Jeremy Lin

What to do with Lin?

  • Let him walk

    Votes: 16 28.6%
  • Resign him and keep him long term

    Votes: 27 48.2%
  • Resign him and trade him January 2013 with Amare

    Votes: 13 23.2%

  • Total voters
    56

mafra

Legend
I'm starting to think that trading for Felton doesn't necessarily mean NYK wont match offer sheet & bring LIN back.

LOOK, Shumpert is out until Jan-Feb. He may hit a bump in the road and be lost until March. In other words, who knows what we'll get from Shump this season.

Knicks need a SG. Simple as that.

JR Smith did the Knicks a real solid by signing so cheaply. I guess this is why news of HOU's offer to LIN irked him. He stayed with NYK at a bargain price so NYK would be able to build a winner. HOU offered that ridiculous contract, so if NY matches then it hurts us... But I digress. It wont hurt until 2014-2015.

JR Smith is best suited as the team's 6th man. I know Woodsen has faith in him; I realize he plays hard & plays defense... But he's too streak to be dependable. He's a volume shooter anyway. If he's instant offense off the bench, then he's one of the top 6th-men in the NBA. Our 2nd unit doesn't skip a beat. IF JR starts, then we still have a hole (depth at SG), and on some nights we even have a weakness from the SG position.

This means Knicks have 3 options:

1) Sign a vet to time-share at SG, holding things down until Shump returns, & serving as insurance in case Smith cannot consistently handle the role.

2) Go with JR, knowing we can rotate PGs into combo roles... We'll get by until Shump returns, even if it hurts us a game here or there. We know we can always swing a trade if necessary at the deadline.

3) KEEP LIN. As crazy as it sounds, this means you don't have to sign a vet and hope for the best; you don't have to depend on some team trading you a SG at the deadline; and if Shump doesn't return until March or even is out all year... all is well.

Why?

It's obvious, the Knicks will be built around their powerful front court, and they'll go the Ewing way when Ward & Childs were running around.

Felton & Lin would start.

Sure, it would be a work-in-progress at first, and might be an overkill this season... But Kidd is OLD (and the DUI might have swayed Dolan to not put all his eggs in this basket). WHo knows what Pablo is.

Retaining Jeremy LIN would ensure we have a PG. Between the 4 options, at least 1 will emerge this season.

Anyway, Kidd would be the backup... JR Smith the 6th-man.

Depending on matchups, chemistry and what not, Woodsen would have plenty of options and combinations to work with.

Felton runs the offense and works the pick-n-roll. Gritty vet who will compete. Kidd passes and can pop the kickout 3.

Pablo... we shal see.

But JR & LIN will both penetrate & dish, and create...


What's wrong with that?
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
^

A skeptics view. Nicely put, too.

What if Lin were to break out again at approx $8M a year? We can only prognosticate, but I certainly wouldn't be shocked if he were to turn out a 15 and 10 PG.

Would numbers close to that range afford him a little faith from you, RNYB?
 

skisloper

Starter
I'm starting to think that trading for Felton doesn't necessarily mean NYK wont match offer sheet & bring LIN back.

LOOK, Shumpert is out until Jan-Feb. He may hit a bump in the road and be lost until March. In other words, who knows what we'll get from Shump this season.

Knicks need a SG. Simple as that.

JR Smith did the Knicks a real solid by signing so cheaply. I guess this is why news of HOU's offer to LIN irked him. He stayed with NYK at a bargain price so NYK would be able to build a winner. HOU offered that ridiculous contract, so if NY matches then it hurts us... But I digress. It wont hurt until 2014-2015.

JR Smith is best suited as the team's 6th man. I know Woodsen has faith in him; I realize he plays hard & plays defense... But he's too streak to be dependable. He's a volume shooter anyway. If he's instant offense off the bench, then he's one of the top 6th-men in the NBA. Our 2nd unit doesn't skip a beat. IF JR starts, then we still have a hole (depth at SG), and on some nights we even have a weakness from the SG position.

