Shump to Raptors?

bigapple

Starter
so the story goes

ICYMI last night, what with the Knicks lighting yet another dumpster fire to heat Madison Square Garden against the Celtics yesterday, Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! broke news of a trade between the Toronto Raptors and the Sacramento Kings, wherein Toronto sent the overpriced Rudy Gay, along with two throw-in players, to Sacramento for Grevis Vazquez, Patrick Patterson, Chuck Hayes and John Salmons. (You might recall that earlier in the season, ESPN?s Marc Stein had reported that Sacramento was having internal discussions on whether or not to pursue Knicks? shooting guard Iman Shumpert.)
Rumor has it that point guard Kyle Lowry might be the next piece to be moved by Toronto General Manager Masai Uriji ? it?s been speculated that the Knicks could pursue Lowry, who would be an upgrade over the struggling Raymond Felton. The seven player Gay trade has obviously shifted the landscape, so it?s worth wondering how the move might affect the Knicks.
In acquiring Gay, Sacramento has likely divested itself of any valuable trade pieces going forward. Remember, in late November they acquired Derrick Williams from Minnesota in exchange for Luc Mbah a Moute. They?ll now build around a core of Gay, DeMarcus Cousins, Derrick Williams and Isaiah Thomas, but the cupboards are pretty barren after that. As to the Knicks, it?s hard to see anything left on the Kings? roster that the Knicks would want and would realistically be able to get, especially for Shumpert. Unless, of course, the Knicks take a hatchet to their foot and do something crazy ? like trade for Travis Outlaw ? you can count Sacramento out as a potential suitor for Shumpert.
Toronto, on the other hand, is now an intriguing team. They?ve got a lot of young talent and the always impressive Ujiri Factor. The ex-Denver general manager is a wizard at getting opposing franchises to do what he wants ? he?s twice tricked Dolan the Knicks into giving up unnecessary assets for players. Now, by dealing Gay, who most considered absolutely untradeable, Ujiri has rid himself of one of the NBA?s worst contracts. Logically, with Andrea Bargnani and Gay gone, Lowry sure seems likely to be the next Raptor domino to fall.
Lowry makes $6.2M this season, the final year of his contract. From the Knicks? standpoint, there aren?t a lot of trade combinations that would allow them to acquire him, and any deal would likely have to include Felton because the salaries must match and New York is over the cap. Trading J.R. Smith would work under the cap, but the Knicks probably don?t want to deal him and Ujiri isn?t going to lock himself into that kind of long-term contract. The problem with trading Felton, of course, is that most NBA executives won?t ignore the point guard?s tenure in Portland. After being traded to the Blazers by the Nuggets, Felton pouted and got fat(ter). He was lousy on the court and a pain in the ass off it. Ray has since made it very clear that he loves playing in New York City. Additionally, Felton is a very average NBA player. Then again, Ujiri is a wizard and he?d probably flip Felton somewhere else for far more than he?s worth.
If we assume that Toronto is willing to take on Felton in a trade, the Knicks have two other assets that may be intriguing tothe Raptors: Iman Shumpert and Tim Hardaway Jr. Felton and Shumpert for Lowry would salary wise, but Felton and Hardaway for Shumpert would require that an additional contract be included.
As has been reported elsewhere, Shumpert remains the most likely candidate for a trade and he probably has the most trade value of the three we?ve discussed. If the Knicks are still intent on trading him, it does seem like they have yet to find a deal they like. All indications are that the Knicks really like Tim Hardaway and want to develop him, which is all well and good, but the Knicks already have the 28-year-old version of Hardaway in Smith. The two guards are eerily similar players, and logic would dictate that Smith should be more expendable than Shumpert. But that?s logic. The Knicks don?t do logic.
It remains to be seen, however, whether or not Toronto would even have interest in these scenarios. Lowry is a good player and his expiring contract is desirable. He?ll have plenty of suitors around the league. Shumpert is a potentially valuable piece for the Knicks, mostly due to their lack of good wing defenders, but he?s hardly a blue chipper. His defense hasn?t been great this year and he?s yet to develop much of an offensive game outside of good spot-up shooting. For teams coveting youth and affordability, though, Iman remains an attractive piece.
If the Knicks still see themselves as contenders ? they aren?t ? then trading for Lowry makes sense. He?s an upgrade over any of their current point guards, especially on defense, and by swapping out Felton?s deal for an expiring, they?d improve their cap standing in each of the next three off-seasons, including the oh-so-important 2015 free agency period. That said, I truly believe that blowing up the current team and rebuilding for the future is the way for the Knicks to go. Lowry would be an upgrade, but he hardly makes them a contender. Trading Shumpert would be a mistake. New York needs to hoard young talent, not deal it away for short term fixes. Shumpert will be a useful player for a lot of years in this league, even if it isn?t with New York. You don?t deal young players with upside in exchange for a present-day band-aid. Actually, I should clarify; smart teams don?t do things like that.
The 5-14 Knicks haven?t proven themselves to be very smart, though.

take JR and Felton ASAP LOL
 

RunningJumper

Super Moderator
Oh yeah instead of starting Prigioni and having Udrih come off the bench, let's keep starting and finishing games with Felton and trade Shumpert.
 

