Marquez vs Pacquiao IV

[KingCharles34]

[metrocard]

I wish I can rep MSGKnickz33 again, but the rep system won't let me =[

[BananaSauce]

lol 2-1 your just a baby. 18+yrs of combat.

also there was no challenge coming from me but, i'd like take your challenge someday. i love to fight. i'll put that butt to sleep and take a arm or two or a leg.



heh slick? but, pretty much sums up pac's style, a brawler who punches in bunches.


kenny once said AI got no handles, he's just quick. lol wuh? Skill-less handle crossover artist?



stop bouncing nonito!

im done btw. funny thing is, i showed this to my buddies freedom fighters. they all respond, this guy is hating.

[BananaSauce]

best one

[metrocard]

lol 2-1 your just a baby. 18+yrs of combat.

also there was no challenge coming from me but, i'd like take your challenge someday. i love to fight. i'll put that butt to sleep and take a arm or two or a leg.



heh slick? but, pretty much sums up pac's style, a brawler who punches in bunches.


kenny once said AI got no handles, he's just quick. lol wuh? Skill-less handle crossover artist?



stop bouncing nonito!

im done btw. funny thing is, i showed this to my buddies freedom fighters. they all respond, this guy is hating.

You're a clown.

18 years of combat? Stop lying.

Let I said, you can come to my gym and come get some. I sparr daily and wouldn't have a problem giving you a concussion and leaving out laid out like Pacquiao.

You sound gay. "I put that butt o sleep"... you're some lame MMA enthusiast who doesn't even sparr three times a week, a wanna be fighter?

You're turned on by blood and tattoos, pyrotechnics, bright lights, shiny and spinning things. Stick to MMA. Boxing is a man's sport. And It's just that, a sport. MMA is glorified **** fighting. Boxing has class, finesse and is a true science, you have to be intelligent to truly appreciate it.

Didn't Brock Lesner win the world title after about 2 years in the sport? Nothing against MMA but the chances of that happening in boxing are ZERO.
One thing you will never see in boxing, is a fighter with his nose firmly planted between the other fighter's ballsack for long periods of time.

First off I don’t want to watch dudes in tights **** each other for 3/4 of every round. No I'm not trying to diss your sport but alot of us TRUE boxing fans do feel a little bitter toward MMA because it arrived out of nowhere and lets admit it, its more popular then boxing, but honestly that’s okay. I would much rather have my sport surrounded by TRUE fans then bleach blonds and buff dudes in tight tap out shirts. I feel as though MMA is a fad. It's kind of like a human **** fight in a big cage. Let me address glove size, the "bigger" not big, gloves are for the art of catching and blocking shots it adds to the art of the sport. MMA is also all about the intensity and added "masculinity" for instance instead of the reff saying "touch em up" they say "Lets get it on" is there really a need for that? I watched the wheigh ins for the mma fights this weekend on fox and they were blasting heavy metal with Joe Rogan screaming there weight, again is there a need for that? Boxing is more classy and does not need the added tuff guy appeal, because anyone who has ever put there dues in at there local boxing gym knows they dont need Joe Rogan explaining what they got in there blood. I studied a few different martial arts and clinching IS NOT FIGHTING but rather a way to prevent fighting! 70% of MMA is clinching and long boring submissions! The fun and exciting parts of MMA are the boxing parts! Boxing is a martial art/combat sport that is relatively simple and straight forward. It's got a great history and it's just beautiful. The Science Of Fist fighting. Boxing doesn’t need all the merchandise, it has the soul, history and an unspoken respect!

But this is how I fell about both sports:
I love Boxing for what the sport has done for so many young men, who without it would be, for lack of a better word " piece of ****" and most of the time dead. Boxing has saved so many lives including my own. Boxing has taught me how to succeed in life, it has given me confidence, respect, a since of right and wrong, the ability to go where others won’t, physically and mentally. Boxing has saved millions of lives and I owe my life to this sport.

but MMA is clearly better than boxing and also better than gay porn

[KBlack25]

You're a clown.

18 years of combat? Stop lying.

Let I said, you can come to my gym and come get some. I sparr daily and wouldn't have a problem giving you a concussion and leaving out laid out like Pacquiao.

