We are WEAK at the SG position

I dont like the resigning of JR.Smith........
If JR.Smith is the best we have at the SG position .. we will lose a lot of close crunchtime games next season with JR.Smith at the SG.
JR.Smith first 10 games as a Knicks lead a 16-16 record Knicks team to a 18-24 record team.
That was not a well start for JR.Smith first 10 games as a Knicks (2-8).
The 8-15 record Knicks before JR.Smith sign, was one of the hottest team in the NBA on a 8-1 winning streak to make the Knicks a .500 team with a 16-16 record. adding JR.Smith 28 minutes of playintime turmed a 16-16 team into a 18-24 team in 10 games (2-8 losing spurt).
Watching JR.Smith 5 game postseason performance clearly said, "dont resign".

The Knicks will be vulnerable at the SG spot if they dont resign Landry Fields
to the 2012-13 Knicks roster.
New York will have until Saturday to match the Raptors’ offer.

Fields, 6-foot-7, 215 pounds, has averaged 9.3 points, 5.4 rebounds and 30 minutes in 148 games. He has appeared in every contest the past two seasons, making 143 starts .. a 82 game durable player.

2010-11 season
Fields was a 2010-11 T-Mobile All-Rookie First Team selection and twice named Eastern Conference Rookie of the Month (November and December 2010). He paced the Knicks in rebounding 22 times, and set a franchise rookie-record making 86 three-pointers. He had two 20-plus scoring games and 11 double-doubles. He scored a career-high 25 points versus Philadelphia on February 6, 2011 and recorded a career-best 17 rebounds on November 16, 2010 at Denver.

2011-12 season
Fields scored in double figures in 25 outings last season, with a high of 21 at Sacramento on December 31. He posted double-digit scoring efforts in nine of 10 games from January 18 – February 3, averaging 13.6 points. He also contributed seven games with at least three steals,
A native of Southern California, Fields was an All-Pac-10 First Team selection as a senior at Stanford in 2009-10, with averages of 22.0 points, 8.8 rebounds and 36.3 minutes in 32 games (all starts).

3rd season Landry Fields only have room for improvement with Kidd & Lin at the point, and Camby & Tyson at the center.

All Thoughts .. Haters too

We'll be alright.. still plenty of quality sg's out there. And it sounds like Shump is ahead of schedule and could beat the target of January according to Mike Woodson (He did say he may be jumping the gun tho). I personally would like us to go after Ronnie Brewer even though he may be a little over our price range.

Fields is not a shooting guard though

He cant shoot and he cant guard his position

JR Smith gives us a true 3rd option on offense something we lacked a lot last year

When Shumpert returns those issues cease and we move forward, I'd look for a stop gap but other than that we can role out with Lin/Kidd/Smith/Prigioni rotating at the 1 and 2

Well i wouldn't say we are weak because not every team is built with 5 starter quality NBA players. We definitely don't want JR starting because of his shaky defense and decision making but i wouldn't say our current situation would kill us.

If Jr plays in confined role and is told not to over dribble and to only shoot wide open shots, he can be a great starter...

But he won't do that and his erratic play can cost a team 4-5 games in a season and can make easy wins turn into 4th quarter battles.

+1 though we do need an upgrade over JR, his talent is immense but his IQ really is not good, we need someone that knows their role and won't try to make plays they can't.

We have Smith,Shump, and Kidd who will be playing the 2 and we're gonna pick up another quality 2 before the season so were fine

JR can be and will be a good starting SG, for one reason only:

How many touches do you think Smith will have with both Stat & Melo on the court?

Be honest, if Smith has less touches his option will be more selective this is just being on the court with the Big 2. Add Jason Kidd, and Prigioni they will orchestrate the offense and all three shooters will be set up so they don't have to create their opportunities.

We saw it last year for Novak & Smith, if we play as a team everyone will get their opportunities.

If JR is effective don't be surprised, if he continues to start while they work Shumpert back into the rotation as 6th Man coming off the bench. I for one believe Smith, & Melo will be a fierce one two punch that teams will game plan for. Stat is our wild card, he could be the dagger on both ends of the court. But I am not sold on him yet.

Kiya seriously Fields is a bumb with no shot and is vastly over rated. I am glad Toronto is taking him off our hands. He doesn't fit on the team if he can't even spread the floor.

You can find a bunch of d leaguers that have a better outside shot then him, it;s embarassing.

