Are we undervaluing our roster this season, simply because its the New York Knicks?

NYCLakerfan

Rotation player
The Knicks and Celtics have the all around deepest teams to me the question is can each teams stars get it done. Chemistry and consistency with the Knicks star players and age for the Celtics.
 

NYNYK

Benchwarmer
The key will be, can we work together, injuries,...and Lebron. Melo was killing it at the Olympics this year, but Lebron, though I hate him bc he snubbed us, showed us why he is the greatest player in the NBA today. Assists from no where, blocks, rebounds, hard nose defense, and of course, monster jams. His only weakness is his deep threat which is average to above average but still consistent if you don't guard him. And that's not fandom or anything. That is the cold hard truth.

If we play our offense with the Pick and Roll in Felton and Amar'e and Melo getting it done when he needs to and our defense comes through, (which now has both capable perimeter and interior defenders) we should fly by with everyone else with ease. The other eastern conference teams not named the Miami Heat haven't done enough to warrant any threat to us in my opinion. Nets lost out on Howard and they don't have enough firepower to stop us. Orlando is just going to be terrible now without Howard. Bulls don't know where they'll be without Rose or if he'll be the same All Star player he once was. Sixers have Bynum now but Bynum grew up with the triangle offense and who knows how well he'll adjust to Doug Collins. Celtics lost Allen so they're a question mark now too. ATL and Pacers should have never been a threat to us in the first place. So there really is no one except the Heat who can stop us based on pure talent alone.

BUT, like everyone else said here, we are our own worst enemy. Injuries and team chemistry will determine our fates next season.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Great Thread Topic .. the undervalue of Knicks teams

The comunication level of Knicks players as a same-page team has drop tremendously low each season after the 1998 offseason trade of Oakley/Starks.
Our poor coaching-staff had alot to do with the poor relationship of Knicks players being on the same-page for over a decade.

Oakley were our top-strong frontcourt leadership player on the court, and in the lockerroom.
This 2012-13 season our best top frontcourt leadership player goes to "Kurt Thomas" experience in keeping his team on the same-page on the court, on the bench, and in the lockerroom.

John Starks were our top-strong backcourt leadership player on the court, and in the lockerroom.
This 2012-13 season our best top backcourt leadership player goes to "Jason Kidd" veteran experience in keeping his team on the same-page on the court, on the bench, and in the Lockerroom.

We have put together a serious optimistic Knicks roster together of Star-Players in the 2012 offseason to win the Atlantic Division Championship, however our best team-complimentary-players on the roster lies in "Player-Coach Jason Kidd and Kurt Thomas" being accepted by coaching-staff & players as the Knicks # 1 leadership players.

The Knicks past decade of seasons consisted of a divided-lockerroom of players that didnt accept certain teammates performance, which lead to all the players trying to be the team scoring "savior" with individual-plays.
All the high five shoulder jumping looked good for team morality after a good Knicks play, but the team high-shoulder bumps never came close to weigh above all the teams poor-performances on offense/defense.

All the experience veteran players added to the Knicks roster in the offseason are a reward to headcoach Mike Woodson difficult job at getting two $100M contract EGO-players to co-exist as a teammates. The two players are two damn SELFISH to be anyteams leadership-player....which give reason to undervalue a decent Knicks roster.

u dont have to be a genious or a rocket-scientist to know Carmelo Anthony did not accept (Big-Shot) Chuancey Billups strong leadership role taking control over the Denver Nuggets players, nor did Carmelo accept the young D.Leaguer Lin-Sanity super-star role as the Knicks floor leader being accepted by all Knicks teammates, plus being accepted by NBA fans worldwide for providing a team-leadership on the Knicks that Melo & Amare could not provide.
 

JaYnYcE

Benchwarmer
Great Thread Topic .. the undervalue of Knicks teams

The comunication level of Knicks players as a same-page team has drop tremendously low each season after the 1998 offseason trade of Oakley/Starks.
Our poor coaching-staff had alot to do with the poor relationship of Knicks players being on the same-page for over a decade.

