Those stats mean nothing to me. First your representation of them is false, stating:
We can take it further, talking about how Melo's +/- on the season is 0.4. So even though Melo is getting the most minutes and the most offensive production on the team BY FAR the team is barely beating their opponents when he is on the floor. Are you gonna put that all on Melo's teammates?
Melo regularly takes terrible shots, is lazy about going to the basket, settles for jumpers way too much, makes bad decisions, argues with officials and gives up points in transition. In my eyes he's tied for worst play of the season with Bargs and JR's inexplicable 3pt shots when the Knicks had the final shot available, when he nonchalantly dribbled the ball up the court and hoisted a 1 on 3 deep shot off the dribble...
As usual it's the debate where fans of an individual argue with fans of the team, Team Melo aka Team Starbury who blindly follow one player regardless of his faults. I'm a fan of the Knicks, by proxy I like Melo and was impressed by his individual performance, I don't hate on him at all, and my criticisms are not for no reason. When I see Melo I see a great player who doesn't regularly play to his ability on both sides of the ball.
Is Melo a great player? Hell yeah. Is he the best player on this team? Obviously. Is he the best defender on this team? Arguable but there could be a case made for it. Does he play as well as he could night in night out? Nope. Is that all his fault? No it's not all on him but he could do a lot more.
That'll be my final word on the matter.
Those stats mean everything to you.
They shut down your entire argument of Melo not being a defensive player this season.
Our best defensive line ups include Melo.
Melo has guarded his man better than anyone on this roster.
Those stats prove that.
Melo >>>> Bargnani. The stats and game play show this. Not even worth throwing up for debate.
Smokes if you actually watched Knicks games, you would realize Bargnani has shut down centers like Dwight Howard. Bargnani just sucks at switching and defense the pick and roll. Man to man, Bargnani is a good post defender because of his length. These stats prove it and so does the game play.
You just want to call the stats meaningless because you're salty they disprove all the crap you're spewing. You've lost this one before it starter and shouldn't have wasted your time replying. Theres no way out of it and it's best if that post is your final word because you don't have anything else to give. No information, a weak logic and a lot weak points that are being thrown because you just want to oppose.
How are you going to mention "ON" +/- without mentioning "OFF" +/- ? You're a fool for doing that, for someone who plays fantasy basketball, you're not good when it comes to the real thing.
Knicks are under -17 +/- when Melo is off the court. That's by far the worst on the team and it's obvious Knicks depend on Carmelo for rebounding(1st), defense(1st), shooting(1st), getting to the free throw line(1st), assist(2nd) and scoring(1st). Your debate holds no weight, yet again.
"Melo takes regularly terrible shots" - you haven't provided any information that backs that up. Once again another empty paragraph from you. Regularly means on average. If Melo takes terrible shots on average, I want to see some information that backs that up. Don't compare Melo to Durant and LeBron either, this is about Melo; not them. Don't be weak. Man up and defend what you say.
You get weaker, you claim Melo is lazy at getting to the free throw line.
Melo is 8th in the NBA in Free Throw attempts.
He finished 7th last year.
Why are you confusing Melo for JR Smith? You're an idiot for doing that.
The only blind one here is YOU.
You've presented zero evidence for your argument. Zero information. Why would you enter a debate without sharing any knowledge? No one wants to read what you got to say when you do that. You're a lazy poster who doesn't research his work. You're only agenda here is to oppose and leave. You're too much of a coward to step up to the plate and back up what you say, while Melo proves every word you say wrong with his performances. Melo right now has 35 points 5 assist 4 rebounds and they got the win of the Lakers...you're silent right now until Melo has a bad game and then you will come out of your cave and speak. That's not a Knick fan. I can't call you a Knick fan if you only want to speak when Melo does bad. I'm here when Melo does bad or good. I was here when Melo was averaging 19 ppg on 39% shooting before Linsanity. I called Melo Glen Robinson and backed it up with information. Melo started to play good basketball and made me eat my words and now I back up Melo because he performs at prime level. You have to be a man and respect that, if you can't then you're a cowardly fellow.
Team Starbury always won debates because when it came down to it, P4P no one could step up to the plate and out debate a Starbury Marbury. MSGKnickz33, ABCD and the rest of the crew were on domination mode.
Why be mad at Melo because he does what he is supposed to do?
1.. He is the best pure scorer in the league.
2.. He has rebounded and defended well this season.
There are several reasons this team has been awful this year. They include: injuries, lack of chemistry, bad PG play from FELTON at both ends, ****ty coaching in my opinion awful team defenders who play 20 +minutes per, JR not playing as well as last season, Shump's stunted development offensively and regression defensively.