Pricey

Rotation player
Raptors just waived DJ Augustin. He isnt the answer but rather watch him playing the point then Felton
 

Paul1355

All Star
I have always liked Lowry but I have seen him struggle against the Knicks and get outplayed, however Felton has proved to me that he is not a starting PG and LOwry is an upgrade but not a significant one. Lowry's per is 17 while Felton's is 11 so that is a big difference.

I would consider this trade....

And the salaries match...

3-team trade between Knicks, Raptors and Celtics

Knicks get: Gerald Wallace, Kris Humphries, Kyle Lowry and Jonas Valacuinus, and maybe 2nd round pick

Raptors get: Felton and Shumpert

Celtics get: Amare
 

metrocard

Legend
Raptors just waived DJ Augustin. He isnt the answer but rather watch him playing the point then Felton

His speed and passing skills can really help us out, even though he has leveled down from his rookie year. Always been a fan of DJ.


If Knicks trade Shumpert and don't get someone like Jonas in return, I don't think I can be a fan of this franchise anymore.
 

metrocard

Legend
I have always liked Lowry but I have seen him struggle against the Knicks and get outplayed, however Felton has proved to me that he is not a starting PG and LOwry is an upgrade but not a significant one. Lowry's per is 17 while Felton's is 11 so that is a big difference.

I would consider this trade....

And the salaries match...

3-team trade between Knicks, Raptors and Celtics

Knicks get: Gerald Wallace, Kris Humphries, Kyle Lowry and Jonas Valacuinus, and maybe 2nd round pick

Raptors get: Felton and Shumpert

Celtics get: Amare

Lowry is a better PG than Felton and Jonas is a better prospect than Shumpert...why would Raptors do that?

lol maybe 2nd round pick?

Do you realize Amare Stoudemire has -92 value as an NBA player, not even the Celtics would take him for free. Giving up Humphries and Wallace for Amare is suicide for Boston.

Humphries is Boston's highest contract this year and it expires in 2014. Amare expires in 2015....why would Boston give up capspace for trash??
 

New New York

Quiet Storm
Raptors just waived DJ Augustin. He isnt the answer but rather watch him playing the point then Felton

He's better than Beno...I like the proposition of adding him...see if we can dump Beno for a 2nd rounder like we did Ronnie Brewer and sign DJ

Felton/Pablo/DJ

Look Felton is our Starting PG for better or worst...I actually like Pablo off the bench because when Melo is off the floor then the ball moves and Pablo is the best facilitator plus his spark is needed

Now I'd honestly love it if we finished games with Pablo on the floor rather than Ray but Woody won't do that
 

New New York

Quiet Storm
Lowry is a better PG than Felton and Jonas is a better prospect than Shumpert...why would Raptors do that?

lol maybe 2nd round pick?

Do you realize Amare Stoudemire has -92 value as an NBA player, not even the Celtics would take him for free. Giving up Humphries and Wallace for Amare is suicide for Boston.

Humphries is Boston's highest contract this year and it expires in 2014. Amare expires in 2015....why would Boston give up capspace for trash??

take the Toronto deal out of the equation and lets just talk the Boston move


not that I would pull the trigger on this deal because having Wallace on the books in a critical cap year would be almost as bad as having Curry on the books in 2010

But Boston would do a deal that shed Humphries and Wallace even if it meant taking on Stat...not an opinion, for a fact! read below

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24246528/report-celtics-would-accept-trade-for-amare-stoudemire


Boston would not be looking for a savior in Stat its all about cap (which if this trade went down it would drop them down to 19 million dollars owed in 2015) this would be like us trading for Larry Hughes or Al Harrington in 2008.

