Marquez vs Pacquiao IV

Who wins this time?

  • Pacquiao

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • Marquez

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • Draw

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2
  • Poll closed .

metrocard

Legend
The twin towers one went a little too far but I cant even say which one was my favorite...the J Cole one, the undertaker one, the Carmelo one are probably my top 3 but im sure of the order

I gotta be honest i dont like MMA but i do respect it alot. Those dudes are some of the toughest dudes on this planet. But a great boxing technician or counter puncher has a chance against anyone. Ill be real you'll never catch me doing MMA but i do wanna spar at least a few times by the time i turn 30. I try to jack Mayweathers style when im shadowboxing with weights, hittin the heavy bag or the combo dummy. Ive also fought like him and successfully won 2 fist fights against people that were stronger then me. I f*ckin love having quick hands, long arms and being very elusive. These fools shoulda tried to wrestle me or something, anything besides letting me lure them into a fist fight :lol: But I did get jumped a few summers ago and took my L
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I'll train you my brother, I did 4 years of wrestling in HS(made all city 4 times, won NYC championships for Mount Saint Michael Academy 3 times). I only been boxing for over a year, but I can share the wrestling and boxing with you.
 

KingCharles34

All Star
I'll train you my brother, I did 4 years of wrestling in HS(made all city 4 times, won NYC championships for Mount Saint Michael Academy 3 times). I only been boxing for over a year, but I can share the wrestling and boxing with you.

Metrocard I nickname you the Great Cus D'amato. You will some day train athletes that will dominate all major professional sports. Can we get a picture of Cus and Tyson? We need Cus and Tyson...my Knicksonline sources tell me we have one

350px-Damato.jpg
 

metrocard

Legend
Metrocard I nickname you the Great Cus D'amato. You will some day train athletes that will dominate all major professional sports. Can we get a picture of Cus and Tyson? We need Cus and Tyson...my Knicksonline sources tell me we have one

350px-Damato.jpg

I was talking about the different type of jabs on nykfanpage

BXGuy said:
"Working off the jab is not the requirement of good technique." WPJ, to write this as your first point totally discredits you as knowing anything about boxing.

First of all, the jab is the most utilized and important punch in boxing as we know. The jab is quick, fast, and sets up your shots. People with excellent jabs have calm relaxed jabs that hit like a small spark of power and hit very accurately. Jabs can be made stronger by stepping forward, proper timing, and using footwork and angles. Your jab should be strong enough to stop your opponent in the middle of a combination, no more, no less. From there, your jab should be able to set you up to throw your power punches. When use defensively, a jab can make space, keep your opponents away and distract your opponent while you slide off the ropes.

Keep in mind the jab isn't throw in one technique. The regular jab or the standard jab is just that ? a jab. You throw the jab from the basic position and step forward with your lead foot as your extend your arm out towards your opponent. As you recover your lead arm, the rear foot moves forward to return you to your basic stance. Tapper jab is a light punch that is used just to make your opponent put up his defenses to give you room to make a bigger punch or to skip out of harm?s way. A tapper jab can be repeated multiple times. The main point is to use the tapper jab to get your opponent?s defenses up; while holding all your energy back for your big right hand since you?re not committing too much to the jab. You can even tap his glove, and then right-hand to his face. Or tap his face and right-hand to his body. (Often used by Bernard Hopkins and Joe Calzaghe)

Then you got a power jab often used by Miguel Cotto (who has knocked down a couple of opponents with it) and Floyd Mayweather. The power jab gets its power from the legs, body rotation, and angle on the opponent. For the legs to generate power into the jab, you have to step forward. You have to step swiftly and powerfully without lunging. At times, a lunging jab might be the perfect weapon to catch your opponent off guard but don?t do it too much or else you?ll get countered. The success of lunging punches requires perfect timing, NOT speed. For your body to power the jab, it has to rotate a bit. The easiest way to rotate your body as you jab is to circle to your opponent?s right side, which is your left side. As your circle, your upper body will have to spin a bit to give you a straight angle shot at your opponent. The movement alone will set your body to move out to the side and throw the punch at your opponent at an angle. Using this angle makes the jab even more devastating. The most important thing to remember through all this is not to **** your jab and send out a signal that you?re going to throw a big jab. Telegraphing punches is amateurish and makes you an easy fighter to read.