This means Knicks have 3 options:

1) Sign a vet to time-share at SG, holding things down until Shump returns, & serving as insurance in case Smith cannot consistently handle the role.

2) Go with JR, knowing we can rotate PGs into combo roles... We'll get by until Shump returns, even if it hurts us a game here or there. We know we can always swing a trade if necessary at the deadline.

3) KEEP LIN. As crazy as it sounds, this means you don't have to sign a vet and hope for the best; you don't have to depend on some team trading you a SG at the deadline; and if Shump doesn't return until March or even is out all year... all is well.

Why?

It's obvious, the Knicks will be built around their powerful front court, and they'll go the Ewing way when Ward & Childs were running around.

Felton & Lin would start.

Sure, it would be a work-in-progress at first, and might be an overkill this season... But Kidd is OLD (and the DUI might have swayed Dolan to not put all his eggs in this basket). WHo knows what Pablo is.

Retaining Jeremy LIN would ensure we have a PG. Between the 4 options, at least 1 will emerge this season.

Anyway, Kidd would be the backup... JR Smith the 6th-man.

Depending on matchups, chemistry and what not, Woodsen would have plenty of options and combinations to work with.

Felton runs the offense and works the pick-n-roll. Gritty vet who will compete. Kidd passes and can pop the kickout 3.

Pablo... we shal see.

But JR & LIN will both penetrate & dish, and create...


What's wrong with that?



JR did not sign cheap....No team offered him another or better deal...!!!!!
As for JR penetrating....he went to the foul line less then 10 times in 70 shot attempts in the playoffs....
 

BillyHoyle

Benchwarmer
The 3rd largest shareholder of MSG stocks issued a sell rating on Lin today.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...sg-stock-gamco-s-marangi-says.html?cmpid=yhoo

Ouch!
So maybe it's not Dolan.


Yeah, that has been the exact reasoning for why Dolan wouldn't want to do this deal that i've been saying for the past 2 days. "Reporters" like Isola/Stephen A who attribute this decision to the "85 %" issue or 2nd contract negotiation need to realize they are just being made look like a fool by FO people who don't want to admit they want to save money.

The bottom line, though, is that reasoning is all from a financial standpoint directly from Dolan's wallet. Without Lin, Dolan is 60 million dollars richer, and the Knicks are good enouh to put people in the seats, maybe be a playoff team and win a series if we are lucky. With him, there is potential we haven't tapped, although a championship is still unlikely, and a large uptick in ticket revenue is unlikely.
 

BillyHoyle

Benchwarmer
Crazy⑧s;243134 said:
Would you mind enlightening me? I have an almost terminal case of can'tbe****editis when it comes to searching for such things.

Basically, Stephen A and Frank Isola have been tweeting and talking about how Lin is soft for not playing in the playoffs last season despite being, "85% healthy," and that this is one of the reasons the Knicks wouldn't match the offer.... Of course, neither of these guys has a medical degree and personally examined Lin or i guess understands how coming back from injury works...You can be "85%" and still not ready to play in an NBA game, for example, if you are still have instability making a lateral cut. Meniscus injuries don't heal fast (I have been around and seen many), but who cares, since it is a good story to run on and say he could have played but decided not, and apparently plenty of people (as exemplified by some posters on this board) will still believe you are credible.

That's why that Q&A you posted may have been the first real good journalism that i've seen on this issue...Somebody actually bothered to read the CBA and remove some misinformation that is floating around.
 

Paul1355

All Star
Not an overraction to the whole Lin situation(in fact I don't care about that at all) but damn that fool is a goddamn idiot, he isn't going to sell EVER and he's going to continue to run the franchise into the ground, unless we get a GM that kicks Dolan out of the FO like the Rangers GM did then were not going anywhere. I see one of three options: Either we put a hit out on him, we kidnap him or we lobotomize him or something.....

