Smith leaning toward staying with Knicks (will opt-in)

skisloper

Starter
Why are you taking stats from ONE game to support an argument against a player returning for a whole season??? During the winning streak, JR was effective and usually had a good stat line with steals, assists and rebounds. Obviously he was relied on more once injuries took place. His role (scoring) was basically increased with Novak being a non factor and injuries.

WE were working without a passing pg, so naturally there would be more ISOs and shots for players who could create their own shot. That's not ideal but that's the hand we were dealt.

You're not listening to what AF is saying! JR, while streaky, is worth more than what we are giving him. He is also a threat off the bench and has the respect of defenses around the league. He's a good player that we should try to keep on our bench. Personally, I think we need to upgrade the starting SG (SHOOTING) position cause Fields isn't cutting it in that role.


Let me be clear. As I said in another thread we need a kick-ass SG.
Fields should 100% NOT be in the starting rotation.
However against the Heat we need hustle guys and someone who will get the little things done...
JR's inability to grab a board or assist in 36 minutes was pathetic.
YES JR is atheltic and at times looks great but how many seasons must we go through that we have players that are inconsistant...
U need winners and to me JR is not a winner.
Fields was used in this argument because I think anyone would have been better then JR.
 

skisloper

Starter
Lmao@ hyping up fields off one game cut it out son, Fields has no business even being in a playoff rotation let alone a starter in the playoffs. Fields was a no show vs Boston and was a no Show vs the heat (pat him on the ass for his one decent game cool) Jr smith is a Proven player known for knocking big shots down when necessary, probably the most athletic dude we had on the team next to shumpert. Fields never been the same since the melo trade, just like you can pull up JR's Stats i can do the same for Fields not only for this series but for last season series im not impressed with fields at all get over the one game because you obviously have nothing else to yap about but that one game.

If you really want to Sniff up (STATS)

JR SMITH
Post-season averages
07-08 ppg = 18 | FG% =53| 3p% = 31 | FT% = 83| mins = 27 | Rebs= 1.8
08-09 ppg 14 | FG% = 43 | 3% = 35 | FT% =54 | mins = | Rebs = 3.3
09-10 ppg = 11.2 | FG% = 36| 3p& =35| FT% = 87|mins = 26| rebs = 3.3

Mind you next post season dude shot 42% behind the arc in the post season i can go on and on but it's very RETARDED comparing JR and Fields

ready to see FIELDS CRAP ???

LANDRY FIELDS
post- season Averages
11-11 ppg = 1.8 | FG% 20 | 3p% = 0 YES (0) | FT%=16| REB= 1.3|mins = 17
11-12 ppg = 7.2 | FG% =48| 3p%= 20| FT% = 71| reb = 3.0 | mins = 23

So yea i would take JR over Fields any day of the week in the playoffs and during regular season it aint hard to tell, stop judging a player who came to the team in the middle of the season. JR is a proven player in the playoffs, Fields Game and STATS showed he's a never a threat in the playoffs.


Dont give me the mumbo jumbo about how im basing off stats because your doing the exact same thing.

Yep JR is sometimes selfish, sometimes you have to be SELFISH and shoot the ball when your team is passing you the ball while the shot clocks running down because they cant do SQUAT with the ball, have you been watching the knicks, every game like i have? Iv'e seen beyond multiple times this knicks team force the ball into JR's hands with the shot clock running down because he was the only option to get a shot off. You know what they call people like jr? SCORING PUNCHES off the bench.

Lets see exactly see how far "team ball" gets you when you don't have a go to guy to bail you out of situations. Dont get me wrong team ball is a major part. But actually getting the ball in the THE BASKET is also a major PART OF BASKETBALL. Before JR came to the knicks what did we see from our bench alot of ball movement from east to west going absoloutely NOWHERE right? smh get your head out the gutter and actually think no matter how good your team ball is... YOU NEED a guy that you can go to for those clutch baskets when the shot clocks running out.

