Anyone else confident in Toney Douglas as our PG?

KingCharles34

All Star
Word. Dildo made minced meat out of our boy Douglas, but a bad shoulder...playoff nerves...and the lack of total team cohesion we had at that pt explains it, in my opinion.

Douglas could be fine at the 1, *if* Melo is able to be turned into more of a point forward; remember, Douglas was actually being hyped as an *advantage* to the team, when we were considering adding Lebron as our 3...

Ideally, we can sign Barea or get Sessions, perhaps -- I would feel comfortable with a tandem of Douglas and one of those two.

Agree completely, i think Melo is the biggest key to our success. Talent wise, hes the best all around in my opinion. I have no doubt that he has the ability to be a great point forward, he just has to look to pass a little more

I can't completely say that we'll be ok guarding Rondo when we play Boston, but it could definitely work with douglas being healthier and with Tyson Chandler on the team
 

iSaYughh

Starter
Agree completely, i think Melo is the biggest key to our success. Talent wise, hes the best all around in my opinion. I have no doubt that he has the ability to be a great point forward, he just has to look to pass a little more

I can't completely say that we'll be ok guarding Rondo when we play Boston, but it could definitely work with douglas being healthier and with Tyson Chandler on the team

Word. Part of the prob with Douglas getting owned so hard, was after Rondo blew (really, strolled :barf:) by him, Amare and everyone else we trotted out as our front court just let him finish the penetration by the rim at will.

Tyson, as you mentioned, will not allow this to happen like it did.

IMHO...we will get Barea for Douglas, because the Knicks see Barea as more of a potentially real 1 to pair up with Bibby; and they are set on Shumpert and Fields being the tandem at our 2.
 

smokes

Huge Member
Word. Part of the prob with Douglas getting owned so hard, was after Rondo blew (really, strolled :barf:) by him, Amare and everyone else we trotted out as our front court just let him finish the penetration by the rim at will.

Tyson, as you mentioned, will not allow this to happen like it did.

IMHO...we will get Barea for Douglas, because the Knicks see Barea as more of a potentially real 1 to pair up with Bibby; and they are set on Shumpert and Fields being the tandem at our 2.

This is what I don't get. I always thought of Shumpert as a PG. Though I haven't read all too much about him.

That plus the fact we still have some room to sign a better player that will hopefully be a SG.

Seriously we need some solidity in our backcourt and Fields/unproven rookie Shumpert cannot be relied upon. We need a Rip, JRich, etc.
 

Paul1355

All Star
This is what I don't get. I always thought of Shumpert as a PG. Though I haven't read all too much about him.

That plus the fact we still have some room to sign a better player that will hopefully be a SG.

Seriously we need some solidity in our backcourt and Fields/unproven rookie Shumpert cannot be relied upon. We need a Rip, JRich, etc.

unless you want to trade TD or Fields, that is not an option, we might have to rely on these guys if we can't get Davis off waivers for cheap
 

iSaYughh

Starter
This is what I don't get. I always thought of Shumpert as a PG. Though I haven't read all too much about him.

That plus the fact we still have some room to sign a better player that will hopefully be a SG.

Seriously we need some solidity in our backcourt and Fields/unproven rookie Shumpert cannot be relied upon. We need a Rip, JRich, etc.

That's a great point. Our potential ability to get a vet, true SG like Jrich, Rip....

In which case keeping Douglas, who has been with us his whole career, and has years under his belt with MDA, does make a lot of sense.

Tough one. Like you, I honestly don't know much about Shumpert, and what the Knicks truly view him as being.
 

smokes

Huge Member
unless you want to trade TD or Fields, that is not an option, we might have to rely on these guys if we can't get Davis off waivers for cheap

It is an option, we have the mini MLE of 2.5 million to offer some of these guys. A player like Michael Redd could be viable after coming off the kind of injuries he's had he would be getting no more than that I'm sure. Would be risky though.

Yes it's unlikely anyone such as Rip or Jrich etc would come here but there is a chance.
 

Paul1355

All Star
That's a great point. Our potential ability to get a vet, true SG like Jrich, Rip....