You sound gay. "I put that butt o sleep"... you're some lame MMA enthusiast who doesn't even sparr three times a week, a wanna be fighter?

You're turned on by blood and tattoos, pyrotechnics, bright lights, shiny and spinning things. Stick to MMA. Boxing is a man's sport. And It's just that, a sport. MMA is glorified **** fighting. Boxing has class, finesse and is a true science, you have to be intelligent to truly appreciate it.

Didn't Brock Lesner win the world title after about 2 years in the sport? Nothing against MMA but the chances of that happening in boxing are ZERO.
One thing you will never see in boxing, is a fighter with his nose firmly planted between the other fighter's ballsack for long periods of time.

First off I don’t want to watch dudes in tights **** each other for 3/4 of every round. No I'm not trying to diss your sport but alot of us TRUE boxing fans do feel a little bitter toward MMA because it arrived out of nowhere and lets admit it, its more popular then boxing, but honestly that’s okay. I would much rather have my sport surrounded by TRUE fans then bleach blonds and buff dudes in tight tap out shirts. I feel as though MMA is a fad. It's kind of like a human **** fight in a big cage. Let me address glove size, the "bigger" not big, gloves are for the art of catching and blocking shots it adds to the art of the sport. MMA is also all about the intensity and added "masculinity" for instance instead of the reff saying "touch em up" they say "Lets get it on" is there really a need for that? I watched the wheigh ins for the mma fights this weekend on fox and they were blasting heavy metal with Joe Rogan screaming there weight, again is there a need for that? Boxing is more classy and does not need the added tuff guy appeal, because anyone who has ever put there dues in at there local boxing gym knows they dont need Joe Rogan explaining what they got in there blood. I studied a few different martial arts and clinching IS NOT FIGHTING but rather a way to prevent fighting! 70% of MMA is clinching and long boring submissions! The fun and exciting parts of MMA are the boxing parts! Boxing is a martial art/combat sport that is relatively simple and straight forward. It's got a great history and it's just beautiful. The Science Of Fist fighting. Boxing doesn’t need all the merchandise, it has the soul, history and an unspoken respect!

But this is how I fell about both sports:
I love Boxing for what the sport has done for so many young men, who without it would be, for lack of a better word " piece of ****" and most of the time dead. Boxing has saved so many lives including my own. Boxing has taught me how to succeed in life, it has given me confidence, respect, a since of right and wrong, the ability to go where others won’t, physically and mentally. Boxing has saved millions of lives and I owe my life to this sport.

but MMA is clearly better than boxing and also better than gay porn

Metro -

I respect your opinion but I have to step in and defend MMA.

Boxing will always have a space in American consciousness. Yes it's considered the sweet science and all that, but I think you vastly underrate MMA in terms of what it takes. Lesnar won the heavyweight title in two years training MMA, but he had a lifetime of amateur wrestling experience, which is widely considered the best base for MMA.

Fact is, in regards to Lesnar, there had never been a guy that big who was that fast and that dominant on the ground. When his fights were kept standing (as they were against Velasquez and Overeem) Lesnar crumbled, he did not have the stand up to withstand the beating and did as well as I could standing against those two guys.

I know that MMA fans get a bad rap. Roided out dudes in TapouT Shirts who boo or mock the ground game are clearly the most visible MMA fans. They are a stereotype, but I think you would be surprised at how thoughtful and intelligent a lot of MMA fans are. There are a lot of us who appreciate the science of the ground game, getting to a dominant position to synch in a choke or an arm lock, or to posture up to land strikes. There's actually a lot going on - sometimes I know it doesn't look that way but there are more than a few fights that show how exciting a submission/grappling match can be (see: Julie Kedzie v. Miesha Tate, 15 minutes back and forth grappling). Or look at the newest sensation Ronda Rousey and just how dominant she has been in her fights using only submissions.

