Talks finally going the right direction...

Probably many of us, Knicks fans, were following what's happening behind the closed doors when the talks resumed after a week of no touch between both parties. After approximately 15 hours of negotiations commissioner Stern called a press conference where he said some significant progress on many issues has been made and both sides had a very good time and they're going to have more good time today. But, he said something much more important to all of us: 'if enough progress were made between Thursday's scheduled negotiating session and the weekend or early next week, a full, complete 82-game schedule was still, while a longshot, indeed possible' and I'm asking myself: why the hell it took so long to get to the point where they stand right now? Why couldn't they be making some consistent progress during the summer, so they could avoid all that bad that happened around the league and all that anger the fans feel?

Reason.....Problem....Solution

The big talk of the CBA negotiation throughout the month of July
were big discussions on "Small-Market teams vs Big-Market teams"
where the owners had the chance to find equal ballance (for all 30
owners) to impliment into the new CBA rules. Which turned out to
be a helluva complicated solution when certain already established
teams (Lakers, Celtics, Miami, Knicks) could guarantee a sold-out
crowd when visiting Sacremento, Golden State, Minesoto, Washington,
Milwaukie, and Toronto, but it does not work visa-versa.

When the owners find good grounds with each other this lockout will
come to a conclusion with the players.

...but they are still held up about how to split the BRI which is the crux of the lock-out.

We shall see.

And IF they agree, we will have to have many back-to-back games to fit in 82 games which is another issue with health and all.

I read that they need to come up with a deal by beginning of next week in order for them to not lose any games. Sounds like over optimism and spin to me because they didn't even discuss the thorny issue of the BRI on Wednesday and Thursday. Anything is possible but I don't see any agreement if the owners insist on a 50/50 split.

Besides of commissioner Stern and deputy commissioner Silver there are two major persons representing the owners' side at the moment, Cuban and Dolan.
According to Roger Mason who is the vice president of the NBPA, the Knicks' owner is ready to make a deal any moment, he simply doesn't care the owners get 50% or 47% of the BRI, his both companies generate revenue of around $8B a year, do you think he cares about that few millions more or less from the BRI?
Cuban's revenue is about $2,5B a year, do you think he does care either?
I'd say big markets got the word now, they might be willing to seek a compromise somewhere between 50-53% for the players or they can simply accept union's conditions.

Its looooking goood!

Somehow I see the players accepting 52% to get the 2011-12 season
under way asap before the end of next week.

According to Roger Mason who is the vice president of the NBPA, the Knicks'
owner is ready to make a deal any moment, he simply doesn't care the
owners get 50% or 47% of the BRI, his both companies generate revenue of
around $8B a year, do you think he cares about that few millions more or less
from the BRI?
Cuban's revenue is about $2,5B a year, do you think he does care either?

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A few of the leagues greedy-grinning owners (with so much wealth) will
feel they won one for the corporate world. The rich get RICHER!
I guess we cant stop something this country was built on (progress).

Us Fans will be happy about the NBA lockout ending, at least I will.
I finally got an inside scoop to get tickets for the Miami, Lakers, Bulls,
and OKC games in the garden. Plus I will be looking for all the "Members"
of the KO board to be at full stream in this forum.

This squeeze-in 82 game season, we will see schedules of teams playing
4 games in 6 days, expect Kiyaman to bash the dum-dum Dantoni brothers
when their coaching is a small 6-7 man rotation with small lineups in this tight
schedule. Plus I will start the season off by bashing our unstoppable $100M
star Amare for not being a man of his word this offseason.....with the type
of schedule that will be presented at the end of the lockout the Knicks
young-players "Rautins, Shumpert, Jordan, Harrellson, Fields, Walker, and TD"
couldve used a two-week "Team-Workout" organized by one or two of the
Knicks BIG-3 this summer.

Can't wait. :afro:

Yeah, they're in for more than 5 hours now and still no news...

ESPN’s Brian Windhorst: League source said talks broke when players wouldn't accept less than 52% of BRI. No talks scheduled. More cancellations today.

NBPA: We are sticking to our desire to claim 52.5% of BRI. The owners have said they want a 50-50 split.

:barf:

I think we were all positive once heard both sides had a very good together and are making some progress... There were also signs today might be the day when the lockout ends, especially when David Aldridge said some owners sent a message to their crew to ready to work by Monday.
Unfortunately nothing special happened and source confirmed the league is about to cancel all games through 11/30 and no further meetings between both parties are scheduled.

Dzwonsson said:

ESPN?s Brian Windhorst: League source said talks broke when players wouldn't accept less than 52% of BRI. No talks scheduled. More cancellations today.

NBPA: We are sticking to our desire to claim 52.5% of BRI. The owners have said they want a 50-50 split.