Oakley were our top-strong frontcourt leadership player on the court, and in the lockerroom.
This 2012-13 season our best top frontcourt leadership player goes to "Kurt Thomas" experience in keeping his team on the same-page on the court, on the bench, and in the lockerroom.

John Starks were our top-strong backcourt leadership player on the court, and in the lockerroom.
This 2012-13 season our best top backcourt leadership player goes to "Jason Kidd" veteran experience in keeping his team on the same-page on the court, on the bench, and in the Lockerroom.

We have put together a serious optimistic Knicks roster together of Star-Players in the 2012 offseason to win the Atlantic Division Championship, however our best team-complimentary-players on the roster lies in "Player-Coach Jason Kidd and Kurt Thomas" being accepted by coaching-staff & players as the Knicks # 1 leadership players.

The Knicks past decade of seasons consisted of a divided-lockerroom of players that didnt accept certain teammates performance, which lead to all the players trying to be the team scoring "savior" with individual-plays.
All the high five shoulder jumping looked good for team morality after a good Knicks play, but the team high-shoulder bumps never came close to weigh above all the teams poor-performances on offense/defense.

All the experience veteran players added to the Knicks roster in the offseason are a reward to headcoach Mike Woodson difficult job at getting two $100M contract EGO-players to co-exist as a teammates. The two players are two damn SELFISH to be anyteams leadership-player....which give reason to undervalue a decent Knicks roster.

u dont have to be a genious or a rocket-scientist to know Carmelo Anthony did not accept (Big-Shot) Chuancey Billups strong leadership role taking control over the Denver Nuggets players, nor did Carmelo accept the young D.Leaguer Lin-Sanity super-star role as the Knicks floor leader being accepted by all Knicks teammates, plus being accepted by NBA fans worldwide for providing a team-leadership on the Knicks that Melo & Amare could not provide.

Again, is there an ignore feature that we can get?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Again, is there an ignore feature that we can get?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:boohoo:

u need to go back to the Denver Nugget forum .. we are Knicks Fans in this forum not single-player fans.
Your silly comments remind me of all the A.Rod fans who became Yankee Fans.
Step TFO :barf:
 

petescud

Starter
Some of our success this year looms on whats left in the tank with Camby,Kidd and Thomas. I think STAT and Melo have a similar year as last. Hope they don't rush back Shump. I think we do pretty good this year
 

KingCharles34

All Star
The Knicks and Celtics have the all around deepest teams to me the question is can each teams stars get it done. Chemistry and consistency with the Knicks star players and age for the Celtics.

I agree, I have 3 questions with the Celtics

1) Age - Pierce and KG, PP looked old in the playoffs. Melo needs to finally retire that old man. KG played great but finally got tired in the last 2 games vs Miami. Will he be able to match what he did last year?

2) Inside Presence - We all know KG is a good defender but whos got his back? They got Bass, Fab Melo, Sullinger, Jason Collins, and Chris Wilcox. Tyson Chandler, Camby, and Kurt Thomas >>>

3) Rondo - He looked like he might have finally taken his game to another level in the playoffs last year. He showed more confidence then ever before, but I cant say hes completely convinced me that hes no longer fragile mentally. We do have Shump and Brewer to guard him, Chandler and Camby to protect the paint. Our PG's can defend their 2 guards which makes it easy to put Shumpert or Brewer on Rondo


We probably have just as many question marks with chemistry, Stats health, and then you got the Knicks fans that have their doubts about Carmelo. I think with Kidd and Felton, things will be fine on offense now. Carmelo and Stat just need to give us B level defense. We know what to expect from the rest of the roster, so if Stat and Melo can do that we should be a very well balanced team.
 

Knicks32

Benchwarmer
It just sucks we don't really have an option of getting past the second round.

It would be a real miracle to win the NBA finals this year.

Is there any chance that we can ever beat the Lakers, OKC, or the Heat? It will look like were Argentina playing against Team USA.
 
It's a decent team, but nowhere near Miami.