Yes I know Joe Rogan screaming in a mic and the blasting of heavy metal at the weigh-ins is super lame. As an MMA fan, I'm pretty embarrassed by that kind of stuff. But I think that roundly dismissing it as "homosexual skinhead cage fighting" (as Bob Arum did), or thinking it's lame because of the presentation ignores a lot of awesomely talented athletes. I agree the presentation is lame, and sometimes an MMA fight can be boring, but I think if you took the time to learn more about it you might not be a huge fan but you'd at least be able to appreciate it.

[LeFlume]

DAMN!!!



But worst of all. He got punked by Justin Bieber. Now people are screaming for a lifetime ban for JB from entering PI..lol

A call has been made for Canadian singer Justin Bieber to be declared "persona non grata" in the Philippines for allegedly mocking People's Champ Manny Pacquiao in his Instagram account.

Yacap party-list Rep. Carol Jane Lopez is urging Congress to officially ban the Canadian singer from ever setting foot in the country after he posted allegedly insulting photos of Pacquiao on the Internet.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/12...ys-ph-lawmaker

[metrocard]

Metro -

I respect your opinion but I have to step in and defend MMA.

Boxing will always have a space in American consciousness. Yes it's considered the sweet science and all that, but I think you vastly underrate MMA in terms of what it takes. Lesnar won the heavyweight title in two years training MMA, but he had a lifetime of amateur wrestling experience, which is widely considered the best base for MMA.

Fact is, in regards to Lesnar, there had never been a guy that big who was that fast and that dominant on the ground. When his fights were kept standing (as they were against Velasquez and Overeem) Lesnar crumbled, he did not have the stand up to withstand the beating and did as well as I could standing against those two guys.

I know that MMA fans get a bad rap. Roided out dudes in TapouT Shirts who boo or mock the ground game are clearly the most visible MMA fans. They are a stereotype, but I think you would be surprised at how thoughtful and intelligent a lot of MMA fans are. There are a lot of us who appreciate the science of the ground game, getting to a dominant position to synch in a choke or an arm lock, or to posture up to land strikes. There's actually a lot going on - sometimes I know it doesn't look that way but there are more than a few fights that show how exciting a submission/grappling match can be (see: Julie Kedzie v. Miesha Tate, 15 minutes back and forth grappling). Or look at the newest sensation Ronda Rousey and just how dominant she has been in her fights using only submissions.

Yes I know Joe Rogan screaming in a mic and the blasting of heavy metal at the weigh-ins is super lame. As an MMA fan, I'm pretty embarrassed by that kind of stuff. But I think that roundly dismissing it as "homosexual skinhead cage fighting" (as Bob Arum did), or thinking it's lame because of the presentation ignores a lot of awesomely talented athletes. I agree the presentation is lame, and sometimes an MMA fight can be boring, but I think if you took the time to learn more about it you might not be a huge fan but you'd at least be able to appreciate it.

I just went really extreme, inside my closest friends are MMA fans, I worked with MMA guys as a trainer in a gym for 9 months (they were all brasilian and I had to learn some portuguese to work there). It's a respectable sport, you have to respect anyone who steps in a cage and risk their life and health for the passion of the sport and the entertainment of fans.

I was probably in a bad mood and BananaSauce set it off for me.

[KBlack25]

I just went really extreme, inside my closest friends are MMA fans, I worked with MMA guys as a trainer in a gym for 9 months (they were all brasilian and I had to learn some portuguese to work there). It's a respectable sport, you have to respect anyone who steps in a cage and risk their life and health for the passion of the sport and the entertainment of fans.

I was probably in a bad mood and BananaSauce set it off for me.

Ha no worries!

I think both sports are really great, but different. Of course because of their nature (specifically, how you win) they will always be compared but they are really quite different.

Sometimes the Affliction-wearing Bros ruin it for the rest of us

[KingCharles34]

The twin towers one went a little too far but I cant even say which one was my favorite...the J Cole one, the undertaker one, the Carmelo one are probably my top 3 but im sure of the order

I gotta be honest i dont like MMA but i do respect it alot. Those dudes are some of the toughest dudes on this planet. But a great boxing technician or counter puncher has a chance against anyone. Ill be real you'll never catch me doing MMA but i do wanna spar at least a few times by the time i turn 30. I try to jack Mayweathers style when im shadowboxing with weights, hittin the heavy bag or the combo dummy. Ive also fought like him and successfully won 2 fist fights against people that were stronger then me. I f*ckin love having quick hands, long arms and being very elusive. These fools shoulda tried to wrestle me or something, anything besides letting me lure them into a fist fight But I did get jumped a few summers ago and took my L

