You Have to Deal Melo AND Amar'e, Then We Can Build Around Lin

orangeblobman · May 11, 2012

KBlack25 said:
How do you know he is always improving?

He has had 8 weeks of NBA basketball.

You have no frame of reference, and are now just making stuff up.

I see what you're saying. He has not been around for a long time.

I am saying he is improving because that's what he has done all his career. He works on his game constantly and that's a big reason why he is in this situation. That's what I'm basing it on, not making stuff up.

I don't think it's some crazy gamble to say that he will play at a high level for a long time.

KBlack25 · May 11, 2012

orangeblobman said:
I see what you're saying. He has not been around for a long time.

I am saying he is improving because that's what he has done all his career. He works on his game constantly and that's a big reason why he is in this situation. That's what I'm basing it on, not making stuff up.

I don't think it's some crazy gamble to say that he will play at a high level for a long time.

How do you know that?

All career?!?! REALLY? All 8 weeks of relevancy that he's had? How do you know he's going to get better and improve from where he's at right now? You don't.

But you're prob. right. We should prob. dump 2 of our 3 max contracts for a guy with 8 weeks of NBA Experience and a second round pick who took 3 steps backwards.

orangeblobman · May 11, 2012

KBlack25 said:
How do you know that?

All career?!?! REALLY? All 8 weeks of relevancy that he's had? How do you know he's going to get better and improve from where he's at right now? You don't.

But you're prob. right. We should prob. dump 2 of our 3 max contracts for a guy with 8 weeks of NBA Experience and a second round pick who took 3 steps backwards.

You wouldn't be dumping them in the water. The goal is to bring back better fitting pieces.

How much doubt is there in your mind about Lin being our long-term solution at the Point?

All career, yea, from Harvard to Golden State to New York. His history is a story of fight and determination. We saw what he did last summer with the training, how much work he put into becoming a physically stronger player.

I can't think of a single report of Carmelo doing anything significant on his game or his body, ever.

If Melo came in lean and constantly played with effort, I'd say keep him, we can improve. But the guy is a looffa.

fender0577 · May 11, 2012

KBlack25 said:
How do you know that?

All career?!?! REALLY? All 8 weeks of relevancy that he's had? How do you know he's going to get better and improve from where he's at right now? You don't.

But you're prob. right. We should prob. dump 2 of our 3 max contracts for a guy with 8 weeks of NBA Experience and a second round pick who took 3 steps backwards.

Black i don't know why your even responding to this guy.

KBlack25 · May 11, 2012

orangeblobman said:
You wouldn't be dumping them in the water. The goal is to bring back better fitting pieces.

How much doubt is there in your mind about Lin being our long-term solution at the Point?

All career, yea, from Harvard to Golden State to New York. His history is a story of fight and determination. We saw what he did last summer with the training, how much work he put into becoming a physically stronger player.

I can't think of a single report of Carmelo doing anything significant on his game or his body, ever.

How do you know Lin hasn't been the same player all throughout his career, he just got a chance for minutes during that 8-week run? You don't. So you don't know that he's been improving. You are assuming he has because that's what the NY Tabloids say. But there's no evidence to show he improved markedly from when he was in Harvard to when he got to the NBA because the body of work isn't there. You don't have a control sample to compare it to, any samples of his old work are too small a sample size, even smaller than his meager run in the NBA so far.

How much doubt in my mind that Lin is the long-term solution at point? Depends on the other guys on the roster. If I'm counting on him to be the piece we build around - there's plenty of doubt. He's probably a 14-7 player, who couldn't handle a full court press (I guess that never came up in his extensive workout sessions during his career). If I'm counting on him to be a facilitator I think he could be fine.

KBlack25 · May 11, 2012

fender0577 said:
Black i don't know why your even responding to this guy.

You're right.

