SSj4Wingzero's Post Deserves Significant Exposure

TR1LL10N

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
I agree and this has been my major criticism with MDA. While everyone was focusing on his defense my issue has always been how effective he gets STAT his shots. Melo can score anywhere at any time but STAT needs to get the ball in the right spots. That is why I was not a fan of Billups and was sad to see Felton go. My hope is that Baron Davis comes back healthy and erases all these issues but pinning our hopes on an aging ex-stud who is injury prone does not instill confidence.

If the Knicks are playing this one dimensional offense by mid-season Davis or not, MDA needs to go, Woodson takes over as interim and then we pray we can convince Phil Jackson to come full circle and finish his career with a chip in the Mecca.
 
mafra

mafra

Legend
Sprewell-Houston said:
That's agreat post mafra!

I agree with you on almost everything.

After over 30 games together as Knickerbockers...and a record of below .500 (including the Playoffs)....the question is:

Can Amar'e and Melo really co-exist?

The problem is, they both need completely different philosophies to excell.
Melo is a half court and isolation guy, Amar'e is a pick and roll - uptempo guy.

I think combos that work well are:

Amar'e and Chris Paul
Melo and Dwight Howard

Amar'e and Melo = :argue: maybe?

They're not compatible it seems.
Click to expand...

We saw GAME-1 vs BOS (until the injury) that the only way to get Carmelo & Stoudemire in sync offensively is to get a PG who both dominates the ball & decides its distribution. Billups filled that role, chosing who to go to (Melo or Stoudemire) and kept the offense moving.

We can only hope Davis does this as well.

Otherwise, the 2 big FWDs don't know what to do. You would hope D'antoni would have watched some Bird-McHale tape to figure out how to get the 2 to co-exist. I mean, while we wat for Davis... Isn't there a way to get Carmelo the ball elbow extended and have Amar'e set the pick? Can't the 2 of them work that out?

I think Tyson Chandler also hurts Amar'e on the offensive end. TC bring nothing offensively. His only chance for points (aside from the fast break) come from Alley Oops & slam dunk put back off. rebounds. Ergo, he needs to be planted at or around the rim. This just makes it harder for Amar'e to drive to the dish. In PHO, & even last year, w ith no C or with a C on the perimeter, Amar'e had the lane all to himself. So, what we have now is nobody to pass ball to Amar'e as he cuts to hoop, we have an extra body clogging the lane, & finally our offense boils down to ISO plays for Carmelo.

We saw last year if you leave it to Amar'e to create his won shot... You get 2 things: he forces a 1 on 3, when probability of a turnover skyrockets or he settles on a long jumper.

AND what's the deal with Tyson Chandler? 6 rebounds in 2 games? Wow.
 
TR1LL10N

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
I love STAT but I think we should try to package him and Fields for a stud SG (Harden, Thorton or Martin?) and some role players. I don't think STAT and MElo compliment one another and STAT's game is too reliant on a PG to facilitate his offense. Just my two cents.
 
Crazy⑧s

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
Toons said:
silver lining, jerome jordan got sum burn, and if he is as good as he was in serbia, i would make him split time EVENLY with tyson C.
Click to expand...

Gotta love the fruit that comes in and calls everyone retards only to finish off with this little piece of gold at the end.

バカ
 
K

KnicksFan65

Rookie
LOL it's the second game of the season of a team that has had four games to play together and already the crying beings against the coach. We patched up one hole with Chandler but made another with the point guard. It's hard to go battle leaderless.....
 
S

Sprewell-Houston

Starter
TR1LL10N said:
I love STAT but I think we should try to package him and Fields for a stud SG (Harden, Thorton or Martin?) and some role players. I don't think STAT and MElo compliment one another and STAT's game is too reliant on a PG to facilitate his offense. Just my two cents.
Click to expand...

First one who openly agrees with me on this forum.

But it's not about who's right and who's not...I'd love to be wrong if that means we're going to the Finals...but I hardly see that coming with this roster.

At the moment most guys still use coach D'Antoni as the main reason we're underperforming....and the second reason is that we have no point guard....but it seems like you don't want to accept the fact that Melo and Amar'e don't fit.

We had a proven PG last season with Billups and still went .0500 under his guidance....D'Antoni might be gone sooner rather than later.....Baron Dais will be in action pretty soon...but all that won't negate the fact that STAT and Melo is a combination that doesn't fit basketball wise.

I know I dwell on that, but I want us to win and to achieve that one of them has to go I'm afraid.....as things stand our best option would be to trade Amar'e, Fields and Walker for Dwight HOward, fire D'Antoni, his brother and Phil Weber and make Woodson head coach, Herb Williams first assistant and try to get Phil Jackson or even Jerry Sloan in the offseason.