The Double Jab works because the fighter tends to look for your right hand after your jab but instead you catch him off guard with another jab. De La Hoya and a lot of Mexican legends were masters of the double jab. You also have a body jab, sometimes double jab to the body mastered by Shane Mosley and Aturo Gatti.

One of the best kind of jabs out there is the counter jab, done with slick timing and works best when you are swift and relaxed. If you tense up or act like you have a counter, it won?t work as well. When your opponent throws a jab, you immediately stop his jab with your right glove, and then step forward and hit him directly in the face with a hard jab. Make sure your head is leaning to the rear a little or else you risk getting hit by his hard right hand if he follows up with it. If he lunges with his jab, you can also take a step back as you block his jab, and then come back forward to strike him with your own. People don?t expect you to go back and forward right away.

WPJ says "The bouncing, as I'm sure you actually know, is designed to create odd angles". 100% wrong. Learn about footwork, blocking, parrying, rolling, slipping, and countering. Learn how each defensive technique is used to create angles, and realize bouncing up and down doesn't create angles. James Toney created angles with his unique masterful slipping technique. You're confusing angle shottings and assuming Pacquiao's bouncing is a technique, where it has exposed him in his career.

We're talking about technique here, you act like since I'm criticizing Pacquiao technique it makes him a bad fighter, when it actually doesn't.
Take a fighter and make him do everything exactly to the textbook, he is nothing but a boxing robot clone.
No mistakes means no style. Every boxer has mistakes and it makes them human.
Bouncing around isn't a technique. It's a style.

Look at Prince Naseem, guy had no defense, but utilized his power (strong calves) and punching from different angles (not due to bouncing around but later and circular body movement). Have to keep your body low to the floor for more power.



Boxers have styles, flaws and are human. You desperately acting like Pacquiao is a god isn't going to help you in this debate...

Thomas Hearns utilized range/length.
Muhammad Ali utilized speed/agility.
Joe Frazier utilized aggression/strength.
Floyd Mayweather utilized defense/reflex.
Mike Tyson utilized power/constant head movement.

Study any boxing champion you can think of and you will see that he was famous for a particular style. Study their careers and you?ll see that many of them lost to opponents that were able to exploit their style...style makes fights papa.

Pacquiao is interesting because he uses a triangle guard that many Muy Thai fighters use...it exposes his body, but Pacquaio has iron abs and can take body punches without being affected.

WPJ says " I'm just saying that the fight was his to take or not, and he chose not. "

Once again...it's pretty much you being lazy to research. Manny Pacquiao "insisted" he?ll fight Floyd Mayweather but offer was financially unacceptable, so he backed out.

Floyd offered Pacquiao 40 million, GURANTEED money. It was far more than he?s ever made. Pacquiao isn't the fighter Mayweather easy and never deserved a 50/50 split. People who study boxing know this...part time boxing fans who come and go like you don't know this and ride the Pacquiao hype. It doesn't matter anymore, Pacquiao retired from boxing and won't be the same fighter again simply due to confidence(very important trait). Mayweather will fight twice in 2013 and continue to climb the ladder in the ATG. It would of been a terrible beatdown to watch Mayweather expose Pacquiao's style...if you think what Marquez did to Pacquiao was bad, Mayweather would potentially make Pacquiao look like Ricky Hatton.

Peace man.

washingtonparkjones said:
You make some excellent points.

As far as the content, here's where I'd disagree -

Pacs approach, as I said, works from outside angle. Yes, he has a weak jab, as did Roy Jones. Working off the jab is not the requirement of good technique. It sounds like your saying unorthodox = bad, which many people do argue around the gym.

The bouncing, as I'm sure you actually know, is designed to create odd angles which are normally weak due to stance, but are effective with someone with rapid hand acceleration power. The danger is falling into rhythm, so the technical kill lies in keeping the movements unpredictable, which Manny was highly skilled at. Plenty of people have been sure they had the timing before stepping into the ring with him. Look, frankly, I'm sure someone you know at your gym has argued these points with you in the live version of this argument and you damn well know there's another respectably legitimate take on his style, so can the sanctimonious bull****.

In this fight, Marquez's "plan" was to lead Manny in and counter???? Like that's some mystery? That was his plan in all their fights. Of course his plan as the counter puncher was to try and lock in the timing and throw the devastating counter. That's what counter-punchers do, right? The thing about this fight wasn't a change in technique, it was the heat on the shots. Both guys were throwing harder and getting caught more than the prior meetings. The more you commit, the more vulnerable you are - the basic paradox of boxing. In the prior 3, both guys had going the distance somewhere in their thoughts. Not this time. Its not like Manny would approach a Mayweather fight the same way.