I rate the Lakers and Thunder higher as well, maybe even the Clippers depending on their health.

Winning the Atlantic is what needs to be expected from this team, but it won't be easy. It's by far the best division in the East this year, Brooklyn look good - like it or not - Boston will still challenge for the division crown (despite no chances of making a deep Playoff run) and Philly look decent too with Bynum, Holiday etc.

So step 1 is to win the Atlantic (tough enough)

Step 2 is to survive the first round (should be relatively easy with HC advantage )

Step 3 is to fight our way to the EC-Finals and give Miami a run for their money (which means winning at least one more game than last season)

Step 4 is to wait until the Heat-core gets old...like in the Bulls days back in the 90's. There is just no way to get past these Heat.
 

NYk_Reloaded718

★KNICKS-TAPE★
NBA.COM summer Report Card

FRONTCOURT: B
The Knicks supplemented their talented and expensive frontline with the addition of Marcus Camby. He's 38 years old, but also an upgrade over last year's reserves. Kurt Thomas is old too


BACKCOURT: C
Jeremy Lin's departure was a shocker, and while Raymond Felton played well in his first stint with the Knicks, Carmelo Anthony's presence makes things a lot different for a point guard.


DEFENSE: A
Camby will keep the interior defense from falling off so much when Tyson Chandler goes to the bench, and the addition of Ronnie Brewer will help on the perimeter with Iman Shumpert out.


BENCH: C
In addition to Camby, the Knicks added Jason Kidd, while bringing back J.R. Smith and Steve Novak. A younger big man would have been nice, but they'll be pretty deep once Shumpert is healthy.


COACHING: B
Mike Woodson righted the ship after the departure of Mike D'Antoni last season, and deserved the full-time gig. But he's still got to figure out how to get his two stars to play together.


Overall Grade C

Much was made about the offer sheet that Jeremy Lin signed with the Houston Rockets and, even more, the Knicks' decision not to match it. But if you put the marketing aspect aside, it's still unclear if Lin is a real difference maker. His run of success lasted just a fraction of a full season, and there were lows that came with the highs.

The Knicks' revised supporting cast should be fine. It's a veteran group that can play the necessary roles on both ends of the floor. But really, the team's success will be determined by its stars. And it won't be winning a playoff series unless something changes with the on-court relationship between Carmelo Anthony and Amar'e Stoudemire.

Anthony and Stoudemire are two offense-only stars, yet the Knicks were a below-average offensive team last season, and even worse when the pair was on the floor together. The pressure is now on Mike Woodson to make things work, but the changes must start with Anthony, because he's the one with the ball in his hands.

http://www.nba.com/reportcard/summer/2012/knicks/
 

MSGhobo247

Rotation player
Overall we should of received a B.

Our backcourt and bench is better then what they say it is but I guess no one will be convinced until the season starts.
 

KingCharles34

All Star
Horrible job done by nba.com, all they said about Kurt Thomas was that hes old. SMFH the dude can still ball, I agree with what MSGhobo said too. To give us a C is a little disrespectful, our backcourt will be more like a C+ or B-, Felton and Kidd both have a handful of players to dish too that can finish above the rim. If Stat stays healthy he indirectly makes those two better, their styles mesh well. Chandler will work well with Ray and Kidd too. Stat really needs to come through, hes the biggest factor for this team. SMH at them blaming Stats softness on Melo
 

Den318

Benchwarmer
Great Thread Topic .. the undervalue of Knicks teams

The comunication level of Knicks players as a same-page team has drop tremendously low each season after the 1998 offseason trade of Oakley/Starks.
Our poor coaching-staff had alot to do with the poor relationship of Knicks players being on the same-page for over a decade.

Oakley were our top-strong frontcourt leadership player on the court, and in the lockerroom.
This 2012-13 season our best top frontcourt leadership player goes to "Kurt Thomas" experience in keeping his team on the same-page on the court, on the bench, and in the lockerroom.

John Starks were our top-strong backcourt leadership player on the court, and in the lockerroom.
This 2012-13 season our best top backcourt leadership player goes to "Jason Kidd" veteran experience in keeping his team on the same-page on the court, on the bench, and in the Lockerroom.

