What's the real truth?

What's the real truth regarding MDA and defense?

  • MDA advised at least some of his players to save their energy for offense.

    Votes: 2 8.3%
  • The team or certain player quit on MDA

    Votes: 9 37.5%
  • Mda's lack of interest in defense lead to the players lack of interest in playing defense

    Votes: 13 54.2%

  • Total voters
    24
OK fellas I'm happy as a pig in crap that MDA is gone. I really dont want to rehash past issues, but seeing the Knicks absolutely dominate on the defensive end less than 24 hours after MDA stepped down and continue to play way above average defensive got me to thinking. How does this happen?

I remember debating with KBlack and others last year that we could take the same exact team and put a defensive minded coach in MDAs place and we'd play better defense. Not to toot my on horn, but I was right. He blamed it on the players. Which leads me to my poll question.

I truly think (I dont know for sure) that MDA told his team or certain players (his stars)to save themselves for the offensive end. STATS turnaround and effort really points to this fact.

Your thoughts?
 
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RunningJumper

Super Moderator
I dunno, Amar'e tried on defense last season, at least a good portion of it. Whether or not Mike told them to save themselves or not, the players should always give 100% on both ends. Doing that because of your coach is just looking for an excuse.
 
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I dont know jumper. If your coach explicitly asks you to save yourself for his offense I'm inclined to think you're going to save yourself.

It's mind boggling the effort on defense we have now as compared to a week ago. It could be that MDAs demise was no ones fault but his own...
 

TakMan

Rotation player
Wasn't Woodson our defensive coach up until D'Antoni's resignation? What was the point of having him there if D'Antoni would tell the players to forget everything they are being told regarding defence? Realistically the Knicks playing style has not changed much thus far under Woodson. What has changed is the level of intensity and focus. Clearly something/someone was acting in a de-stabilising, de-motivating manner whilst D'Antoni was coach. Woodson appears to be a no nonsense coach. I think he would not tolerate as much shit as D'Antoni did. Also the players now have no excuse to underperform. Now D'Antoni's gone all eyes are on them, and them solely.
 

KnickKnack

Rookie
To me, I think the team just flat out quit on him. Not that they just didn't play at all, but they didn't give it the right amount of effort as the other team. I don't think it happened all at once when Melo came back, but I do think it was 3 games into the 8 game losing streak.

We don't know what words were being spread around the locker room - but I'm sure Melo has enough pull with other players to get them on his side. I do think Lin and Amare gave it a good amount of effort, but at the same time, I think they were uncomfortable with what was going on with Melo and D'Antoni.

Overall, Melo didn't want to be traded, but he wanted D'Antoni out. D'Antoni tried to use Melo as a scapegoat, and Dolan wasn't having it. With D'Antoni out, the players know that Mike Woodson will be out with him, if the team doesn't turn it around.

Thus the 5 game winning streak.

It's not hard to see the players like Mike Woodson. They play hard for him. On top of that, I think the first part of the 5 game win streak was just for him. Now, they're winning and playing with intensity because they LIKE winning, they're use to it - and they don't want it to stop under Woodson.

Woodson Losing Multiple games = he's out and another coach will come in at the end of the season. If you were Woodson, wouldn't you let your players, who already admire you, know that if they don't start winning games, then you'll be out? I sure would - at least to give an effort for someone who may lose their job.

My 2c.
 

clumsy

Rotation player
D'Antoni played only 8 players. All starters in the high 30 minute range. I believe that's the biggest reason.
 

Newbie

Benchwarmer
To me, I think the team just flat out quit on him. Not that they just didn't play at all, but they didn't give it the right amount of effort as the other team. I don't think it happened all at once when Melo came back, but I do think it was 3 games into the 8 game losing streak.

We don't know what words were being spread around the locker room - but I'm sure Melo has enough pull with other players to get them on his side. I do think Lin and Amare gave it a good amount of effort, but at the same time, I think they were uncomfortable with what was going on with Melo and D'Antoni.

Overall, Melo didn't want to be traded, but he wanted D'Antoni out. D'Antoni tried to use Melo as a scapegoat, and Dolan wasn't having it. With D'Antoni out, the players know that Mike Woodson will be out with him, if the team doesn't turn it around.

Thus the 5 game winning streak.

It's not hard to see the players like Mike Woodson. They play hard for him. On top of that, I think the first part of the 5 game win streak was just for him. Now, they're winning and playing with intensity because they LIKE winning, they're use to it - and they don't want it to stop under Woodson.

Woodson Losing Multiple games = he's out and another coach will come in at the end of the season. If you were Woodson, wouldn't you let your players, who already admire you, know that if they don't start winning games, then you'll be out? I sure would - at least to give an effort for someone who may lose their job.

My 2c.

I agree. It was all bad timing until Woodson stepped in. I think it was just the way things rolled since the beginning of the season. And, that a newbie like Lin stepped into the limelight and into a leadership role after the injuries. I also think that D'Antoni did the best under the circumstances. There were so many different variables to work with.