Melo and Dwight Howard is a fit, because Dwight doesn't need the P&R or uptempo to be effective he can basically score 20 points taking 5 or less shots a game, because most of his points come from offensive boards or free throws, plus he could set great picks for Melo.
 
Red

Red

TYPE-A
TR1LL10N said:
I agree and this has been my major criticism with MDA. While everyone was focusing on his defense my issue has always been how effective he gets STAT his shots. Melo can score anywhere at any time but STAT needs to get the ball in the right spots. That is why I was not a fan of Billups and was sad to see Felton go. My hope is that Baron Davis comes back healthy and erases all these issues but pinning our hopes on an aging ex-stud who is injury prone does not instill confidence.

If the Knicks are playing this one dimensional offense by mid-season Davis or not, MDA needs to go, Woodson takes over as interim and then we pray we can convince Phil Jackson to come full circle and finish his career with a chip in the Mecca.
Click to expand...

Like.

TR1LL10N said:
I love STAT but I think we should try to package him and Fields for a stud SG (Harden, Thorton or Martin?) and some role players. I don't think STAT and MElo compliment one another and STAT's game is too reliant on a PG to facilitate his offense. Just my two cents.
Click to expand...

Don't like.

This is a panic move if I ever saw one. Its odd because above you seemed to realize most of the dificencies and anomolies are systematic.

Then you talk of getting smaller...?smh

That's a D'Antoni staple. One I totally disagree with, both fundametally and with the way of wishfully thinking that everything works with the "right" point guard. My reaction is when it comes to MOA, NO it still doesn't work

Because of the byproducts and ancillary (intended & unintended) consequences of his approach.

IE. If you position your players around the perimeter, green light the chuck, then there is no ability to box out, anticipate the shot & ball position, thus we get killed on the boards. Simple.

But I'll stick to my 20 game mark before I microscope MOA. Give them time.
 
TR1LL10N

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Red said:
Like.



Don't like.

This is a panic move if I ever saw one. Its odd because above you seemed to realize most of the dificencies and anomolies are systematic.

Then you talk of getting smaller...?smh

That's a D'Antoni staple. One I totally disagree with, both fundametally and with the way of wishfully thinking that everything works with the "right" point guard. My reaction is when it comes to MOA, NO it still doesn't work

Because of the byproducts and ancillary (intended & unintended) consequences of his approach.

IE. If you position your players around the perimeter, green light the chuck, then there is no ability to box out, anticipate the shot & ball position, thus we get killed on the boards. Simple.

But I'll stick to my 20 game mark before I microscope MOA. Give them time.
Click to expand...


Who said anything about smaller? I said SG AND role players. I much rather have Harden and a role player PF like Verajo on this team then STAT. Again, I like STAT but I think him and Melo will always struggle on the same team unless we get a good PG to facilitate the offense. I am not panicking or making snap judgments as this was my thinking last year as well.

Listen, STAT brings two things and only two things...scoring and the occasional blocked shot. If his scoring is hampered by our roster, system or whatever then he is almost useless.
 
Red

Red

TYPE-A
TR1LL10N said:
Who said anything about smaller? I said SG AND role players. I much rather have Harden and a role player PF like Verajo on this team then STAT. Again, I like STAT but I think him and Melo will always struggle on the same team unless we get a...
Click to expand...

Coach who knows how to utilize their talents better and make a positive influence towards their defensive weaknesses. (I fixed it for you).

And trade stat for a guard IS getting smaller hello?

And for Verojo? Are you on drugs?

F*ck all that better fit shit and come back to reality. When you decide to remove your D'Antoni rose colored goggles, meaning STOP seein things in relation to MOA (I know we all have to consider MOA) then things become clear.

Don't think its strange that for years we've considered
We need a new pf
Then center
Then closer
Then shooter
Then assistant coach
Then PG
On and on....
Next it'll be we need better lighting, better wood, better basketballs, better...

Until we construct a USA dream-team where Mike doesn't have to coach.

Then what? It'll be we need better cheerleaders...
Smh. The players are going nowhere...

Mike on the other hand better step it up.
 
ronoranina

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Toons said:
silver lining, jerome jordan got sum burn, and if he is as good as he was in serbia, i would make him split time EVENLY with tyson C.
Click to expand...

You have got to be fuggin kiddin me! :drink:. You must be drunk son..



Neway

Still too early to blame MDA for anything folks.

When/if B.Davis steps on the court we'll see this offense run alot closer to the way its supposed to.

