Tired of needing the perfect team in order for bum coach to win

Red · Jan 18, 2012

KBlack25 said:
Do I trust Landry Fields to stop anyone? No. Do I think he should be benched? Yes - to an extent. I think he can still help out in certain ways. I think these criticisms are fair. But if you are criticizing the defense this year (especially using PPG), you are just wrong, simple as that. PPG is an archaic stat with little to no value in actually analyzing a team.

Can coaching help this? Also no, because no coach is going to magically imbue Landry with the lateral quickness to make him effective on the perimeter defending his man.

Yes, there were people who bitched about signing Billups - this poster was not one of them.

There were people who said Billups would get us CP3 - this poster was not one of them.

Your issue is you project other people's comments on to me.

But the defense has been good. The offense has been stagnant, uninspired and just awful, that's the issue. Teams might have career shooting days against us - but if you think Ryan Anderson is a poor shooter you haven't been following the NBA this season. I'd rather force teams to take long jumpers and beat us that way than to give up easy layups in the paint. Forcing teams into lower percentage shots is to me good defense, and it starts with Tyson Chandler affecting this team and actually making us more physical near the rim.

And the fact that you use PPG to "prove" your point just shows you don't know a gosh darn thing.

And you obviously don't know what "Robbing Peter to Pay Paul" means. We detracted, heavily, from our PG position, by amnestying Billups to create room to sign someone in Tyson Chandler to fill a role where Jared Jeffries was projected to probably start. We severely hurt our guard position play to help our center play, and though it created a much more physical team in the middle, it created a much weaker team at PG. The issue is we improved heavily in one area by hurting ourselves in another, specifically in running a fluid and capable offense through Billups.

The quote you used was not from you. My response was not directed toward you, but toward the quote from the other blog.

The issue is we improved heavily in one area by hurting ourselves in another, specifically in running a fluid and capable offense through Billups.

Yes I understand. But how can you say "hurting ourselves in another" when nobody thought Billups was any good IN THIS SYSTEM?

Isn't that contradictory?

We have to now assume that the only capable way of "running a fluid and capable offense" is by keeping Billups even though our defensive interior (and perimeter) lacked zeal? The same guy who no one wanted?
The same guy who everyone said and agreed doesn't play defense well?

Poppycock. Not having Billups is not a valid excuse of this ineptitude and is made far fetched considering we replaced him with a defensive big.

My point being, with Billups we needed defense and never planned on keeping him; he was old, slow, and didn't FIT this system remember? So Chandler is here instead because this system needed a big, but now the system doesn't work because it's missing a PG...

ONE WE NEVER HAD IN BILLUPS. So what's the difference? That PG shit is just another excuse. But the apparent thing and common theme is... THE SYSTEM.

And further why are we just zoning in on the offense as if there aren't many issues apparent? Isn't that quite "D'antonian"?

KingofNy · Jan 18, 2012

The perfect team what? LOL We're officially the worst team in the league. If I did the power rankings I would rank the Knicks 30th. Seriously.

Clyde & The Pearl · Jan 18, 2012

ronoranina said:
Yes.. i still support MDA.

He's not perfect, but he's a good coach.

I'm a firm believer in the notion that every coach, even the very best, need the highest caliber players if you're going to have success.

Whether it's Pat Riley, Phil Jackson or whoever.

Look at all those years Riles had Ewing and no second star and didn't get it done

Jackson without Jordan that one year= no title.

Jackson w Kobe aging, decides to retire.

--->The problem with your thought process is we now have (3) thats right right huge talents on this team. Possibly (4) if BDiddy is healthy. Along with some up and coming rookies. One which is being used ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY the wrong way.

I think the same things are important that most people do. I enjoy good defensive play and strategy. I was one of the first people on the forum to call for a defensive assistant to be added to the coaching staff.

W Woodson so far this year were 8th in defensive rating. Seeing that I'm like what do people have to complain about. We've held teams to around 80 points in a few games this yr.

Right now its the offense, the bad backcourt and some gellin issues from Amare now being entrenched at the 4 and the rest of the guys not really have a feel for each other and playing together that are our main issues.
I think Melo takes too many shots also. He needs to be a distributor, get guys involved in the first 3 quarters and take over if needed in the fourth.

--->So the backcourt is below par. ADJUST. I'll give you a football comparison. Tebow couldnt hit the side of a barn with a forward pass. Guess what his head coach did? ADJUSTED. Team won a playoff game after being dead in the water. Where are the ABSOLUTE NECESSARY ADJUSTMENTS by MDA?

But back to my original point. MDA needs a PG to run his offense, no secret there. Every coach needs components.

