2013/11/14 New York Knicks vs Houston Rockets 8:00 PM

metrocard

Legend
the foul isn't called until Melo is in shooting motion.
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WVKnickfan

Rotation player
This lose goes squarely on Melo and Woodson. Melo was played a GREAT game in the first half but in the 3rd he did not do good at all. Then in the 4th he and smith was shooting every shot and completely forgot all about Bargnani when he was on fire.Melo got the big idea in his head well this is my team and I am going to take over. Yep he took over and CHOKED once again costing the knicks a win.

Woodson needs blamed for this also b/c he waits way to long to put Bargnani back in games. He sat on the bench forever when he should have been on the floor draining baskets. I tell you right now Bargnani is going to big a big reason the knicks win this year BUT the coach has to play him and the so called superstar has to pass the ball to him when he has three defenders on him instead of shooting.

Bottom line is if woodson would have played Bargnani more and if Melo and Smith wouldn't have went 2 againist five and pass the ball to Bargnani they would have won.You got a first hand look tonight on why Melo isn't a team player!!
 

metrocard

Legend
We're going to blame this game on the guy who scored over 40 points with 10 rebounds and played his heart out?

Alright.
 

LeFlume

All Star
I agree with Lercher, 12 points of the bench is not good enough. We got robbed on a few calls no doubt but the bench was just awful and thats the game right there.
 

skisloper

Starter
We're going to blame this game on the guy who scored over 40 points with 10 rebounds and played his heart out?

Alright.


Melo is expected to score like that and rebound......BUT.....in the 4th quarter it becomes Melo ISO as the set play..there were times Melo is double teamed and he takes the shot.........Just like Woody its clear to the defense that melo wont pass and they lay off their man to double team......

THIS LOSS IS ON WOODY..........HOW IN THE WORLD DOES HE KEEP FELTON AS OUR STARTING PG.....LIN MADE FELTON LOOK AMATUER AND THAT SAYS ALOT...........
 

WVKnickfan

Rotation player
We're going to blame this game on the guy who scored over 40 points with 10 rebounds and played his heart out?

Alright.

Yep I am b/c clearly blaming melo he thought about nobody else tonight(except for smith) in the 3rd and 4th quarters but himself.What why couldn't he play the 3rd and 4th the same way he played in the first half? He was spreading the ball around and actually running a nba offense but the 2nd half he was a different player and he went back to iso melo which never works. Woody not stoping this one on one crap is to blame too.
 

NY17KNICKS

★Melo Mafia★
We've got THREE major things to blame this loss on.

1.Head Coach Mike Woodson: This dude is the definition of clueless.

2.Raymond Felton: Rays a desperation backup on a losing team at best.

3.JR SMITH: DUDE SHOT 4-16 AND GO BACK TO POINT #1 OF WHY HE WAS ALLOWED TO KEEP SHOOTING.
 

Fat Elvis

Benchwarmer
I'm completely furious about these BS calls that cost us the game.

Beyond that, I found this game pretty encouraging. Why?

Bargnani stepped up on both ends of the floor.
Melo found his groove.
We fought back when we were down by ten - multiple times.
We almost won a game playing against a big center. Most thought we would get killed.
We showed heart.

Yes, our bench sucked, and JR shot horribly. But I don't think those will be long-term concerns. Both will improve.

We just need to hold on until Tyson AND Jeremy Tyler get back. DO NOT TRADE SHUMP! We'll be fine once Tyson comes back, we get Tyler, and we have some time to jell. I'm not thrilled about Felton's play either, but we don't have much choice right now (other than starting Prig, which I would be totally fine with). Felton's a weak starting PG, but he's also one of the cheapest, and we have cap issues.

Freaking refs.
 

metrocard

Legend
Yep I am b/c clearly blaming melo he thought about nobody else tonight(except for smith) in the 3rd and 4th quarters but himself.What why couldn't he play the 3rd and 4th the same way he played in the first half? He was spreading the ball around and actually running a nba offense but the 2nd half he was a different player and he went back to iso melo which never works. Woody not stoping this one on one crap is to blame too.

So without Melo, Knicks win this game?
 

WVKnickfan

Rotation player
So without Melo, Knicks win this game?


