Kwame Brown... Are we serious?!

pakopako

Benchwarmer
Box us in to having to accpet a Kurt Thomas or over pay a Dalembert or Brown or worse and possibly not addressing our true needs.

Kurt Thomas can still play solid minutes each game. Look what he contributed to Chicago and Milwaukee as a back-up 5. Pull out the three-headed center again; it does work!
 

Marek

Benchwarmer
If we got him for a price which was totally insignificant, on a one-year deal, with a spare roster spot and no way it could possibly bite us in the ass I would be ok with it. I just can't see that happening.

Why can't you see that happening?
You're worried about nothing...the Knicks will not spend valuable cap space on this guy.
 

smokes

Huge Member
Why can't you see that happening?
You're worried about nothing...the Knicks will not spend valuable cap space on this guy.

Because we are not going to be the only team looking for a free agent C this year... We are also not the most attractive destination when you have teams like Miami and Chicago who are that much closer to a ring than us.

If there are other teams showing an interest we are going to have to beat their offer by either a) offering more money, or b) offering more years. Either way has the potential to screw us over.
 

STAT1

Starter
I have no idea why Knick fans would want to target a career underachiever draft bust like Kwame Brown, minimum salary or no.
 

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
Because we don't need him to do that much. We just need him to rebound and guard people, and he's shown himself to be a decent rebounder.

We're THAT desperate for rebounding.
 

RunningJumper

Super Moderator
Because Evans isn't 7'0" tall. We don't need another undersized big.
Shouldn't be about size. He wouldn't even be the starter.

Turiaf/Evans/Kurt Thomas

or

Turiaf/Chuck Hayes/Kurt Thomas

sounds nice to me. Plus we have Josh Harrellson. Who knows how he'll be.

Sheldon Williams did a nice job against Howard and other games. What about him?

If you want a center a couple or so inches taller and is young who we know would bring it, it's Dalembert or Howard. Otherwise we should go for actual defense.

If getting good defensive seven footers were that easy nobody would be saying the league is in shortage of them. We're fortunate enough to have 6'10 Turiaf! Even with those injuries!

Kurt Thomas has a nice shot outside the paint too so he's brings offense along with defense and rebounding.
 

STAT1

Starter
Because Evans isn't 7'0" tall. We don't need another undersized big.

I'd much rather have a 6'8" PF who can grab me 10 rebounds a game & play quality low post defense backing up STAT than a stiff like Kwame Brown who will struggle to grab rebounds with his tiny hands & has issues with knowing where he needs to be on the floor at any given time just because he's 4 inches taller. That's just me. I'd take Chuck Hayes at 6'6" at the C position before I take Kwame Brown for that matter. Or Jeff Foster even. I don't wanna see any more stiffs out there who have no idea how to play the game of basketball. I wanna see skilled players & players who will give it their all every second they're on the court. Kwame Brown is not that guy & never has been.
 

smokes

Huge Member
I'd much rather have a 6'8" PF who can grab me 10 rebounds a game & play quality low post defense backing up STAT than a stiff like Kwame Brown who will struggle to grab rebounds with his tiny hands & has issues with knowing where he needs to be on the floor at any given time just because he's 4 inches taller. That's just me. I'd take Chuck Hayes at 6'6" at the C position before I take Kwame Brown for that matter. Or Jeff Foster even. I don't wanna see any more stiffs out there who have no idea how to play the game of basketball. I wanna see skilled players & players who will give it their all every second they're on the court. Kwame Brown is not that guy & never has been.

+1 for you.

Heart, hustle, energy. Regardless of our defense (or lack of) that is what we should be looking for in any players we add if the emphasis is going to be on them helping defensively.

An undersized player who WANTS the ball is much more effective than a 7 foot guy who can barely catch the ball.
 

knicksman20

Benchwarmer
I think the point about wanting a C over 6'11 is you can't teach height. A guy that size can alter someone's shot by just standing up straight with their arms extended upward. A 6'8 guy doesn't have that luxury.
 

Red

TYPE-A
What is the world coming to when we are considering signing Kurt "Crazy Eyes" Thomas the oldest player in the league as if he's our answer at center?

Between Kurt, Kwame or Foster... NONE of these guys is worthy of being a starter. And that's my point

We should look at these types AFTER we get a starter. The fact that we believe we can achieve this "Center by committee" under MOA is ludicrous at best!

The fact that we are having trouble chosing the bottom of the barrell like arguing over the fat chick at the prom is indicative of our poor planning imo.

Under MOA these guys Won't make a difference, not enough to treat them like our answer. And this comes from attempting to go after Chris Paul A YEAR FROM NOW!

Didn't we make this mistake already? Hello!