Dolan should do a God Father part 1 on Lin...."I'll give him an offer he can't refuse"

Dolan walks up to Lin, gun in one hand, contract in the other. Dolan stares at Lin and says "Sign or your brains will be on the contract"


Done.
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
Basically, Stephen A and Frank Isola have been tweeting and talking about how Lin is soft for not playing in the playoffs last season despite being, "85% healthy," and that this is one of the reasons the Knicks wouldn't match the offer.... Of course, neither of these guys has a medical degree and personally examined Lin or i guess understands how coming back from injury works...You can be "85%" and still not ready to play in an NBA game, for example, if you are still have instability making a lateral cut. Meniscus injuries don't heal fast (I have been around and seen many), but who cares, since it is a good story to run on and say he could have played but decided not, and apparently plenty of people (as exemplified by some posters on this board) will still believe you are credible.

That's why that Q&A you posted may have been the first real good journalism that i've seen on this issue...Somebody actually bothered to read the CBA and remove some misinformation that is floating around.

Right......So now injuries are determined by percentage, and by those that know jack? I couldn't imagine feeling any sense of self respect coming from being a narcissistic, fabricator/twister of truths.

Skip Bayless, Stephen A, Jalen Rose, Broussard, Isola and so on, could all be replaced and outmatched by members of this very board. You'd then have to go through the rigmarole of weeding out all the knob head fans that pay any attention to them afterward, of course.

Unbelievable.
 

Oldtimer

Rotation player
Good Thread

This has been a good thread. Many thanks to Crazy8s, CoolClyde and some others for moving it along with solid information. I knew there were some sort of "stretch" provisions in the new CBA, but did not know enough about them to see their possible application with respect to Lin's third year. Walt Frazier is right, worry about later, later. If it is personal with Dolan, he can trade Lin to a destination Lin would not like.

By the way, does anyone know a site with a complete copy of the new CBA?
 

platnumn

Benchwarmer
Crazy⑧s;243141 said:
Right......So now injuries are determined by percentage, and by those that know jack? I couldn't imagine feeling any sense of self respect coming from being a narcissistic, fabricator/twister of truths.

Skip Bayless, Stephen A, Jalen Rose, Broussard, Isola and so on, could all be replaced and outmatched by members of this very board. You'd then have to go through the rigmarole of weeding out all the knob head fans that pay any attention to them afterward, of course.

Unbelievable.

Add to that the fact that THE KNICKS THEMSELVES said they would hold Lin out unless they reached the 2nd round, and you really see how full of **** these reporters are.

The Knicks were protecting their own investment and thinking long-term by not allowing Lin to play in the first round. If the Knicks made it to the 2nd round and Lin still didn't play, it would be cause for skepticism.

...but I don't understand how you criticize Lin for not playing in the playoffs at 85% WHEN IT WASN'T EVEN HIS DECISION IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!

It's times like these that I hate the NBA news and all the misinformed commenters.
 

orangeblobman

Rotation player
:alert:Why the FORKS would Lin play in the Heat series?

Knicks had 0 chance of winning the series with or without Lin, makes no difference.

Guy did the smart thing by taking time to heal completely. I don't knock Lin for this, I support him.

LINNYLINNYLINNY COME BACK TO ME COME BACK TO NEW YORK MR LIN WE NEEEED YOU:alert:
 
Crazy⑧s;243124 said:
What if Lin were to break out again at approx $8M a year? We can only prognosticate, but I certainly wouldn't be shocked if he were to turn out a 15 and 10 PG.

Would numbers close to that range afford him a little faith from you, RNYB?

15 and 10 (on this team) we can get from Felton, Kidd and J.R., and at a discount price. Now I?m more worried about the dissention and type of chemistry Lin?s contract will bring if he doesn?t play like Michael Jordan. MJ was making 15 mil a year and JLin?s contribution comes nowhere near that. JLin and every one of his fans is building some tremendous pressure, will he be able to contain it? NO ONE knows! He?s a risk, an unnecessary one at that. I really don?t understand this whole thing?it?s totally Linconceivable?

