New York Knicks @ Milwaukee Bucks 03.09 8:30PM

FireCoachD

Benchwarmer
Hmmm, Jeffries is the forgotten man during this Linsanity but he has been a beast on offensive board and great on defense.

Am I actually saying that Jared Jeffries and Tyson Chandler are the missing piece of a great Knicks team?

Very interesting: Although much maligned Landry Fields leads the NYK in +- this year at +94. Novak and Lin are a close second but have half the minutes of Fields, so their avg +- is actually Double that of Fields!! Here's where it gets interesting:

Jared Jeffries is only +7 with around the same minutes as Lin. So when Jeff has been on the floor the scoring has been exactly even.

Tyson Chandler is -33 while leading the team in minutes!

Amare is by farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr in last place with -77 out of the guys in the current rotation. 100 million dollars...
 

Forrest17

Rotation player
since melo's return 2-6. =/ I know D'antoni is going to get all the blame, and yes he deserves a lot. But the best the Knicks have played these last two years were 1. Before they traded for Melo and 2. When Melo was injured. It has to obvious to more people than just me right?

this. It is too bad we are stuck with this guy for god knows how long. Dolan will never get rid of him. Any other sane owner would at least be considering it at this point. Some people will say "oh knee jerk reaction you fans are just ridiculous," Well, honestly are we? It is pretty obvious over the past two seasons, we have been a good team that was good for the occasional long winning streak, yet with melo, there are two occasions where we loose 9/10 games.. Wtf is that? WE HAVE A LOOSING RECORD WITH MELO AND IT HAS BEEN OVER A YEAR. WIth out him, we have a winning record. Not only that we are more fun to watch. The melo dream is dead. Im sorry, you have to prove that you are a star player, you don't get to be grandfathered in as a star. We shouldn't have to wait around for 2 years for a guy making 20 million per to step up. He had one good game against the Celtics and we STILL LOST
 

FireCoachD

Benchwarmer
Other oddities:

Landry Fields is +100 on the road and -5 at home (Is he the anti-hero?)
Jlin is even on the road and +90 at home (Loves MSG :afro:)
Tyson Chandler is a whopping +78 at home and a whopping -109 on the road (come on refs really??)

Not putting too much stock in any of this.
 

VeryGundy

Benchwarmer
Very interesting: Although much maligned Landry Fields leads the NYK in +- this year at +94. Novak and Lin are a close second but have half the minutes of Fields, so their avg +- is actually Double that of Fields!! Here's where it gets interesting:

Jared Jeffries is only +7 with around the same minutes as Lin. So when Jeff has been on the floor the scoring has been exactly even.

Tyson Chandler is -33 while leading the team in minutes!

Amare is by farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr in last place with -77 out of the guys in the current rotation. 100 million dollars...

I still think that Fields should not be the starting SG. He is atrocious from downtown. In MDA's system, you need shooters who can space the floor and make shots.

The +/- rating does not really give accurate indication of a player's effectiveness on court, IMO. But I am shocked that Stat is a whopping -77 on the scale. I guess the +/- system can be accurate sometimes. LOL.
 

FireCoachD

Benchwarmer
this. It is too bad we are stuck with this guy for god knows how long. Dolan will never get rid of him. Any other sane owner would at least be considering it at this point. Some people will say "oh knee jerk reaction you fans are just ridiculous," Well, honestly are we? It is pretty obvious over the past two seasons, we have been a good team that was good for the occasional long winning streak, yet with melo, there are two occasions where we loose 9/10 games.. Wtf is that? WE HAVE A LOOSING RECORD WITH MELO AND IT HAS BEEN OVER A YEAR. WIth out him, we have a winning record. Not only that we are more fun to watch. The melo dream is dead. Im sorry, you have to prove that you are a star player, you don't get to be grandfathered in as a star. We shouldn't have to wait around for 2 years for a guy making 20 million per to step up. He had one good game against the Celtics and we STILL LOST

It is obvious to me that we are worse off with Melo right now. However it seems we have the most potential to advance far with this roster rather than our old one. But don't worry, if the trend continues, everyone will be forced to agree with you.:crossfingers:
 

FireCoachD

Benchwarmer
I still think that Fields should not be the starting SG. He is atrocious from downtown. In MDA's system, you need shooters who can space the floor and make shots.