--->So he doesnt have the components? Try something different? This team is starving for wins. Its like planning a meal. You want to make veal parmesan. But you have no veal. You have ground beef. Whats wrong with meatball parmesan? Or would you rather starve?

Thruout NBA history it's always been the same.

When he had Nash and Felton MDA could run his stuff and he had success. Without someone who can really run a team you see what we've been subjected to... Melo trying to play point forward. This is not ideal.

When Baron Davis steps on the floor. We'll start to see this thing look the way it's supposed to.

Until then we will be incomplete, lacking in the most important type componentry for this system.

Naturally MDA and the success of the team is affected by this and the other issues I've highlighted.

Idk what some of you want the man to do. With a complete team this coach will have good success.

--->Oh contrar. The team is complete. Any other coach would have this team sitting at 10-4. MINIMUM.

CoolRunnings · Jan 18, 2012

All I have to say is Denver is 10-5...Take this as you want, this can be interpreted and translated in many ways.

No stars
All knick rejects

Clyde & The Pearl · Jan 18, 2012

fender0577 said:
Dude have you been watching the Knicks this year?Seriously, oh and i love the title of this thread"Tired of needing the perfect team in order for bum coach to win", brilliant.

Yea. I had to nip the perfect team thing in the but. This team is talented and big. Most coaches would pee their pants to coach them as is. That's without BDiddy. This cat has no clue about what he's doing. NONE

Paul1355 · Jan 18, 2012

Clyde & The Pearl said:
This is truly ludicrous. This guy doesnt adjust to his roster and players like most coaches. We have all this size now and we shoot more jumpers than any team in the league. If not we're dam close. We have absolutely NO POST PLAYS whatsoever. I mean NONE.

STAT is getting older, now is the time to put his big ass down low and make the other teams pay. But noooooooooo, coach has him shooting from 15ft or more.

Instead of relying on jumpers that are not falling at an alarming rate send STAT, Jorts, Jordan and Chandler in the paint. Play inside out. But noooooooooooo we gotta make sure our quota on 3 pt attempts are met.

Point guards cant run the pick and roll? Can they dump it down into the paint and cut? Seems like an easier task to me. But nooooooooooooo we keep running the same thing that isnt working and getting us beat time after time. Its called INFREAKINGSANITY for those that dont know.

Raise your hand if you thought Jorts was the next Gallo? Hoisting uo 3's at an unconscious pace. Not me. I thought he'd be the next Rambis. Oakley. Silas. Mahorn. But nooooooooooooooooooooooo this idiot takes size and developes him into a 3 point specialist. You're freaking kidding me. You gotta be.

This clown cant hit the road soon enough....

Mike D is a clown

Clyde & The Pearl · Jan 18, 2012

Until you guys that support MDA realize his system is at best flawed, you'll never see the light. The Knicks arguably have the best front court in the league, and MDA cant muster a winning record because he doesnt have an elite point guard? BS Mr Hand Man. What happens if BDiddy doesnt come back? We lose games because he cant make adjustments?

You give this team to the worst NBA HEAD COACH in the league (MDA IS A EUROPEAN HEAD COACH) and he'd put STAT & Chandlers big asses in the paint and pound the offensive glass. NO WAY IN HELL ARE WE LOSING TO LOTTERY TEAMS FROM A YEAR AGO. No way is Jorts going to walk in a REAL NBA HEAD COACHES GYM right out of college AND START WORKING ON HIS 3 POINT SHOT. The kid is 6'10 275 for Christ sake.

CHEEESH...

Clyde & The Pearl · Jan 18, 2012

I'd rather force teams to take long jumpers and beat us that way than to give up easy layups in the paint. Forcing teams into lower percentage shots is to me good defense, and it starts with Tyson Chandler affecting this team and actually making us more physical near the rim.

--->So you think teams taking low % jump shots aganst us is a good thing, but you defend a head coach who's primary offensive philosophy is to hoist up the same type of shots. OH THE IRONY...

KBlack25 · Jan 18, 2012

Clyde & The Pearl said:
I'd rather force teams to take long jumpers and beat us that way than to give up easy layups in the paint. Forcing teams into lower percentage shots is to me good defense, and it starts with Tyson Chandler affecting this team and actually making us more physical near the rim.

--->So you think teams taking low % jump shots aganst us is a good thing, but you defend a head coach who's primary offensive philosophy is to hoist up the same type of shots. OH THE IRONY...

Where did I defend the coach?

I specifically said the way the offense has looked is, and I quote, "stagnant, uninspired and just awful".

You people will read whatever you want into anything. I am not saying don't criticize the coach, I am saying criticize him for things he deserves to be criticized for - in this case the offense, for which there is no excuse for having no scheme or plan with the talent he has.

Clyde & The Pearl · Jan 18, 2012

KBlack25 said:
Where did I defend the coach?