[metrocard]

The twin towers one went a little too far but I cant even say which one was my favorite...the J Cole one, the undertaker one, the Carmelo one are probably my top 3 but im sure of the order

I gotta be honest i dont like MMA but i do respect it alot. Those dudes are some of the toughest dudes on this planet. But a great boxing technician or counter puncher has a chance against anyone. Ill be real you'll never catch me doing MMA but i do wanna spar at least a few times by the time i turn 30. I try to jack Mayweathers style when im shadowboxing with weights, hittin the heavy bag or the combo dummy. Ive also fought like him and successfully won 2 fist fights against people that were stronger then me. I f*ckin love having quick hands, long arms and being very elusive. These fools shoulda tried to wrestle me or something, anything besides letting me lure them into a fist fight But I did get jumped a few summers ago and took my L

I'll train you my brother, I did 4 years of wrestling in HS(made all city 4 times, won NYC championships for Mount Saint Michael Academy 3 times). I only been boxing for over a year, but I can share the wrestling and boxing with you.

[KingCharles34]

I'll train you my brother, I did 4 years of wrestling in HS(made all city 4 times, won NYC championships for Mount Saint Michael Academy 3 times). I only been boxing for over a year, but I can share the wrestling and boxing with you.

Metrocard I nickname you the Great Cus D'amato. You will some day train athletes that will dominate all major professional sports. Can we get a picture of Cus and Tyson? We need Cus and Tyson...my Knicksonline sources tell me we have one

[metrocard]

Metrocard I nickname you the Great Cus D'amato. You will some day train athletes that will dominate all major professional sports. Can we get a picture of Cus and Tyson? We need Cus and Tyson...my Knicksonline sources tell me we have one

I was talking about the different type of jabs on nykfanpage

"Working off the jab is not the requirement of good technique." WPJ, to write this as your first point totally discredits you as knowing anything about boxing.

First of all, the jab is the most utilized and important punch in boxing as we know. The jab is quick, fast, and sets up your shots. People with excellent jabs have calm relaxed jabs that hit like a small spark of power and hit very accurately. Jabs can be made stronger by stepping forward, proper timing, and using footwork and angles. Your jab should be strong enough to stop your opponent in the middle of a combination, no more, no less. From there, your jab should be able to set you up to throw your power punches. When use defensively, a jab can make space, keep your opponents away and distract your opponent while you slide off the ropes.

Keep in mind the jab isn't throw in one technique. The regular jab or the standard jab is just that – a jab. You throw the jab from the basic position and step forward with your lead foot as your extend your arm out towards your opponent. As you recover your lead arm, the rear foot moves forward to return you to your basic stance. Tapper jab is a light punch that is used just to make your opponent put up his defenses to give you room to make a bigger punch or to skip out of harm’s way. A tapper jab can be repeated multiple times. The main point is to use the tapper jab to get your opponent’s defenses up; while holding all your energy back for your big right hand since you’re not committing too much to the jab. You can even tap his glove, and then right-hand to his face. Or tap his face and right-hand to his body. (Often used by Bernard Hopkins and Joe Calzaghe)

Then you got a power jab often used by Miguel Cotto (who has knocked down a couple of opponents with it) and Floyd Mayweather. The power jab gets its power from the legs, body rotation, and angle on the opponent. For the legs to generate power into the jab, you have to step forward. You have to step swiftly and powerfully without lunging. At times, a lunging jab might be the perfect weapon to catch your opponent off guard but don’t do it too much or else you’ll get countered. The success of lunging punches requires perfect timing, NOT speed. For your body to power the jab, it has to rotate a bit. The easiest way to rotate your body as you jab is to circle to your opponent’s right side, which is your left side. As your circle, your upper body will have to spin a bit to give you a straight angle shot at your opponent. The movement alone will set your body to move out to the side and throw the punch at your opponent at an angle. Using this angle makes the jab even more devastating. The most important thing to remember through all this is not to **** your jab and send out a signal that you’re going to throw a big jab. Telegraphing punches is amateurish and makes you an easy fighter to read.