The +/- rating does not really give accurate indication of a player's effectiveness on court, IMO. But I am shocked that Stat is a whopping -77 on the scale. I guess the +/- system can be accurate sometimes. LOL.

I agree. I have bashed Fields this entire year. But +- is fairly good tool to evaluate the Knicks, since we try so many different lineups. The heat stars all have roughly the exact same +300, lol

The shocking part about fields though is he has started most of the year and tends to play against the opponents stronger lineups. So you would think guys like Novak would have a huge edge on him. Maybe he is just a better player than i thought.
 

FireCoachD

Benchwarmer
Toney Douglas lead our team in +- over the entire year last year. He also happened to lead the NBA in 3s over the second half of last year.. And Dantoni laughs at the thought of playing him Lol grudge much???????
 

FireCoachD

Benchwarmer
+- is more accurate than you think though. When you think of a big time player on a team, who is the consensus best player, they tend to lead their team in +- . K love, Dirk, Regardless of how the team is performing. Just shows how pathetic Amare and Melo have been. A nice thing to consider is Kobe, then bynum, then gasol, that is the way i would rank the skill and impact of these players, and when you look at +- they fall in the same order. SMH at amare
 

VeryGundy

Benchwarmer
Toney Douglas lead our team in +- over the entire year last year. He also happened to lead the NBA in 3s over the second half of last year.. And Dantoni laughs at the thought of playing him Lol grudge much???????

I wish we could trade our TD for San Antonio's TD, just saying.
 

kinein

Benchwarmer
Not sure if anyone mentioned it..but why did Shumpert get less than 5 minutes?

He looked lost on the court, wasn't hitting shots, defense was not there, bad floor spacing and ball movement. He just had a bad game. Playing time is determined by performance. * I like shumpert - he just had an off game.

Though I think he would have been much better over Harrellson - who needs to lose 30-40lbs of fat.
 

iSaYughh

Starter
He looked lost on the court, wasn't hitting shots, defense was not there, bad floor spacing and ball movement. He just had a bad game. Playing time is determined by performance. * I like shumpert - he just had an off game.

Though I think he would have been much better over Harrellson - who needs to lose 30-40lbs of fat.

Harrelson really does looks like he packed it on. Sluggish is a good word to describe him right now. Partly, he likely just doesn't recovery quickly (from a conditioning standpoint) as well as many others after a layoff -- so the added fat on top of it has made him very sluggish and lumbering.

I'm worried for us because I don't view Amare and Melo as particularly intelligent or unselfish players, and when I look around the league at superstar tandems (or trifectas), the successful ones are ones where they are some combo of intelligent/unselfish (*and/or extremely good distributors).

Rose a very good example to contrast with Melo. Rose dominates the scoring duties for CHI on most nights, is their pure go to scorer (and not necessarily a shooter, just like Melo isn't either).

Yet, Rose's game meshes selfless play and intellgence and adaptability. Melo's does not.

Which is why this isn't even an issue of how many shots Melo is taking. Who knows, really -- the guy can be the most talented scorer in the game, and it's arbitrary anyways to say what he should be and shouldn't be taking in any given game.

The issue is much larger, much simpler, and less superficial -- and it is unmistakable to anyone who watches the games with an objective eye.

Right now we have the equivalent of two max-$ veterans going through a version of rookie/sophomore growing pains and cluelessness, where you're just waiting, as a fan, "for them to take the next step".

I actually want to keep Melo and ride this out w/ him. I think his basketball DNA is one where he isn't a loser, and is able to do what he has to do. He's also young enough, and healthy enough.

Amare doesn't necessarily possess any of these qualities. And looks imminently more replacable. And it is why I think we should look to trade him if at all possible, even if the return is cap space and a pick. It'd help hasten Melo's "growth", too.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Harrelson really does looks like he packed it on. Sluggish is a good word to describe him right now. Partly, he likely just doesn't recovery quickly (from a conditioning standpoint) as well as many others after a layoff -- so the added fat on top of it has made him very sluggish and lumbering.