J.R is a thousand times better. We would rather him come off the bench but untill Shump is out it doesn't bother me seeing him start. We have 5 guys on the floor that can score.

J.R spreads the floor for Amare Melo adn Chandler because he can actually knock down and outside shot. Plus Lin and Smith played well together and Lin always found him on fast breaks.

Smith will be good and you have to remember he came into the NBA after playing in China so it was an adjustment.

He will be good and I bet KIdd will get minutes at the 2 spot, as well as Copeland and White.

When Shumpert comes back someone will have to take a seat and maybe that is why the KNicks went for a big man instead.

Paul1355 said:

Kiya seriously Fields is a bumb with no shot and is vastly over rated. I am glad Toronto is taking him off our hands. He doesn't fit on the team if he can't even spread the floor.

You can find a bunch of d leaguers that have a better outside shot then him, it;s embarassing.

J.R is a thousand times better. We would rather him come off the bench but untill Shump is out it doesn't bother me seeing him start. We have 5 guys on the floor that can score.

J.R spreads the floor for Amare Melo adn Chandler because he can actually knock down and outside shot. Plus Lin and Smith played well together and Lin always found him on fast breaks.

Smith will be good and you have to remember he came into the NBA after playing in China so it was an adjustment.

He will be good and I bet KIdd will get minutes at the 2 spot, as well as Copeland and White.

When Shumpert comes back someone will have to take a seat and maybe that is why the KNicks went for a big man instead.

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u can not be serious .. for five straight seasons JR.Smith & Melo were the main reason Denver Nuggets stayed a first round playoff team.
I dont see Durant & Harden, or Dirk & Terry, or Duncan & Ginobli as being a consecutive first round playoff team.

JR.Smith spreading the floor is a joke .. JR lives on the 3 point line, plus goes to the foul line once every 4 games.
Cut out all the funnies

Shump just had ACL surgery, Shump wont be Shump till the 2013-14 season....Stop listening to early medical report decisions before the surgery, teams always give fans early recovery reports....Lin's medical report had him playing in the playoffs.

Kiyaman said:

u can not be serious .. for five straight seasons JR.Smith & Melo were the main reason Denver Nuggets stayed a first round playoff team.
I dont see Durant & Harden, or Dirk & Terry, or Duncan & Ginobli as being a consecutive first round playoff team.

JR.Smith spreading the floor is a joke .. JR lives on the 3 point line, plus goes to the foul line once every 4 games.
Cut out all the funnies

Shump just had ACL surgery, Shump wont be Shump till the 2013-14 season....Stop listening to early medical report decisions before the surgery, teams always give fans early recovery reports....Lin's medical report had him playing in the playoffs.

Click to expand...

Solid point. Jr is like Steve Novak with hops, he just shoots and he has no ability to get to the rim, which if he did he would be like a young Jason Richardson. And i hate the optimism that Shump is coming back before January when even January is a 50/50 return time. Jr is a great bench scorer because he can jack it up without hurting the chemistry of our core but we need a guy like Afflalo who can start and play lock down D while also being able to knock down shots.

RunningJumper said:

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Stop pushing this, it's NOT going to happen. Another chucker, but one who doesn't play defense, no thanks. His attitude is the last thing we need in our locker room.

Kiyaman said:

u can not be serious .. for five straight seasons JR.Smith & Melo were the main reason Denver Nuggets stayed a first round playoff team.
I dont see Durant & Harden, or Dirk & Terry, or Duncan & Ginobli as being a consecutive first round playoff team.

JR.Smith spreading the floor is a joke .. JR lives on the 3 point line, plus goes to the foul line once every 4 games.
Cut out all the funnies

Shump just had ACL surgery, Shump wont be Shump till the 2013-14 season....Stop listening to early medical report decisions before the surgery, teams always give fans early recovery reports....Lin's medical report had him playing in the playoffs.

Click to expand...

Everytime Melo was bounced in the first round they lost to the team who either repped the West or won the championship. Melo is not the reason the Nuggets only made the WCF once, prime Kobe and Duncan's stacked teams were.

If the Knicks don't sign a solid rotation SG by next week I think the Knicks will match Landry's offer. He'll be overpaid but he's a proven rotation player, lol at the talk of a bad contract when the Knicks paid Jerome James and Eddie Curry millions to just sit on the bench. If Shump was healthy and JR more consistent then the Knicks probably wouldn't match, re-signing Landry makes sense at this point.

