Anthony unhappy with Knicks coach

Forrest17

Rotation player
Why does the system have to adjust to Melo? If Melo was that good he would be able to adjust and compliment the system, he wanted to come to NY; isn't it on him for not trying to work with what the system gives him?

I dont get it there is nothing to adjust to. The only difference between how Melo is playing now and how he played at Denver is

1) His shots aren't falling. He always did those Iso plays where he would spin around and take unbalanced shots.. But now they just aren't going in as much

2) He isn't DRIVING. Melo used to drive to the basket and attack, and dunk on people all the time. He doesn't do that anymore. Like at all. He plays like he is afraid to get hurt or something. Hes got NO legs right now.. Go back to every time he has at least tried to attack the basket, watch what happened. He gets rejected, HARD, every single time. THat is something D'Antoni has nothing to do with.

And you are right, he doesn't move without the ball. He just stands on the side and sticks his hand in the air telling Lin to pass it to him. This isn't the same as spacing the floor as what is common in the MDA system. Yeah he has players stand on the corners.. But generally those guys are very good 3 point shooters, which Carmelo is not.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
Why does the system have to adjust to Melo? If Melo was that good he would be able to adjust and compliment the system, he wanted to come to NY; isn't it on him for not trying to work with what the system gives him?

Good coaches adjust to their players.

Carmelo is currently adjusting to the system, the results are the poor performances that so many want to trade him for.

You can't take a 27 year old man, who's made his name being a bully on the low block, getting and-1s, averaging 8+ free throws a game -- take that same guy, and ask him to be a jump shooter on the perimeter, then cry bloody mary when it doesn't work.

What adjustments does Carmelo need to make for the system? He's already surrendered his post game, as to not bring extra bodies in the way of where the end result of the PnR would take place. He's taking the shots he's given in the system, he's just not a catch and shoot player, so he catches, holds, observes, then takes a bad shot or passes it.

But....if he's not a catch and shoot player....why pray-tell is he being asked to catch and shoot? Is it really as simple as "just please make your shots?" Can't you say that to anyone then? "Dwight, take these 3s and just make 'em dude."

These are not shots he's accustomed to taking. He needs to be featured, which means the actions, and results of the plays should be designed to put him in his most comfortable spot on the floor, and take the shots that has the highest likelihood's to yield higher field goal percentages.

It's seriously, that simple.

Yes we traded for him. yes he's making a lot of money, shouldn't those be the exact reasons why your coach doesn't assign him with the task of "spacing the court" for the sake of the offense?

In Denver the court was spaced for him. He's not even spacing the court here for any one particular player, it's for the sake of a philosophy.

I think the Knicks are the only team, paying two individuals 32 million dollars this season, and doesn't feature either one in their offense.

That's not Carmelo's fault, or Stoudemire's fault. That's a coaching flaw.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
I dont get it there is nothing to adjust to. The only difference between how Melo is playing now and how he played at Denver is

1) His shots aren't falling. He always did those Iso plays where he would spin around and take unbalanced shots.. But now they just aren't going in as much

2) He isn't DRIVING. Melo used to drive to the basket and attack, and dunk on people all the time. He doesn't do that anymore. Like at all. He plays like he is afraid to get hurt or something. Hes got NO legs right now.. Go back to every time he has at least tried to attack the basket, watch what happened. He gets rejected, HARD, every single time. THat is something D'Antoni has nothing to do with.

And you are right, he doesn't move without the ball. He just stands on the side and sticks his hand in the air telling Lin to pass it to him. This isn't the same as spacing the floor as what is common in the MDA system. Yeah he has players stand on the corners.. But generally those guys are very good 3 point shooters, which Carmelo is not.

Dude, the spread PnR means whoever is not involved with the PnR are spacing the court. We primarily run a 1-5 High PnR, which means our 2, 3, and 4 are getting the **** out the way and watching, ready to catch and shoot should their man collapse and help off of them.

Melo's assignment now is space, and be ready. He can't operate on the post because that bring an extra defender too close to the end goal of the PnR play. But as you stated, he's not a good 3-point shooter....so why is his assignment in this offense to space the court? He's not a spot up shooter like Joe Johnson, or Jared Dudley...so why is he out there? Clearly he doesn't fit in this system....but we run it anyway? Ok.

Melo has great foot work in the post, are you kidding? He kills people with those up and unders, draws contact, and gets to the line. When he gets those and-1's it's even better.

When he got into the post in Denver and went to work, there was movement off the ball. He could either take his man one on one before the double got there, or he could move the ball to a cutting teammate coming off a screen or something.