No I am not saying that at all.. Im saying with a smarter Melo we would have won that game tonight. We seen the melo that playes team ball in the first half and seen the me,myself and I melo in the 2nd half. The guy would be the best player in the league if he used his talent the right way.
 

mafra

Legend
I cannot fathom how stupid Woodson must be to employ the hack-a-Howard, but then not reiterate, remind, reinforce the fact that you cannot foul him with under two minutes to play.

I am also sick and tired of playing 82 road games. We are the only team in the NBA, with a true legit star, that gets ZERO hometown calls. For example, Bargs drains a three to tie it with five to play in the fourth, crowd chanting, knicks playing defense. Shot clock down to 1. Parsons takes an off-balanced shot from outside the paint. Whistle blows. Two free throws. Really? A phantom call simply because the defender sort of exhibits a slight downward motion with his hand. This is a second year player, drafted in the second round. This isn't Kobe.

Meanwhile, on our own home floor, I saw plenty of fouls NOT called on Melo... A star, playing on his home court, who was red hot. One drive in particular stood out: the defender had his hand on Anthony's back and blatantly swiped down on the ball, after raising hand high, then swooping down and missing. I don't recall freaking Steve Kerrr saying something then about forcing the ref to blow his whistle.

And, on the play the HOU player hurt himself... Melo drives, and this guy isn't planted... Carmelo's lower body is clobbered by this guy, who is jumping in a shifting direction towards where Melo was attacking. He doesnt jump straight up. Melo doesn't jump into him. He shuffles to the middle a bit and even had one foot inside the mini-arc. That much contact has to be a foul.

Knicks shot 2 Free Throws in the 2nd and 3rd quarters combined. This is why the NBA is a joke. We already know of one ref who rigged games for gamblers. Tonight was the perfect example. A non-call here, a bailout call there, suddenly guess what? Basketball is the only sport where officials actually have the power to award points to a team. In a game where the score is close, and lets be honest... Most NBA games.... it's 83-78 with 7 left in the fourth.

Melo not getting 4 FT shots and Parsons awarded 2... That's a six point swing right there. I understand refs suck. Officiating is terrible. Worst of all major sports. But after the Ewing era, and now with Melo... We consistently have home court taken away by the refs. When Melo gets no respect and Parsons is treated like an all-star.... Hard to overcome things.

Now, on to the game, I want to cry after every game.... Just knowing that (in a guard league) we start arguably the worst PG-SG combo in North America, and the just constantly reminds me that this team is going nowhere until we deal Shumpert for a viable PG. Felton-Shumpert were awful once again. HOw many times did Felton basically hand HOU the ball? We should contact Elias, because a world record must've been broken tonight by Raymond, for the most missed layups in a Professional career. We need to trade Shumpert and get a PG. I'll take Vazquez or Dragic plz.

We are good with JR and Hardaway at SG. We're not winning with defense, so get a true floor general. That means more to our chances than this supposed defense Shump is purported to play.
 

metrocard

Legend
I cannot fathom how stupid Woodson must be to employ the hack-a-Howard, but then not reiterate, remind, reinforce the fact that you cannot foul him with under two minutes to play.

I am also sick and tired of playing 82 road games. We are the only team in the NBA, with a true legit star, that gets ZERO hometown calls. For example, Bargs drains a three to tie it with five to play in the fourth, crowd chanting, knicks playing defense. Shot clock down to 1. Parsons takes an off-balanced shot from outside the paint. Whistle blows. Two free throws. Really? A phantom call simply because the defender sort of exhibits a slight downward motion with his hand. This is a second year player, drafted in the second round. This isn't Kobe.

Meanwhile, on our own home floor, I saw plenty of fouls NOT called on Melo... A star, playing on his home court, who was red hot. One drive in particular stood out: the defender had his hand on Anthony's back and blatantly swiped down on the ball, after raising hand high, then swooping down and missing. I don't recall freaking Steve Kerrr saying something then about forcing the ref to blow his whistle.

And, on the play the HOU player hurt himself... Melo drives, and this guy isn't planted... Carmelo's lower body is clobbered by this guy, who is jumping in a shifting direction towards where Melo was attacking. He doesnt jump straight up. Melo doesn't jump into him. He shuffles to the middle a bit and even had one foot inside the mini-arc. That much contact has to be a foul.

Knicks shot 2 Free Throws in the 2nd and 3rd quarters combined. This is why the NBA is a joke. We already know of one ref who rigged games for gamblers. Tonight was the perfect example. A non-call here, a bailout call there, suddenly guess what? Basketball is the only sport where officials actually have the power to award points to a team. In a game where the score is close, and lets be honest... Most NBA games.... it's 83-78 with 7 left in the fourth.