This is ridiculous.

orangeblobman · May 11, 2012

KBlack25 said:
How do you know Lin hasn't been the same player all throughout his career, he just got a chance for minutes during that 8-week run? You don't. So you don't know that he's been improving. You are assuming he has because that's what the NY Tabloids say. But there's no evidence to show he improved markedly from when he was in Harvard to when he got to the NBA because the body of work isn't there. You don't have a control sample to compare it to, any samples of his old work are too small a sample size, even smaller than his meager run in the NBA so far.

How much doubt in my mind that Lin is the long-term solution at point? Depends on the other guys on the roster. If I'm counting on him to be the piece we build around - there's plenty of doubt. He's probably a 14-7 player, who couldn't handle a full court press (I guess that never came up in his extensive workout sessions during his career). If I'm counting on him to be a facilitator I think he could be fine.

It began with lonely 9 a.m. workouts in downtown Oakland in the fall of 2010; with shooting drills last summer on a backyard court in Burlingame, Calif.; and with muscle-building sessions at a Menlo Park fitness center. It began with a reworked jump shot, a thicker frame, stronger legs, a sharper view of the court ? enhancements that came gradually, subtly, through study and practice and hundreds of hours spent with assistant coaches, trainers and shooting instructors over 18 months.
Quite simply, the Jeremy Lin who revived the Knicks, stunned the N.B.A. and charmed the world ? the one who is averaging 22.4 points and 8.8 assists as a starter ? is not the Jeremy Lin who went undrafted out of Harvard in June 2010. He is not even the same Jeremy Lin who was cut by the Golden State Warriors on Dec. 9.
Beyond the mystique and the mania lies a more basic story ? of perseverance, hard work and self-belief.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/s...remy-lin-as-a-point-guard.html?pagewanted=all

Beyond being a long-term solution at Point, I view Lin as an emerging star that will be better than 25 out of 30 starting Point Guards in the league.

KBlack25 · May 11, 2012

orangeblobman said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/s...remy-lin-as-a-point-guard.html?pagewanted=all

Beyond being a long-term solution at Point, I view Lin as an emerging star that will be better than 25 out of 30 starting Point Guards in the league.

Right.

Because everyone knows the NY Times, like every other newspaper in the existence of the world, doesn't sensationalize stories to get readers.

There's no evidence to base it on besides newspaper features meant to write a story and sell newspapers. When he comes into camp and next season a revamped and totally improved player and we see it on the floor, that's when I'll believe that he's improved.

Until then, there's no data to backup your claims.

fender0577 · May 11, 2012

orangeblobman said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/s...remy-lin-as-a-point-guard.html?pagewanted=all

Beyond being a long-term solution at Point, I view Lin as an emerging star that will be better than 25 out of 30 starting Point Guards in the league.

Paul, Rondo, Williams, Westbrook, Rose, who's he going to be better than, in that group?Please tell me.

KBlack25 · May 11, 2012

fender0577 said:
Paul, Rondo, Williams, Westbrook, Rose, who's going to better than, in that group?Please tell me.

Irving, Rubio as well.

fender0577 · May 11, 2012

KBlack25 said:
Irving, Rubio as well.

Yup, forgot about them.

orangeblobman · May 11, 2012

fender0577 said:
Paul, Rondo, Williams, Westbrook, Rose, who's he going to better than, in that group?Please tell me.

Rondo for sure.

As far as NYTimes being a newspaper, I agree that they are a newspaper. But Lin doesn't just drop out of the sky and start dropping those numbers if he is not always improving at his game. To say that he is the same player now that he was when he first came into NBA, I think that's a slap in the face. In the case of Anthony, you would be hard-pressed to name some significant improvements in his game since he came into NBA league.

KBlack25 · May 11, 2012

orangeblobman said:
Rondo for sure.

As far as NYTimes being a newspaper, I agree that they are a newspaper. But Lin doesn't just drop out of the sky and start dropping those numbers if he is not always improving at his game. To say that he is the same player now that he was when he first came into NBA, I think that's a slap in the face. In the case of Anthony, you would be hard-pressed to name some significant improvements in his game since he came into NBA league.