To add... I wouldn't want to play or play any of my guys in the post season with a busted up knee....especially going into a contract year. The thought of re-injuring alone is enough for me to sit out. Some injuries you just don't rush, you are going to need your knees for more things in life other than playing BBall.
 

LINvincible

Benchwarmer
Add to that the fact that THE KNICKS THEMSELVES said they would hold Lin out unless they reached the 2nd round, and you really see how full of **** these reporters are.

The Knicks were protecting their own investment and thinking long-term by not allowing Lin to play in the first round. If the Knicks made it to the 2nd round and Lin still didn't play, it would be cause for skepticism.

...but I don't understand how you criticize Lin for not playing in the playoffs at 85% WHEN IT WASN'T EVEN HIS DECISION IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!

It's times like these that I hate the NBA news and all the misinformed commenters.

Will put.
It's the propaganda that management is throwing out to retarded fans. Fans that will listen to racist commentators like Steven A@@ Smith.
 

Paul1355

All Star
"Stretch Provision" makes Lin staying in NY more likely

From Larry Coon at ESPN....

"Sources say Knicks GM Glen Grunwald was infuriated by the Rockets' manipulation of the rules. When Lin's offer sheet arrived at the team's offices in New York City, staffers insisted that it needed to go to Grunwald personally.

But Grunwald wasn't in New York -- he was in Las Vegas attending the NBA Summer League. The same sources say Grunwald then dodged the delivery for a day and a half, finally accepting it on Saturday. Since league rules say the clock doesn't start on an offer sheet until it is received by the player's prior team, this gave the Knicks until Tuesday night to decide whether to keep Lin on the Knicks and accept the luxury-tax consequences.

In the meantime the Knicks traded for Felton -- presumably as a replacement for Lin to pair with new signee Jason Kidd -- and let it be known that they have decided not to match Houston's offer.

So are the Knicks serious, or is this just an outburst before they settle down, match the offer and bring Lin back to the Big Apple?

Logic dictates that it's actually the latter.

[+] Enlarge
Howard Smith/US Presswire
Lin's worth even more to the Knicks off the court than he is on.
Sure, the prospect of paying a fortune in additional luxury tax has to make the Knicks stop and think. But Lin is a moneymaking machine. Lin puts people in seats, both at home and on the road, and he is a merchandising bonanza. The stock of Knicks parent company MSG is up 20 percent since Linsanity began, with Nate Silver of the New York Times reporting that MSG's market capitalization has gained $600 million since that fateful day last February when Lin took over as the Knicks' starting point guard.

So what happens to MSG if the Knicks fail to retain Lin? Silver continued, saying, "as of late Monday morning, on the mere possibility that Lin might not be re-signed, MSG stock had lost about $50 million in market value." This was on a rumor -- imagine what the company's losses will be if losing Lin becomes a reality.

So if Lin plays up to his potential, he should more than make up for what it costs the Knicks to keep him. But what if Lin doesn't pan out? What if his 26-game sample proves to be an illusion, and he ends up as yet another flash in the pan? Will the Knicks be stuck with an enormous tax bill for an unproductive player?

If worse comes to worst, another new rule can help the team out. The "stretch provision" allows a team to waive a player and extend his salary payments over twice the number of remaining seasons, plus one. So if Lin is waived with one season remaining on his contract, he would be paid his salary over three years.

Here's the important part -- teams also may elect to stretch a waived player's salary-cap hit over the same number of years. So if Lin proves to be a disaster over the next two seasons, the Knicks can waive him, stretch the payment of his $14.8 million salary over three years, and reduce his salary-cap amount to about $4.9 million in each season
. This would reduce the team's tax bill significantly. If the Knicks are right at the tax line, a $4.9 million salary would translate to a $7.35 million tax bill. This is much more palatable.

In sum, Lin will continue to be a financial bonanza if he keeps playing up to his potential. If he ends up being a bust, the Knicks have the means to mitigate the damage. The potential upside is well worth the risk.