Melo not getting 4 FT shots and Parsons awarded 2... That's a six point swing right there. I understand refs suck. Officiating is terrible. Worst of all major sports. But after the Ewing era, and now with Melo... We consistently have home court taken away by the refs. When Melo gets no respect and Parsons is treated like an all-star.... Hard to overcome things.

Now, on to the game, I want to cry after every game.... Just knowing that (in a guard league) we start arguably the worst PG-SG combo in North America, and the just constantly reminds me that this team is going nowhere until we deal Shumpert for a viable PG. Felton-Shumpert were awful once again. HOw many times did Felton basically hand HOU the ball? We should contact Elias, because a world record must've been broken tonight by Raymond, for the most missed layups in a Professional career. We need to trade Shumpert and get a PG. I'll take Vazquez or Dragic plz.

We are good with JR and Hardaway at SG. We're not winning with defense, so get a true floor general. That means more to our chances than this supposed defense Shump is purported to play.

Woodson doesn't seem to be firm on his gameplans at all. He lets the other team control the pace of the game and doesn't adjust or make changes to stop it.

You're so right.
I was thinking earlier, is Carmelo really an NBA super star?

He doesn't dunk.
He doesn't get on the NBA highlights often, Jeff Green gets on NBA highlights more than Melo these days.
Melo gets zero respect from the refs, I've see little Jose Juan Barea benefit from the refs more than Melo has ever tried.

So is Melo really an NBA superstar?

I am not questioning his talent and skill, he's top 10-15 in the NBA.

But I think Melo is destined to lose for the rest of his career. No help from the refs, a play style that isn't fan friendly and worst of all that silly LeBron vs Melo rivarly that weights over Melo's head for the rest of his career. No matter what Melo does, he will always be looked down by LeBron.


The NBA is almost as bad as boxing. Boxing is known to have the worst judges in the galaxy. NBA refs are getting up there in corruption and killing the hype to a game.



Knicks back court vs our center position, what's worse right now?

I disagree with JR and Hardaway.

Melo already provides scoring at the perimeter. JR and Hardaway play too much isolation, it doesn't help ball movement when we already have Melo on the floor. Keep one, but not two.

Don't give up on Shumpert yet.
What's the rush? We're not going to compete in the playoffs this season. We'll make the playoffs, but do you honestly think we'll take 3-4 games away from teams like Indiana, Miami, Chicago etc.

Trading Shumpert will be as foolish as trading Lee or Ariza, who are both very good starters for their teams. We draft a good player, get impatient and trade him for a rental.

How have that worked out for us?
It never did, it never will.

Keep Shumpert and let him find his rhythm.
He's really in his 2nd year in the NBA, considering he played two half seasons.
We know Shumpert can play defense, pass the ball and shows potential to spot up shoot.
He has a good assist to turnover ratio, he can be our modern day Doug Christie who was an excellent championship caliber SG.

Only problem is, we don't have an all star PG to play next to Shumpert.

Trust me...

A PG in the mold of Chris Paul, Rubio, Westbrook, Irving or Curry would prefer to play Shumpert than JR Smith.

Shumpert is a complimentary SG and that's important in building a great team.

Felton is obviously the worst starting PG in the NBA, so we need a major upgrade at the PG position, plus a legit shot blocking center who can hold down the paint.
 

mafra

Legend
Woodson doesn't seem to be firm on his gameplans at all. He lets the other team control the pace of the game and doesn't adjust or make changes to stop it.

You're so right.
I was thinking earlier, is Carmelo really an NBA super star?

He doesn't dunk.
He doesn't get on the NBA highlights often, Jeff Green gets on NBA highlights more than Melo these days.
Melo gets zero respect from the refs, I've see little Jose Juan Barea benefit from the refs more than Melo has ever tried.

So is Melo really an NBA superstar?

I am not questioning his talent and skill, he's top 10-15 in the NBA.

But I think Melo is destined to lose for the rest of his career. No help from the refs, a play style that isn't fan friendly and worst of all that silly LeBron vs Melo rivarly that weights over Melo's head for the rest of his career. No matter what Melo does, he will always be looked down by LeBron.


The NBA is almost as bad as boxing. Boxing is known to have the worst judges in the galaxy. NBA refs are getting up there in corruption and killing the hype to a game.



