you want. Does Marbury, Crawford and Zach Randolph with no draft picks and no ability to add meaningful free agents ever win a title?

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Along with Curry, Lee, Nate, Chandler, Al Harrington, and others...maybe. That's if they were ever giving enough time to gel.

Real NY Baller said:

Along with Curry, Lee, Nate, Chandler, and others...maybe. That's if they were ever giving enough time to gel.

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You do realize Curry was an injury risk before the extension (the heart issues), Nate saw no significant playoff time on the Celtics and is not seeing any on the Thunder, Marbury can't find a job and Crawford is the 6th man on the 5th best team in the East, right?

If you REALLY believe that, then you know less about basketball than I thought possible for someone who knows how to work a keyboard.

That team never wins a title, everyone can see that.

KBlack25 said:

You do realize Curry was an injury risk before the extension (the heart issues), Nate saw no significant playoff time on the Celtics and is not seeing any on the Thunder, Marbury can't find a job and Crawford is the 6th man on the 5th best team in the East, right?

If you REALLY believe that, then you know less about basketball than I thought possible for someone who knows how to work a keyboard.

That team never wins a title, everyone can see that.

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It's call chemistry, some of these guys you speak of are new to their respected teams but are still great contributors...some in the playoffs.

I'll finish this discussion a little later. I have something to attend to...

Real NY Baller said:

It's call chemistry, some of these guys you speak of are new to their respected teams but are still great contributors...some in the playoffs.

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"Some" of the guys I mentioned are great contributors?

By my count - there's one: Jamal. Again, the 6th man on the 5th best team in the East - not the #1 or #2 option as he would have been here).

ZBo (who I didn't mention in my prior post) thrives because he has a REAL center along side of him. David Lee is not a real center; Eddy Curry is a bad, slow, oft-injured center and we would have had no ability to add any center worth his salt, and definitely not someone as good as Gasol.

Further, you bitch and moan on about chemistry and giving guys time to gel. Meanwhile, D'Antoni has had a couple of months to put together an entirely new team, and you want him out...so which is it: Do they need time to gel, or does MDA need to get out regardless of how long the team has to gel together? Or are you just making up your opinion as you go along?

KingStarbury3 said:

*Fixed

It was Isiah that made the trade for Starbury

Antoni never had any interest in playing Starbury and put Donnie G in an awkward situation.

Real NY Baller has somewhat of a point, Dantoni is somewhat stubborn and only wants players that fit his system. Even if there wasnt no 2010, I believe that Dantoni woulda at least wanted ZBo gone but probably not crawford

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*fixed*????? I don't know what that means but I meant what I said in my original post. You can't have your so-called team leader and highest paid player thinking that VASALINE is a staple part of a human's diet.

I knew Steph was on his way out when D'ant was hired because the first thing D'ant did when he got to Phoenix was give Steph his walking papers. Even D'ant knew Steph was an uncoachable headcase and didn't want to deal with him. When your PG is an idiot, your team is fundementally flawed no matter what you put around him because your PG is your coach on the floor. Fish stink from the head.....

Bottomline is Jamal and Z-bo ended up in places that used their respective talents to their fullest potential and I am happy for both players. While most on this board were hating, I though Jamal was team MVP that 23 win season for trying to carry the team down the stretch after "Starbury" quit on us.

KBlack25 said:

"Some" of the guys I mentioned are great contributors?

By my count - there's one: Jamal. Again, the 6th man on the 5th best team in the East - not the #1 or #2 option as he would have been here).

ZBo (who I didn't mention in my prior post) thrives because he has a REAL center along side of him. David Lee is not a real center; Eddy Curry is a bad, slow, oft-injured center and we would have had no ability to add any center worth his salt, and definitely not someone as good as Gasol.

Further, you bitch and moan on about chemistry and giving guys time to gel. Meanwhile, D'Antoni has had a couple of months to put together an entirely new team, and you want him out...so which is it: Do they need time to gel, or does MDA need to get out regardless of how long the team has to gel together? Or are you just making up your opinion as you go along?

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Jamal may be coming off the bench, but leads the Hawks in scoring averaging over 20+ off the bench and is 1/1A option in the final 2 minutes of the game.

jimkcchief88 said:

Jamal may be coming off the bench, but leads the Hawks in scoring averaging over 20+ off the bench and is 1/1A option in the final 2 minutes of the game.