Im done after because, i see no point in this debate... i already laid out my facts. My point in all of this is that if you can have JR SMITH back on the KNICKS next year for under a shade of 2.5 then thats clearly a STEAL for what he brings to the table and if you dont consider that a Steal then i dont know what to say to you, maybe you just simply hate JR Smith


Im not debating Fields in any way being our starter.
I am simply saying you and everyone else seems to think a player that is selfish 50% of the time, has a low Bball IQ, Makes stupid tweets after a horrible performance is a guy who will make us a better team....
You right we should keep JR......U at all wondering with these great stats that you presented and they are good ....so they why or why would JR not opt out...Based on your love for him he should be offered at least 5 miilion a year........

For the record I have no interest in keeping Fields if he is over 2 million a year. And if his shot does not get better I would send him packing or the bench......


Also in the Heat series 64 shots and got to the line ZERO times.....BBall 101 come on you are smarter then that
 

NYk_Reloaded718

★KNICKS-TAPE★
And that is exactly the problem. If everybody is just trying to create their own shots, we will never get open shots. You need 5 guys on the floor trying to create shots for their team mates.
Right, but if you look at the knicks, ALOT of the time they relied on JR to create a shot for them when the shot clock ran out because they couldn't get their own shots or tried to move the ball around but got nowhere with the movement. I agree there should be more ball movement but the blame cannot be fully put onto JR smith because of the lack of ball movement, i've seen him willing to pass plenty of times, when the defense stiffs up i see the ball tossed to Melo or JR for a miracle shot, and when they dont deliver the blame goes directly to them for not making the shot. Just like you cant have everyone trying to create there own shots you also cant have a 4 players on the court and only one be able to make things happen offensively.

1. it exposes the flaws in your offense and 2. it makes it easier for you to be guarded

just look at the Pacers, They have MULTIPLE players on the court who start that can make things happen as well as fire off the bench that can make things happen.

We had "JR" "MELO" and 50% healthy Baron Davis. I dont care how good your ball movement is SOMEBODY ELSE has to step up and we just did not have that due to injuries. But to blame the series on JR is ridiculous. Like i said before when we had the "MOBB DEEP" bench that consisted of Baron, Shump, novak , Jr and jeffires not a single sole complained. Going after Andre miller this summer to replace Baron easily fixes the issue and the tears go away.
 
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NYk_Reloaded718

★KNICKS-TAPE★
Im not debating Fields in any way being our starter.
I am simply saying you and everyone else seems to think a player that is selfish 50% of the time, has a low Bball IQ, Makes stupid tweets after a horrible performance is a guy who will make us a better team....
You right we should keep JR......U at all wondering with these great stats that you presented and they are good ....so they why or why would JR not opt out...Based on your love for him he should be offered at least 5 miilion a year........

For the record I have no interest in keeping Fields if he is over 2 million a year. And if his shot does not get better I would send him packing or the bench......


Also in the Heat series 64 shots and got to the line ZERO times.....BBall 101 come on you are smarter then that
:alert: alright bro, yes if JR wants to opt in for a shade under 2.5 mill of course we say no, we dont need the extra bench help because our bench is just dandy already we have the best bench in the world, When the starters roll out the game and fields and novak with most likely some crap vet min pg is in the game ill be spinning in my chair cheering and watching the ball go east to west because nobody else can make their way to the basket.... reread this thread i clearly said "I wouldn't be thrilled if JR came back, but if he opts in and plays for such little money that's helpful for us" where do you get "i have love for him" :teeth:... I bash any knick player when the obviously suck but of course.... yes u were there for every GT, and kept your eye on my every post, that you can judge my view of a player i understand
 

skisloper

Starter
:alert: alright bro, yes if JR wants to opt in for a shade under 2.5 mill of course we say no, we dont need the extra bench help because our bench is just dandy already we have the best bench in the world, When the starters roll out the game and fields and novak with most likely some crap vet min pg is in the game ill be spinning in my chair cheering and watching the ball go east to west because nobody else can make their way to the basket.... reread this thread i clearly said "I wouldn't be thrilled if JR came back, but if he opts in and plays for such little money that's helpful for us" where do you get "i have love for him" :teeth:... I bash any knick player when the obviously suck but of course.... yes u were there for every GT, and kept your eye on my every post, that you can judge my view of a player i understand

I guess I am assuming Grunwald will fill the bench up with the same skill he did with Lin and Novak. I also think we did good in the draft with Shump and Jorts.....