I specifically said the way the offense has looked is, and I quote, "stagnant, uninspired and just awful".

You people will read whatever you want into anything. I am not saying don't criticize the coach, I am saying criticize him for things he deserves to be criticized for - in this case the offense, for which there is no excuse for having no scheme or plan with the talent he has.

I think you mentioned hating on MDA for no reason. Correct? There are plenty of reasons.

KBlack25 · Jan 18, 2012

Clyde & The Pearl said:
I think you mentioned hating on MDA for no reason. Correct? There are plenty of reasons.

No I said, quoting someone else (not even my words), hating on the defense is just proof of hating him for no reason.

If you are angry at the defense this year, you aren't watching the games.

Way to comprehend reading though and accuse me of saying things I did not say. In fact, my own words were extremely critical of the job D'Antoni has done on the offensive end of the floor and as I will reiterate, again, there is no excuse for having no real scheme or plan with the offensive talent he has. There is no reason we should be playing so poorly offensively with the talent we have. Should we be an all-world-caliber offense? Without a PG probably not, but we have to be better than we are. With STAT and Melo we should be much more efficient than we are offensively.

Clyde & The Pearl · Jan 18, 2012

KBlack25 said:
No I said, quoting someone else (not even my words), hating on the defense is just proof of hating him for no reason.

If you are angry at the defense this year, you aren't watching the games.

Way to comprehend reading though and accuse me of saying things I did not say. In fact, my own words were extremely critical of the job D'Antoni has done on the offensive end of the floor and as I will reiterate, again, there is no excuse for having no real scheme or plan with the offensive talent he has. There is no reason we should be playing so poorly offensively with the talent we have. Should we be an all-world-caliber offense? Without a PG probably not, but we have to be better than we are. With STAT and Melo we should be much more efficient than we are offensively.

Dude. Admit it. I a way you are defending him. But a question for you.

Do you TRULY think MDA has a lot to do with the way the defense is playing this year? Honestly?

KBlack25 · Jan 18, 2012

Clyde & The Pearl said:
Dude. Admit it. I a way you are defending him. But a question for you.

Do you TRULY think MDA has a lot to do with the way the defense is playing this year? Honestly?

I think it honestly has much more to do with Chandler (who, by the way, has been extremely unfairly criticized on this board for what he has brought to this team), but I am not in the huddles, I have no idea what is said and what isn't. The fact is the defense has been better than it has been in a long time, but the offense right now is a joke. And that's my issue with the way this team is run right now. Maybe Baron changes it, but I am not holding out hope. Fact is, the defense is better, and if you want to sit there and criticize D'Antoni for what is going on on the floor I have no issue with that. Just do it in a cogent manner that ACTUALLY reflects the product you see.

In what way am I defending him? You said, "In a way, you are." What way is that? By asking the criticisms lobbed in his direction to be fair? I don't equate being fair to somebody to defending them...

Clyde & The Pearl · Jan 19, 2012

KBlack25 said:
I think it honestly has much more to do with Chandler (who, by the way, has been extremely unfairly criticized on this board for what he has brought to this team), but I am not in the huddles, I have no idea what is said and what isn't. The fact is the defense has been better than it has been in a long time, but the offense right now is a joke. And that's my issue with the way this team is run right now. Maybe Baron changes it, but I am not holding out hope. Fact is, the defense is better, and if you want to sit there and criticize D'Antoni for what is going on on the floor I have no issue with that. Just do it in a cogent manner that ACTUALLY reflects the product you see.

In what way am I defending him? You said, "In a way, you are." What way is that? By asking the criticisms lobbed in his direction to be fair? I don't equate being fair to somebody to defending them...

When you factor in that MDA probably has (0) zero effect on the defense being better this year (he's not scheming anything defensively) criticizing him for any part of the Knicks play or lack of play is fair game IMHO.

I dont see any big upgrade in the offense when BDiddy gets back. Its still the same philosophy. We'll live by the sword (3 point shot) and die by the same sword. We'll still have STAT and Chandler 15ft from the rim. We'll still shoot to many jump shots. We wont play a post up game. Its MDA's philosphy that's gonna kill this team. He doesnt have the shooters this year. He needs to adjust...

SSj4Wingzero · Jan 19, 2012

Clyde & The Pearl said:
When you factor in that MDA probably has (0) zero effect on the defense being better this year (he's not scheming anything defensively) criticizing him for any part of the Knicks play or lack of play is fair game IMHO.

I dont see any big upgrade in the offense when BDiddy gets back. Its still the same philosophy. We'll live by the sword (3 point shot) and die by the same sword. We'll still have STAT and Chandler 15ft from the rim. We'll still shoot to many jump shots. We wont play a post up game. Its MDA's philosphy that's gonna kill this team. He doesnt have the shooters this year. He needs to adjust...