The Double Jab works because the fighter tends to look for your right hand after your jab but instead you catch him off guard with another jab. De La Hoya and a lot of Mexican legends were masters of the double jab. You also have a body jab, sometimes double jab to the body mastered by Shane Mosley and Aturo Gatti.

One of the best kind of jabs out there is the counter jab, done with slick timing and works best when you are swift and relaxed. If you tense up or act like you have a counter, it won’t work as well. When your opponent throws a jab, you immediately stop his jab with your right glove, and then step forward and hit him directly in the face with a hard jab. Make sure your head is leaning to the rear a little or else you risk getting hit by his hard right hand if he follows up with it. If he lunges with his jab, you can also take a step back as you block his jab, and then come back forward to strike him with your own. People don’t expect you to go back and forward right away.

WPJ says "The bouncing, as I'm sure you actually know, is designed to create odd angles". 100% wrong. Learn about footwork, blocking, parrying, rolling, slipping, and countering. Learn how each defensive technique is used to create angles, and realize bouncing up and down doesn't create angles. James Toney created angles with his unique masterful slipping technique. You're confusing angle shottings and assuming Pacquiao's bouncing is a technique, where it has exposed him in his career.

We're talking about technique here, you act like since I'm criticizing Pacquiao technique it makes him a bad fighter, when it actually doesn't.
Take a fighter and make him do everything exactly to the textbook, he is nothing but a boxing robot clone.
No mistakes means no style. Every boxer has mistakes and it makes them human.
Bouncing around isn't a technique. It's a style.

Look at Prince Naseem, guy had no defense, but utilized his power (strong calves) and punching from different angles (not due to bouncing around but later and circular body movement). Have to keep your body low to the floor for more power.



Boxers have styles, flaws and are human. You desperately acting like Pacquiao is a god isn't going to help you in this debate...

Thomas Hearns utilized range/length.
Muhammad Ali utilized speed/agility.
Joe Frazier utilized aggression/strength.
Floyd Mayweather utilized defense/reflex.
Mike Tyson utilized power/constant head movement.

Study any boxing champion you can think of and you will see that he was famous for a particular style. Study their careers and you’ll see that many of them lost to opponents that were able to exploit their style...style makes fights papa.

Pacquiao is interesting because he uses a triangle guard that many Muy Thai fighters use...it exposes his body, but Pacquaio has iron abs and can take body punches without being affected.

WPJ says " I'm just saying that the fight was his to take or not, and he chose not. "

Once again...it's pretty much you being lazy to research. Manny Pacquiao "insisted" he’ll fight Floyd Mayweather but offer was financially unacceptable, so he backed out.

Floyd offered Pacquiao 40 million, GURANTEED money. It was far more than he’s ever made. Pacquiao isn't the fighter Mayweather easy and never deserved a 50/50 split. People who study boxing know this...part time boxing fans who come and go like you don't know this and ride the Pacquiao hype. It doesn't matter anymore, Pacquiao retired from boxing and won't be the same fighter again simply due to confidence(very important trait). Mayweather will fight twice in 2013 and continue to climb the ladder in the ATG. It would of been a terrible beatdown to watch Mayweather expose Pacquiao's style...if you think what Marquez did to Pacquiao was bad, Mayweather would potentially make Pacquiao look like Ricky Hatton.

Peace man.

You make some excellent points.

As far as the content, here's where I'd disagree -

Pacs approach, as I said, works from outside angle. Yes, he has a weak jab, as did Roy Jones. Working off the jab is not the requirement of good technique. It sounds like your saying unorthodox = bad, which many people do argue around the gym.

The bouncing, as I'm sure you actually know, is designed to create odd angles which are normally weak due to stance, but are effective with someone with rapid hand acceleration power. The danger is falling into rhythm, so the technical kill lies in keeping the movements unpredictable, which Manny was highly skilled at. Plenty of people have been sure they had the timing before stepping into the ring with him. Look, frankly, I'm sure someone you know at your gym has argued these points with you in the live version of this argument and you damn well know there's another respectably legitimate take on his style, so can the sanctimonious bull****.