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We all know Crawford can score in bunches - but isn't that a D'Antoni-style player? Doesn't that just show it was about the $, not the personnel? Also, you have to attribute some of Jamal success to the fact that he is playing against either tired defenders who were guarding Joe Johnson all day, or just worse players and defenses can't really key in on him because of how athletic Atlanta is.

If you look at his "clutch" stats (4th quarter or OT neither team ahead by more than 5) - he settles for jumpers 83% of the time...Isn't that a D'Antoni player (from people who want to bash MDA)?

Doesn't Jamal Crawford show it was about the $ and not the personnel when the decision to move him was made?

jimkcchief88 said:

*fixed*????? I don't know what that means but I meant what I said in my original post. You can't have your so-called team leader and highest paid player thinking that VASALINE is a staple part of a human's diet.

I knew Steph was on his way out when D'ant was hired because the first thing D'ant did when he got to Phoenix was give Steph his walking papers. Even D'ant knew Steph was an uncoachable headcase and didn't want to deal with him. When your PG is an idiot, your team is fundementally flawed no matter what you put around him because your PG is your coach on the floor. Fish stink from the head.....

Bottomline is Jamal and Z-bo ended up in places that used their respective talents to their fullest potential and I am happy for both players. While most on this board were hating, I though Jamal was team MVP that 23 win season for trying to carry the team down the stretch after "Starbury" quit on us.

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No one gave u permission to speak, u already know what it is clown

http://www.u-mad.org/haterz.html

Kblack, ur 2 obvi mayne...

Some" of the guys I mentioned are great contributors?

yes, "re-quote" if coached well with the confidence of knowing they will be around learning each others tendencies...maybe, it was a plan that really didn't get the chance to manifest, hopefully we don't blow it again...D'Ant (imhSo) dosen't fit the bill.

By my count - there's one: Jamal. Again, the 6th man on the 5th best team in the East - not the #1 or #2 option as he would have been here).

If he starts or not...he's still ballin very well, give him his just due. ATL gave him a shot, they had time to gel, now look at them....look at us.

It's chemistry...Why you don't think the coach can be the reason for our teams bad chemistry is beyound me...

ZBo (who I didn't mention in my prior post) thrives because he has a REAL center along side of him. David Lee is not a real center; Eddy Curry is a bad, slow, oft-injured center and we would have had no ability to add any center worth his salt, and definitely not someone as good as Gasol.

says you...and maybe a few others? that clic (with others) could have done damage if they were inspired....clearly they wasn't, right? why? injuries are not always what they seem...

Further, you bitch and moan on about chemistry and giving guys time to gel.

Correction, check the mirror, bud.... and re-read to clarify just where your thong started to show. the only problems came from the uncalled for disrespect. you know... the little bitch moves.

and fMeanwhile, D'Antoni has had a couple of months to put together an entirely new team, and you want him out...so which is it:

I passed out those memo's plenty of times, in many threads, you know my stance...


Do they need time to gel, or does MDA need to get out regardless of how long the team has to gel together?

I don't trust his ability to coach this team. He's wasting these dudes talents and his stubborn ways are detrimental to our success, knowingly or not. He totally suxx on D and wears out his men for that very same reason. Almost any (defensive) coach can shine with unit. D'ant won't change, he's too set in his rusty old ways...

making up your opinion as you go along?

lol, You really are mad? can't be serious, right?...yeah, I see you trying to pull the ol' switcharoo...again. I don't see where I'm bitching at all...you still imagining things, uh?

a centre changes everything. a defensive centre makes up for pf's with average to bad defense. if your pf is playing defense, who helps amare? surely not someone smaller than him. deandre jordan and jerome jordan next year, twin towers lol

Agree

Toons said:

a centre changes everything. a defensive centre makes up for pf's with average to bad defense. if your pf is playing defense, who helps amare? surely not someone smaller than him. deandre jordan and jerome jordan next year, twin towers lol

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Would be nice to just get one of those guys.
As for Zbo and Crawford... Cant cry over Spilt milk. They are doing great in their careers now, good luck to them. It just was not the right timing when we had them. We knew what we had and lee but had to let him go to make a run at Lebron. So yes, if we had them all now together along with amare and Melo. Crazy good team. I see Galo going on to become a great player. Also feton and Chandler good in their own right and will get better. but I like where we are now and i think with a few more pieces, who knows. I dont see how with the way things are now for us with cap space how we sign either Dwight or Paul, but i think we add one of them and few key role players we will be set up to win a few titles

KBlack25 said:

You do realize Curry was an injury risk before the extension (the heart issues), Nate saw no significant playoff time on the Celtics and is not seeing any on the Thunder, Marbury can't find a job and Crawford is the 6th man on the 5th best team in the East, right?