In which case keeping Douglas, who has been with us his whole career, and has years under his belt with MDA, does make a lot of sense.

Tough one. Like you, I honestly don't know much about Shumpert, and what the Knicks truly view him as being.

BUlls will offer more for Rip Hamilton, our choices are Carter and J Rich, both willl get more than we can afford.

Im pretty sure we dont have the MLE but we do have the mini mid level which is what we offered Grant Hill at 2.5 mil.....Hamilton, J Rich and Vince Carter will sign for higher
 

iSaYughh

Starter
BUlls will offer more for Rip Hamilton, our choices are Carter and J Rich, both willl get more than we can afford.

Im pretty sure we dont have the MLE but we do have the mini mid level which is what we offered Grant Hill at 2.5 mil.....Hamilton, J Rich and Vince Carter will sign for higher

Yep. You're right -- we just have the 2.M milly to offer.

I see J Rich def commanding a lot more. Hamilton, though....idk...The Bulls prolly will overpay for a SG.

Let's hope it's JRich, since he's arguably the best of those three anyways. And maybe Hamilton can fall to us for the 2.5.

If reports are true that we get Barea, and lose Douglas, it may be more important to get Hamilton, and then potentially make Fields a 6th man who swings between the 2 and 3.
 

mafra

Legend
I think we signed Bibby b/c we're confident T-Douglas is fine to run the point. he's had 2 years in the offense. Is healthy. Plays excellent defense. Can hit the 3. Remember a guy like Rondo, and what happened to his game when the talent around him improved?

Let's compare Rondo to Douglas, the first 2 years of their careers:

Minutes per game
Rondo had 23:30 & 29:53
Douglas had 19:23 & 24:18

Points per game
Rondo had 6.4 & 10.6
Douglas had 8.6 & 10.6

Assists per game
Rondo had 3.8 & 5.1
Douglas had 2.0 & 3.0

Steals per game
Rondo had 1.6 & 1.7
Douglas had 0.8 & 1.1

Turnovers per game
Rondo had 1.8 & 1.9
Douglas had 1.0 & 1.1

Rebounds per game
Rondo had 3.7 & 4.2
Douglas had 1.9 & 3.0

3-point shooting pct
Rondo shot 20.7 & 26.3
Douglas shot 38.9 & 37.3

*Although Rondo shot 48 total 3s his first 2 years, while Douglas shot about 560 of them.

Their FG% & FT% were pretty much dead even.

BOTH PLAYERS improved gradually, from season to season. Douglas improved his soph season & he played the entire year with a bum shoulder.

I think it's fair to expect Douglas to continue progressing. He is healthy, added 15 pounds of muscle.

Both players play GREAT defense.

Both players are basically the same size. Rondo the longer wingspan, while Douglas an inch taller.

Both were very good players in college.

Rondo saw his career take off when the Big-3 emerged in BOS. I expect the same thing to happen with Douglas, now that he's playing with one of the best front courts in the NBA.

Rondo was the better pure PG. A much better passer, But Douglas is a much better shooter (from downtown). Both can penetrate.

The key is: Will Douglas learn to be a pass-orientated PG. Facilitate? Run the p-&-r? We shall see.

Put, brace yourself. Our Big-3 might find out sometime in the upcoming post season, that we have a nother emerging star...
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
He deserves a chance

He does indeed. It's not like he'll be playing a predominant role. He's basically, given that D'Antoni can adapt to the weight of his frontline, playing a D Fisher role: provide and shoot - with the ability to drive, as well.

I think he's earned the stripes to have a crack at the starting 1. It'll be a small window of opportunity for him if he comes out lost though, I believe.

With all this Barea talk, I have to say that I'd much prefer the pre-injury Douglas out of the 2. Cheaper, bigger, stronger, faster.

I like Barrea's game, but not here, not now.
 

Paul1355

All Star
Yep. You're right -- we just have the 2.M milly to offer.

I see J Rich def commanding a lot more. Hamilton, though....idk...The Bulls prolly will overpay for a SG.

Let's hope it's JRich, since he's arguably the best of those three anyways. And maybe Hamilton can fall to us for the 2.5.