Isn't it obvious we can't acquire 3 max super stars and acquire a legit center through FA? If we choose this 3 star plan (and one ISN'T A LEGIT center) we are f*cked.

Unless a cheap draft pick can hold down the fort at center this situation is a microcosm of things ahead. Wishing a guy either takes less or produces more than his career avg we will lack what it takes to win. Solid big man play.

And thinking we have assets to trade is further "triple Lindy Lunacy"...

We MIGHT have an asset or two to trade for either a serviceable big, maybe a draft pick. With 2 max's plus 1 on the horizon (not a legit big), it's Kwame + Crazy Eyes + MOA's lack of fundamental Big knowledge and a prayer!

Scrap this dream and do all possible to close the center gap. Compete THEN analyze what we may need. DON'T assume defeat until player X is acquired without gaurantee.
 

knicksman20

Benchwarmer
What is the world coming to when we are considering signing Kurt "Crazy Eyes" Thomas the oldest player in the league as if he's our answer at center?

Between Kurt, Kwame or Foster... NONE of these guys is worthy of being a starter. And that's my point

We should look at these types AFTER we get a starter. The fact that we believe we can achieve this "Center by committee" under MOA is ludicrous at best!

The fact that we are having trouble chosing the bottom of the barrell like arguing over the fat chick at the prom is indicative of our poor planning imo.

Under MOA these guys Won't make a difference, not enough to treat them like our answer. And this comes from attempting to go after Chris Paul A YEAR FROM NOW!

Didn't we make this mistake already? Hello!

Isn't it obvious we can't acquire 3 max super stars and acquire a legit center through FA? If we choose this 3 star plan (and one ISN'T A LEGIT center) we are f*cked.

Unless a cheap draft pick can hold down the fort at center this situation is a microcosm of things ahead. Wishing a guy either takes less or produces more than his career avg we will lack what it takes to win. Solid big man play.

And thinking we have assets to trade is further "triple Lindy Lunacy"...

We MIGHT have an asset or two to trade for either a serviceable big, maybe a draft pick. With 2 max's plus 1 on the horizon (not a legit big), it's Kwame + Crazy Eyes + MOA's lack of fundamental Big knowledge and a prayer!

Scrap this dream and do all possible to close the center gap. Compete THEN analyze what we may need. DON'T assume defeat until player X is acquired without gaurantee.

I have to agree with you Red. I HATE the idea of signing Kwame or any oneof these older undersized vets. He's a soft underachiever. If it's possible I really want them to go after Javale Mcgee which would come at a cheaper price. He's EXACTLY what we need in a starting center.
 

Red

TYPE-A
I have to agree with you Red. I HATE the idea of signing Kwame or any oneof these older undersized vets. He's a soft underachiever. If it's possible I really want them to go after Javale Mcgee which would come at a cheaper price. He's EXACTLY what we need in a starting center.

Ok, so if its Mcgee fine. But its IMPOSSIBLE to plan for adding another max and fix our needs at center unless Jorts magically produces or Fields/Douglas/Turiaf or Rautins is traded for one or a pick. That's the bottom line.

We NEED a center if we plan on competing period. How can we acquire said center given

We have 2 max's, and little valued assets (eveyone else). Plus the league has a HISTORY of either taking us for granted or Leveraging by using us as a potential destination.

We MUST recognize no one will do us ANY favors. The closest we can come to a favor is by fielding a competitive team ONE player away from a championship WITH room to spend $. And that $ amount will HAVE to be near to what the market price is.

So IF Mcgee is worth say 7mil per, and IF say we have the MLE 5mil+ to spend HE MIGHT TAKE IT- but there's a chance HE MIGHT TAKE 8.5 he will hypothetically be offered also.

When we bank on a player taking less, that's with the assumption he is offered more and we are sooo attractive he takes less. That's a gamble right there.

To ENSURE we have a shot we must:

1. Be very competitive WITHOUT him (thus needing a center before he even gets here or we will look dumb and weak)

2. Have MORE money than needed to compete with bids

By assuming and basing moves on little known or possible chances like acquiring CP3- we mind as well forget any possibility of getting anyone other than the least desired, oldest players in the league...


And that ain't gonna cut it!

Forget CP3, get draft picks and pray we can acquire a center who makes a difference or we will be the most entertaining failures.

Maybe Shump can learn ahead of the curve and can run the point- then maybe we can trade Billups for a big, maybe
 

Marek

Benchwarmer
Because we are not going to be the only team looking for a free agent C this year... We are also not the most attractive destination when you have teams like Miami and Chicago who are that much closer to a ring than us.

If there are other teams showing an interest we are going to have to beat their offer by either a) offering more money, or b) offering more years. Either way has the potential to screw us over.

