Amare Stoudemire is a human pile of garbage

I'm not comparing Amare to Gortat at all. I just disagree with you that he isn't as good as his current stats say.

I would take Gortat over Stoudemire any day of the week. Anyone who wouldnt doesnt really watch basketball. Even if u wanna argue Amare is still superior offensively, Gortat is a far superior rebounder and defender.

Gortat has Nash as his pg. Amar'e does not. Everyone knows that for the knicks: offense translates to defense.

I don't why anyone hasn't mentioned that before but to me the main reason Amare struggles this year is SYSTEM we are playing.

Let's face it Amare is only effective in run'n'gun system when no defence is required. Just like during his Phoenix years with D'Antoni or last year with us. When D'Antoni came to NY Phoenix hired Terry Porter as head coach and Steve Kerr said that they should be a halfcourt team and what happened? Amare struggled to average 20 pts and he was 100% healthy until that eye injury happened. Next year they average 110 ppg and Amare is back to his normal self.

This year with addition of Chandler we play at much slower pace which makes amare useless because:

1. He doesn't play defence
2. He has no post game
3. His jumper is way off.
4. His one on one game is pretty bad too.

I'm pretty sure that if he was traded to a team like Denver he would be much more productive. In our current system he is lost and he won't get better because he just doesn't have instincts to play in that system.

KingStarbury3 said:

I would take Gortat over Stoudemire any day of the week. Anyone who wouldnt doesnt really watch basketball. Even if u wanna argue Amare is still superior offensively, Gortat is a far superior rebounder and defender.

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Man, can you imagine if we had Gortat to play next to/ backup Tyson Chandler? :smokin:

TakMan said:

This Gortat thing needs to be given less significance. Phoenix are not a good team so it makes sense that there will be a player over performing. Check out his career stats and tell me how many years he's been playing this way for.

Morris. Are we seriously going to discuss Morris? I know the press has been talking about his similarities to Barkley but unless I see it for myself I will not pay any attention to it. His defence is no where near as good and neither is his shooting. Will he develop? Dunno. It's all speculative.

As for Stoudamire being washed up. You seem to forget he was our most consistent player last season. He almost won us the first game of the Celtics series when Anthony was shooting 5-18 (Injury followed unfortunately). I understand people's demands for more of an effort on the defensive end (though we all knew he was never that type of player) however it still stands that had he not come to NY last summer, you would be viewing an entirely different roster to what we have at the moment. Anthony, Davis, Chandler, J.R Smith; they all followed. Let's see some respect for someone who is still the natural captain of the team. To call him washed up this early, and to bring current non-entities into the equation such as Morris, while others advocate getting players like Bargniani, is some of the most non-sensical crap I've read. Give him this season before you start ranting. He's earned this much patience from us.

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Its ridiculous you wrote that it's telling me you obviously never seen Morris play, therefor I can't take your post seriously anymore. Keef is Rasheed Wallace lite. He's never going to be a 20 point scorer, and he's never going to average 9 rebounds or 3 assists a game. His ceiling is a 15-17ppg, 6-8 REB, guy who adds toughness and outside shooting. He's only played 23 games and is a player you will hear about often.

Ask Orlando fans how they felt in Gortat. He was the best back up big man in the NBA who could of started on a lot of teams and he's showing that in Phoneix. Just stop talking about the Suns in general, doesn't make sense for you to discuss something you haven't researched about. If you think you know, then I don't think you know. Go find out about it.

BTW to the fools discrediting Gortat, how many of you guys seen Gortat play ? His defense, rebounding, intangibles, and toughness makes him a superior player to Amare, easily. He has a 21 PER this season. a career per of 17.7. In the past he would hack alot and pick up fouls. Now he's very smart on defense and spends more time on the court, which results to more production.

Respect for the captain of the team? What a bloodless statement. Amare is the laziest and most inactive player on the court. He's horrible at intagibles and he's scoring moves are predictable. We have to respect him because YOU say so? Get out of here with thatshit man.

Wow, dude has back and knee problems, had no real chance to gel with team because of the lock out issues, plays on a team filled with new faces (including his), his big bro just past away, and he wants to get the rest of the team involved.