If reports are true that we get Barea, and lose Douglas, it may be more important to get Hamilton, and then potentially make Fields a 6th man who swings between the 2 and 3.

Barea might just sign with us for the min mid level
 

CoolClyde

Moderator
Toney Defense

Toney Defense is an important cog in a champion Knickerbocker wheel.
it's not imperative that he be a PG in this offense, but be a solid contributor,
especially off the bench. the man can hit three's, the man can defend,
two NEEDED aspects in the SSOL. I agree he deserves a chance to prove
himself; he's had 2 years with Antoni and the Knicks, has steadily improved,
gotten healthy (huge factor!), and is a hungry humble athlete. I like the guy!
:2cents:
KEEP TONEY D!!
:gony:
 

DaTPRiNCE

The Knicks are Back
apparently its not a sign and trade were just signing Douglas flat out. if its for the contract thats offered then that's great. will be an awesome spark of the bench that can play minutes and really change a game for us. Its looking like Douglas will be our starter come christmas day and as ive stated im all for it. Mafra's comment said it all; improving gradually then get put in the limelight and ready to handle it. everyone shook their head when Rondo was made starter for Boston where are they now that he's an allstar? just saying. :2cents: . Douglas can see similar success to a good starter and reliable
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
We all keep saying we need a starting point guard. But today I read something that made me aware we are underrating Toney as well:

D'Antoni was most impressed with a six-game stretch March 2-10 in which Douglas filled in for an injured Billups in the starting role. The Knicks won four of the six games and Douglas' production jumped to 16.8 points, 6.8 assists and 3.5 rebounds per game. He committed only 10 turnovers in the six games.

I checked some recaps and Douglas made 8 assists against Dallas, 10 against Memphis and 7 against Atlanta, except of an uneasy start against New Orleans and Cleveland (in both cases 5 assists) he delivered pretty well.
 
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nixon7

Benchwarmer
Shumpert Shumpert Shumpert Shumpert

The person who deserves a shot here is Iman Shumpert.

And Landry Fields at the 2 is also being disrespected and under-rated.
 
Toney Douglas will never be a successful starter his best will be a Jason Terry type of sixth man. For know he can start because the Knicks don't have options. He doesn't necessarily have to be great but want great, it is the only way to be real contenders.

Last I heard there is slight chance Baron Davis will be amnestied, and Knicks would be interested. The Knicks need a veteran pass first pg to maybe change TD's game, but the Knicks next step is looking for a starting point guard.

I agree, Douglas is a perfect spark off the bench type player. Like Terry and Barrea(sp) were for Dallas. I just dont beleive he has the skill set and experience to be the base of the fire. But as we saw last year with Dallas, that spark is instrumental to keeping a high energy level throughout the game and does wonders for a lineup. If we can land an experienced Point and get that crawford deal done I think we would have what Dallas had. A strong high energy back court rotation that can keep the pressure on a defense all game long with or without our stars on the floor
 

iJoe

Rotation player
People forget that Billups was even more of a defensive liablity vs. speedy PGs. That disrupted our entire game plan. Remember when TD had to play with Billups just to keep things even on defense?

We essentially traded Billups for Chandler though I still think we overpaid, it'll help us long term. TD is cheap and maybe we can finally start developing some players.
 

Forrest17

Rotation player
People forget that Billups was even more of a defensive liablity vs. speedy PGs. That disrupted our entire game plan. Remember when TD had to play with Billups just to keep things even on defense?

We essentially traded Billups for Chandler though I still think we overpaid, it'll help us long term. TD is cheap and maybe we can finally start developing some players.

There is no center that is actually good that would go for any less that what we paid. I mean, DeAndre Jordan is making 12 million a year now.. So if we were going to spend money I'd rather it be on a center that was actually really good, instead of paying a lot for one that is just beyond medicore... Not that Deandre is medicore, I think he is pretty good, just not worth that kind of money. I would hate to see us spend like 10 million a year on someone like Delambert though

Plus Tyson actually took 2 million less to play here than for what Golden State was offering him for what thats worth
 
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