If things escalate like that, the Knicks will just let him go.
It's not hard to foresee. You're worried about nothing. Kwame won't hustle the Knicks for 3yrs/$12m.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Ok, so if its Mcgee fine. But its IMPOSSIBLE to plan for adding another max and fix our needs at center unless Jorts magically produces or Fields/Douglas/Turiaf or Rautins is traded for one or a pick. That's the bottom line.

We NEED a center if we plan on competing period. How can we acquire said center given

We have 2 max's, and little valued assets (eveyone else). Plus the league has a HISTORY of either taking us for granted or Leveraging by using us as a potential destination.

We MUST recognize no one will do us ANY favors. The closest we can come to a favor is by fielding a competitive team ONE player away from a championship WITH room to spend $. And that $ amount will HAVE to be near to what the market price is.

So IF Mcgee is worth say 7mil per, and IF say we have the MLE 5mil+ to spend HE MIGHT TAKE IT- but there's a chance HE MIGHT TAKE 8.5 he will hypothetically be offered also.

When we bank on a player taking less, that's with the assumption he is offered more and we are sooo attractive he takes less. That's a gamble right there.

To ENSURE we have a shot we must:

1. Be very competitive WITHOUT him (thus needing a center before he even gets here or we will look dumb and weak)

2. Have MORE money than needed to compete with bids

By assuming and basing moves on little known or possible chances like acquiring CP3- we mind as well forget any possibility of getting anyone other than the least desired, oldest players in the league...


And that ain't gonna cut it!

Forget CP3, get draft picks and pray we can acquire a center who makes a difference or we will be the most entertaining failures.

Maybe Shump can learn ahead of the curve and can run the point- then maybe we can trade Billups for a big, maybe

So your plan is to pass up on a proven superstar like CP3 who fills a need for some draft picks and prayers that we find a decent center!? Brilliant!:thumbsup:

Of course Kurt Thomas or Kwame aren't the "key" but they are steps towards adding size and depth picking from the very limited pool of attainable big men.
 

knicksman20

Benchwarmer
So your plan is to pass up on a proven superstar like CP3 who fills a need for some draft picks and prayers that we find a decent center!? Brilliant!:thumbsup:

Of course Kurt Thomas or Kwame aren't the "key" but they are steps towards adding size and depth picking from the very limited pool of attainable big men.

I think from his previous post he thinks landing CP3 isn't realistic which I agree with. And even if we get him it doesn't address our defense & rebounding issues. If we do manage to get him, we're strapped financially for a long time.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
I think from his previous post he thinks landing CP3 isn't realistic which I agree with. And even if we get him it doesn't address our defense & rebounding issues. If we do manage to get him, we're strapped financially for a long time.


CP3 has to be the goal until proven otherwise. Trying to strike gold in the draft or get a decent center are equally long shots. It's simple really, you go after the best possible player available that fills a need. CP3 fits that criteria and would give us the most complimentary 3 star lineup in the league. At that point you can go for role players, draft picks or whatever needs we must fill.
 

RunningJumper

Super Moderator
CP3 has to be the goal until proven otherwise. Trying to strike gold in the draft or get a decent center are equally long shots. It's simple really, you go after the best possible player available that fills a need. CP3 fits that criteria and would give us the most complimentary 3 star lineup in the league. At that point you can go for role players, draft picks or whatever needs we must fill.
CP3 would make the position a lot better, but that position isn't a need for us (Billups).

If we're going for a superstar PG, Nash would make a lot more sense, because even if we TRADE for him his last year on his contract would be less. For let's say 1-3 years we would have a very fluent offense and giving us cap room for defensive players. Also, him and Dirk are the best shooters in the NBA. Having one of the best shooters, plus maybe the passer in the game doesn't hurt.

Heck, if we get Nash through free agency we could sign Billups as our 2-guard.

We shouldn't be looking to building a team to win NOW and several years in a row unless some amazing opportunity lands in our lap. With Nash/Billups or whatever, you can win NOW, and if Nash can't play that much anymore or whatever, guess what? Melo is only 27 and hasn't been injured most of his career. He's such a valuable superstar to have. It's not like if Nash can't play much after a year or two our team will be bad. In fact, our team could extend Nash's career.

This is more than Nash, hopefully you get my point. A max contract PG would be a desperate move to build for a team winning multiple championships in the next few years. Yes, you build for at least a few years, but you have to make sure it's not just Finals appearances and HOPE whoever is our center is enough to win four games. Those four games won't be easy with three maxes or not.

Do you think Chris Paul will improve a center's defense? Okafor is a good defender, and, well, ok, they played against the Lakers and the calls against him made him get the saddest look possible, understandably, but yeah. We're gonna need more than three max players. And if we do, Howard better be the third one.

Edit: Also, if Nash leaves in a year or so, we'd have cap room still. We're in a good position.
 
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