10/31/13: New York Knicks @ Chicago Bulls (8:00 pm)

PaPZ187

Benchwarmer
There were never any ISO-plays in Doc Rivers (top passing-skillz) BIG-3 plus Rondo .. Ray Allen was the catch n shoot closer

Man you must of hardly watched Boston then....I live in Boston, majority of my friends are Celtics fans, they knew atleast 75% of the time ISO Pierce would be the play when game was on the line and they had the last shot.

I've seen plenty of Celtics games throughout Doc's tenure......ISO Pierce was the play way more times than not in a 1 possession game when Boston had the last shot. ....just stating the facts.....also never said that's al the ran, but it was VERY common play they would run in these type of situations.

check out the videos and link to a Celtics forum below for yourself since you have no clue what your talking about if you think Doc never ran ISO Pierce at end of games lol

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PaPZ187

Benchwarmer
first of all, I never said that ISO Pierce was all Doc ran in a one possession game in the final minute.....I said it happens more often than not.....for you to act like this is some ground breaking news is ridiculous.....no need to get all emotional over my post.....yes I realize Doc has run plays for KG and Ray such as both hit game winners in the 2012 series vs us......but ISO Pierce was run a ton of the time at the end of games don't get it twists .here are plenty of times ISO Pierce was the play in the final minute of the game.....

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RRnpHgyzQoA

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnvoVm6yj2A

this video alone has a half dozen ISO Pierce shots at the buzzer (not every shot in this video is an ISO buzzer beater though, but plenty of examples of Doc running ISO for final shot):
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eFf6eDPsGHA

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uOOwPAUYSWs

Here's one vs NYK...Pierce for the switch to Amare, isolated and hit GW
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uYlHEP3XuKQ

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wOXmReXxp54

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=msjPaxxIovc

got the switch, missed GW vs SA

my apologies if there are duplicate videos.....my internet is lagging so took forever to load a video, copy then paste
 

PaPZ187

Benchwarmer
From a Celtics forum, talking about how often Doc runs the ISO Pierce play at the end of games.....link and first post below:

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=55092.0[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]

Disappointing to see Doc call the Paul Pierce isolation once again late in the game. I
t's hard to believe that instead of stressing ball movement and avoiding the "hero ball" that Doc detests he falls right back into allowing Pierce to dribble around and take a contested shot.

The worst part is that Doc was happy with the shot and Paul sees nothing wrong with the late game execution either.

"Listen, Paul Pierce taking a step-back at the [free throw line], that's not a bad option," said Rivers. "I just wish we could have done it a bit earlier."

"I was trying to make the shot," said Pierce. "I got the switch on the big man, got to a good place -- I just missed the shot.?

Pressed on if he considered driving, or if he expected the Spurs to give a foul, Pierce shrugged off both notions.

"This type of stuff is not really pre-scripted, you don?t have an idea of what?s going to happen in those type of situations," said Pierce. "You get in those pressure situations and sometimes they work and sometimes they don?t, but the thing is I?m not going to second guess my decision. I thought I got a great shot, created some space right there at the free throw line. It's just some days they fall, some days they don?t."

Doc did seem a bit frustrated that Pierce waited around too long instead of getting into the play quicker -

"We actually said that they probably would [give the foul] and we were trying to get Duncan on a Paul matchup, because we thought we had the speed advantage," said Rivers. "We wanted him to go a little quicker because I thought [Pierce] could?ve beat [Duncan] off the dribble and he would?ve reached the foul line and you know Paul has a knack of getting the ball up. But his step-back is what he wants. I just thought we waited a little too late in the clock.?

The Celtics had 2 timeouts to go over this play and it would seem Doc was stressing to get moving quickly. It made no sense for Pierce to dribble and wait until the last second to shoot. At the very least put up a shot with enough time to grab an offensive rebound and another chance to score. The Celtics had just held the Spurs to 28 points in the second half so even if Boston had left time on the clock their stellar defense would have had a great chance to finish the game.

Paul Pierce is a clutch player and has hit many huge shots over his career. Of course he is a top option to take big shots late in games. However relying on Pierce dribbling around and taking contested jumpers instead of using ball movement to get himself or a teammate a much better shot makes little sense.

It's disappointing that Doc isn't able to come up with a better option than just giving Pierce the ball and having everyone else uninvolved late in games. Ray had just hit a wide open look from 3 on the previous possession which resulted from great ball movement.

Instead of running an offensive set Doc went right back to his comfort zone of allowing Pierce to take over by himself. Doc seems to be missing the point that teams have no problem with allowing Pierce to take contested fadeaway jumpers in crunch time. Otherwise the Spurs would have double teamed to prevent the play that everyone knew was coming. Opposing teams just funnel Pierce further outside and live with the results of a contested shot. If the Celtics would change the script and run a different set then Pierce or his teammates could get much better looks. Instead of seeing this Doc just keeps insisting that isolating Pierce is a good way to finish games even if the results rarely are successful...[/FONT]





http://www.celticsblog.com/2010/12/16/1879732/no-doubt-on-pierces-final-shot:

"The Paul Pierce isolation play probably defies conventional wisdom in a number of ways. It's predictable (when Pierce is still dribbling above the three point line on the right side with six seconds left, everyone knows what's about to happen), and, as far as I know, the stats don't back it up (apparently that mid-range jumper Pierce so often takes is one of worst shots a player can take in terms of percentage). But there are times where you throw conventional wisdom out the window and just rely on your player. Sometimes we just have to forget about the stats and percentages and trust our guy to do what he does pretty darn well."