Knicks back court vs our center position, what's worse right now?

I disagree with JR and Hardaway.

Melo already provides scoring at the perimeter. JR and Hardaway play too much isolation, it doesn't help ball movement when we already have Melo on the floor. Keep one, but not two.

Don't give up on Shumpert yet.
What's the rush? We're not going to compete in the playoffs this season. We'll make the playoffs, but do you honestly think we'll take 3-4 games away from teams like Indiana, Miami, Chicago etc.

Trading Shumpert will be as foolish as trading Lee or Ariza, who are both very good starters for their teams. We draft a good player, get impatient and trade him for a rental.

How have that worked out for us?
It never did, it never will.

Keep Shumpert and let him find his rhythm.
He's really in his 2nd year in the NBA, considering he played two half seasons.
We know Shumpert can play defense, pass the ball and shows potential to spot up shoot.
He has a good assist to turnover ratio, he can be our modern day Doug Christie who was an excellent championship caliber SG.

Only problem is, we don't have an all star PG to play next to Shumpert.

Trust me...

A PG in the mold of Chris Paul, Rubio, Westbrook, Irving or Curry would prefer to play Shumpert than JR Smith.

Shumpert is a complimentary SG and that's important in building a great team.

Felton is obviously the worst starting PG in the NBA, so we need a major upgrade at the PG position, plus a legit shot blocking center who can hold down the paint.
I think the front office realizes what most felt was the truth in the draft a couple years ago.... Knicks needed a gritty rebounder down in the paint. Kenneth Fareid was the answer. They opted for Shump instead. Both decent, role players who do their part. I'm not giving up on Shump nor would I deal him for a rental or bench player. I only say we need to trade him because he is the only tradeable asset we have, and I think we should move while his value is highest. We are all-in to win now. I know we aren't close to good enough to compete with the elite.... But we have to try. Our only hope is to procur a legit PG. We won't get a difference maker, but if I can get a PG to help and be part of our future... I would move Shump. I'm not sure I would deal him for KF tho. It was a mistake to pass on KF then, but it would be a mistake to swap the two now. Shump is the more complete player. KF doesn't do enough to help this team. If we get a PG, fire Woodson and beg Phil to coach... We have a slight chance at a miracle. You just cannot live with the offense we're getting from our PG-SG. It's literally bottom 10 combo in the NBa right now. No matter how good Melo is.... This is a guard league.
 

bigapple

Starter
debate whos better LIn or Felton has been answred again
LIN 30 mins 2 TO's 21 pts 7/16
Felton 40 mins 5 TO's 3/9 8pts

prigioni played just 7 mins

JR awful 4/16

dont understand why Woody is keeping Felton so much time and again no Udrih


No MELO no Barg this team is mess and disaster with no D .
 

skisloper

Starter
So without Melo, Knicks win this game?


Without Felton the Knicks win this game,,,,,,,,,,,,,We lose our center and yet our weakest spot is the PG.......PRIGS 7 minutes and Udrich 0 minutes..........Felton was so bad tonight and what does Woody due ?? He rewards him with more playing time and does not allow Prigs or Udrich to play...........I mean really how do you let that heppen....
START EITHER PRIGS OR UDRICH AND NOT WITH FELTON.........IT IS CLEAR THAT FELTON HAS MOMENTS BUT LETS USE HIM AS A BENCH PLAYER...NOTHING TO LOSE SO MAYBE WITH A TRUE PG RUNNING THE OFFENSE WE WILL GET SOMEWHERE.....and please do not say Prigs or Udrich have not played well....they like some others have no feel of Woody and have no idea night by night if they will play or not........woody has to say the next 3-4 games Prigs is the starting PG and JR is not allowed to bring up the ball.

and Play amare for 20 minutes and see what happens...this 10 minutes is a joke...why bother....

FELTON SUCKS
 

bigapple

Starter
Well maybe Woodson see in him parker like Pringles sees in Duhon Ray Allen every coach have own vision

but really Felton playing simply pathetic and thats why we are losing

Woody dont use rotations or just max 3 players MWP Prings TH


now Hawks Pistons and Pacers and i want Pacers 10-0 @MSG that game will be again @MSG n aired by ESPN
why i want 10-0 Pacers

theyre playing on Heat level and after Spurs its 2nd team that this season will contend for title.

ppl from ESPN like TIm Legler and others still will be keeping Heat side.
 
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