In this fight, Marquez's "plan" was to lead Manny in and counter???? Like that's some mystery? That was his plan in all their fights. Of course his plan as the counter puncher was to try and lock in the timing and throw the devastating counter. That's what counter-punchers do, right? The thing about this fight wasn't a change in technique, it was the heat on the shots. Both guys were throwing harder and getting caught more than the prior meetings. The more you commit, the more vulnerable you are - the basic paradox of boxing. In the prior 3, both guys had going the distance somewhere in their thoughts. Not this time. Its not like Manny would approach a Mayweather fight the same way.

You are right that Manny is likely done. That was a helluva shot.

As far as Floyd 'ducking' the fight - I'm not trying to get in Floyd's head and try and predict what that crazy ass mofo thinks about anything, let alone this fight. I'm just saying that the fight was his to take or not, and he chose not. Wasn't Manny that walked away. My favorite fighter of the past 25 years was Holyfield. Not b/c he was the greatest, but because he always tried to fight the best fighter and biggest name out there, no matter what.

[CoolClyde]

wow, this turned into a cool thread. I'm a HUGE fan of the sweet science, and got into MMA about 2 years ago, and I love it as well. With both sports, you're going to have good fights and boring fights, great boxers and bad boxers, excellent MMA fighters who know all aspects of the game (ie: wrestling, grappling, muay thai, ju-jitsu, karate, submissions, boxing, etc) and poor MMA fighters, who are ensconced in 1 or 2 of the overall aspects.

Since I got into MMA, i find more fights interesting, as long as the fighters are evenly matched. with boxing, unless you've got a good fight going on with both fighters having knowledge of the sweet science, i find a lot of fights boring. i think i've been spoiled by the mano-a-mano of the MMA, the blood and elbows and the amount of great fighters.

however, when there's a great matchup like Pac-man vs JMM, it's a pleasure to watch, and when it's 2 great defensive fighters who pack a punch, it's even better.

i've been a big fan of Pac-man over the years, i think his skillset is declining at this point, whereas JMM retains the skills to counterpunch his way to victory via the knockdowns and knockout. it was still a good fight.

i really like the video decoding the Pac-man/JMM 3 fight, thanks for putting that up Metro. i think we should all just agree to disagree what the better sport is, there will always be great fights as long as the fighters are at the top of their class, and there will always be shi*tty contests.

KS3 is a champion of the sweet science of graphics.

if banana-sauce and metro get in the ring, lemme know.

[metrocard]

wow, this turned into a cool thread. I'm a HUGE fan of the sweet science, and got into MMA about 2 years ago, and I love it as well. With both sports, you're going to have good fights and boring fights, great boxers and bad boxers, excellent MMA fighters who know all aspects of the game (ie: wrestling, grappling, muay thai, ju-jitsu, karate, submissions, boxing, etc) and poor MMA fighters, who are ensconced in 1 or 2 of the overall aspects.

Since I got into MMA, i find more fights interesting, as long as the fighters are evenly matched. with boxing, unless you've got a good fight going on with both fighters having knowledge of the sweet science, i find a lot of fights boring. i think i've been spoiled by the mano-a-mano of the MMA, the blood and elbows and the amount of great fighters.

however, when there's a great matchup like Pac-man vs JMM, it's a pleasure to watch, and when it's 2 great defensive fighters who pack a punch, it's even better.

i've been a big fan of Pac-man over the years, i think his skillset is declining at this point, whereas JMM retains the skills to counterpunch his way to victory via the knockdowns and knockout. it was still a good fight.

i really like the video decoding the Pac-man/JMM 3 fight, thanks for putting that up Metro. i think we should all just agree to disagree what the better sport is, there will always be great fights as long as the fighters are at the top of their class, and there will always be shi*tty contests.

KS3 is a champion of the sweet science of graphics.

if banana-sauce and metro get in the ring, lemme know.

I fight at world wide boxing on jerome ave n 205th, but I sparred two times @ Morris Park.

I was gonna put my name in the gloves, but I don't personally feel like I'm ready.