Kiyaman said:

I dont like the resigning of JR.Smith........
If JR.Smith is the best we have at the SG position .. we will lose a lot of close crunchtime games next season with JR.Smith at the SG.
JR.Smith first 10 games as a Knicks lead a 16-16 record Knicks team to a 18-24 record team.
That was not a well start for JR.Smith first 10 games as a Knicks (2-8).
The 8-15 record Knicks before JR.Smith sign, was one of the hottest team in the NBA on a 8-1 winning streak to make the Knicks a .500 team with a 16-16 record. adding JR.Smith 28 minutes of playintime turmed a 16-16 team into a 18-24 team in 10 games (2-8 losing spurt).
Watching JR.Smith 5 game postseason performance clearly said, "dont resign".

The Knicks will be vulnerable at the SG spot if they dont resign Landry Fields
to the 2012-13 Knicks roster.
New York will have until Saturday to match the Raptors? offer.

Fields, 6-foot-7, 215 pounds, has averaged 9.3 points, 5.4 rebounds and 30 minutes in 148 games. He has appeared in every contest the past two seasons, making 143 starts .. a 82 game durable player.

2010-11 season
Fields was a 2010-11 T-Mobile All-Rookie First Team selection and twice named Eastern Conference Rookie of the Month (November and December 2010). He paced the Knicks in rebounding 22 times, and set a franchise rookie-record making 86 three-pointers. He had two 20-plus scoring games and 11 double-doubles. He scored a career-high 25 points versus Philadelphia on February 6, 2011 and recorded a career-best 17 rebounds on November 16, 2010 at Denver.

2011-12 season
Fields scored in double figures in 25 outings last season, with a high of 21 at Sacramento on December 31. He posted double-digit scoring efforts in nine of 10 games from January 18 ? February 3, averaging 13.6 points. He also contributed seven games with at least three steals,
A native of Southern California, Fields was an All-Pac-10 First Team selection as a senior at Stanford in 2009-10, with averages of 22.0 points, 8.8 rebounds and 36.3 minutes in 32 games (all starts).

3rd season Landry Fields only have room for improvement with Kidd & Lin at the point, and Camby & Tyson at the center.

All Thoughts .. Haters too

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I'd have to say Fields anemic 1.4 points per during his first post-season indicated "don't re-sign"...

the deer in the headlights look didn't help.

But lets be real, he was just a rookie, so I won't put too much stock in that performance.

This seems more about comparing Swish to Folds, and specifically "their fit" with team Broadway Bigs (the Knicks).

In that case when I analyze what we need vs what they bring I see it this way:

This team will compete and combat the threats coming out of the East with Defense. Woodson is a defensive orientated coach. Our moves especially the ones that lead to our improved defense illustrates this and the model (that I agree with) is to surround STAT & MELO with the best defenders we can afford.

Now lets get back to Swish and Folds... Laundry CAN'T GUARD the two position with consistency. If we list the threat two guards we'll encounter i.e. Wade, Allen, etc...

Fields cannot be relied upon to guard any of them. So you say, can Swish guard them? Well he'll do a better job just by virtue of:

1. He's faster
2. isn't passive
3. He can actually match their points (which is the next best thing)
4. He's a vet
5. Best of all he's more financially feasable
6. And he's not even the long-term starter

WE MISSED OUR TRADE WINDOW WITH FIELDS. How we feel NOW about Shump, was how everyone felt about Fields LAST YEAR remember? During the trade he was deemed "do not touch".

IF A TEAM wanted Folds NOW how we thought they wanted him then... we could pull off a butt-rapage trade using

Landry "Folds" Gold!:thumbsup:

PS. Love the analytics but I disagree with the conclusion.

I'm pretty confident that we will see Novak taking the starting SG position at the beginning.

JR Smith can't play with Melo as the NBA only allows 1 ball to be used at a time.

We don't have anyone else that can start at SG until Shump returns.

Kiyaman said:

u can not be serious .. for five straight seasons JR.Smith & Melo were the main reason Denver Nuggets stayed a first round playoff team.
I dont see Durant & Harden, or Dirk & Terry, or Duncan & Ginobli as being a consecutive first round playoff team.

JR.Smith spreading the floor is a joke .. JR lives on the 3 point line, plus goes to the foul line once every 4 games.
Cut out all the funnies

Shump just had ACL surgery, Shump wont be Shump till the 2013-14 season....Stop listening to early medical report decisions before the surgery, teams always give fans early recovery reports....Lin's medical report had him playing in the playoffs.