Why is it a slap in the face?

This guy has played EIGHT WEEKS in the NBA!!!

There's no body of work from before then to compare it to from before he started getting minutes, so it's impossible to say whether or not he has improved at all.

orangeblobman · May 11, 2012

KBlack25 said:
Why is it a slap in the face?

This guy has played EIGHT WEEKS in the NBA!!!

There's no body of work from before then to compare it to from before he started getting minutes, so it's impossible to say whether or not he has improved at all.

I'm not clear on what is on the hardwoods here. Are we saying that Lin has not improved at all since he first came to NBA league? How can we say that against the objective improvements in his strength and size? He's not the same skinny kid that he was at Harvard.

fender0577 · May 11, 2012

orangeblobman said:
Rondo for sure.

As far as NYTimes being a newspaper, I agree that they are a newspaper. But Lin doesn't just drop out of the sky and start dropping those numbers if he is not always improving at his game. To say that he is the same player now that he was when he first came into NBA, I think that's a slap in the face. In the case of Anthony, you would be hard-pressed to name some significant improvements in his game since he came into NBA league.

Dude, do you actually watch basketball?Rondo is the best pure PG in the game, he might be the second best all around player in the game, behind Lebron.I like LIN a lot, but he needs to develope more, before i even mention him with those 5 players i mentioned, did you see what MIA did to him, with BUM *ss Mario chalmers.Let's hold off on the "build around LIN" chants for now, he has a long way to go.

KBlack25 · May 11, 2012

orangeblobman said:
I'm not clear on what is on the hardwoods here. Are we saying that Lin has not improved at all since he first came to NBA league? How can we say that against the objective improvements in his strength and size? He's not the same skinny kid that he was at Harvard.

I'm not saying he hasn't. I'm saying there's no evidence to prove that he has.

And there certainly isn't sufficient evidence to dump two of our three max contracts to build around him.

orangeblobman · May 11, 2012

fender0577 said:
Dude, do you actually watch basketball?Rondo is the best pure PG in the game, he might be the second best all around player in the game, behind Lebron.I like LIN a lot, but he needs to develope more, before i even mention him with those 5 players i mentioned, did you see what MIA did to him, with BUM *ss Mario chalmers.Let's hold off on the "build around LIN" chants for now, he has a long way to go.

Lin proved he can be the man over the Linsanity stretch, before Melo came back.

I understand Linsanity was something like 10 or 9 games, but it happed. We can't say that it didn't happen or that it was invalid for some reason. You can either do what Lin did or you can't; Lin can be the man.

orangeblobman · May 11, 2012

KBlack25 said:
I'm not saying he hasn't. I'm saying there's no evidence to prove that he has.

And there certainly isn't sufficient evidence to dump two of our three max contracts to build around him.

Maybe my choice of words about "building around" Lin is the source of some misunderstanding.

Just saying that Lin is a guy you lock-in and move forward, adding pieces to the team. The Nuggets grabbed a few pieces, locked them in, and keep building.

I think keeping Amar'e and Melo is more of a hindrance than a happy thing for the Knicks team.

fender0577 · May 11, 2012

orangeblobman said:
Lin proved he can be the man over the Linsanity stretch, before Melo came back.

I understand Linsanity was something like 10 or 9 games, but it happed. We can't say that it didn't happen or that it was invalid for some reason. You can either do what Lin did or you can't; Lin can be the man.

So all it takes is 10 games to prove you can be the man, so the 9 years of 25PPG, from the 2 guys your trying to dump, means nothing.LOL.

orangeblobman · May 11, 2012

KBlack25 said:
I'm not saying he hasn't. I'm saying there's no evidence to prove that he has.

And there certainly isn't sufficient evidence to dump two of our three max contracts to build around him.

His body is evidence. Guy has made amazing strides in his strength and conditioning.

You Have to Deal Melo AND Amar'e, Then We Can Build Around Lin

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