We have put together a serious optimistic Knicks roster together of Star-Players in the 2012 offseason to win the Atlantic Division Championship, however our best team-complimentary-players on the roster lies in "Player-Coach Jason Kidd and Kurt Thomas" being accepted by coaching-staff & players as the Knicks # 1 leadership players.

The Knicks past decade of seasons consisted of a divided-lockerroom of players that didnt accept certain teammates performance, which lead to all the players trying to be the team scoring "savior" with individual-plays.
All the high five shoulder jumping looked good for team morality after a good Knicks play, but the team high-shoulder bumps never came close to weigh above all the teams poor-performances on offense/defense.

All the experience veteran players added to the Knicks roster in the offseason are a reward to headcoach Mike Woodson difficult job at getting two $100M contract EGO-players to co-exist as a teammates. The two players are two damn SELFISH to be anyteams leadership-player....which give reason to undervalue a decent Knicks roster.

u dont have to be a genious or a rocket-scientist to know Carmelo Anthony did not accept (Big-Shot) Chuancey Billups strong leadership role taking control over the Denver Nuggets players, nor did Carmelo accept the young D.Leaguer Lin-Sanity super-star role as the Knicks floor leader being accepted by all Knicks teammates, plus being accepted by NBA fans worldwide for providing a team-leadership on the Knicks that Melo & Amare could not provide.


+1,000,000

First losing streak of the season and the big EGO selfish loser will quit on the coach and team.
 

Wargames

Starter
I am going to say this when the knicks traded for Melo I was pissed cause I knew they were throwing that season and the one after it away because of all the trash they took. No team recovers that quickly and obviously the Nuggets got every resource available in that trade.

2 seasons later and the knicks finally have some depth at all the positions necessary to actually play well and they will be a defense first team. I like there odds and I think the analyst are downgrading them because they have under performed these last 2 seasons. Now however, all the major factors that usually led to those bad results have been corrected.

Hell it hurts me a little to say this but it looks like if they had overpaid Lin, it would of led to some sour feelings during the season. So it was smart to let him go cause the Knicks need no drama this year if they are going to outperform the reputation of being a low playoff seed team.
 

knicksman20

Benchwarmer
Great post Zeke!

Very objective, though I think you're being a little hard on this roster.

Melo and Amare had a season to struggle and get to know one another. I think there's a good chance those hard times will pay dividends re chemistry.

Felton while a question mark has anwered some of hi scritics by getting himself in what looks to be at worst decent shape. He should round (no pun intended) in to form by season's start. He is also partly responsible for one of Amare's best years. It'll be good for Amare to have him back.

And while I think Kidd and Camby are old/limited in what they can do, they both have enough left in the tank to really help us.

Idk.. we've got size, good guard play, two prolific scorers and (barring Amare and Novak) solid defenders at multiple positions.

My biggest question mark, and anyone can feel free to challenge me on this, is Woodson.

He too me is just not a v good coach.

MDA while flawed fundamentally was plain and simple a flat out better coach IMO.

Woodson's unimaginative offense and questionable decision making leave me somewhat weary of his performance going into this season.

He has a lot to prove. He's really done nothing in the league since he's been coaching.

You had me till you got to the bolded portion. Coach Woody is superior in every facet of coaching to our last "coach". He's more balanced, seems like he's handling ego's better, actually calls plays & uses timeouts wisely, preaches defense, & the most important he hold players accountable. D'Antoni was an epic FAIL in all the things listed. Woody's record after Pringles was ousted speaks for itself. Woody is definitely a fit for this team, & the players respond to him.
 

CoolClyde

Moderator
You had me till you got to the bolded portion. Coach Woody is superior in every facet of coaching to our last "coach". He's more balanced, seems like he's handling ego's better, actually calls plays & uses timeouts wisely, preaches defense, & the most important he hold players accountable. D'Antoni was an epic FAIL in all the things listed. Woody's record after Pringles was ousted speaks for itself. Woody is definitely a fit for this team, & the players respond to him.
:gony:
rep
 

p0nder

Starter
^Agreed + rep

Woodson is a better coach and is very well suited to the roster. Not sure if there is another coach out there that is a better fit? He seems to have the respect of the team (at the very least TC, STAT and Melo) at this point.