So logic dictates that sometime before midnight Tuesday night, the Knicks will inform the league that they are matching the Rockets' offer, and Jeremy Lin will remain a member of the Knicks.

As much as keeping Lin will cost them, losing him will cost more."
 
Last edited:

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
From John Hollinger at ESPN....

"Sources say Knicks GM Glen Grunwald was infuriated by the Rockets' manipulation of the rules. When Lin's offer sheet arrived at the team's offices in New York City, staffers insisted that it needed to go to Grunwald personally.

But Grunwald wasn't in New York -- he was in Las Vegas attending the NBA Summer League. The same sources say Grunwald then dodged the delivery for a day and a half, finally accepting it on Saturday. Since league rules say the clock doesn't start on an offer sheet until it is received by the player's prior team, this gave the Knicks until Tuesday night to decide whether to keep Lin on the Knicks and accept the luxury-tax consequences.

In the meantime the Knicks traded for Felton -- presumably as a replacement for Lin to pair with new signee Jason Kidd -- and let it be known that they have decided not to match Houston's offer.

So are the Knicks serious, or is this just an outburst before they settle down, match the offer and bring Lin back to the Big Apple?

Logic dictates that it's actually the latter.

[+] Enlarge
Howard Smith/US Presswire
Lin's worth even more to the Knicks off the court than he is on.
Sure, the prospect of paying a fortune in additional luxury tax has to make the Knicks stop and think. But Lin is a moneymaking machine. Lin puts people in seats, both at home and on the road, and he is a merchandising bonanza. The stock of Knicks parent company MSG is up 20 percent since Linsanity began, with Nate Silver of the New York Times reporting that MSG's market capitalization has gained $600 million since that fateful day last February when Lin took over as the Knicks' starting point guard.

So what happens to MSG if the Knicks fail to retain Lin? Silver continued, saying, "as of late Monday morning, on the mere possibility that Lin might not be re-signed, MSG stock had lost about $50 million in market value." This was on a rumor -- imagine what the company's losses will be if losing Lin becomes a reality.

So if Lin plays up to his potential, he should more than make up for what it costs the Knicks to keep him. But what if Lin doesn't pan out? What if his 26-game sample proves to be an illusion, and he ends up as yet another flash in the pan? Will the Knicks be stuck with an enormous tax bill for an unproductive player?

If worse comes to worst, another new rule can help the team out. The "stretch provision" allows a team to waive a player and extend his salary payments over twice the number of remaining seasons, plus one. So if Lin is waived with one season remaining on his contract, he would be paid his salary over three years.

Here's the important part -- teams also may elect to stretch a waived player's salary-cap hit over the same number of years. So if Lin proves to be a disaster over the next two seasons, the Knicks can waive him, stretch the payment of his $14.8 million salary over three years, and reduce his salary-cap amount to about $4.9 million in each season
. This would reduce the team's tax bill significantly. If the Knicks are right at the tax line, a $4.9 million salary would translate to a $7.35 million tax bill. This is much more palatable.

In sum, Lin will continue to be a financial bonanza if he keeps playing up to his potential. If he ends up being a bust, the Knicks have the means to mitigate the damage. The potential upside is well worth the risk.

So logic dictates that sometime before midnight Tuesday night, the Knicks will inform the league that they are matching the Rockets' offer, and Jeremy Lin will remain a member of the Knicks.

As much as keeping Lin will cost them, losing him will cost more."

This post is brilliant. The new CBA was supposedly designed to make it so that dead weight players like Eddy Curry didn't completely kill teams' chances to keep themselves competitive, and that's an excellent provision. Is there are a limit to the number of times the Knicks can use that stretch provision? If they use it on Jeremy Lin in Year 3 of his contract all they gotta do is make sure they're 5 million under the cap in Year 4 and then they don't pay any luxury tax for his contract that year at all so it's not that big a deal.

They can trade him, they can use this provision, or they can trade somebody else. Brilliant...only a complete idiot would refuse to match at this point.
 
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