You are right that Manny is likely done. That was a helluva shot.

As far as Floyd 'ducking' the fight - I'm not trying to get in Floyd's head and try and predict what that crazy ass mofo thinks about anything, let alone this fight. I'm just saying that the fight was his to take or not, and he chose not. Wasn't Manny that walked away. My favorite fighter of the past 25 years was Holyfield. Not b/c he was the greatest, but because he always tried to fight the best fighter and biggest name out there, no matter what.
 

CoolClyde

Moderator
wow, this turned into a cool thread. I'm a HUGE fan of the sweet science, and got into MMA about 2 years ago, and I love it as well. With both sports, you're going to have good fights and boring fights, great boxers and bad boxers, excellent MMA fighters who know all aspects of the game (ie: wrestling, grappling, muay thai, ju-jitsu, karate, submissions, boxing, etc) and poor MMA fighters, who are ensconced in 1 or 2 of the overall aspects.

Since I got into MMA, i find more fights interesting, as long as the fighters are evenly matched. with boxing, unless you've got a good fight going on with both fighters having knowledge of the sweet science, i find a lot of fights boring. i think i've been spoiled by the mano-a-mano of the MMA, the blood and elbows and the amount of great fighters.

however, when there's a great matchup like Pac-man vs JMM, it's a pleasure to watch, and when it's 2 great defensive fighters who pack a punch, it's even better.

i've been a big fan of Pac-man over the years, i think his skillset is declining at this point, whereas JMM retains the skills to counterpunch his way to victory via the knockdowns and knockout. it was still a good fight.

i really like the video decoding the Pac-man/JMM 3 fight, thanks for putting that up Metro. i think we should all just agree to disagree what the better sport is, there will always be great fights as long as the fighters are at the top of their class, and there will always be shi*tty contests.

KS3 is a champion of the sweet science of graphics.

if banana-sauce and metro get in the ring, lemme know.
 

metrocard

Legend
wow, this turned into a cool thread. I'm a HUGE fan of the sweet science, and got into MMA about 2 years ago, and I love it as well. With both sports, you're going to have good fights and boring fights, great boxers and bad boxers, excellent MMA fighters who know all aspects of the game (ie: wrestling, grappling, muay thai, ju-jitsu, karate, submissions, boxing, etc) and poor MMA fighters, who are ensconced in 1 or 2 of the overall aspects.

Since I got into MMA, i find more fights interesting, as long as the fighters are evenly matched. with boxing, unless you've got a good fight going on with both fighters having knowledge of the sweet science, i find a lot of fights boring. i think i've been spoiled by the mano-a-mano of the MMA, the blood and elbows and the amount of great fighters.

however, when there's a great matchup like Pac-man vs JMM, it's a pleasure to watch, and when it's 2 great defensive fighters who pack a punch, it's even better.

i've been a big fan of Pac-man over the years, i think his skillset is declining at this point, whereas JMM retains the skills to counterpunch his way to victory via the knockdowns and knockout. it was still a good fight.

i really like the video decoding the Pac-man/JMM 3 fight, thanks for putting that up Metro. i think we should all just agree to disagree what the better sport is, there will always be great fights as long as the fighters are at the top of their class, and there will always be shi*tty contests.

KS3 is a champion of the sweet science of graphics.

if banana-sauce and metro get in the ring, lemme know.

I fight at world wide boxing on jerome ave n 205th, but I sparred two times @ Morris Park.

I was gonna put my name in the gloves, but I don't personally feel like I'm ready.
 

clumsy

Rotation player
I agree Manny relied on athleticism in his prime but to say he was only marginally better than Arturo Gatti? To me at his prime was Roy Jones like. Gatti can never say that.
 

KingCharles34

All Star
This one right here guys, on my :lol:


original.jpg


I was talking about the different type of jabs on nykfanpage

Very interesting post, Zab Judah used to c*ck his jab (I think thats what got edited out from your post). I remember De La Hoya stiffened Mosleys back with his jab. Such an underrated weapon, regardless of what type(s) of jab(s) a boxer has...should be the first thing learned, smh @ that fool overlooking the importance of a jab.

Boxing is similar to how a hitman trains...Start with the guns that give u the most distance making the knife the last thing they learn. The jab is what allows a boxer to fight at the distance they want and work off the jab.
 
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