The Knicks just stand and watch.
 

red32

Benchwarmer
There is no reason why we can't post-up w/Melo, especially when he's got a mis-matched! We can run p-n-r and set plays - this gives different looks for opponent to defense. Running p-n-r all the time is too predictable.
 

Red

TYPE-A
Why does the system have to adjust to Melo? If Melo was that good he would be able to adjust and compliment the system, he wanted to come to NY; isn't it on him for not trying to work with what the system gives him?

No. Because as we've seen, as Melo tries to "fit into this system" he simultaneously renders his skill-set useless.

Mattr of fact we've seen many player's games and their subsequent impact be reduced in favor of this approach; both player and team as a whole.

Data shows this system sabbotages defense including rebounding and has an adverse effect on fundamentals such as passing and boxing-out.

Finally the proof is in the pudding. D'Antoni doesn't have the clout to force players to adjust to his system, especially from a defensive stand point. Melo has thirved in other systems.

Ultimately this (Melo & MDA) is a bad match for both. But supply & demand dictates that we can find a better fitting system easier and quicker rather than finding a better SF (or any other player) to fit this unproven mess.

Sorry. The stats show it's NOT Melo, it's the many deficiencies of this coach and his approach.

An overhaul of the complete roster, has made any player excuses null and void. Same shit different toilet.
 
Good coaches adjust to their players.

Carmelo is currently adjusting to the system, the results are the poor performances that so many want to trade him for.

You can't take a 27 year old man, who's made his name being a bully on the low block, getting and-1s, averaging 8+ free throws a game -- take that same guy, and ask him to be a jump shooter on the perimeter, then cry bloody mary when it doesn't work.

What adjustments does Carmelo need to make for the system? He's already surrendered his post game, as to not bring extra bodies in the way of where the end result of the PnR would take place. He's taking the shots he's given in the system, he's just not a catch and shoot player, so he catches, holds, observes, then takes a bad shot or passes it.

But....if he's not a catch and shoot player....why pray-tell is he being asked to catch and shoot? Is it really as simple as "just please make your shots?" Can't you say that to anyone then? "Dwight, take these 3s and just make 'em dude."

These are not shots he's accustomed to taking. He needs to be featured, which means the actions, and results of the plays should be designed to put him in his most comfortable spot on the floor, and take the shots that has the highest likelihood's to yield higher field goal percentages.

It's seriously, that simple.

Yes we traded for him. yes he's making a lot of money, shouldn't those be the exact reasons why your coach doesn't assign him with the task of "spacing the court" for the sake of the offense?

In Denver the court was spaced for him. He's not even spacing the court here for any one particular player, it's for the sake of a philosophy.

I think the Knicks are the only team, paying two individuals 32 million dollars this season, and doesn't feature either one in their offense.

That's not Carmelo's fault, or Stoudemire's fault. That's a coaching flaw.

Dude? You came back to the light:beer:. The good side. I always enjoy reading your stuff, but you had me confused with the trade STAT phase you were going through.

This post is spot on. I've felt the same way, but I dont always articulate my message as well as you do.

Keep it up...
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
You really have to be the type of person to believe in the Kony, Osama, Saddam, 9/11, WW1, WW2 hype if you think D'Antoni is just the problem at this point and I don't even like D'Antoni as the Knicks coach.

Melo has been HORRIBLE all season.

Exactly. At first, I thought it was Antoni, but how many times does Carmelo Anthony have to go 8-21 from the field before people realize that Melo=Jello?

If Anthony was in Puerto Rico, they'd be calling him a Tembleque.

Antoni has to go, but so does JELLO.
 
Exactly. At first, I thought it was Antoni, but how many times does Carmelo Anthony have to go 8-21 from the field before people realize that Melo=Jello?

If Anthony was in Puerto Rico, they'd be calling him a Tembleque.

Antoni has to go, but so does JELLO.

You think if MDA played to Melo's strengths he'd go 8-21 from the field?
 

Den318

Benchwarmer
Melo is garbage this year. You can just let him shoot the ball by himself around the court and he would still shot 40%. Let not waste our time talking about this useless junk. Trade or just give him away already.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Why does the system have to adjust to Melo? If Melo was that good he would be able to adjust and compliment the system, he wanted to come to NY; isn't it on him for not trying to work with what the system gives him?


yes..

Melo is a bitch. Plain and simple.

He's a whiny bitch.


He could play in this system. He could do it..

But he just doesn't want to.

He's not a good team guy. He's always pouting, looking frustrated.