I get annoyed at times at the Melo ISO. But this is what he does, what he gets paid to do. You have to live with a certain amount of iso from him because he's that good. i do think it would be nice if Melo drove to the cup more as opposed to taking long contested twos. It would also be great if he could average at least 4 assists. Love em or hate em, Melo is what he is. He is a lot like Dirk. He needs the proper compliment of players around him to be successful. Is it his fault he doesn't have that at the moment? Absolutely not.
Melo owns some of the blame of course, but by and large I see that dude playing hard every night (dude averages 39 minutes per game and leads the team in rebounding at 9.1 per game).
At the very least we need a real PG, and it'd be nice to see a coaching change.
Last edited by ronoranina; Jan 26, 2014 at 20:44.
Ok metro, you want some information and research, let's go there.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Here's a little snippet from an ESPN article where Chris Broussard talks to league executives (I value these peoples opinions slightly higher than a deluded fan of one player who still thinks the ghost of abcd's 5th grade posting level is quality forum material).
Amusingly, this league executive compares Melo to Stephon Marbury, a comparison which anyone who wasn't a Marbury nuthugger would realize is actually NOT a compliment
Further to this they appear to share my opinion that he doesn't play like a leader (complaining about foul calls and not getting back in transition being one example of this) and that he doesn't play enough defense. Interesting.
In regard to bad shots, here's a snippet from the Knicks own coach Mike Woodson on Melo taking bad shots:
"They've got to try and take better shots sometimes," the coach said after Monday's practice. "Sometimes, some of those difficult shots that you’re accustomed to making that you’re not making, you got to figure out a way to get better shots." (On Melo and JR)
In my last post I provided a specific example of how Melo took one of the worst shots in league history as the final shot this season, but let's delve a little deeper. The clutch aspect of Melo that his supporters are so quick to jump on when praising his ability as a player. Melo is 1-15 on game tying/game winning shots as a Knick. His one shot that fell in that situation? A layup! Oh my goodness, so when Melo actually attacks the hoop and gets a close range shot in the clutch he scores but when he takes a turnaround fadeaway jumper over two defenders he doesn't?! What kind of sorcery is this? Could it be that Melo is so accustomed to taking bad shots that these habits are causing us to lose games sometimes? Surely not
Your assessment of Melo being a top player because you're comparing him to his teammates makes absolutely no dent in my arguments whatsoever. I already stated Melo is the best player on this team, repeatedly. That has nothing to do with how he measures up as a player in this league.
Being 8th in free throw attempts again is subjective, you present it without the supporting fact that he attempts THE MOST field goals per game in the NBA. Out of the 7 players ahead of him in free throw attempts, only two of them are even in the TOP 10 for field goals attempted. So when you see the stats from the correct perspective, you can see that Melo gets his free throws from taking more shots than anyone else, and when you combine that with his poor FG% compared to the rest of the list you can only ascertain that he doesn't attack the rim like the rest of these players do, hence settling for jump shots too often.
Stats obviously provide certain points to measure a player against, but stats can only record so much. Melo's success on defense relies on him playing one on one (just like Bargs), the only type of defensive play where you can actually measure the stats. Melo plays well defending players in the post, no question. I never stated anything otherwise. His deficiencies exist when trying and failing to chase players around screens, or in transition, where he actually has to put effort and exert energy into defending his man, or in help defense situations which stats do not measure in any way, shape or form. Again, this is not all Melo's fault. The Knicks dreadful defensive schemes don't put him in the best position to succeed in this regard, however I'm sure you won't even note this part of the post because your brain only allows you to read anything as an attack on your beloved Melo.
You are clutching at straws trying to tell me I only post here when Melo is playing bad... What? My post in this thread and the only criticisms I have posted about Melo in months came after his 62 point game...
If I am a "lazy poster" as you put it, it's because I honestly don't care that much. I like Melo, I like him on this team and I enjoy watching him play. I don't enjoy seeing him play so far below his potential by settling for jumpers so regularly, arguing with officials and playing below his ability on defense. I don't post often to debate you because at the end of the day it's a pointless exercise, everyone knows you are stubborn to a fault and I have grown up beyond the point of finding childish insults amusing, I prefer to debate people who are secure enough in their own opinion not to have to start spouting out personal attacks and recalling the former "glory" (lol) of a group of posters who somehow believed their "domination" of an internet forum (lol some more) was anything more than a group of children spamming mildly amusing internet pictures in an attempt to deflect from the fact that their debating skills were 1st grade level at best.
This is your reference when you have nothing to back what you're posting?
If I was you I would of just saved that article for last section of your post.
You look the L immediately by making your entire post based off that one article. Failage.