If you REALLY believe that, then you know less about basketball than I thought possible for someone who knows how to work a keyboard.

That team never wins a title, everyone can see that.

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To be fair Nate did have one or two big games in the post-season last year. And Marbury was offered by the Celtics last year, but decided to leave for China.

Anyway, yeah, I don't see that team winning a championship.

OKC choked so hard yesterday. Btw we should trade for Mayo. Mayo can play SG and PG and he's a pretty good defender. He guarded Westbrook pretty well yesterday. Although i love TD, i think we should trade him for Mayo.

AmareForPresident said:

OKC choked so hard yesterday. Btw we should trade for Mayo. Mayo can play SG and PG and he's a pretty good defender. He guarded Westbrook pretty well yesterday. Although i love TD, i think we should trade him for Mayo.

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I think we should trade Fields for Mayo!

KingStarbury3 said:

I could see if we had another good point guard on the team, I'd be willing to buy into the "Marbury is a cancer" argument but Chris Fukkin Duhon?

I honestly think the bigger cancers on that team that shoulda been the primary targets for Walsh and Dant to get rid of were QRich, Jerome James, Curry, and Jeffries. I gotta say Crawford too, at that time he was less efficient then he is now, a turnover prone chucker that played zero defense. Z-Bo is the one guy that raises questions with me. I just looked at his stats. We were winning games and he was averaging a career high in rebounds. That would be my biggest issue with Walsh is i was anti-Walsh, not gettin more for ZBo even if the deal was mostly made to clear cap space which it was. Zbo for Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley? hboy: Shoulda got a 1st round pick too

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Great Post. I agree. People kept making excuses whenever Walsh traded players for garbage. I understand he was trying to clear capspace, but trading Zach Randolph for Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley was just a horrible trade. And so was the 2 first round picks and Jared Jeffries for washed up Tracy McGrady trade.

I like the players the Knicks have now, but the Knicks need a defensive minded coach, and I think the Knicks really messed up in the '08 and '09 draft.

abcd said:

Great Post. I agree. People kept making excuses whenever Walsh traded players for garbage. I understand he was trying to clear capspace, but trading Zach Randolph for Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley was just a horrible trade. And so was the 2 first round picks and Jared Jeffries for washed up Tracy McGrady trade.

I like the players the Knicks have now, but the Knicks need a defensive minded coach, and I think the Knicks really messed up in the '08 and '09 draft.

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But the only reason the Knicks HAVE the players they have now is BECAUSE Walsh cleared cap room.

I understand the sentiment, talent wise we got burned short-term trading Zach for Tim Thomas (who I hate more than any player in the league) and Mobley...and hated the swapping first rounders (though it didn't matter) and the pick next year for McGraady to clear room.

But long-term we benefitted talent wise BECAUSE we cleared room.

Sprewell-Houston said:

I think we should trade Fields for Mayo!

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LOL why would Memphis EVER do that?

KBlack25 said:

But the only reason the Knicks HAVE the players they have now is BECAUSE Walsh cleared cap room.

I understand the sentiment, talent wise we got burned short-term trading Zach for Tim Thomas (who I hate more than any player in the league) and Mobley...and hated the swapping first rounders (though it didn't matter) and the pick next year for McGraady to clear room.

But long-term we benefitted talent wise BECAUSE we cleared room.

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Like Kingstarbury said, Walsh targeted the wrong players.

The Knicks would have still gotten the capspace they needed, had they got rid of Quentin Richardson, Jerome James, Jared Jeffries, and Eddy Curry. Those guys alone combined for 33 million dollars in contracts. Randolph and Crawford combined for 20 million dollars in contracts.

If you notice, none of the above players mentioned are on the team. Walsh managed to trade Jerome James, Quentin Richardson, and Jared Jeffries(25 million dollars worth of garbage). So that means Walsh definitely could have gotten rid of those guys and kept ZBo.

Walsh just bought into what the media said and assumed he was a cancer. He made a mistake.

I like some of the things Walsh has done, but a lot of his decisions are questionable.
For ex:
Drafting Gallinari in '08 over Brook Lopez and Roy Hibbert. The Knicks still don't have a center.
Drafting Jordan Hill over Brandon Jennings.
Trading 2 first round picks for Tracy McGrady(washed up edition).
Trading Randolph for nothing, instead of being patient and getting rid of Quentin Richardson and Jerome James instead(which he managed to do later on anyways).