Just those factors alone I can easily give him a pass this year. I may not like some things about Amare but I can clearly see his game is distrupted due to timing and injuries. With that said... next year I know I'm not going to be as supportive because I knew he was going to get broken down due to the coaches fast pace system. This system is for players with young strong healthy legs. When we gave all that money to STAT knowing he has leg issues...I knew it wasn't going to be an easy ride for him.

BTW Morris's role Phoneix has been replacing Channing Frye, his FG % is misleading, Gentry has him out on the 3pt line. For those who knows Morris' game, he's good in the post and his FG will only increase. He's a 40% 3pt shooter, so the fact you say he can't shoot is retarded. He has a jumpshot.

Real NY Baller said:

Wow, dude has back and knee problems, had no real chance to gel with team because of the lock out issues, plays on a team filled with new faces (including his), his big bro just past away, and he wants to get the rest of the team involved.

Just those factors alone I can easily give him a pass this year. I may not like some things about Amare but I can clearly see his game is distrupted due to timing and injuries. With that said... next year I know I'm not going to be as supportive because I knew he was going to get broken down due to the coaches fast pace system. This system is for players with young strong healthy legs. When we gave all that money to STAT knowing he has leg issues...I knew it wasn't going to be an easy ride for him.

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Those are timeless physical limitations. Amare's mobility has degressed greatly. Thats the argument here. You add that to his matador defense, inability to set quality screens or picks, poor at boxing out...you have a bum ass player. Thats all we're saying.

MeloforMayor said:

Man, can you imagine if we had Gortat to play next to/ backup Tyson Chandler? :smokin:

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Just a f*cking brute frontcourt, straightness heavyweight toughness, Oakley/Ewing type ish.

metrocard said:

Those are timeless physical limitations. Amare's mobility has degressed greatly. Thats the argument here. You add that to his matador defense, inability to set quality screens or picks, poor at boxing out...you have a bum ass player. Thats all we're saying.

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I recognize this. Just give the dude a little time. After all, he did make the Knicks relevant again.

As I said before...he gets no pass next year. He can only bury himself if he continues to play this way...hopefully he'll find his way...or it will be the highway.

Real NY Baller said:

I recognize this. Just give the dude a little time. After all, he did make the Knicks relevant again.

As I said before...he gets no pass next year. He can only bury himself if he continues to play this way...hopefully he'll find his way...or it will be the highway.

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Theirs no such thing as time for an aging power forward who relies on all of his athletic ability to score.

Real NY Baller said:

I recognize this. Just give the dude a little time. After all, he did make the Knicks relevant again.

As I said before...he gets no pass next year. He can only bury himself if he continues to play this way...hopefully he'll find his way...or it will be the highway.

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Makes no sense....

Unless he's ailing from an athletically debilitating injury, what's time gonna do except make him slower?

He gets no pass next year? You mean when his cap hit is $19,948,799? What you're saying is...once he's a year older and has a larger impact on the cap, if he doesn't perform then, and continues to regress before everyone's eyes....THAT'S when you sit down and say "maybe we should explore our options here."

I see...

nuckles2k2 said:

Makes no sense....

Unless he's ailing from an athletically debilitating injury, what's time gonna do except make him slower?

He gets no pass next year? You mean when his cap hit is $19,948,799? What you're saying is...once he's a year older and has a larger impact on the cap, if he doesn't perform then, and continues to regress before everyone's eyes....THAT'S when you sit down and say "maybe we should explore our options here."

I see...

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Exactly, i couldnt put it in better words.

I was one of the first dudes to say he's overrated for the pay he received, but we all know how he ended up on the Knicks. I agree that he's a shell of himself (atm), but I do think he's gifted enough to change his game and adapt to the situation he's in. I doubt anyone is going to trade for him so we are most likely stuck with him, what the coach needs to do is have him as one of the leaders of the second unit or place him around the paint to better utilize his skill set.

He's not a sharp shooter and he has no handle... so keeping him around the parimeter is a definite no no. His D is suspect, but I think that comes from shot legs and poor awareness. This can be remedy with time...as knowing when and where your teammates will be can help him improve his defensive game.

The biggist issue with Stat is his contract. I never thought he was worth that tag...it's just now many more people are starting to see that. If it wasn't for those big $$$...this would probably be a non issue. I whole heartly agree he should be earning that loot, but giving some of the circumstances...I'll give him some slack (4now).

time will tell...unfortunately, that time may not be on his side for long. I'm not going to bash him to much...he'll do a better job of that himself if he can't get his act together.