There might not be an upgrade in the offense, but you gotta be kidding if you think STAT and Chandler are still going to be 15 feet from the rim.

Toney Douglas could not make a pass worth shit in this offense - and this is an offense designed to make point guards look REALLY good. Hell, CHRIS DUHON looked good in this offense...Raymond Felton looked like an All-Star in this offense (and probably would've been if not for his Shumpert-like shot selection)...the fact that Toney Douglas cannot average 6 or more assists per game is a simple sign that this guy sucks at passing and will never be any good at it, ever.

Tommy Dee from The Knicks Blog wrote after last year's postseason loss that Chauncey Billups was doing a hell of a lot more coaching than Mike D'Antoni and was "making a lot more sense", as he wrote it.

Maybe that's why TD looked pretty awesome when Billups went down last year in the regular season and now looks like ass.

Clyde & The Pearl · Jan 19, 2012

SSj4Wingzero said:
There might not be an upgrade in the offense, but you gotta be kidding if you think STAT and Chandler are still going to be 15 feet from the rim.

Huh? That's where STAT was last year. So was Mozgov (sp) and any other big that MDA played. What offense have you been watching? They'll run the same exact thing they're running now with BDiddy. We may be a bit better, but when your offense is predicated on shooting threes, and rarely posting up you're fighting a losing battle at the start. It's a flawed philosophy at best. You have to hope the jumpers all falling all game long every game. When does that happen?

NEVER...

MusketeerX · Jan 19, 2012

This coach's deficiencies are quite apparent.

Horrible rotations (as they have been since he started)
Worst Defensive schemes ever (switching on every play)
inability to adapt to a team that doesn't fit his only idea of how to play basketball

The guy has finally gotten some good defensive players (Harrleson, Shumpert, Chandler); two of the greatest offensive scorers in the NBA; and people still make excuses.

We aren't the deepest team, for certain. But, the way we win and the way we lose are both horribly pathetic. Our team is better than what they are playing at.

D'Antoni is stifling their potential and slowing down any kind of progress. I have no misconception that we are not a championship team at the moment, but this is our team. We have some great pieces and MDA has NO IDEA what to do with them.

I said it last year and the year before. We will never win a championship with this coach. He has proven his ineptitude time and time again. He either needs to adapt to the players he has, or get the hell out of the way.

MusketeerX · Jan 19, 2012

SSj4Wingzero said:
There might not be an upgrade in the offense, but you gotta be kidding if you think STAT and Chandler are still going to be 15 feet from the rim.

Toney Douglas could not make a pass worth shit in this offense - and this is an offense designed to make point guards look REALLY good. Hell, CHRIS DUHON looked good in this offense...Raymond Felton looked like an All-Star in this offense (and probably would've been if not for his Shumpert-like shot selection)...the fact that Toney Douglas cannot average 6 or more assists per game is a simple sign that this guy sucks at passing and will never be any good at it, ever.

Tommy Dee from The Knicks Blog wrote after last year's postseason loss that Chauncey Billups was doing a hell of a lot more coaching than Mike D'Antoni and was "making a lot more sense", as he wrote it.

Maybe that's why TD looked pretty awesome when Billups went down last year in the regular season and now looks like ass.

Do you remember Duhon in this offense. I'm pretty sure he shot 17% behind the three point arc in his last season as a Knick. I cringed everytime he touched the ball, and he was our PG....

SSj4Wingzero · Jan 19, 2012

Clyde & The Pearl said:
Huh? That's where STAT was last year. So was Mozgov (sp) and any other big that MDA played. What offense have you been watching? They'll run the same exact thing they're running now with BDiddy. We may be a bit better, but when your offense is predicated on shooting threes, and rarely posting up you're fighting a losing battle at the start. It's a flawed philosophy at best. You have to hope the jumpers all falling all game long every game. When does that happen?

NEVER...

What are you talking about? STAT played great for the Knicks in the first half last year. Hell, he even played OK with Chauncey Billups, a guy who does not fit into D'Antoni and Amar'e's style of play at all.

It wasn't until he got quite possibly the worst starting PGs in the NBA that he really started to look bad.

SSj4Wingzero · Jan 19, 2012

MusketeerX said:
Do you remember Duhon in this offense. I'm pretty sure he shot 17% behind the three point arc in his last season as a Knick. I cringed everytime he touched the ball, and he was our PG....

Surprisingly, he actually shot 34.9%. Strange, right? It felt so much worse than that back then.

Duhomo averaged 5.6 assists per game in his second year here and 7.2 assists per game in his first year here. That is WAY better than Shump and Douglas right now

Tired of needing the perfect team in order for bum coach to win

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