Click to expand...

It is not like the Knicks have a lot options given their financial situation. Also given JR's ability for the amount of money he signed for seems like a pretty good investment. Yes he is a volume shooter and throws up crazy shots. I know he will lose us some games but he will also win us some games as well and surprisingly he played very well defensively. To blame JR Smith for everything that went bad when he got to the Knicks is a little extreme. Remember Stat and Melo were injured during that stretch and came back around the same time JR signed. That's a lot of disruption to add to an offense at once.

Good thread Kiya -- you're right on the money, my man. We're definitely weak at the 2, even with Smith back (and thank God for JR man, can you imagine if he signed on to play somewhere else? Forget about it -- we'd have no one at 2G right now!). I know they say that it's the easiest spot in the NBA to fix, but I'm still concerned. After this Prigioni signing for about 470-480K, I don't know how much money we have left to fix it. We've got JR Smith and that's basically it -- I don't wanna hear how Kidd will play some 2 and everything's OK -- come on now -- Kidd's an older cat now, he's not a SG and he's never been a great outside shooter anyway (although to be fair, I feel like he's gotten better from long-range as he's gotten older. Still not an NBA SG -- he's a PG!!). And who knows what we're gonna get outta this James White. The dude's a complete enigma with next to no NBA experience.

Kidd was brought here to be the backup point and to mentor Lin. That's it. Not to be the starting 2G. If I had to bet, as of right now that role's gonna go to Smith (even though I feel Smith serves us much better off the bench). Probably why he chose to come back to NY for only $2.8M -- I betcha they promised him the starting SG spot. That and he may not have gotten the additional offers he said he did (I mean, we would've heard about another offer, no?). In my mind, it's an easy fix, provided we still have a little cash to work with. And I'd like to see them go with youth and athleticism here -- we've added enough older veteran talent. No more 35-and-overs, please.. Gotta have a good mix of youth/athleticism/high ceiling-types to go along with that veteran savvy and know-how...I think these are our top SG options right now:

Chris Douglas-Roberts - 6'7", prior NBA experience, he can score the ball on anyone. He might come for the vet minimum. Not gonna know unless we reach out to him.

Scotty Hopson - 6'7", similar offensive game to JR Smith. He can score and do it in a variety of ways. Young and a damn fine athlete to boot. I don't care what any of the naysayers have every said about him -- this guy's NBA material.

Jamelle Horne - 6'7", athletic, can drive and finish, good offensive rebounder for a wing, solid 3-pt shooter and he can defend.

Sylven Landesberg - 6'6", nice slashing game, he can get to the line (makes his FTs) and he's developed into a decent outside shooter.

James Anderson - I believe he's still a FA. I'd scoop him up provided he's healthy (I think he hurt himself at one point and the Spurs sent him down to the D-League. Was recalled, then sent down again. If he's healthy, he's an NBA SG, fits the mold of exactly what we should be looking for (young, 6'6" or better, athletic and he can shoot).

Alonzo Gee - 6'6", long, athletic, developed into a decent 3-pt shooter. NBA experience with the Cavs.

Austin Freeman - a little smaller (6'4"-ish), and a little heavier (I read he may be up near 230-235 lbs) than these other guys but I think he's a good talent. Liked him a lot at Georgetown. He'd be a good system guy. Pretty smooth offensive player..I've heard he's too small, not a great athlete, too heavy, etc. -- I think that's all overblown. He can play.

Matt Janning - he doubled up this SL -- playing for Indy in Orlando and then for Memphis. I like this guy a lot as a PG/SG combo. At 6'4", he's got nice ability to play both positions. Reminds me of a poor man's Goran Dragic. He can see the floor, pass and shoot it. I think this guy would be great here.

--------------------------
The next tier:

Manny Harris - 6'5", strong, athletic, a little erratic offensively but talented. On Houston's SL team.

Dionte Christmas - on Boston's Orlando SL team. Hopefully we're monitoring his progress. 6'5" and he can shoot.

Derrick Byars - 6'7" 220 lb G-F playing for SA's SL team (interesting that their roster also includes James Anderson -- did they officially re-sign him? I didn't think so). 5 yr college player had a very good final yr at Vandy. Cup of coffee in the NBA with a couple of teams (I remember him with the Bulls). Was a reliable 3-pt shooter in college. Solid in the DL as well. Solid all-around player. The more I think about this guy, the more sense he makes for us.