I guess I would have felt better about JR if Woodson sat him so yes its not entirely his fault......Woodson scares me as well...

I just want winners on the team and JR's attitude does not strike me as that type of player.......

Listen if the union wins and we keep Novak and Lin for nothing then we should be able to upgrade our roster with maybe Nash or a real SG....


and at this point of Jerome Jordan will see no action I am sure him and fields or douglas can be shipped in a nice package,
 

NYk_Reloaded718

★KNICKS-TAPE★
I guess I am assuming Grunwald will fill the bench up with the same skill he did with Lin and Novak. I also think we did good in the draft with Shump and Jorts.....

I guess I would have felt better about JR if Woodson sat him so yes its not entirely his fault......Woodson scares me as well...

I just want winners on the team and JR's attitude does not strike me as that type of player.......

Listen if the union wins and we keep Novak and Lin for nothing then we should be able to upgrade our roster with maybe Nash or a real SG....


and at this point of Jerome Jordan will see no action I am sure him and fields or douglas can be shipped in a nice package,
Agree.jpg


Grunwuld does have the smarts to make the right choices, Our roaster was to depleted to sit guys and expect other guys to step in and help our only real option was Toney Douglas and he's awful to watch. I agree Woody puts TO MUCH trust in JR at times, when Fields was playing well he did keep JR in to long i agree on that end. But that was only one game, we were not winning the series regardless. weather Fields or JR was in because our bench was on handicap mode.

Im not a big fan of JR either, i like him coming off the bench for 2.5 mill or whatever he's getting thats a bargain IMO. a FULL training camp and i think he'd be just fine, Woodson seems to have him in check, he just over uses him sometime.

Iv'e been saying that lol, if the Union wins were in great Shape we wrap up Lin, and novak then make a run at Nash or Andre Miller either will be fine i prefer Nash but, Miller is just as crafty as Nash maybe not as much of a dominant floor general but he is a guy that can come in and get players the ball in their sweet spots. Then we can maybe sign a guy like Parker for vet min or try and bait camby for the vet min then sign a SG/SF in the second round. The options really open up to a higher level. Plus on top of that Novak and Lin said they were willing to take less to play in New york so we'll def have room to improve.

Id like to see Fields/jerome/TD packaged for a solid player that could contribute for us this season. doubt it happens though... but you never know
 

21 Shump Street

Benchwarmer
Agree.jpg


Grunwuld does have the smarts to make the right choices, Our roaster was to depleted to sit guys and expect other guys to step in and help our only real option was Toney Douglas and he's awful to watch. I agree Woody puts TO MUCH trust in JR at times, when Fields was playing well he did keep JR in to long i agree on that end. But that was only one game, we were not winning the series regardless. weather Fields or JR was in because our bench was on handicap mode.

Im not a big fan of JR either, i like him coming off the bench for 2.5 mill or whatever he's getting thats a bargain IMO. a FULL training camp and i think he'd be just fine, Woodson seems to have him in check, he just over uses him sometime.

Iv'e been saying that lol, if the Union wins were in great Shape we wrap up Lin, and novak then make a run at Nash or Andre Miller either will be fine i prefer Nash but, Miller is just as crafty as Nash maybe not as much of a dominant floor general but he is a guy that can come in and get players the ball in their sweet spots. Then we can maybe sign a guy like Parker for vet min or try and bait camby for the vet min then sign a SG/SF in the second round. The options really open up to a higher level. Plus on top of that Novak and Lin said they were willing to take less to play in New york so we'll def have room to improve.

