Z-Bo and Jamal

KBlack25

Starter
Like Kingstarbury said, Walsh targeted the wrong players.

The Knicks would have still got the capspace they needed, had they got rid of Quentin Richardson, Jerome James, Jared Jeffries, and Eddy Curry. Those guys alone combined for 33 million dollars in contracts. Randolph and Crawford combined for 22 million dollars in contracts.

Understood - but unfortunately Eddy was pretty untradeable...nobody was taking on TWO years of 11 million per for nothing.
 

Red

TYPE-A
Great Post. I agree. People kept making excuses whenever Walsh traded players for garbage. I understand he was trying to clear capspace, but trading Zach Randolph for Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley was just a horrible trade. And so was the 2 first round picks and Jared Jeffries for washed up Tracy McGrady trade.

I like the players the Knicks have now, but the Knicks need a defensive minded coach, and I think the Knicks really messed up in the '08 and '09 draft.

Why blame Walsh?

It was clear we had a perfect replacement for Z-Bo's production

in David Lee.

Lee is just as productive, cheaper, and abidextrous...

Says the casual fan!:thumbsup:



We knew better.
 

KBlack25

Starter
Why blame Walsh?

It was clear we had a perfect replacement for Z-Bo's production

in David Lee.

Lee is just as productive, cheaper, and abidextrous...

Says the casual fan!:thumbsup:



We knew better.

The replacement for ZBo was a free agent, who we could acquire by letting him go.

His name is Amare Stoudemire.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
The replacement for ZBo was a free agent, who we could acquire by letting him go.

His name is Amare Stoudemire.

The Knicks had to spend 100 million dollars to get Stoudemire. Randolph only cost the Grizzlies 66 million dollars.

And the 2010 plan was all about greed. Walsh wanted to instantly buy a championship. He could have kept the best players on the Knicks and saved up for 1 max contract instead of 2.
 

Red

TYPE-A
The replacement for ZBo was a free agent, who we could acquire by letting him go.

His name is Amare Stoudemire.

Right, because Walsh knew Stat would be available 2years later. Uh huh.

It had nothing to do with the thought that Lee could hold things down.

Sometimes, I don't even know why I bother.
 

KBlack25

Starter
Right, because Walsh knew Stat would be available 2years later. Uh huh.

It had nothing to do with the thought that Lee could hold things down.

Sometimes, I don't even know why I bother.

STAT was in the 2010 class - as was LeBron, Bosh, Wade, Boozer, Dirk, Allen, Shaq - the goal was always to get under the cap BEFORE the 2010 offseason for the stated purpose of having cards to play in the 2010 offseason. In fact, Walsh said coming in his goal was to get under the cap...I don't know why you bother arguing that his goal was not to get under the cap.

His stated goal coming in was to gain back cap flexibility that Isiah had lost us.

abcd said:
The Knicks had to spend 100 million dollars to get Stoudemire. Randolph only cost the Grizzlies 66 million dollars.

And the 2010 plan was all about greed. Walsh wanted to instantly buy a championship. He could have kept the best players on the Knicks and saved up for 1 max contract instead of 2.

No he couldn't have done that...mostly b/c most of the guys you mention were essentially untradeable before the 2010 offseason.

Randolph costs less because he isn't as good. I'm not saying Randolph is bad - but the fact is Randolph isn't a gamechanger to the extent Amare is. Do you think that this team would have done as well if you replace Amare with ZBo early in the year, when STAT carried this entire team on his back? Hell, would Carmelo have demanded to come here to play with ZBo?

Yes, it would have been nice to dump Curry instead of Randolph. But nobody was going to take on Curry b/c it was essentially lost money on a non-expiring deal. We lost the best players on our team because (surprise!) they were the best players on the team. Teams aren't just going to take on OUR shitty contracts for no reason...teams WERE willing to take on extended deals for Z-Bo and Crawford BECAUSE they were good...
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
No he couldn't have done that...mostly b/c most of the guys you mention were essentially untradeable before the 2010 offseason.

Randolph costs less because he isn't as good. I'm not saying Randolph is bad - but the fact is Randolph isn't a gamechanger to the extent Amare is. Do you think that this team would have done as well if you replace Amare with ZBo early in the year, when STAT carried this entire team on his back? Hell, would Carmelo have demanded to come here to play with ZBo?

That's not true. Walsh got rid of Quentin Richardson, Jerome James and Jared Jeffries before the 2010 offseason. That's 25 million dollars off the books.

It's not all about getting big names. It's about building chemistry between players.

Zach Randolph, Wilson Chandler, and Jamal Crawford had experience on the Knicks. They knew what was expected of them.

Passing up on Brook Lopez, Roy Hibbert, and Brandon Jennings is inexcusable.

The Knicks could have still signed another Max contract, had they kept Randolph. All they had to do was dump Quentin Richardson, Jerome James, and Jared Jeffries which they were able to do shortly after dumping Randolph for crumbs.

Being that Walsh was able to dump Quentin Richardson, Jerome James, and Jared Jeffries PRIOR to 2010, that shows Walsh just needed to be patient and the Knicks could have had a good core of players who had experience playing together, instead of having to start from scratch like how they're doing now.