MDA really needs good pg play to open things up.

But for right now guys need to move the ball and play together. I just don't see it now. It'll get better but will take time. Right now there are too many isos.. hero bball as Doc Rivers calls it. This just won't get it done unless key guys are knocking down shots and they weren't falling last night for Melo and Amare.

That said, it's the 2nd game of the season people.

Calm yo':smokin:selves down. Look at the Lakers for crying out loud and be greatful
 
K

Knicks32

Benchwarmer
I agree with the thread post.

Unlike other NBA teams which run plays the Knicks seem to be resorting to isolation plays rather than teamwork.

The last few games had so few assists I can barely remember them. There were also very few plays where they helped get a man open to get an open shot.

We need a TEAM not a bunch of superstars that can play one-on-one.

I think the blame lies on the coach and the PG. I think if we had a good PG who could distribute the ball better it would also be helpful.

Amar'e though needs to move more and can't just stand at the top of the key for his jump shot and Melo can't just stand in his money spot or behind the 3 either.

Will Davis change things?
 
R

Real NY Baller

Starter
I?m blaming D?Ant. They lost this game because of the coach?s philosophy. We literally shot ourselves out of this game. Instead of designing plays for our main scorers, he still has them shooting the ball as soon as possible. There were way too many quick shots and most of them bricked. This throws the team out of rhythm and causes them to lose steam, continuity and intensity. I've always loved and respected Mark Jackson and wished he was giving the chance to coach here because he knows to be a TRUE contender you have to play Defense. Our positioning sucked hard. Even on offense Stat and Mello were bumping into each other and couldn?t find proper spacing and there were way too many quick shots.

When your mind set is focused on Defense other aspects of your game will pick up naturally. The game has to come to you?you can?t force it. When you play good ?D? you are more likely to be hyped up/charged/ in the freaken zone?therefore your offensive game opens up? all the while dispiriting the opposition. We have enough offensive talent to score against anyone so we should slow it down to a half court game because Stat, Mello and Landry can create their own shots. D?Ant knows squat about D and I'm starting to question his over all coaching ability because his ass is being exposed everytime the Knicks take the court. I can?t wait for the day we can this dude. He?s either a retard or just too stubborn to change his flawed B-Ball game into something the team can actually relate too. He?s not a true coach, just someone who was always fortunate to have great players around him?..often failing them, himself and the fans. He didn?t even have the decency to give M.Jackson his props after the game. His post game comments were ?we shot poorly today?. Wow, no shit Sherlock, this dude is unbelievably clueless. I truly hope he recognizes just how bad he really looks and make some changes in his coaching ASAP. It?s a shame we have all this talent and can?t even use them properly.
 
Red

Red

TYPE-A
Real NY Baller said:
I?m blaming D?Ant. They lost this game because of the coach?s philosophy. We literally shot ourselves out of this game. Instead of designing plays for our main scorers, he still has them shooting the ball as soon as possible. There were way too many quick shots and most of them bricked. This throws the team out of rhythm and causes them to lose steam, continuity and intensity. I've always loved and respected Mark Jackson and wished he was giving the chance to coach here because he knows to be a TRUE contender you have to play Defense. Our positioning sucked hard. Even on offense Stat and Mello were bumping into each other and couldn?t find proper spacing and there were way too many quick shots.

When your mind set is focused on Defense other aspects of your game will pick up naturally. The game has to come to you?you can?t force it. When you play good ?D? you are more likely to be hyped up/charged/ in the freaken zone?therefore your offensive game opens up? all the while dispiriting the opposition. We have enough offensive talent to score against anyone so we should slow it down to a half court game because Stat, Mello and Landry can create their own shots. D?Ant knows squat about D and I'm starting to question his over all coaching ability because his ass is being exposed everytime the Knicks take the court. I can?t wait for the day we can this dude. He?s either a retard or just too stubborn to change his flawed B-Ball game into something the team can actually relate too. He?s not a true coach, just someone who was always fortunate to have great players around him?..often failing them, himself and the fans. He didn?t even have the decency to give M.Jackson his props after the game. His post game comments were ?we shot poorly today?. Wow, no shit Sherlock, this dude is unbelievably clueless. I truly hope he recognizes just how bad he really looks and make some changes in his coaching ASAP. It?s a shame we have all this talent and can?t even use them properly.
Click to expand...

Damn!

And this time it's not me...

Again, all I can say is, reserve judgement until 20 games.

No off-season, short camp, new bodies, new defensive philosophy, etc...

Give it a chance. So many other teams have been together longer, so really we are behind.

Patience.

*yeah I said it.
 