Have no idea why some felt the need to "call me out" for stating that Doc ran a lot of. ISO Pierce at the of games when this is nothin new.......was just stating a fact nothing more........so before some call me out and tell me to"watch Basketball or don't" do yourself a favor and take your own advice before you get all emotional and call someone out for stating facts.
 

PaPZ187

Benchwarmer
I recall at least 3gms out of he past 3 yrs against us, Doc has drawn up plays to beat in those situations. Garnett and Pierce dropping daggers. I also recall Ray Allen winning at least 2-3gms for the Celtics in the clutch... over the same stretch.

So I stand by what I said. I was referring more to drawing up plays out of timeouts and Doc is widely regarded as one of the best in the business. I could care less how many games you say you watched. Obviously you haven't watched enough or your memory is failing you tremendously

But just for you let's go down memory lane.....





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Check out my posts and videos above if you think Doc didn't run ISO Pierce more often than not. AGAIN, never said that's all he ran, I obviously remember the game winners by KG and Allen in 2012 playoffs, but it was definitely more often than not Pierce was getting isolation on final shot......just read what Boston fans said about how often that play was run down the stretch.
 

KingCharles34

All Star
Not a huge fan of the iso melo shot at the end of the game Thursday night but ehhh the Bulls are a great team. You win some, you lose some. Hopefully the Knicks players have already forgot about thursday, theres a game tomorrow against a rebounding machine thats destroyed us in the past

I hope the new and improved Tyson Chandler is ready to do some boxing out. Actually, World Peace might be the perfect guy to put on Kevin Love. Peace understand that leaving a guy like Love alone is asking for trouble. You leave that guy for a second and hes either gonna steal a rebound or knock down a 3. U gotta stick to him like velcro
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
BTW, did anyone notice that the Bulls PA announcer didn't announce D-Rose being from Memphis during the intro? It was "at blahblahblah, number 1, from Chicago". It'd be so cool if Walczewski started announcing Melo (and MWP) "from New York".
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Man you must of hardly watched Boston then....I live in Boston, majority of my friends are Celtics fans, they knew atleast 75% of the time ISO Pierce would be the play when game was on the line and they had the last shot.

I've seen plenty of Celtics games throughout Doc's tenure......ISO Pierce was the play way more times than not in a 1 possession game when Boston had the last shot. ....just stating the facts.....also never said that's al the ran, but it was VERY common play they would run in these type of situations.

check out the videos and link to a Celtics forum below for yourself since you have no clue what your talking about if you think Doc never ran ISO Pierce at end of games lol
Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


Im not speakin on HC Doc Rivers Lastseason in a desperation Celtics team ....
Im speakin on Doc Rivers "BIG-3 plus Rondo" having several "One on One" plays for each of the BIG-3 with Rondo creating the one on one for each of the BIG-3. When u have a PG u could always pass the ball back and forth with on a "one n one" its not considered a Isolation play.
I hate to say it, Celtricks had the best-ball-movement team in the NBA for 3 years when they had Perkins/BigBaby on the roster 2007 to 2010.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Check out my posts and videos above if you think Doc didn't run ISO Pierce more often than not. AGAIN, never said that's all he ran, I obviously remember the game winners by KG and Allen in 2012 playoffs, but it was definitely more often than not Pierce was getting isolation on final shot......just read what Boston fans said about how often that play was run down the stretch.


Pierce has always been one of the top highest scorers in the 2nd-half, and 4th quarter closers of a game throughout his career.
This is why Boston paid Pierce star-salary money for 15 years.

Yeah, Pierce still did/do run some of the isolation-plays he ran early in his career with Walker.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
No idea what happened with Udrih. I hope this **** doesn't happen again. Play him.


I dunno, Beno came into camp weight-weight outta-shape ..
I would give Beno 3 weeks workin-out with the team before givin him steady playintime
Murry should be givin spot-minutes at PG.

I still want to see "Amare & K-Mart" receive 18 to 24 minutes of playingtime in every rotation.
I do not want to see Melo in the same-lineup with Amare.
If Amare is not going to be a STARTER, than K-Mart is the next option at starter.
Let Amare & Meta tandem off the bench.
 

RunningJumper

Super Moderator
I dunno, Beno came into camp weight-weight outta-shape ..
I would give Beno 3 weeks workin-out with the team before givin him steady playintime
Murry should be givin spot-minutes at PG.
Beno got much better despite maybe not being in top shape, but three weeks isn't bad. I still think he shouldn't not be played though.

I'm all for Murry getting spot minutes. I was impressed with his versatility. One or more of the Knicks commentators was saying he brought the D too which I didn't notice/see, so even more reason to give him a little time.

I like the guards the Knicks have. No complaints whatsoever. Woodson didn't make use of the big men he had last year, hopefully he makes use of the guards, especially since unlike some of the big men last season these guards are healthy and young (even Prigioni is young comparably to others his age because of his low NBA mileage and he takes care of his body very well).
 
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