I'm sick of it. He IS Melo Yellow. He is a problem.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
You think if MDA played to Melo's strengths he'd go 8-21 from the field?

Yes. A coach cannot force a player to perform poorly. Al Harrington and David Lee played well under Antoni's crappy system, and so did Stoudemire last year. Melo averaged 26 points on over 45% shooting under coach Antoni last season, and it was his first year playing under the Antoni system.

Excuses are for the weak. Melo's making 20 million dollars a year. He has to learn how to pass the ball and not settle for 3 pointers. Melo was great at driving to the basket and making mid-range jumpers AS A KNICK last year. So what happened THIS YEAR?

My theory is that JELLO just got past his prime faster than most players. It happened to Elton Brand, Baron Davis, Steve Francis, Tracy McGrady, and now the Puerto Rican Tembleque.
 

iSaYughh

Starter
Yes. A coach cannot force a player to perform poorly. Al Harrington and David Lee played well under Antoni's crappy system, and so did Stoudemire last year. Melo averaged 26 points on over 45% shooting under coach Antoni last season, and it was his first year playing under the Antoni system.

Excuses are for the weak. Melo's making 20 million dollars a year. He has to learn how to pass the ball and not settle for 3 pointers.

+1

I was saying this since the mo Amare was signed, too: wanna know what he needs to be "coached" on and do to not look like a defenseless matador stiff?

JUMP. Box out. Track the ball.

If you don't do those things as a NBA veteran "all star" making 20M a yr you re simply some combo of lazy, low IQ, gutless.

These guys are being treated like mentally disabled and handicapped schoolchildren by many here, with the amount of excuses and rationalizing.
 
Yes. A coach cannot force a player to perform poorly. Al Harrington and David Lee played well under Antoni's crappy system, and so did Stoudemire last year. Melo averaged 26 points on over 45% shooting under coach Antoni last season, and it was his first year playing under the Antoni system.

Excuses are for the weak. Melo's making 20 million dollars a year. He has to learn how to pass the ball and not settle for 3 pointers. Melo was great at driving to the basket and making mid-range jumpers AS A KNICK last year. So what happened THIS YEAR?

My theory is that JELLO just got past his prime faster than most players. It happened to Elton Brand, Baron Davis, Steve Francis, Tracy McGrady, and now the Puerto Rican Tembleque.

You think if MDA drew up 5-10 post up plays for Melo a game he'd shoot more layups and less 3 pointers?

You think if MDAs offense wasnt so freelance Melo would do better?

I saw Fields jack up a 3 last night with about 2:00 remaining when we needed a score BADLY. Is this OK?

You think its OK for everyone on the team to shoot whenever they get ready to, but Melo shouldnt?

Melo shoot 43% for the Knicks from 3 point range last year. Now him shooing 3's is a problem in a wide open offense. LOL

CMon man...
 

Red

TYPE-A
Yes. A coach cannot force a player to perform poorly. Al Harrington and David Lee played well under Antoni's crappy system, and so did Stoudemire last year. Melo averaged 26 points on over 45% shooting under coach Antoni last season, and it was his first year playing under the Antoni system.

That's because his teammate Chauncey Billups is a vet who has earned enough respect to supersede and overcome this limited, self-defeating approach.

Excuses are for the weak. Melo's making 20 million dollars a year. He has to learn how to pass the ball and not settle for 3 pointers. Melo was great at driving to the basket and making mid-range jumpers AS A KNICK last year. So what happened THIS YEAR?

Melo knows how to pass, better than Amare I might add. The easy answer is Melo all-of-a-sudden forgot how to play.

The logical answer when given an opportunity to watch for yourself is a system that a) relies on a specific player (PG) to be the catalyst and set everyone up resulting in b) poor continuity, too many needless passes, increased turnovers, inability to showcase a player = Melo not fitting w a guard like Lin who withered under pressure, doesn't command respect, doesn't play D, and turns the ball over without consistently setting players up.

My theory is that JELLO just got past his prime faster than most players. It happened to Elton Brand, Baron Davis, Steve Francis, Tracy McGrady, and now the Puerto Rican Tembleque.

Right.:thumbsup:

That's too implausible to begin with. Ask youself... Would Melo look like this and have those stats on LA? Or in BOS instead of Pierce? Nope.

Wrong System. Move on.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Melo shoot 43% for the Knicks from 3 point range last year. Now him shooing 3's is a problem in a wide open offense. LOL

CMon man...

You just proved my point. Anthony played well last year, under Antoni, so it's obvious that there's more than coaching to why he isn't playing well.