I like Stoudemire, Anthony, and Billups, but this team is built with guys who barely know each other and are going to have to spend AT LEAST another 2 years together before they can legitimately be contenders. And that is a big if, considering Stoudemire has bad knees and might not even make it that long.
 

KBlack25

Starter
But the only reason we traded Jerome James is b/c we also gave the Bulls Tim Thomas, who we traded for Z-Bo...

I'm not saying Z-Bo is bad, quite the opposite - but the fact is to be major players in 2010 he unfortunately needed to go.

We wouldn't have STAT and Melo if we kept Crawford and ZBo...

And can we please PLEASE get off the Brook Lopez hype...I know you have been a fan of him, but the fact is he is a 7 footer that refuses to rebound, he's not that good - 6 rebounds per game in 35 minutes per game for a 7 foot CENTER is embarssing. Hibbert I like, but he started getting much better this year post-being-diagnosed-with-asthma and cutting down his body fat by an insane amount, he was slow up and down the court out of college and I think Walsh feared Curry 2.0.

Not that any of that would matter - Lopez, Hibbert or Jennings would be Nuggets now anyway.

And I'm not doubting Walsh got a little overzealous - but he came here with the intent in mind to get under the cap and maintain flexibility. Honestly, if teams weren't willing to just give Chicago and Miami room under the cap for no reason, we would have stood a better shot at Wade and James - unfortunately at the draft it was obvious teams were all too eager to take Chicago and Miami's players and contracts for no reason...but this was well after the 2010 game was under way.
 
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abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
But the only reason we traded Jerome James is b/c we also gave the Bulls Tim Thomas, who we traded for Z-Bo...

That's not the case. The Bulls didn't want Tim Thomas. He was washed up at that point. They just wanted James' expring contract.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
But the only reason we traded Jerome James is b/c we also gave the Bulls Tim Thomas, who we traded for Z-Bo...

I'm not saying Z-Bo is bad, quite the opposite - but the fact is to be major players in 2010 he unfortunately needed to go.

We wouldn't have STAT and Melo if we kept Crawford and ZBo...

And can we please PLEASE get off the Brook Lopez hype...I know you have been a fan of him, but the fact is he is a 7 footer that refuses to rebound, he's not that good - 6 rebounds per game in 35 minutes per game for a 7 foot CENTER is embarssing. Hibbert I like, but he started getting much better this year post-being-diagnosed-with-asthma and cutting down his body fat by an insane amount, he was slow up and down the court out of college and I think Walsh feared Curry 2.0.

If the KNicks kept ZBO and Crawford and dumped Quentin Richardson, Jerome James, and Jared Jeffries(which they did) then they would have had the capspace to sign either Stoudemire or Anthony. The Knicks wouldn't have needed both anyway.

I saw Brook Lopez this season, because I have Yes! Network.
He is a future all star. Don't just look at boxscores and stats. If you watch the guy play, he has skills. He is the most skilled post up center in the NBA. His shotblocking is good. His rebounding did drop, but that had a lot to do with his injury plus Humphries was grabbing almost 12 boards per game.
 

KBlack25

Starter
That's not the case. The Bulls didn't want Tim Thomas. He was washed up at that point. They just wanted James' expring contract.

I mean - he played 14 minutes per game the rest of the way in Chicago and then bought him out...

And James wasn't expiring - he was scheduled to make $6 million the next year but he could be bought out...

"Thomas and James each are scheduled to make more than $6 million next season, but James could be bought out."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3919012
 

KBlack25

Starter
If the KNicks kept ZBO and Crawford and dumped Quentin Richardson, Jerome James, and Jared Jeffries(which they did) then they would have had the capspace to sign either Stoudemire or Anthony. The Knicks wouldn't have needed both anyway.

I saw Brook Lopez this season, because I have Yes! Network.
He is a future all star. Don't just look at boxscores and stats. If you watch the guy play, he has skills. He is the most skilled post up center in the NBA. His shotblocking is good. His rebounding did drop, but that had a lot to do with his injury plus Humphries was grabbing almost 12 boards per game.

I watched him play too.

To be honest, I never saw the allure like you did. Fact is, when rebounding it looked to me like he didn't care, seemed disinterested...That's what I saw. It COULD have been he was stressed about the Melo stuff, but honestly, to me he looks soft. I need, from my center (personal opinion) somebody that is gritty and willing to go after every rebound.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
I watched him play too.

To be honest, I never saw the allure like you did. Fact is, when rebounding it looked to me like he didn't care, seemed disinterested...That's what I saw. It COULD have been he was stressed about the Melo stuff, but honestly, to me he looks soft. I need, from my center (personal opinion) somebody that is gritty and willing to go after every rebound.

The Knicks have Jared Jeffries and Ronny Turiaf at center.

Brook Lopez has a jump shot, hook shot, drop step, turn around, and he can drive to the basket. He can also make free throws(rare for a center).

He can rebound. I just think he had an off year, because of a shoulder injury. He's not a big leaper, so he depends on his arms to grab rebounds. Kind of like Zach Randolph. His rebounding will go up this year. And he's a good shotblocker who can contest shots at key moments.
 