Id like to see Fields/jerome/TD packaged for a solid player that could contribute for us this season. doubt it happens though... but you never know

I agree that Woodson did overuse him a bit towards the end of the season. We have to realise that there was a hidden agenda since Woodson took over, I really don't think it's unfair to assume that Woodson was leant on by the FO to give JR ample playing time and a large role so it increased his chances of staying.

As far as his attitude, he is showing signs of improvement. If anyone can control him, it's Woodson. In the exit interviews, JR said he wanted to improve his defense and ball handling skills. Still talk till he proves otherwise but when has JR EVER said anything like that before.

As far as everyone ripping on him for his 0 assist, 0 rebound effort in the playoffs GTFO. JR got 7 rebounds or more several times for us, and I saw him reach 5 assists like 10 times (even had a 9 assist game). I agree he needs to cut down on his shotjacking, but if he comes back for the 2.5m, he's a steal.
 

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
JR has already shown a ton of improvement in his defense. We know he's a streaky shooter and Woodson has probably depended on him too much but honestly it's not really Woodson's fault because he literally has no consistent scorer outside of Melo since Amar'e's play so far this year has been awful.
 

MeloforMayor

BALL DON'T LIE
JR has already shown a ton of improvement in his defense. We know he's a streaky shooter and Woodson has probably depended on him too much but honestly it's not really Woodson's fault because he literally has no consistent scorer outside of Melo since Amar'e's play so far this year has been awful.

Agreed. His defense has notably improved compared to his time in Denver. Plus, I don't expect him to get the same volume of shot attempts like he did against our series vs MIA. The only reason that he did was because no one but Melo could make shots and we were out of reliable PG, making JR our primary ball handler.
 

skisloper

Starter
I agree that Woodson did overuse him a bit towards the end of the season. We have to realise that there was a hidden agenda since Woodson took over, I really don't think it's unfair to assume that Woodson was leant on by the FO to give JR ample playing time and a large role so it increased his chances of staying.

As far as his attitude, he is showing signs of improvement. If anyone can control him, it's Woodson. In the exit interviews, JR said he wanted to improve his defense and ball handling skills. Still talk till he proves otherwise but when has JR EVER said anything like that before.

As far as everyone ripping on him for his 0 assist, 0 rebound effort in the playoffs GTFO. JR got 7 rebounds or more several times for us, and I saw him reach 5 assists like 10 times (even had a 9 assist game). I agree he needs to cut down on his shotjacking, but if he comes back for the 2.5m, he's a steal.

I will be the first to say JR can play. And yes once again if he can make smarter decisions, Not foul the guy behind the 3 point line and jack up fewer shots he would be a great off the bench player. My issue is do we need not see a common pattern taking place. A player is perfect for the Knicks if they change their game....I just do not see JR doing that, After watching him this season it appears he has a low basketball IQ or is just a selfish player. Yes he is good but we need winners to get us to the NBA finals.

Lets just agree to disagree.
 

nyk_nyk

All Star
I will be the first to say JR can play. And yes once again if he can make smarter decisions, Not foul the guy behind the 3 point line and jack up fewer shots he would be a great off the bench player. My issue is do we need not see a common pattern taking place. A player is perfect for the Knicks if they change their game....I just do not see JR doing that, After watching him this season it appears he has a low basketball IQ or is just a selfish player. Yes he is good but we need winners to get us to the NBA finals.

Lets just agree to disagree.

So which "winners" would you replace him with? Keep in mind the salary situation.

Let's hear this...
 

STAT1

Starter
So which "winners" would you replace him with? Keep in mind the salary situation.

Let's hear this...

I am not going to call this man a "winner", but if we miss out on JR Smith, I think a suitable replacement who's the same age would be Shannon Brown. He's every bit as athletic as JR is, & per minutes played I feel he could put up pretty much identical stats. His game is less based on isolation & more based off motion without the ball, which I think is what we need more of with Melo filling the ISO role on most plays. He excels in the open court & is a terrific finisher on the break. He could be a very dynamic player for the Knicks at the Garden & would provide plenty of highlight reel dunks that the Knick fans would go crazy for. Shump would start & Brown would be a nice 2nd option off the bench for some instant offense. Just imagine Jeremy Lin leading the break with Landry & Shannon Brown running on the wings. That's an alley oop dunk waiting to happen.
 