Chris B. is regarded by the NBA community is one of the most low tier reporters/journalist the league has to offer. If this guy or people like this guy share your opinion, you know where your mind at, and it's not at a very respectable place.
This is everything you need to know about Chris B.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Therefor, as I begin to read this post; everything will sound weak because your resources are weak. Bad start smokes.
"League executives talk ‘Melo, say he’s not the alpha dog on a title team"
- It's easy to say that when Knicks start the season with a terrible record. That could be said about any legit top 5-10 player. They called LeBron the same thing when he was on Cleveland. Those opinions and feelings aren't facts. You failed to dig up information. I'm asking for info, not feelings on Melo. The date of that article was Mid-November when Knicks had one of the worst starts in franchise history. If you know anything about journalism, it's a journalist's opportunity to get a massive following on articles when you blow a player up. You may fool some people smokes, but you're not fooling the smart people in this forum.
Yea, comparing Melo to Marbury...makes sense you know, because they're both in the same situation, play the same position and produce at the same level. That all makes sense smokes, good job man. You made that point without posting any information to back it up either, but I believe you man. Keep up the great work. Melo = Marbury, genius stuff.
They share your opinion, but guess what?
Melo played the best defense on the team.
He's the closest thing to a leader we've had all season long.
Everyone else hasn't shown up except Tim Hardaway Jr and Pablo Prigioni, our back up guards.
Just because someone shares your opinion doesn't make you right.
Get some confidence in yourself and stop being lazy.
You're letting others work speak up for you.
Do it yourself.
As for Melo's shot selection, this will shut down anything you have to present so prepare yourself.
This article will educate you and help you understand Carmelo Anthony's strengths. Melo's "bad shots" are the best option we have statistically. It will be that way until we get good players on this team to play with melo who can create open shots and get to the free throw line.
The only low % shots Melo takes that lowers his FG is those quick pull up jumpers. They're bad shots yes, should we nail him on the cross for it? No. Melo is an all around player who gives this team great basketball every night. He could improve in that area, but no player is perfect. Melo is good at making bad shots.Carmelo Anthony Specialty Moves
Within these general categories are a few go-to moves upon which Anthony sometimes relies - the most common of which is the right shoulder fadeaway:
This past season, he made 37 of 65 such shots (56.9%). Yes, the shot appearsterrible. But Anthony is an unbelievable player, so it's no surprise that one of the most difficult shots in the game actually produces quality results for him.
His other specialty moves are even more effective, though in much smaller samples.
Here's the quick spin baseline from the post:
One dribble baseline, quick spin middle:
Hesitation dribble + pull-up head fake, then drive. He often uses this move against slower big men.
He's doing this without a PG either, so imagine Melo playing with someone who can actually get him open.
Your whole 'bad shot taking' argument just died. You don't even know what a bad shot is. How is it a bad shot when one has over a 50% success rate in making it? You're horrible with stats right now.
Whoa whoa whoa
Did you just say
"Being 8th in free throw attempts again is subjective, you present it without the supporting fact that he attempts THE MOST field goals per game in the NBA."
Smokes, you took the L in the beginning of your post, but you were going to leave in not deadly embarrassment until you posted that. Here's another L slapped on your face.
Aldridge and Melo are tied for 1st PER Game. Aldridge has taken the most however.
Either way, Melo shoots more efficiently than Aldridge.
Melo has never lead the NBA in FGA anyway
He maybe attempts the ONE OF the most field goals (notice how I worded that, next time you post, reread the nonsense you write) in the NBA because of the structure on the team he plays on. If you were a Knick fan you would of brought that up. But you're debating this like a guy fueled to make Melo look sub-par which kills your argument. Melo is averaging 27 ppg, 85% FT, 41% 3pt and 45% FG...so him taking one of the most shots in the NBA is a good thing, especially considering the 2nd best scorer on this team is Andrea Bargnani who in reality isn't really an NBA player. Now if Melo was playing with guys who can actually score 17 ppg without being scrubs, his shot attempts wouldn't be that high in the first place.
Melo's defense is good, so that's settle. No one on this team plays pick and roll defense, so it's not worth mentioning.
If you watch Knicks games @ Smokes which looks like you don't, you'll understand why Melo argues with the refs. He's been getting no calls ever since he put on a Knicks jerseys. Most of the time he doesn't complain. But when he does, punks like you who don't watch the game will rip Melo for it. Melo is trying to stand up for himself against the league.
^ That wasn't called a foul today.
Did Melo complain to the ref? no.
Did you even mention that in the game thread or even notice it in live game play? Probably not, if you did you wouldn't be spitting out silly things. Your debate skills are inferior, they've been in the past but you're a shell of your former-self. You're in a bad position right because you've been proven wrong on nearly everything you stated and you're not mature or man enough to admit your faults. But you're here sitting on the computer not even knowing how to dribble a basketball demanding Melo to take better shots and stop complaining to referees. That is more comical than CoolClyde's obsessions with dickpics.