:barf:

I think we were all positive once heard both sides had a very good together and are making some progress... There were also signs today might be the day when the lockout ends, especially when David Aldridge said some owners sent a message to their crew to ready to work by Monday.
Unfortunately nothing special happened and source confirmed the league is about to cancel all games through 11/30 and no further meetings between both parties are scheduled.

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Disappointing but not unexpected news. They're only about $100M apart or a little more than $3M a team, over 6 years thats $600M the players would be giving up but if the lockout lasts all season the players will lose $1.8B in salaries, even half the season would cost them more even if they gave into the owners. Seems to me the owners have the upper hand and the players should think about taking that 50/50 deal.

I find it more than possible that the owners will turn back to 47% for the players, especially if no games were made up when the season starts. During the press conference commissioner Stern has said the entire month of November canceled will generate the loss of around $800M.
The difference between both sides is ~$80M annually (2% of the BRI), the lenght of the next CBA is probably 7 years, so ~$80M x 7 = $560M + 2% of average increase of some $170M/year (current trends), so the players will have earned some $630M from that 2% when the new BRI expires minus all that money they will have lost during all the time they have not played, which is already $400M, so that 2% brings them just $230M if the season starts by December, however there is still a possibility that the league calls even more games being canceled if no deal is done within the next two weeks. Let's say the owners decide to accept the 52% proposal over four weeks from now and the season starts a few days before Christmas, how much will the players miss on their paychecks? $70M... Which all means they would make much more money if they accepted the 50/50 split just yesterday.

Games cancelled throughout November 30.......this has to be Stern's doing!
the mention of 47% again, after the players practically agreed to a hardcap in the last 23 hours of negotiation. A waste of time.

The players union should not meet with the owners untill the owners go public to announce they will give the players 52.5% of BRI, $5M MLE, and were keeping the previous luxury tax.

Is this CBA negotiation really about locking-down FA worth $10M or more to their original teams? then I dont want any part of it.


What the hell did so many people expect from the biggest Star FA market in the history of the NBA???

I realize there is a serious problem among the players affecting the negotiations, namely relatively low contracts (eg. rookies, sophomores and some vets) are forced not to talk what do they think and what do they want, they do not even take part in the talks. The league cares about the small markets and therefore they don't want to go even a point above the 50/50 split. But the union, or to be precise the superstars and their agents, do not care about other players, who simply want to play and start making money, doesn't matter it will be 50 or 52% of the BRI.
It is easy to blame the league for not having players on the court, but their current standpoint is a result of discussion among all the owners representing both large and small markets. As said before, if it depends on Dolan's or Cuban's call the players would get their 52 or even 53%, but that's why some small market owners are actively involved in the negotiations, to get a deal that makes sense and changes their situation. The union organized just one meeting where all players were welcome somewhere back in October, besides all discussions have been held between some multimillionaires and their agents. I personally think that's about time to let the majority speak, James, Wade, Paul or Garnett won't get this deal done until they get their 52%, doesn't matter how long this lockout will extend...

No mention of......

The MLB NHL and NFL are all closer to 57% for the players, none of
those leagues are 50-50.

The other thing I haven't heard people mention is that, while the players
get a good chunk of revenue, the average NBA player last 5 to 6 years in
the NBA.
The owners, on the other hand, can collect this money year after year for
the foreseeable future. And when they wanna check out, they can cash out
by selling the team.

But isn't it weird that the employees want to earn more than their employers?

Water and Oil....the two are different liquids

Dzwonsson said:

But isn't it weird that the employees want to earn more than their employers?

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u and so many others are looking at the NBA in the wrong perspective.....
The owners are nothing more than a "promoter" of a client (player), with
the "rights" to sit, play, or trade clients to other promoters.

An entertainer is an entire different world from employer-employee.

Kiyaman's right - this isn't the same world. There are VERY FEW people in the world who can play NBA ball. It's not like working at a Wal-Mart where you have to accept a low wage simply because if you don't they'll just find someone else to do it instead cause anybody can do that job.

The NBA can't just take all of its players and replace them.

SSj4Wingzero said:

The NBA can't just take all of its players and replace them.

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sure they can... they can go out and sign 2nd..and 3rd tier players.. and play the season...ofcourse the product will sux...

Boston Herald: after breaking off talks last Friday, the NBA and players? union are expected to resume face to face negotiations this Saturday in New York, according to involved sources.

We?re still awaiting confirmation from the league office, but sources say the plan is pretty much set.

The sides have been working within their own groups for the most part in these last days, setting their positions and deciding whether they will move from their most recent offers ? and, if so, by how much.

I'm not very optimistic, but still think it's quite better to sit together and try to figure out how to make a deal than to stay in the trenches and avoid any contact with each other...

Now that we've lost games, it's become a bread and butter issue. Both sides losing millions of dollars with every game lost, let the players step up and say they'll accept the 50/50 deal with incentives if revenues pass a certain mark. Let the owners abandon the "hard cap" and keep the exceptions with possibly reducing max years by one year. I think that will get a deal done.