I personally do not undervalue this roster but I know that the media is. Particularly glaring mistakes (like letting Lin walk) outshine the quiet awesomeness that grunwald has pulled off (Kidd, Camby, KT, Brewer, Novak, Felton).

I expect that we will finish #2 or #3 seed with about 50 wins with this roster, which is the best roster the knicks have had in my lifetime.
 

21 Shump Street

Benchwarmer
You had me till you got to the bolded portion. Coach Woody is superior in every facet of coaching to our last "coach". He's more balanced, seems like he's handling ego's better, actually calls plays & uses timeouts wisely, preaches defense, & the most important he hold players accountable. D'Antoni was an epic FAIL in all the things listed. Woody's record after Pringles was ousted speaks for itself. Woody is definitely a fit for this team, & the players respond to him.

This, alot of the criticism towards Woodson was based on his time with the Hawks and then our recent playoff run.

It's totally unfair to use the fact that over his 5 year tenure the Hawks on average only won about 35 games per year. The first 2-3 years of Woody there were a slow rebuilding phase where he had to develop J Smith and other younger players. People forget that his Atlanta team took the 08 CELTICS to 7 games the the ECSF, only mentioning their massive lopsided sweep at the hands of the Magic.

I shouldn't need to explain this for proper Knicks fans who actually watched us VS the heat but people constantly rip on him for not getting Novak enough plays. A key part of getting Novak open relies on penetration from our guards, when your relying on Bibby to penetrate through Wade/Chalmers you know that your decimated with injuries.

One thing that impresses me so much about Woodson is how great he is at drawing up defensive plays on the last play of the game. Remember Rose throwing up and airball for the last shot in our OT win against the Bulls. Or our sole win against Miami when Wade jacked a shot from the sideline. The media says that Rose & Wade just had to take a bad shot, but WHAT made them take that bad shot!? Woodson draws up great plays and has the personnel and the time this year to instill his system. Can't wait! :beer:


On a side note, has everyone heard ESPN jizzing about a possible lineup of:
Wade/Allen/Battier/Lebron/Bosh on offense, im more keen to see:
Shumpert/Brewer/Melo/Camby/Chandler guarding them!
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
I hear you.

You had me till you got to the bolded portion. Coach Woody is superior in every facet of coaching to our last "coach". He's more balanced, seems like he's handling ego's better, actually calls plays & uses timeouts wisely, preaches defense, & the most important he hold players accountable. D'Antoni was an epic FAIL in all the things listed. Woody's record after Pringles was ousted speaks for itself. Woody is definitely a fit for this team, & the players respond to him.

Maybe you're right. We'll see..

Going to try to keep my mind open. Though if you're objective, you will agree that he really has done nothing in his career to prove he's much better than an average coach.

Look at his coaching career:



Team Year G W L W–L% Finish PG PW PL PW–L% Result
ATL 2004–05 82 13 69 .159 5th in Southeast — — — — Missed Playoffs
ATL 2005–06 82 26 56 .317 5th in Southeast — — — — Missed Playoffs
ATL 2006–07 82 30 52 .366 5th in Southeast — — — — Missed Playoffs
ATL 2007–08 82 37 45 .451 3rd in Southeast 7 3 4 .429 Lost in First Round
ATL 2008–09 82 47 35 .580 2nd in Southeast 11 4 7 .364 Lost in Conf. Semifinals
ATL 2009–10 82 53 29 .646 2nd in Southeast 11 4 7 .364 Lost in Conf. Semifinals
NYK 2011–12 24 18 6 .750 2nd in Atlantic 5 1 4 .200 Lost in First Round
Career 516 224 292 .434 34 12 22 .353

He really hasn't done anything.. yet.
 
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