KBlack25

Starter
The Knicks have Jared Jeffries and Ronny Turiaf at center.

Brook Lopez has a jump shot, hook shot, drop step, turn around, and he can drive to the basket. He can also make free throws(rare for a center).

He can rebound. I just think he had an off year, because of a shoulder injury. He's not a big leaper, so he depends on his arms to grab rebounds. Kind of like Zach Randolph. His rebounding will go up this year. And he's a good shotblocker who can contest shots at key moments.

Nobody is doubting that the Knicks centers are terrible.

To be honest, if I had a choice, I'm taking Roy Hibbert over Lopez on THIS team.
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
We all know Crawford can score in bunches - but isn't that a D'Antoni-style player? Doesn't that just show it was about the $, not the personnel? Also, you have to attribute some of Jamal success to the fact that he is playing against either tired defenders who were guarding Joe Johnson all day, or just worse players and defenses can't really key in on him because of how athletic Atlanta is.

If you look at his "clutch" stats (4th quarter or OT neither team ahead by more than 5) - he settles for jumpers 83% of the time...Isn't that a D'Antoni player (from people who want to bash MDA)?

Doesn't Jamal Crawford show it was about the $ and not the personnel when the decision to move him was made?

We all know Jamal, Z-bo and anybody else from that era Knicks was moved for cap space. Tell us something new.... I thought this thread was about why the KNICKS didn't have MORE sucess while both players WERE on our roster.....
 

skisloper

Starter
You Pro-Randolph fans are such bandwagoners...

When he was with the Knicks his defense sucked. He would miss a shot or not get a call and sit there complaining rather then hustle back on defense...

The guy has definetly grown up and matured into a star player.....But thats not who he was with the Knicks.....

He is the same guy who took a leave of absence from the Clippers due to a death and then was shown partying in a strip club that night ( not a bad way to grieve )..

Then a buddy of his got busted for dealing weed....

NY may have been too much for him...


why is the focus on always looking back.....we are sitting pretty now....

we have 3 all-stars to start the season.....


LA could have traded Bynum for Melo....safe bet they wished they do....

Nobody has a crystal ball....

If we can get lucky and fins ourselves a bigman for cheap or if Jordan learned enough in Europe to be a player we will enough money to go after Paul or use it on 2 solid players....

we are 2 players away from a title team and we are finally in a $$$ position to make this happen....

too many what if's......those days are over...

Look where we are Today.
 

KBlack25

Starter
We all know Jamal, Z-bo and anybody else from that era Knicks was moved for cap space. Tell us something new.... I thought this thread was about why the KNICKS didn't have MORE sucess while both players WERE on our roster.....

If you read this thread, you will see that that isn't true. Some people on here are convinced they were moved for other reasons.
 

KingCharles34

All Star
I don't need permission to speak because I am a GROWN-ASS MAN. I can talk... BTW how is Starbury's career going NOW??? Like I told you Starbury nut-lickers back then when the Knicks quit paying him, Steph's career was OVER. (Best Charles Barley voice) "I maybee, I maybee, I maybee wrong, but I doubt it....
This thread for grown folks only, close your mouth faggit

You Pro-Randolph fans are such bandwagoners...

When he was with the Knicks his defense sucked. He would miss a shot or not get a call and sit there complaining rather then hustle back on defense...

The guy has definetly grown up and matured into a star player.....But thats not who he was with the Knicks.....

He is the same guy who took a leave of absence from the Clippers due to a death and then was shown partying in a strip club that night ( not a bad way to grieve )..

Then a buddy of his got busted for dealing weed....

NY may have been too much for him...


why is the focus on always looking back.....we are sitting pretty now....

we have 3 all-stars to start the season.....


LA could have traded Bynum for Melo....safe bet they wished they do....

Nobody has a crystal ball....

If we can get lucky and fins ourselves a bigman for cheap or if Jordan learned enough in Europe to be a player we will enough money to go after Paul or use it on 2 solid players....

we are 2 players away from a title team and we are finally in a $$$ position to make this happen....

too many what if's......those days are over...

Look where we are Today.

eat a dikk lame

Anyone familiar with basketball could see Z-Bo's talent with us. He was a good player on a bad team. He is the type of player that needs a good defensive center next to him but so is Dirk Nowitzki, is he a bad player?

I could give a fukk less if his homie gets busted for sellin weed, whats that got to do with him and how good of a basketball player he is?

I am happy with the current Knicks team but i dont see anything wrong with me or anyone else on here being a Z-Bo fan, as long as we got your permission boss :rolleyes:
 

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
Z-Bo was a decent player with us. It seems as if everyone thinks he's suddenly gotten tons better, but that's not true...his defensive weaknesses have just been covered up by the fact that he has Marc Gasol guarding the paint next to him.

Here's the thing - without dumping Z-Bo for cap space we probably don't get Amar'e...I know Z-Bo seems pretty good right now, but do you seriously think that anybody from 2 years ago would rather have Z-Bo instead of Amar'e Stoudemire? I doubt it.
 
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