Again, I'll be suprise if someone trades us for him.

It's amazing how many fans have such strong feeling about Amare. I understand the frustration with his recent play, but to hate the man who helped build the team seems low.

This was a shitty contract from the get go and you're fools if you thought his knees would hold up. But without Amare coming to NYC this team would still be shit.

So instead of taking a crap on the guy any chance you get, why not try to support him and hope for the best? He's a 20mil man on our NYK, last thing we should want to do is destroy his confidence any more than it's already been damaged.

Limit his minutes and hope he finds his groove! If Amare can make himself productive, this team is unstoppable!

If we signed Gortat in 2009 I wonder if we would have kept Lee, and I wonder if more fans would have been for keeping Lee.

I feel kinda bad seeing all this bad talk about Amar'e, me being part of it. Calling him a human pile of garbage is a little much. He might be a decent person, and even though it seems like he has a lack of effort a lot of the time, I hate to see him hated like this.

Wake up, Amar'e, all it takes is effort.

I think once Amare's shot starts to hit more consistently, like we know it can, things will turn around for him. Defenders will have to come out to defend him, leaving more space to do his thing on the inside.

InGodsHands said:

I don't why anyone hasn't mentioned that before but to me the main reason Amare struggles this year is SYSTEM we are playing.

Let's face it Amare is only effective in run'n'gun system when no defence is required. Just like during his Phoenix years with D'Antoni or last year with us. When D'Antoni came to NY Phoenix hired Terry Porter as head coach and Steve Kerr said that they should be a halfcourt team and what happened? Amare struggled to average 20 pts and he was 100% healthy until that eye injury happened. Next year they average 110 ppg and Amare is back to his normal self.

This year with addition of Chandler we play at much slower pace which makes amare useless because:

1. He doesn't play defence
2. He has no post game
3. His jumper is way off.
4. His one on one game is pretty bad too.

I'm pretty sure that if he was traded to a team like Denver he would be much more productive. In our current system he is lost and he won't get better because he just doesn't have instincts to play in that system.

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While I think its way too soon to think about trading STAT, these are ALL very good points.

+1

atikiN said:

It's amazing how many fans have such strong feeling about Amare. I understand the frustration with his recent play, but to hate the man who helped build the team seems low.

This was a shitty contract from the get go and you're fools if you thought his knees would hold up. But without Amare coming to NYC this team would still be shit.

So instead of taking a crap on the guy any chance you get, why not try to support him and hope for the best? He's a 20mil man on our NYK, last thing we should want to do is destroy his confidence any more than it's already been damaged.

Limit his minutes and hope he finds his groove! If Amare can make himself productive, this team is unstoppable!

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When evaluating a commodity that's losing value rapidly, and is in an apparent downward spiral...using the words I highlighted is the exact opposite approach you take.

That's why you never see me go back to his original contract, or what he did last year.

All I'm saying is: His game is based on athleticism; his athleticism seems gone; in 2+ months he should have worked off some of the weight he put on, got a little leaner to regain some explosiveness....that has not happened; he's not getting any younger...so keeping a player who relies on athleticism more so than skill, as he enters his 30s, after two micro-fracture surgeries, with apparent signs of losing athleticism...you're not gonna convince me to keep him, even if he "turns it around."

Plus, if he was able to work out, and lift to put on muscle to protect his back, he could have put up shots. I remember seeing a post by someone on here saying "well if you guys were athletes, if you had played, you'd know that lifting weights affects your jump shot."

But at the very same time, that's why you lift every other day, and get shots up every single day. It's inexcusable for a dude making that kind of coin, in the NBA, with all sorts of resources at his disposal, to have gotten "stronger" and come back with his jumper all ****ed up.

That tells me that he was either just working on building muscle mass, and ignoring his jumper OR he did get his shots up after lifting...and his jumper is still inconsistent as shit. Either way...I still think the $18M, $19M, $21M, and $23M can be better spent.

Only way I change my mind is if he develops the career extenders: superior footwork and a post game. Otherwise, Amar'e at 33 will be some shit to behold.