Again not at all in favor of such a move, yet its not as far fetched as you are making it seem...and while Humphries has the highest valued contract this year Wallace is owed way more over the course of the next 3 and again they would rather pay that in one less year that stretching it out over 3 more to answer your question about why would Boston do it.
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
Oh yeah instead of starting Prigioni and having Udrih come off the bench, let's keep starting and finishing games with Felton and trade Shumpert.
RJ, dunno if you're aware of it, but Prigs turned 36 last May. He's now thirty freaking six years old, he ain't gonna ball for 30+ min. And Udrih? Are we serious here? In 12 out of 13 games he played for the Knicks he looked old, slow and had basically no idea what to do with the damn ball. He isn't even worth the vet min money he's making. Lowry IMO looks like a perfect solution considering our limited options, but I wouldn't trade Shump for him. Either way I find it hilarious how quickly folks forget how much certain players suck. Everyone says "play Udrih!" > after a while Woody plays Udrih > Udrih looks freaking terrible > "Cut Udrih!" says everyone > Udrih goes DNP > after another 3-4 games everyone says "play Udrih!"... as if he got 10 years younger overnight or something.
 

bigapple

Starter
I have always liked Lowry but I have seen him struggle against the Knicks and get outplayed, however Felton has proved to me that he is not a starting PG and LOwry is an upgrade but not a significant one. Lowry's per is 17 while Felton's is 11 so that is a big difference.

I would consider this trade....

And the salaries match...

3-team trade between Knicks, Raptors and Celtics

Knicks get: Gerald Wallace, Kris Humphries, Kyle Lowry and Jonas Valacuinus, and maybe 2nd round pick

Raptors get: Felton and Shumpert

Celtics get: Amare

1st contract Wallace and Humphries is till 2016 as i rememeber + i dont wana Kardashian in NY.
2nd i dont wana both of them in NY too

i just wana Felton and JR out from NY and Murry with Prigion will take their time.
 

skisloper

Starter
RJ, dunno if you're aware of it, but Prigs turned 36 last May. He's now thirty freaking six years old, he ain't gonna ball for 30+ min. And Udrih? Are we serious here? In 12 out of 13 games he played for the Knicks he looked old, slow and had basically no idea what to do with the damn ball. He isn't even worth the vet min money he's making. Lowry IMO looks like a perfect solution considering our limited options, but I wouldn't trade Shump for him. Either way I find it hilarious how quickly folks forget how much certain players suck. Everyone says "play Udrih!" > after a while Woody plays Udrih > Udrih looks freaking terrible > "Cut Udrih!" says everyone > Udrih goes DNP > after another 3-4 games everyone says "play Udrih!"... as if he got 10 years younger overnight or something.


Feltons best year was playing him and Stat......assuming no trades since we have zero to trade to make us any better,,,,,,,,U are right Prigs is no younger but for 22 minutes a games he would be fine....


Play Prigs with the first unit and play Felton with Stat and jr in the 2nd unit....
Woody should be running 2 teams as its clear one team is not getting it done...
whats the point of getting a so0so PG when melo and JR will continue to bring up the ball...
 

Paul1355

All Star
id trade shump for peanuts at this point...dude is terrible...he is a headcase and thinks he is better than he is. ****iness is a good thing....if u are good enough to back up the attitude.
 

metrocard

Legend
id trade shump for peanuts at this point...dude is terrible...he is a headcase and thinks he is better than he is. ****iness is a good thing....if u are good enough to back up the attitude.

How is Shumpert a headcase? Shumpert has been our best perimeter defender the last 2 seasons and he's only 23 years old.

Did you even know Shumpert has played 40% of his playing time at SF? not even his natural position. Shumpert has no PG on this team who can get him open looks except Pablo and they rarely share time on the floor together plus he's playing SF next to Melo where Melo and Bargnani along with Smith and Felton take the most shot attempts.

You're going to give up on a 23 year old two way prospect because he's not having a break out start to his 100th NBA game? You're being dumb Paul. Moves and thinking like that is what failed this franchise.

You have failed the Knicks.
 

skisloper

Starter
How is Shumpert a headcase? Shumpert has been our best perimeter defender the last 2 seasons and he's only 23 years old.

Did you even know Shumpert has played 40% of his playing time at SF? not even his natural position. Shumpert has no PG on this team who can get him open looks except Pablo and they rarely share time on the floor together plus he's playing SF next to Melo where Melo and Bargnani along with Smith and Felton take the most shot attempts.

You're going to give up on a 23 year old two way prospect because he's not having a break out start to his 100th NBA game? You're being dumb Paul. Moves and thinking like that is what failed this franchise.

You have failed the Knicks.


If you get rid of Melo and company then you need to keep Shump and Hardaway.....
If Melo resigns and the only way to get a top notch PG for Melo is trading Shump them im for it as we have no other asset...But a top notch like Rondo not Lowery
 

metrocard

Legend
If you get rid of Melo and company then you need to keep Shump and Hardaway.....
If Melo resigns and the only way to get a top notch PG for Melo is trading Shump them im for it as we have no other asset...But a top notch like Rondo not Lowery

I don't mind trading Shumpert for Rondo, but definitely not for Lowry.
 
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