But, I also think that he didn't encourage defensive play, and that is what's bringing the players together into a cohesive group.
 

NYk_Reloaded718

★KNICKS-TAPE★
I think some players just quit on MDA, while MDA was head coach the team showed some flashes of playing tough D. Dont get me wrong this was not a consistent basis thing but their were nights where our Defense was up to par.

I think the main problem was MDA's lack of holding our stars accountable on the defensive end night in and night out, and when your leaders don't make an attempt to play defense it rubs off on some of the other players not playing defense
. Everyone know MDA is all about his offense, yes Woody was the assistant coach but thats all he was the assistant coach their was only so much he could do.

Mike woodson has these boys playing hard on both ends of the floor and will give you a ear full when you do something wrong. I was watching Stoudemire doing a interview from a reporter i think it was after practice, the man was sweating and huffing and puffing ( this is during the Woody era) how many times have you seen that during the (MDA ERA) probably never.

I voted players giving up on MDA but i think it had to do more with a little of Both players giving up on MDA & MDA's Lack of interest on defense.


Under Head coach Woodson we now have a Happy " All smiles Carmelo" who's willing to get it done on both ends, We also have a motivated Amare on the defense end so at the end of the day +11111111 for Woody and Penalties for MDA -------1.
 
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Paul1355

All Star
He didn't care about defense as much as offense because his philosophy was to score more than the other team which meant scoring so much that defense doesn't matter so much.

When it came to half court sets, Mike D's offense was terrible without nash and amare running pick and rolls.
 

fender0577

Rotation player
C'ANToni just sucks, plane and simple.Even a chimpanzee would have made some in game adjustments during some of those losing streaks, but he didn't=GTFO.:peace:
 

TakMan

Rotation player
C'ANToni just sucks, plane and simple.Even a chimpanzee would have made some in game adjustments during some of those losing streaks, but he didn't=GTFO.:peace:


His record with the Suns: Year/Games/Wins/Losses


PHX 2003–04 61 21-40

PHX 2004–05 82 62-20

PHX 2005–06 82 54-28

PHX 2006–07 82 61-21

PHX 2007–08 82 55-27

To state that he just sucks is a blatant exaggeration. There were many factors that hindered his ability to succeed with the Knicks and one of them was his refusal to adjust or re-think some of his strategies. A good coach has a game plan that can work, a great coach can adjust his game plan when it is not working.

Open mindedness is something D'Antoni clearly didn't have; having said that, it was not all his fault.
 

Red

TYPE-A
OK fellas I'm happy as a pig in crap that MDA is gone. I really dont want to rehash past issues, but seeing the Knicks absolutely dominate on the defensive end less than 24 hours after MDA stepped down and continue to play way above average defensive got me to thinking. How does this happen?

I remember debating with KBlack and others last year that we could take the same exact team and put a defensive minded coach in MDAs place and we'd play better defense. Not to toot my on horn, but I was right. He blamed it on the players. Which leads me to my poll question.

I truly think (I dont know for sure) that MDA told his team or certain players (his stars)to save themselves for the offensive end. STATS turnaround and effort really points to this fact.

Your thoughts?

Coaching is really a psychological challenge. The two most important intrinsic traits are:

1. Motivation (getting players to play above their levels)
2. Persuasion (getting players to buy in)

To achieve this, a coach must learn to earn the respect of his players while learning and seeing everyone as an individual. Different personalities equates to different approaches.

In my assessment of interviews, body language, and performance I've concluded:

1. The majority of the leaders in the org. and player leaders DID NOT RESPECT D'ANTONI, therefore

2. The majority did not buy in

This experiment/experience has proven that in New York, D'Antoni was a fish-out-of-water.

His tactics were nullified, meaning

His propensity to double-talk didn't work with all the media attention and analytical eyes on him.

His propensity to speak in vague ambiguous terms was exposed and translated.

And his resume was put into perspective.

Thus D'Antoni had no outs. His bag of tricks was empty. He approached New York like this was Phoenix, and it most certainly is not.

Now, finally I have to say, all those MDA supporters who we knew had NO Basketball Sense, and tried to argue...

Their credibility is shot. YOUR COACH did the one thing that
solidifies all of the knowledgeable posters opinions of MDA...

HE QUIT!

Again, I hate to say it, but we told you so.

Even if under Woody we make mistakes, lose a few, etc...

1. I want the same extended chance you gave MDA, or you look bias

2. It won't be because we beat ourselves like we used to
 

fender0577

Rotation player
His record with the Suns: Year/Games/Wins/Losses


PHX 2003–04 61 21-40

PHX 2004–05 82 62-20

PHX 2005–06 82 54-28

PHX 2006–07 82 61-21

PHX 2007–08 82 55-27

To state that he just sucks is a blatant exaggeration. There were many factors that hindered his ability to succeed with the Knicks and one of them was his refusal to adjust or re-think some of his strategies. A good coach has a game plan that can work, a great coach can adjust his game plan when it is not working.>Mike has none of those qualities.