Hollis Thompson - At 6'8" with his length, upside and deft shooting touch from downtown, I think we should take a shot here. Surprising that nobody scooped him up yet for summer ball. All the rosters aren't in yet though.

Sonny Weems - if it's Weems then so be it. We could do worse. He's big, strong and athletic. Also, it'd be nice to stick it to Toronto a little bit -- they overthought this thinking they ****ed us outta Nash when they severly overpaid for Fields; maybe we counter by going out and grabbing their former guy Weems on the cheap as a final piece (MUCH, MUCH cheaper than what they paid for Fields) and start rolling.

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I would've LOVED to have added OJ Mayo or even Courtney Lee. Too bad that wasn't in the cards...If we have anything left at all to trade (which I don't think we do), one guy we might be able to get cheap via trade is Wayne Ellington from Minnesota (esp. after they just signed Brandon Roy -- Ellington never seemed to fit there---over here, he'd be my starting 2 with Smith coming off the bench resuming his 6th man role). Ellington hasn't proved much in Minny (hasn't really been given that great an opportunity too to be fair) but he was a good player at NC that can flat out shoot it). Reggie Williams from Charlotte might be another guy we can snag, maybe for a future 2 and cash. I wish we would've gotten Williams last year when we had the opportunity.

I agree, to a certain extent. I was hopin we would had Foye or Mayo. The after making our moves, I thought Dahntay Jones would be nice. I still think something should be done... Maybe bringing in a D-Stevenson on a vet min deal. Something like that. Small. Roll dice and hope for best.

BUT, if things work out well... come playoff time... We'll have Shumpert starting. JR Smith backing him up, serving as our 6th man. Plus, we can use Kidd-Lin together. We'll survive.

ALSO, there's the trade deadline. I'm sure if SG is a problem still... & if Shumpert isn;t healing the way we hoped for, the Knicks will make a trade for something serviceable.

At this point there us NO reason not to sign Fields....
The only thing it costs the knicks is luxury tax......we are on a 3 year plan and his contract would just be 3 years so whats the difference...

Shump not back until Mid-January,,,,,
JR is not a starting SG>>>for all you fans do u not see how not a single team offered him a contract....

Fields played awesome with LIN so why not......

Lin
Fields
Melo
Stat
Chandler

Spanish dude
Kidd
JR
white
camby
Novak....

alot to play with...

Fields energy at 6'8 is needed.....

I disagree, make Novak the starter if Smith is the problem and just call it a day. To be honest I would want Novak on the floor with melo and stat all the time anyway, screw that off the bench crap. The man can shoot and the people who can give him the open looks are all on the first team.

skisloper said:

At this point there us NO reason not to sign Fields....
The only thing it costs the knicks is luxury tax......we are on a 3 year plan and his contract would just be 3 years so whats the difference...

Shump not back until Mid-January,,,,,
JR is not a starting SG>>>for all you fans do u not see how not a single team offered him a contract....

Fields played awesome with LIN so why not......

Lin
Fields
Melo
Stat
Chandler

Spanish dude
Kidd
JR
white
camby
Novak....

alot to play with...

Fields energy at 6'8 is needed.....

Click to expand...

You know, you make a good argument here bro -- yeah, why not resign Fields? 3-yr window, all it is is luxury tax for money-bags Dolan and you're right, he did have good chemistry with his buddy Lin. Plus, we could use him -- we only have 1 legit 2G on this roster right now, not counting Shump who's hurt (even though Fields isn't your prototypical 2). Couldn't hurt -- if we're gonna go for it, might as well go ALL IN. I see where you're coming from. And I still like Landry a lot, limitations and all.

Thing is, $20M is way too much money for him. He regressed badly last yr (esp. with his outside shooting, hard to justify $20M on a SG who can't shoot) and just didn't seem to fit here anymore post Melo trade..Forget all about making any kind of moderate to big moves during the next several yrs if we matched that offer. That's it -- this'll be the team pretty much, sink or swim. Although, we would still have the MLE every year to use on a player or two. But now your just talking about compounding the luxury tax -- I think they'd be well over once they sign Fields. Asking them to continue adding to their tax bill after Fields is asking a lot. Asking them to resign Fields and assume a big tax hit is probably asking too much in itself...Not sure what it is exactly but supposedly the luxury tax penalty is a lot stiffer in this new CBA than it was before.