I'm worried for us because I don't view Amare and Melo as particularly intelligent or unselfish players, and when I look around the league at superstar tandems (or trifectas), the successful ones are ones where they are some combo of intelligent/unselfish (*and/or extremely good distributors).

Rose a very good example to contrast with Melo. Rose dominates the scoring duties for CHI on most nights, is their pure go to scorer (and not necessarily a shooter, just like Melo isn't either).

Yet, Rose's game meshes selfless play and intellgence and adaptability. Melo's does not.

Which is why this isn't even an issue of how many shots Melo is taking. Who knows, really -- the guy can be the most talented scorer in the game, and it's arbitrary anyways to say what he should be and shouldn't be taking in any given game.

The issue is much larger, much simpler, and less superficial -- and it is unmistakable to anyone who watches the games with an objective eye.

Right now we have the equivalent of two max-$ veterans going through a version of rookie/sophomore growing pains and cluelessness, where you're just waiting, as a fan, "for them to take the next step".

I actually want to keep Melo and ride this out w/ him. I think his basketball DNA is one where he isn't a loser, and is able to do what he has to do. He's also young enough, and healthy enough.

Amare doesn't necessarily possess any of these qualities. And looks imminently more replacable. And it is why I think we should look to trade him if at all possible, even if the return is cap space and a pick. It'd help hasten Melo's "growth", too.

Re everything here...

Afuackingreed! :gony:
 

kinein

Benchwarmer
I actually want to keep Melo and ride this out w/ him. I think his basketball DNA is one where he isn't a loser, and is able to do what he has to do. He's also young enough, and healthy enough.

Amare doesn't necessarily possess any of these qualities. And looks imminently more replacable. And it is why I think we should look to trade him if at all possible, even if the return is cap space and a pick. It'd help hasten Melo's "growth", too.

nice post! I don't think they team should do any crazy trades though. I think these guys need to be given time to improve on their gameplay - I am seeing improvement ~ it just is difficult to watch us lose like that. I know I and my brothers are just as - or - more frustrated as Lin looked in that one clip.

I think people need to stop saying Melo needs to do the whole game-winning shot thing and other nonsense. He will need the rest of the season to work on his personal game and defense. He also is out of shape. The guy had several injuries that were not addressed until he finally sat out. Anytime a person goes through so many injuries and has to sit out means his health is declining - he couldn't even workout. To get back into decent form - takes 3 solid months, and I don't know about others but - the worry of a new injury or - re-injuring something that he has hurt and not had time to fully mend - is very very possible.

He needs to defer and play as best as he can. If your body is out-of-whack, and your basically out of shape and a healing-injury ridden athlete. All you have left is HEART * Teamwork. Need Melo to become passionate and urge Lin to lead - so he can just work on hitting at a higher % when the ball finds him. And most importantly work on his defensive game/rebounding ~ avoid stupid fouls. (note - I differentiate between hustle fouls and just useless fouls)
 

LA KNICKS GUY

Benchwarmer
Melo does deserve a lot of blame. His defense has been pure crap. Same with Stat. I seriously think our team is better without them. It's pretty sad when you're hoping your top-2 paid stars get hurt so your team can get some wins. It's also obvious that MDA has no control over Stat/Melo. Any NBA coach would find ways to motivate his stars and hold them accountable for their bad play. But of course MDA does nothing as usual and Mr. "so-called" clutch Melo couldn't even hit a foul shot today and hasn't hit his shots for weeks now... And I haven't seen Stat hit a covered shot for weeks. All of Stats points are coming off of open lane dunks, as soon as he's covered he misses badly, that is if he doesn't fumble the ball beforehand. ugh.

I'm so tired of these crappy stars. I'd take 5 Tyson Chandlers, F these sorry ass offensive players (Stat/Melo) who play NO defense but want the ball in their hands everytime up the court. They kill us on both sides of the court and I'd be happy if they were both gone. They can take D'Antoni with em.
If D'Antoni had balls, he would bench Stat and Melo for a game or two. We were on a hell of a run before these assholes came back in the line up. Anybody who defends these douche bags has blinders on and lives in the past.
 
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