KnickolasMGL

Benchwarmer
JR is too expensive and unreliable,
it is better to find a workhorse type player ,someone like Reggie Evans and another role player for the same amount of money.
 

nyk_nyk

All Star
JR is too expensive and unreliable,
it is better to find a workhorse type player ,someone like Reggie Evans and another role player for the same amount of money.

How is JR too expensive? He's only slightly above what he got from us, considering his playoff performance. I still think he adds value to a balanced bench. Balanced meaning he doesn't have to be the primary option off the bench.
 

skisloper

Starter
How is JR too expensive? He's only slightly above what he got from us, considering his playoff performance. I still think he adds value to a balanced bench. Balanced meaning he doesn't have to be the primary option off the bench.

Two players names Reggie Evans and shannon brown I would rather have...

You like Woodson want to rely on a guy that you know has a selfish game...

Have u watched the Pacers, Philly, Spurs, Thunder ?

do you see how awesome it is to see team players making eachother better,,,,

If you think JR brings that then maybe u are watching a different JR then I am...

People saying his defense got better....How many stupid fouls did he create behind the 3 point arc ?

Melo ISO is more then enough we dont need JR as well........

sorry I am not a fan of JR .....Lets bring back Jamal Crawford too because he can spread the offense,,,,Oh Yeah their is defense as well...

stop thinking so one dimensional...
 

Paul1355

All Star
J.R at 2.5 is steal

He is a steal for 2.5 mil

We could still offer the bi-annual to Novak (1.98 mil)

And the Mid level to Lin (5 mil)

....if the ruling goes in favor of the league


If the ruling goes in favor of the union, then we can keep all these guys and have room for decent trades or free agents.
 

Cuckoo

Benchwarmer
Two players names Reggie Evans and shannon brown I would rather have...

You like Woodson want to rely on a guy that you know has a selfish game...

Have u watched the Pacers, Philly, Spurs, Thunder ?

do you see how awesome it is to see team players making eachother better,,,,

If you think JR brings that then maybe u are watching a different JR then I am...

People saying his defense got better....How many stupid fouls did he create behind the 3 point arc ?

Melo ISO is more then enough we dont need JR as well........

sorry I am not a fan of JR .....Lets bring back Jamal Crawford too because he can spread the offense,,,,Oh Yeah their is defense as well...

stop thinking so one dimensional...

Not sure how long Shump will miss out next season.
Courtney Lee is a great all around G, team player, underrated defender. His catch and shoot fits perfect to Knicks offense. A much better choice than JR.
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
Not sure how long Shump will miss out next season.
Courtney Lee is a great all around G, team player, underrated defender. His catch and shoot fits perfect to Knicks offense. A much better choice than JR.

I mocked him to us in a deal with Houston and Utah

Knicks- Paul Millsap, Courtney Lee and Patrick Patterson
Rockets- Amar'e Stoudemire, Al Jefferson and Toney Douglas- re-sign Dragic
Jazz- Kyle Lowry, Kevin Martin and Samuel Dalembert

Rockets

Jefferson-Stoudemire-Parsons-Budinger-Dragic

McHale wants 2 bigs to run through and the other 3 are great compliments to STAT and AJ

Jazz

Kanter-Favors-Carroll-Burks-Lowry

They move forward with Kanter and Favors and get some salary relief moving AJ and Millsap though they just made a good run to the playoffs their future is Kanter and Favors and their future is bright

Knicks

Lin-Lee-Anthony-Millsap-Chandler
Shumpert-Smith-Fields-Patterson-Harrellson-Jordan-Rookie-FA

We get a more balanced team and 3 2-way players in Lee, Millsap and Patterson(this guy is what I call a winner). Millsap can get 18 and 8 within the flow of our offense, Lee is a very good defender and shooter and will compliment Melo like Afflalo did.
 
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