Last edited by metrocard; Jan 26, 2014 at 20:07.
Ahahaha, hilarious that you had to edit your post after completely failing to read mine and correct yourself.
I'm done with you, you embarrassed yourself and you know it. Have a good day
Many of sit here and agree Melo is a great player but has flaws .....All you just keep justifying the things Melo does wrong.....When people got on Lebron for not finishing or looking to take the finals shots in the Heat his first season LEBRON ACKNOWLEGED IT AND CHANGED IT.......Announcers and analysist have been saying this about Melo time and time again....its a Flaw he should change it.......why do you keep think arguing with the Ref's is justified....poor Melo did not get a call ????? thats the NBA ....
This guy ^
Stoudimire have been bigger holes on defense and offense together, bigger concerns and huge negatives on the team. The sooner we ship those guys out the better we become. Chandler hasn't been great either. Before you could talk about Melo's defense, you have to present those 5 guys first. They're the biggest weaknesses and the reason why we lost so many games.
If we replace Paul George with Melo, aren't the Pacers still contenders. Or if Melo was drafted by the Pistons, would Melo not be the best player on that team. Pistons would have won more rings.
Melo can argue with the refs if he wants when he makes plays like this:
Knicks as a team need to work on a lot components. Melo arguing with refs isn't even in the top 20 of those problems we're suffering from right now. Announcers and analysts haven't been saying "time and time again" you're exaggerating. It's something Melo does poorly, but not all the time and not time to time again especially he's the best chase down blocker we have this roster. You're overreacting for a point you don't have.
Last edited by metrocard; Jan 26, 2014 at 23:53.
Metro..........No Melo should not be arguing with the Ref's no matter what he does offensively. This is where you are just blinded by your Love for Melo.......Melo shooting out of a double team has to stop.
So many times its been said Melo needs to make his teammates better..........Be last back on defense and not swinging the ball when you are doubled is not a good move.
We clearly that Melo's agrees are easily correctable its just his mindset........
ON another note we need to get rid of Woodson. With a 90 seconds left the 2nd Lakers drop to a zone....Melo gets doubled team and realizes this passes cross court, ball swings around the perimieter and back into Melo's hands for an open 3 pointer.....Thats as sweet as it gets......Next time down the court Woody calls time-out with a minute left....WTF ?????
Melo's 62 point drop seems to have put a little love between his teammates and lets hope we continue Tuesday.....
When I make a post about a player who use to play for the Washington Wizards it's gonna be EPIC. "Team Melo" is gonna be LIVID!!!
Forget all that.
Melo should speak up for himself when the time is right.
If Refs aren't doing their job, someone should let them know.
I don't think Melo should do it all the time, but it's inhuman to have someone be cool with the BS that goes on with the refs.
You seem more like a fan of the refs than Melo, trust me. Melo not complaining to the refs isn't going to help us drastically. We're going to be ignored on calls that should be on our favor.
Melo doesn't need to make no one better, we need to acquire better teammates. You're stupid if you think anyone in the league can make this roster look good. Look who he's passing to. The only real offensive minded player on the team is JR Smith, and you can't get assists passing to him. He's so dumb that if Melo passed him the ball under the basket with no one around him, he'd probably dribble it twice for no reason and thereby negating Melo's assist... or he'd miss twice intentionally to pad his rebounding totals. I guess he could pass to Hardaway... he's not bad. If he passed to Felton, Felton would just pass it right back. Point is, no matter how good or bad a passer he is, he just doesn't have the team around him to warrant a lot of passing. Melo's job isn't to be Steve Nash or Jason Kidd. When we get a PG who can do these things, Melo will still contribute. Melo ALWAYS passes out of double teams, he does what he needs to do as 27 godlike scorer. Melo averages 2.3 turnovers a game while averaging 27 points, that's very efficient scorer. He doesn't get a lot of assists, because his main three shooters (Felton, Smith and Shumpert) are all shooting 33% this season. But you want to blame Melo for that? You're dumb. Melo is actually a strong passer as well so what if it isn't a "highlight" no look pass.. a pass is a pass. He also gets a lot of "hockey assists." And lastly, his rebound numbers and turnover numbers are very good... not to mention when you are the best guy on the team bar none, you will be the receiver of the assist, not the person passing for the assist most of the time. You have a flawed way of thinking these things out.
I have no love for Melo, I ripped him better than anyone did on this site and I'm providing him support when he does well. I'm a Knicks fan first.
You seem to be more of a fan of the refs or anything that isn't related to Knicks success.