Open mindedness is something D'Antoni clearly didn't have
having said that, it was not all his fault.
But your talking out of both sides of your mouth though, you just explained basically every reason why he sucks.:gony:
 

BananaSauce

Benchwarmer
His record with the Suns: Year/Games/Wins/Losses


PHX 2003–04 61 21-40

PHX 2004–05 82 62-20

PHX 2005–06 82 54-28

PHX 2006–07 82 61-21

PHX 2007–08 82 55-27

To state that he just sucks is a blatant exaggeration. There were many factors that hindered his ability to succeed with the Knicks and one of them was his refusal to adjust or re-think some of his strategies. A good coach has a game plan that can work, a great coach can adjust his game plan when it is not working.

Open mindedness is something D'Antoni clearly didn't have; having said that, it was not all his fault.

Monkey can coach better. Fact during those days they had poor defensive ranking ,last in offensive rebounds and rank high turnovers. They were a highly efficient offensive team only with Nash making him look good every inch of the way.

Think about it...We were ranked 10th in defense that went 2-8. Now , they are showing showing defensive to win games without dantoni. Who knew? Lol
 

TakMan

Rotation player
But your talking out of both sides of your mouth though, you just explained basically every reason why he sucks.:gony:


He had a setup that worked for his game plan. It didn't only work, it worked really well. They reached the conference finals twice. That's no easy task for a Western Conference team. He is a good coach but his inability to adjust to different environments keeps him from being a top coach.



Monkey can coach better. Fact during those days they had poor defensive ranking ,last in offensive rebounds and rank high turnovers. They were a highly efficient offensive team only with Nash making him look good every inch of the way.

Think about it...We were ranked 10th in defense that went 2-8. Now , they are showing showing defensive to win games without dantoni. Who knew? Lol

Funny how they didn't manage much with Nash after D'Antoni left. No-one is saying this wasn't the right time for D'Antoni to leave; but that's a far cry from categorically stating he's absolute rubbish. If a coach is deemed rubbish after managing consecutive 65%+ win seasons in the West, then Woodson must be deemed below rubbish. The Knicks needed a coaching change to reinvigorate them; D'Antoni clearly failed to inspire this set of players. I hope Woodson can continue to inspire them as he has done thus far.
 

BananaSauce

Benchwarmer
He had a setup that worked for his game plan. It didn't only work, it worked really well. They reached the conference finals twice. That's no easy task for a Western Conference team. He is a good coach but his inability to adjust to different environments keeps him from being a top coach.





Funny how they didn't manage much with Nash after D'Antoni left. No-one is saying this wasn't the right time for D'Antoni to leave; but that's a far cry from categorically stating he's absolute rubbish. If a coach is deemed rubbish after managing consecutive 65%+ win seasons in the West, then Woodson must be deemed below rubbish. The Knicks needed a coaching change to reinvigorate them; D'Antoni clearly failed to inspire this set of players. I hope Woodson can continue to inspire them as he has done thus far.

Who was on that roster is still playing for the suns? Plus consideration that Nash is older now. Give him Equivalent talent as before plus with grant hill. I bet they would be rocking the west.
 
We have plenty of fans that think the players quit. I dont understand how some of you can think that when I've never seen this type of defensive intensity since MDA was hired. Never.

So that kinds blows that theory out of the water.

I wouldnt be surprised if some time soon we hear about MDA telling players to save their effort for the offensive end...
 
If they did quit on him...then there must be a pretty good reason for doing so. I for one saw plenty of reasons why I would have quit on him too.

He wears his players out by playing a small rotation in an flawed uptempo system, he actually thinks offense is more important than defense...but didn't really know how to use his scorers, he fails at making smart gametime adjustments, his subbing of players was untimly and poor, he's soft and lacks real NBA coaching abilities, no accountablity of self or others, can not properly evaluate the talent he has or the talent he faces on other teams, can't design plays other than some wack sceen to free up a 3 pt shot, and he's always bitching at the ref's...as if it was their fault for the team sucking.
 

BachaCho

Benchwarmer
Its simple, Melo and the team was giving up or gave up on D Antoni, probally more Melo then anyone and when your stars, "your leaders" arent giving it there all then the rest of the team wont. The team just wanted a fresh start and they got it by getting Woodson. Now there playing harder because of that and Woodson is probally a more liked coach then D antoni was to the team

Plus Woodson holds players accountable. Makes much better in game decisions, adjustments and rotations. Also helps that he is all defense first (came from 2004 Detriot Pistons defense juggernaut team) standing next to legendary coach LB.. So he knows what the hell he is doing, he persaudes, motivates so that is why we are winning games right now...

Is it mostly D Antoni leaving that all the sudden they are energized and motivated and playing great? Yeah id say its about 70% that, but its also Woodson's ability to coach and hold players accountable and make right decisions etc, Woodson's coaching ability has played a major factor in our 5 game win streak

We would of most likely lost in Philly and at Pacers, D antoni would of kept Chandler in instead of matching the 76ers small line up, D Antoni wouldnt of had said a word to Fields when he blew a open man (pause) left him wide open in the corner for a 3 and he would probally still left him in the game
 
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