You call it hyperbole. I call it knowing what I'm talking about. And yes I did change the argument up as I was talking about Amare not really being a max player.
I think Trill is really on point w his recent post about you. You don't want us to get the great PG because you know it will propel us to unseen heights w this coach and his system. W Melo on this team there's no telling how far we could as MDA has never had a swingman of his caliber.
You're just a hater Red. Plain and simple.
LMAO....!:boohoo:
Well with Amar'e and Melo, he wouldn't need to do as much.
AND, aside from Suns fans, I don't remember anyone aside from me that has noticed he isn't a bad defender now. He's decent or solid. In professional wrestling, although not a sport, they do crazy stunts a lot, and guys in their 40s (recently retired Shawn Michaels) was/are still doing amazingly athletic, and painful, stunts, many years after a BACK injury that people, including himself, thought ended his career. So, while it has yet to be proven that somebody who has played as long as Nash, aside from Jordan, and that age can still be fast enough and be in great condition, we're in a day and age where guys like Grant Hill can play great on a consistent basis.
The points made in this thread that you made, rono, along with nuckles and maybe others is good about the available centers. We have to attempt to get Dalembert though imo. With Nash, he would give us a chance to spend more than we have now on a center for at least two years while STILL having Turiaf.
That Phoenix medical staff, you gotta love them, changing perspective on things...
Any wonder why athletes of today have seemed to extend their shelf life?
it's called...
HGH
or possibly stem cell treatment.
I think it speaks as much about Nash's own work ethic as it does Phoenix's conditioning squad but I see your point.
My point was we need roleplayers. As beautiful as it would be to think that tons of players would take the minimum to play in NY, the reality is that if you maxed our our cap space by signing CP3, we'd be left with Kwame Brown-level players - fringe players trying to win a championship before they lose their game completely. We don't have any draft picks - let's be real, Jorts is never going to be that good, and if we get any better than we are right now our picks are going to be later picks and we all know how hard it is to get a big man later in the draft - hell, in this day and age, it's impossible to get a decent big man ANYWHERE in the draft.
And some folks here have gotten so pissed at the idea of signing Kwame as it is that there's no real reason to think we could make a strong title run with him as our center. The Mavericks had Tyson Chandler, the Lakers had Pau and Bynum, the Celtics had Garnett, the Spurs had Duncan/Robinson, the Lakers and Heat had Shaq, the Pistons had Ben Wallace...it goes on. We desperately need a center if we want to win.
That being said the best solution is to sign Dwight Howard and then we've got not only the most dominant big man in the game but two of the game's elite scorers. If we have D12, Melo, and Amar'e, then we could throw Shumpert and Fields at PG/SG and probably win a championship.
Love this post.:thumbsup:
The reality is...
1. If we are going to target anyone (which already was a mistake) there is someone better... D Howard, and no on is clamoring for him like CP3 (because they are gassed again regarding a wedding toast and believe D12 doesn't want to be here, although they claim players want to be here, and for cheap... go figure)
2. No quality big = no chip. We aren't into making horizontal moves.
I agree. Let's not forget that the Hornets made it as far as they did because they had DEFENSE.
We need Amar'e to work on his defense so he can hold his own against the likes of Pau Gasol and other high-level PFs. And then we need Carmelo to work his ASS OFF so he can have a chance in hell of stopping opposing swingmen.
To that end I think a coaching change is just as important as adding a max level player and some roleplayers, but that's another story entirely.
Let's not forget that we wasted whatever draft picks we had in the trades we've been making. We need to pick up FA roleplayers at C in order to keep this team going. No team is going to to the finals with Jared Jeffries at C.
There's that word again. The TEAM-MOA Kryptonite. They have all the answers on how to bait a fan base into "hoping" years down the line for some miracle player player, a miraculous defensive turn around, with a cycle of scrap heap players... and no real data to suggest why the issues we've faced justify their arguments for a player who doesn't impact the weakness we've EXCUSED for years.
SMH... is an understatement.
This past season, the cap was $58M, let's assume the cap stays somewhere around there, give or take a few mil. Next year, STAT and Melo make up $39M of our salary...43 mil the year after. That's just those two alone, not counting the coveted role players, and this phantom center that we're gonna get. Let's say those players collectively equal another $12M, you're now in 2013 with a payroll of $55M and no point guard.
Those remaining players have a cap hold equivalent to rookie scale contracts calculated based on remaining open spots. So the figure is higher than that.
I almost created a new thread for this...but I won't. I'll ask this question here and hope it's answered.
To all of those who think we should forgo another max and get a center, I need you to answer a few questions.
Who is this center that you want? Can he be acquired right now? Can he also be acquired with the MLE?
I would love for you to create this thread (thought the same too) as this will probably be discussed until next year. Many facets to consider and we can start with your question...
The argument as you stated is really putting our eggs in one basket (PG), or spreading the wealth to acquire possibly more than one player- starting with a center.
We can name centers who are available through FA, centers who we covet based on their skill set, and future projected FA.
IT's about the approach. Once we decide on the approach (really priorities) then choices can be made.
CP3 is NOT worth standing pat would mean...
We can shop/trade for a center who matches contracts either alone or combined between Billups, Fields, TD, Turiaf, Rautins, Shump, Balkman, or Jorts.
In effect it saying (admitting) NONE of these players is a keeper. EVERYONE of theses players (including a 2nd round pick if we still have that) is expendable and SHOULD be prioritized less than A STARTING CENTER.
You see? Then like ALL THE CP3 supporters are willing to concede... we will have to fill out our roster with cheap role players/vets.
THE DIFFERENCE IS: by sacrificing an EXPENDABLE player for a STARTER the replacement can be another expendable player (non starter).
SO the list of possible centers is longer than you think. BUT the point is it starts by ADMITTING a starting center minus ANYONE but STat & Melo would be better both long and short term.
Thank you. I keep hearing all these names being bandied about. Nene, Gasol, Deandre Jordan, etc., etc. I don't think a lot of people understand that we have no cap space to spend this summer on any free agent that wants more than a MLE contract.
I've covered this above your post. Again it's about prioritizing. Right now with Stat & Melo (and all the historical quantitative data available) we are arguing what's best for them NOW...
A Starting Center
A Max Starting PG on the horizon.
Both have built-in sacrifices.
The last point I would like to make is this...
Earlier this year before we traded Felton Gallo and co. we were proposing trades.
I proposed trading Gallo, Curry, (maybe Chandler and more)- whoever matched contracts $, but basically the same trade we made BUT FOR ANDREW BYNUM.
I know some were/are saying the Lakers wouldn't do it etc... I offered reasons why they might consider it. Gallo was emerging, Chandler could help, maybe Felton could replace Fisher, they still had Pau, Bynum's contract was ending, etc...
People said he was injury prone, some LIKE TRILL considered it.
BUT HERE'S MY POINT.
WE acquired MELO for basically that exact same trade (!!!!!), and I know partly because MELO forced his way, but look at it like this....
A team would rather get rid of a top prolific scorer and get depth and some scoring in return than a big like Bynum who is still very young. Not exactly cheap but cheaper than Melo.
In effect, if you argued that the Lakers wouldn't do this... then you are arguing the point that a CENTER is probably the most coveted position on WINNING squads- short of being led by Michael Jordan.
Think about that.
Prioritize the center, get creative, sacrifice whoever/whatever besides STAT & MELO to continue building our core with a less than MAX center and let the rest follow.
Open your eyes to the possibility to a viable center to continue our positive direction. All we need is a team to bite. we have time, so don't assume its CP3 or bust just yet.
Think about that.