Had Antoni been the reason why Melo was struggling, he would have averaged the same horrible numbers last year that he's putting up this year.

That's because his teammate Chauncey Billups is a vet who has earned enough respect to supersede and overcome this limited, self-defeating approach.

Melo knows how to pass, better than Amare I might add. The easy answer is Melo all-of-a-sudden forgot how to play.

The logical answer when given an opportunity to watch for yourself is a system that a) relies on a specific player (PG) to be the catalyst and set everyone up resulting in b) poor continuity, too many needless passes, increased turnovers, inability to showcase a player = Melo not fitting w a guard like Lin who withered under pressure, doesn't command respect, doesn't play D, and turns the ball over without consistently setting players up.

Right.:thumbsup:

That's too implausible to begin with. Ask youself... Would Melo look like this and have those stats on LA? Or in BOS instead of Pierce? Nope.

Wrong System. Move on.

Melo can pass better than Amar'e? Big deal. Melo also jacks up over 18 shots per game.

Carmelo Anthony wouldn't look like this on the Lakers, because Kobe would throw him off the team if he tried jacking up over 18 shots per game.

I think you don't understand what I am saying. Obviously Antoni sucks and his system is trash. Everyone on my poll agrees with that.

My point is that Anthony played well under Antoni last year and sucked this year. Having Billups is not really the answer, because Jeremy Lin is a pass first point guard, too.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Yes. A coach cannot force a player to perform poorly. Al Harrington and David Lee played well under Antoni's crappy system, and so did Stoudemire last year. Melo averaged 26 points on over 45% shooting under coach Antoni last season, and it was his first year playing under the Antoni system.

Excuses are for the weak. Melo's making 20 million dollars a year. He has to learn how to pass the ball and not settle for 3 pointers. Melo was great at driving to the basket and making mid-range jumpers AS A KNICK last year. So what happened THIS YEAR?

My theory is that JELLO just got past his prime faster than most players. It happened to Elton Brand, Baron Davis, Steve Francis, Tracy McGrady, and now the Puerto Rican Tembleque.


What FUCCKING SYSTEM are u guys talking about....
a street-ball spread-out wide so I can go one on one system or the greenlight
to shoot 3-balls system for 48 minutes, 82 games a season, for 4 seasons....
Either u guys never played basketball or u guys are receiving a 6 figure check like
Breen, Clyde, Tripuka, ect.

A system comes with DEFENSE too....
for 3 straight seasons oponents scored at will in the paint....90% of the 24 losses
this season comes from giving 2nd and 3rd chance shots....do u call that a defensive-
system or a poor defense and poor rebounding team...
Did any of u forget why Dantoni was KICKED out of Phoenix???
 

Paul1355

All Star
This might be true, Melo is not an easy guy to deal with, espcaially if you are losing and the coach is a wuss.

Mike D needs to go. I see Melo talk more with Mike Woodson than he does with Mike D.


Woodson should have these guys playing better basketball than this clown.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
OH Yeah....I'm the Knicks Fan who didnt want to give up Wilson Chandler for Melo....
I wanted to keep David Lee or trade Allstar-Lee for a high scoring SG-Monta Ellis.

Now that we have Melo we have to work with Melo at complimenting our guards, so our
guards co-exist with Melo....putting down our guards early in the season only lead to
this 18-24 record.
 

LeFlume

All Star
You just proved my point. Anthony played well last year, under Antoni, so it's obvious that there's more than coaching to why he isn't playing well.

Right On my friend. He has a D-leaguer running the point. Lin rather pass to his buddy Fields than to our star players.
 

KingCharles34

All Star
Yes. A coach cannot force a player to perform poorly. Al Harrington and David Lee played well under Antoni's crappy system, and so did Stoudemire last year. Melo averaged 26 points on over 45% shooting under coach Antoni last season, and it was his first year playing under the Antoni system.

Excuses are for the weak. Melo's making 20 million dollars a year. He has to learn how to pass the ball and not settle for 3 pointers. Melo was great at driving to the basket and making mid-range jumpers AS A KNICK last year. So what happened THIS YEAR?

My theory is that JELLO just got past his prime faster than most players. It happened to Elton Brand, Baron Davis, Steve Francis, Tracy McGrady, and now the Puerto Rican Tembleque.

Great work in this thread. Time to buy out FatMelo

Atari's another bum thats past his prime, its unfortunate that we the fans have to suffer while these bums are gettin paid millions. Carjello has turned into the Burger King while Atari has become a fashion queen

smh.gif
 
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