R

Real NY Baller

Starter
You're right, Red. I just get so heated with this Damntoni guy. He's crappy, stubborn and can't coach up his talent to their best abilities. All he wants to do is make these guys play his way or no way. If you can't adjust to what you actually have...then you are the main problem. In my book...he epitomizes poor leadership.
 
Wargames

Wargames

Starter
Red said:
Damn!

And this time it's not me...

Again, all I can say is, reserve judgement until 20 games.

No off-season, short camp, new bodies, new defensive philosophy, etc...

Give it a chance. So many other teams have been together longer, so really we are behind.

Patience.

*yeah I said it.
Click to expand...

I have agree I'm a big believer that coaching is an issue but with both of the knicks better guards (we hope their better) injured we cant call for D'antoni's job at best we can murmur and suggest better coaching. Also Baron is ironically possibly the best PG for the knicks due to his background (Highly skilled but never wanted to be the "man" on his team. Co-creator of the original Lob city with B. Griffin, highest rate last year to pass the ball to player in position for easy scores, P'N'R capBle, etc)

20 games should giv us a real picture. The knicks don't need a top seed in the playoffs they just need to play like one when they get there. If it is a coaching issue hopefully Dolan's money can get a high caliber coach to come in and fix it. Remember the Knicks front office did not sign Mike D to an extension for a reason, he has to show and prove to keep his job.
 
nyk_nyk

nyk_nyk

All Star
TR1LL10N said:
I love STAT but I think we should try to package him and Fields for a stud SG (Harden, Thorton or Martin?) and some role players. I don't think STAT and MElo compliment one another and STAT's game is too reliant on a PG to facilitate his offense. Just my two cents.
Click to expand...

Its not about STAT and Melo not complimenting one another. They can play together but they need a head coach that understands how to make it work. Sorry but I honestly think Dantoni NEEDS a high level pg to be successful and that's where some of the futility comes to play. He's a coach that relies on his pg to make ALL the decisions. Don't get me wrong, a PG should make decisions but the coach ultimately designs and calls the plays based on matchups.

STAT has always been most effective when he recieves a pass while in motion. Why Dantoni hasn't implemented that I don't know. He doesn't have to have a Nash clone to do this either. It can be anyone on the team with average passing skills. Also, I've been screaming for STAT to develop a low post game but I guess Dantoni doesn't think its neccessary in his perimeter based offense.:shrug:

We're nowhere near discussing trade scenerios for STAT. He deserves to play in a better system before we even entertain that idea. Just my 2 cents.
 
I

iJoe

Rotation player
I've seen the Spurs get blown out plenty of times before... even with 50+ win seasons. Same goes for many of the elite teams. Sometimes an opposing team just happens to click while the chemistry and shot is just off for the your team.

Yes there is always cause for concern and room for improvement, but lets try not to panic until losing becomes consistent. I can make any player in the NBA look terrible with a bad highlight reel (can make any player look great too which is why highlight reels are a terrible way to judge players).

I want to see more Melo and Amare at point forward. They NEED to understand how and when to distribute. The biggest problem with Melo is that he can easily get off a shot any time he likes. He just needs to learn to pass up the lower percentage shots and improve his teammates. Sometimes being too talented works against you :)
 
DontForgetDerekHarper

DontForgetDerekHarper

Starter
lets slow it down here folks

in a year that sees boston go 0-3 and get blown out by the hornets with out eric gordon

the hawks look like the heat right now

the clippers just got murdered last night against an old spurs team

in essence

these games are still pre-season games

while i had fire dantoni written all over my facebook wall today,

which is only because i hate dantoni all the way through and through

i have to admit to myself that this new team, new philosophy and new trust between our players will take time to work itself out.

lets jsut take it easy here
 
nyk_nyk

nyk_nyk

All Star
Red said:
F*ck all that better fit shit and come back to reality. When you decide to remove your D'Antoni rose colored goggles, meaning STOP seein things in relation to MOA (I know we all have to consider MOA) then things become clear.

Don't think its strange that for years we've considered
We need a new pf
Then center
Then closer
Then shooter
Then assistant coach
Then PG
On and on....
Next it'll be we need better lighting, better wood, better basketballs, better...

Until we construct a USA dream-team where Mike doesn't have to coach.

Then what? It'll be we need better cheerleaders...
Smh. The players are going nowhere...

Mike on the other hand better step it up.
Click to expand...

Some of you may not agree... but this post right here is ON POINT!

Like i've said before, its still early and i'm not gonna panic but there are some fundamental things that need to be stressed by the coach that has been lacking since he got here. I think 15 games would be a sufficient sample size for me.
 
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